Hows Shield Tech damage in PvP?

[chillshock]

Hi guys,

I recently dug up my good old PT. Used to be pyro for... hm... always. But now that everyone and their mother is doing it plus me loving CHAAAARGE moves... I was thinking about actually going tank. I only PvP.

What I don't want to end up with is a walking 'prolonged death' (see if help arrives).

 

So the question basically is asked in the title: Does the Shield Techs damage come even close to anything 'dangerous'? Or is that more like a Classic-WoW-Tank-Paladin? (meaning: 3-shotting level 0 critters).

 

*editing the title*

I need to warn all who even dare to think that Tanking is even remotely related to something else but boring your enemies.

Edited September 8, 2014 by chillshock
Need to warn the others.

[Jayshames]

Well.. it doesn't really have any burst. I've also honestly not played a geared PT tank at 55 yet, but I have seen some pretty high damage numbers from tanks. (not that damage really matters, but they must be puling damage from somewhere)

[Easpeak]

Calling it "dangerous" would be too generous, a "nuisance" would suit it better, you'll be able to do enough damage to make whoever is attacking your healer retreat, but you won't be able to kill any half decent healers.

 

With high endurance + power mods armor in a decent WZ (meaning the teams are not lopsided) I'll do 500k damage and 300k protection ~ 600-700 dps I'm guessing.

 

Side note: as a pyrotech I'd average 1000-1500 dps and with a lot more spike damage.

[Ottoattack]

Hi guys,

I recently dug up my good old PT. Used to be pyro for... hm... always. But now that everyone and their mother is doing it plus me loving CHAAAARGE moves... I was thinking about actually going tank. I only PvP.

What I don't want to end up with is a walking 'prolonged death' (see if help arrives).

 

So the question basically is asked in the title: Does the Shield Techs damage come even close to anything 'dangerous'? Or is that more like a Classic-WoW-Tank-Paladin? (meaning: 3-shotting level 0 critters).

 

None of the thee tanks come "even close to anything dangerous." If that is what you are primary looking for you will be disappointed. In terms of tank damage, PTs are middle of the pack; they do more damage than juggs, but less than sins.

[Zoom_VI]

None of the thee tanks come "even close to anything dangerous." If that is what you are primary looking for you will be disappointed. In terms of tank damage, PTs are middle of the pack; they do more damage than juggs, but less than sins.

 

Depends, single target, jugs are better than shieldtech, they have better single target burst and overall damage. Powertech has significantly better AoE then juggs which is what lead to the misnomer about Shieldtech having better damage, since it has a lot of AoE fluff that boosts its scoreboard damage.

[chillshock]

Yeah... shield tech is a bit like rage mara without the big numbers. xD Seems great for pve. Slow but you do feel very tanky. I'm way more at home with the Pyro: I like the constant movement, working the range, timing a few things to get max burst effect.

 

Too bad that respeccing is such a pain (clicking all those skills, putting them on the bars, equipping all the gear) - I'd actually tank pve if I could just have a dual-spec-n-gear setup where switching is an easy 10 second cast....

[chillshock]

So: Just in case I would take a pvp break...

To tank PvE (no ops, just FP with hopes for the stronghold stuff to motivate me):

• This spec?
  
• Gear - the stuff from the oricon quest for PT tank for starters.
  
• Augments - (see stats)
  
• Stats - Hit chance to 104%; Shield:Defense:Absorb @ roughly 2:2:1 ratio
  
• Color Crystals - Endurance
  
• Prio - Basically obvious with a quite common rapid-shot to keep heat low.
  
• Relics - Can I use some PvP ones? Or do I have to waste creds?
  

The rest I gotta learn on the go - going to run a few of the story modes solo to take a look at how things go. I plan not to spend more than 1 - 1.5 Mill on this experiment. Unless it rekindles my passion for tanking I used to have. With swtor putting me off due to the first experiences when queueing as a tank... (yeah, I'm looking at you black talon with no ae skill, no ae taunt, no tank stance....)

[HBCentaurion]

So: Just in case I would take a pvp break...

To tank PvE (no ops, just FP with hopes for the stronghold stuff to motivate me):

• This spec?
  
• Gear - the stuff from the oricon quest for PT tank for starters.
  
• Augments - (see stats)
  
• Stats - Hit chance to 104%; Shield:Defense:Absorb @ roughly 2:2:1 ratio
  
• Color Crystals - Endurance
  
• Prio - Basically obvious with a quite common rapid-shot to keep heat low.
  
• Relics - Can I use some PvP ones? Or do I have to waste creds?
  

The rest I gotta learn on the go - going to run a few of the story modes solo to take a look at how things go. I plan not to spend more than 1 - 1.5 Mill on this experiment. Unless it rekindles my passion for tanking I used to have. With swtor putting me off due to the first experiences when queueing as a tank... (yeah, I'm looking at you black talon with no ae skill, no ae taunt, no tank stance....)

 

 

There are some different PVE tanking specs. I'll list a few:

1) http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdoroMdRRZbcMzZb.3 (the one I run with)

2) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#121221021022102122320232-20320-300

3) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#121221021022102122320232-2000320-300

 

In general, don't take Prototype Cylinders since it's useless for PT tanks. I like (1) because of the reduced CD on flamethrower in addition to the extra fire damage since I spam Flame Burst as a filler. The other specs take 3 points in the endurance talent. I've never had need for it, and I like to put out as much dps as possible.

 

A basic priority list is:

Heat Blast

Rocket Punch

Rail Shot

Flamethrower (top priority when it procs)

Flame Burst

Shoulder Cannon

Flame Sweep

Jet Charge

Rapid Shots

Death From Above

Unload

Explosive Dart

 

Brutalizer relic of Fortunate Redoubt + Reactive Warding (Brutalizer Reactive Warding is better then Dread Forged Reactive Warding) is good enough for DF / DP HM.

[chillshock]

Wow - thanks for that detailed post. Greatly apreciate it.

 

Going PT Tank feels very right for PvE so far (still just DPS gear) but I seriously dislike it in PvP. So... I guess I'll need to optimize my respeccing and reconfiguring my toolbars until I can safely complete that in under 50 seconds (pop -> 10 seconds to finish the fight -> respec -> enter warzone -> change gear). ^^ Stinks a bit, but hey, who doesn't enjoy a challenge?

[Ryuku-sama]

Wow - thanks for that detailed post. Greatly apreciate it.

 

Going PT Tank feels very right for PvE so far (still just DPS gear) but I seriously dislike it in PvP. So... I guess I'll need to optimize my respeccing and reconfiguring my toolbars until I can safely complete that in under 50 seconds (pop -> 10 seconds to finish the fight -> respec -> enter warzone -> change gear). ^^ Stinks a bit, but hey, who doesn't enjoy a challenge?

 

PvP gear is good enough for about every single daily.... You don't need to be in PvE gear for that.... PvP spec is better than PvE spec outside fp, ops since most thrash is vulnerable to physics.. which is what change from a PvP spec to a PvE spec.... And you need more survivability in solo play than group play, which a PvP specs tend to give more often than a PvE spec.

 

I normally use this spec for solo content and PvP with a high endu gear (Brute with endu augments, high endu armoring, endu crystals, endu heavy mod, endu heavy enhancement). For group play I switch to PvE gear but normally keep my spec until I know I will need more to bring more DPS to the table.

That way I don't need to switch spec while going into wzs, or even switch gear. In fact, if you happen to be on a PvP server.... You're better being geared for PvP in case of OWPVP.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[chillshock]

I don't think I want to pvp as a tank. I feel stupid if I can only prolong death instead of dealing it. Especially with the low damage numbers that are so common in random queue these days.

[TACeMossie]

None of the thee tanks come "even close to anything dangerous." If that is what you are primary looking for you will be disappointed. In terms of tank damage, PTs are middle of the pack; they do more damage than juggs, but less than sins.

 

This would be the case if it weren't for BiS for survivability stats for a jugg tank in PvP being full power/surge

 

So: Just in case I would take a pvp break...

To tank PvE (no ops, just FP with hopes for the stronghold stuff to motivate me):

• This spec?
  
• Gear - the stuff from the oricon quest for PT tank for starters.
  
• Augments - (see stats)
  
• Stats - Hit chance to 104%; Shield:Defense:Absorb @ roughly 2:2:1 ratio
  
• Color Crystals - Endurance
  
• Prio - Basically obvious with a quite common rapid-shot to keep heat low.
  
• Relics - Can I use some PvP ones? Or do I have to waste creds?
  

The rest I gotta learn on the go - going to run a few of the story modes solo to take a look at how things go. I plan not to spend more than 1 - 1.5 Mill on this experiment. Unless it rekindles my passion for tanking I used to have. With swtor putting me off due to the first experiences when queueing as a tank... (yeah, I'm looking at you black talon with no ae skill, no ae taunt, no tank stance....)

 

For PvP, shield/defense/absorb are useless. For PvE, it changes on a per-boss basis. However if you are looking at 156s with no set bonus and doing HM FPs, I'd suggest a 100% defense bias (as in Immunity Enhancements and Deflecting Mods)

For PvP situations, drop all defense, put a little in shield/absorb, and stack HP

 

In addition, the choice between endurance and Aim/Power is simple: Do you want more heals from self heals (as in being hit by AoEs, using shoulder cannon, or the after-effect of kolto overload), or do you want to do more damage and generate more threat?

 

Oh and if you decide to augment for PvE, get about 290 absorb, and then the rest of that possible stat into defense.

Edited September 4, 2014 by TACeMossie

[chillshock]

Hm, well I'm not going to do any hardmode FP without knowing what I'm doing. I owe that much to my team.

 

So I'll probably start of easy - the way I used to gear my tanks in any other game as well: Get the basic gear -> get the muscle memory by and basic knowledge of the instances -> if I like it get more/better/expensive gear. I thoroughly dislike the tanks that think because they got the gear they really are tanks... and are clueless and quite often totally arrogant. Hence me tanking whenever PvE is concerned. I like to teach newbs. I am one at some point myself. Usually not this far into a game, but then again: PvP is great fun. AAAAND I hadn't played a class that fits Tanking mood like the PT. I'm beginning to fall in love with him...

Edited September 4, 2014 by chillshock

[Kooziejr]

I don't think I want to pvp as a tank. I feel stupid if I can only prolong death instead of dealing it. Especially with the low damage numbers that are so common in random queue these days.

 

Tank to tank. DPS to DPS. This is the best advice I can give you. How is lethality operative healing? How is pyrotech tanking etc. do not make any more sense than wanting to do proper damage as a tank ------ makes it op as hell if it was possible. Just play the role unless you are some kind of next level player.

[chillshock]

Well - my report: DPS as a tank SUCKS. Reminds me a lot of the way tanks in wow were in classic. No wonder so few put up with staying tank. Low dps means: slow dailies. The one thing you do not want to be slow in.

 

Big plus: I can solo them all. Except for watching interrupts and using the odd defensive cooldown every now and then... no sweat.

 

But ... do you all know how that paladin tank wanted to brag and mentioned how he only needed 2 crits to kill a squirrel? yeah. that.

 

You take a beating like nothing... but the damage is absolutely horrible. (that answers my question from the OP).

 

Still - feels cool. I love jet-charge.

[chillshock]

*venting frustration*

 

I revert my "still cool" part.

 

It just sucks to spend 2:14(!) minutes on level 50 heroic masters that you waste within 28(!) seconds on an equally geared DD. (pvp gear that is). I timed it: PT (worst @ 2:14 min), Vengeance Jugg ( 37 seconds), Anni Mara (37 seconds), Rage mara (same gear - 28 seconds). Same mob.

 

That's not even remotely anything anyone could call 'damage' now, is it? We aren't talking about 20% less here. It's not even HALF of the WORST of the others. WOW. So, having asked about ST:PT damage before: IT's non-existant. That's it. There is no damage. Admitted: no level 55 heroic daily was able to kill me, but then again... I could have taken my mara, my vengeance, my op AND my scoundrel through all non-heroic dalies. I mean: WHAT THE F?

 

Next time someone asks about damage of the ST:PT just say "It doesn't really do damage".

 

Man I'm frustrated with my PT now. I've never ever felt that STUCK. I'd have to grind the 'right' pvp gear now. And not even able to do dailies in a satisfying way.... Right now it feels better to play a rage mara in pvp than my PT. SH*T SH*T SH*T.

 

Ok. So... in another thread I already asked:

Do I just stash the tank gear? Sell it? Get me some pve gear and be the ungeared noob at 55 and use bolster?

 

Say: Can I purchase BH gear with my comms stacked alts and send it via legacy?

[Zoom_VI]

Well - my report: DPS as a tank SUCKS. Reminds me a lot of the way tanks in wow were in classic. No wonder so few put up with staying tank. Low dps means: slow dailies. The one thing you do not want to be slow in.

 

Wat?

[chillshock]

Now imagine what you would have done in that very same battle as an equally geared pyro... my god, the poor forums...

[Zoom_VI]

Now imagine what you would have done in that very same battle as an equally geared pyro... my god, the poor forums...

 

Really? Can you really not comprehend that there is a deference in function between a tank tree and a DPS tree? Having a tank tree that could deal damage like a DPS would be obscenely unbalanced.

 

If all you care about is damage numbers, then the respec guy is that way -->

 

Sheildtech can pull good damage numbers for a tank class, no it cannot pull the damage number of the DPS classes, nor should it.

[chillshock]

Really? Can you really not comprehend that there is a deference in function between a tank tree and a DPS tree?

I get the concept. Not like I don't play games for a couple of years... like 12 or so...

 

Having a tank tree that could deal damage like a DPS would be obscenely unbalanced.

Agreed. To an extend. If the difference is no larger than the difference in TTK: ok. If TTK increases less: not ok. If the TTK increases more: Not too bad, unless DPS starts whining because killing tanks takes too long.

Right now - in my estimates I'd say a ST:PT is about 100% more difficult to kill than a PY:PT - all the while he does at most 30% of the damage. Meaning: Everything outside of tanking is a total pain in the ar*e to do. And that means all those times you wait for a queue to pop.

 

If all you care about is damage numbers, then the respec guy is that way -->

This is probably an understandable misinterpretation. Caring about the damage is totally not the same as "only caring about the numbers". But yes, I respecced.

 

Sheildtech can pull good damage numbers

No.*

 

for a tank class, no it cannot pull the damage number of the DPS classes, nor should it.

That might be. But *

 

And while I don't think that Tanks should reap the same damage-numbers as a dps: Anything above a 20% drop to them is ridiculous. Unless you spend your queue time standing in the fleet. And if you don't think 20% less damage is relevant: Ask any DPS class how viable they think their class would be at 20% less damage.

[Ryuku-sama]

To hold aggro tank must do less than 1/3rd the DPS of a DPS.. or tank job would be to go AFK after 12 sec.

[chillshock]

To hold aggro tank must do less than 1/3rd the DPS of a DPS.. or tank job would be to go AFK after 12 sec.

Easily tweaked through adjustment of the threat coefficient.

[Ryuku-sama]

Easily tweaked through adjustment of the threat coefficient.

 

And then **** PvP over. A good tank with a healer can live for age against 4-5 DPS hitting him....

[Aetideus]

For ranked:

Top endurance mods rest mitigation, fortitude augs.

 

For regs:

Top power mods rest critical and surge. Some Power/Shield enh. Aim augs. Got 900 dps and proper protection.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Aetideus