Dear Devs, REALLY? ***?!?! LEAVE THE MARAS ALONE!

[Phuchs]

the only thing you should be touching on carnage is where the health is taken after using Undying Rage.

If carnage's Rng/high complexity is taken out you loose a subscriber.

if you take away from us, we are useless, you give us anything else we will be OP.

All these people who are complaining L2P!! carnage DROPS people in PVP, and is VERY good in in PVE, and it is the only spec that doesn't have a set rotation (dps).

As for rage? all i ask is that the secondary targets get the crit chance and surge applied. not decimate or any other tree abilities...

This is ALL i ask, anyone else agree?

And not to mention, this is THE ONLY spec like this in the game. So what if you put out all these numbers if tou are just a mindless turret?

i turret heal on a sorc, probably will on my op if i ever stay with this game...

Edited August 22, 2014 by Phuchs

[DarthMurdek]

Although i dislike the slaughter proc change i do not mind the execute proc change. and keep in mind you can circumvent the changes completely by not maxing out the proc chance.

[Maudril]

Not anymore, Gore has a flat cooldown now, no resets.

[HaemmernZeit]

If carnage's Rng/high complexity is taken out you loose a subscriber.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out! Complexity? You mean hitting massacre until you get your procs? No spec in this game is difficult or complex.

All these people who are complaining L2P!! carnage DROPS people in PVP, and is VERY good in in PVE, and it is the only spec that doesn't have a set rotation (dps).

True, but spamming massacre 6+ times without a proc is a problem. It's the only spec with such terrible rng. No proc in pvp means you aren't killing anyone. In pve, there goes 2-300 dps. And the only spec without a set rotation? Not quite.

And not to mention, this is THE ONLY spec like this in the game.

Well, anything for you!

[Jayshames]

Although I have a 55 Sentinel and 47 Marauder, I haven't played them in a LONG time. So excuse the next question.

What is it that you're trying to proc by using Massacre? Is it the Execute trait?

 

Lethality Operative is pretty horrible RNG too.

Shiv has 60% chance to proc Fatality which gives you an extra Tactical Advantage stack. Shiv is on a 6s cooldown too. Can be extremely frustrating when you go 18~ seconds without a proc. Especially since those stacks are required in order to use pretty much your only decent damage ability in this spec.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Jayshames

[Bonzenaattori]

Although I have a 55 Sentinel and 47 Marauder, I haven't played them in a LONG time. So excuse the next question.

What is it that you're trying to proc by using Massacre? Is it the Execute trait?

 

Lethality Operative is pretty horrible RNG too.

Shiv has 60% chance to proc Fatality which gives you an extra Tactical Advantage stack. Shiv is on a 6s cooldown too. Can be extremely frustrating when you go 18~ seconds without a proc. Especially since those stacks are required in order to use pretty much your only decent damage ability in this spec.

 

Juyo form > Execute/Opportune Attack - Just saying

[alienization]

Bioware is killing off the RNG of proc based specs (for example madness), so it's only fair they do it with carnage too. It's a buff, why complain? It will still be just as fun to play imo, we just lose the guesswork.

[Audioquester]

Bioware is killing off the RNG of proc based specs (for example madness), so it's only fair they do it with carnage too. It's a buff, why complain? It will still be just as fun to play imo, we just lose the guesswork.

 

Just did the same thing for Annihilation. RNG used to decide if Annihilate and/or Vicious Slash finished the cooldown of rupture. It was actually a buff. It made bleeds tick for a lot more. Also somewhat irrelevant to the subject at hand, they also made the DOT non-cleansable.

[Maudril]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=659058

 

KBN can put it a lot better than I.

If I could dig up the whole Vengeance guide before they removed the RNG.

 

Carnage guide was a lot longer for a reason.

[babygotmoreback]

I have a few issues with the new carnage / combat changes. For starters, the gore proc being taking away is an issue. Number 1 reason is pvp. The damage from carnage is the most susceptible to stun in the game. Now with a set 4.5 second window with no proc afterward, we are going to be stunned through nearly every window for those who are smart to watch buffs and now the combat player will not have a back up for when the stun drops. If they are going to make this change, then carnage combat needs a way to protect our window a bit. For example, make precision apply a 2 second hard stun like low-slash does for shadows in the infiltration tree. Otherwise, we are in for a cc fest in our precision windows which will be incredibly frustrating. We aren't range and we can't pop in out of stealth to back stab and recycle our burst. We are dependent on that window. The proc helped us with that. I seriously hope the devs consider something like this from a pvp standpoint. Edited September 7, 2014 by babygotmoreback

[Pegjot]

Bioware is killing off the RNG of proc based specs (for example madness), so it's only fair they do it with carnage too. It's a buff, why complain? It will still be just as fun to play imo, we just lose the guesswork.

 

They've nerfed the gore window. You used to have two gore windows and then a building period. Now you're gonna have only one gore window and then a slightly shorter building period. I haven't tested it but I'm struggling to see how knowing carnage is going to be an alternative to even smash at this point. I'm really disappointed because I don't play annihilation, only carnage and smash.

[DrMeth]

You are still getting two Gore windows in a 20 second time frame. Its just not 9 seconds of gore back to back like it used to be.

[undiess]

As for rage? all i ask is that the secondary targets get the crit chance and surge applied. not decimate or any other tree abilities...

Are you really asking for the overpowered AOE back?

[Maudril]

Are you really asking for the overpowered AOE back?

 

That is not what he is asking for.

Right now, the only target that apparently can get a crit at all is the primary target. He claimed in person that the secondary targets *cannot* be critted at all. As in, there is a chance that all of your hits can be a crit, what he is saying that in a WZ Smash's crit chance against secondary targets is literally 0.

He is saying remove Decimate from secondary targets and allow Smash to apply crits to secondary targets(NOT auto-crit).

 

I have a few issues with the new carnage / combat changes. For starters, the gore proc being taking away is an issue. Number 1 reason is pvp. The damage from carnage is the most susceptible to stun in the game. Now with a set 4.5 second window with no proc afterward, we are going to be stunned through nearly every window for those who are smart to watch buffs and now the combat player will not have a back up for when the stun drops ... We aren't range and we can't pop in out of stealth to back stab and recycle our burst. We are dependent on that window. The proc helped us with that. I seriously hope the devs consider something like this from a pvp standpoint.

 

Literally no one thought of that when the changes were being discussed on the PTS forum, holy crap!

So if I start playing Carnage and get used to when it feels right to use Gore... not only can I stun them and mess up their gore windows *Consistently* but now I can even anticipate the Gore+ForceScream combo! For my jug, that puts me at a *clear* advanatage over Carnage marauders. I used to avoid good Carnage players, as they were able to laugh at my ED (lol). But now with the static rotation the PVP crowd wanted (Yes, Raansu and JediMasterSLC were the changes *biggest* advocates) I can now defeat Carnage marauders on my Juggernaut even more easily than the Rage marauders.

 

As much as it sucks from a PVP perspective (I don't know why I didn't think of the counterplay options made available by the static rotation) the changes were actually most eagerly anticipated by apparently the high end PVP crowd. KBN was opposed to the changes, as was I, but we mostly cited the "boring" aspect of the changes. KBN also mentioned that in terms of sustained damage Carnage is actually now inferior to Rage in both burst and sustained(Carnage used to surpass Rage in burst, and fall behind in sustained). There was not much room for feeback, sadly.

 

 

The way the changes worked was something along these lines:

 

First changes were as follows.

Execute - 100% chance to proc

Slaughter - 100% chance to proc

 

We mentioned that this would increase the frequency of getting Slaugther before we can use Gore properly. Their solution was to remove Gore reset from slaughter proc, then patchtime. We did not get much room for feedback, once they changed the rotation the changes became final.

 

EDIT: I am replying for the OP, his sub ran out a couple of days ago.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Maudril

[Sarafain]

Literally no one thought of that when the changes were being discussed on the PTS forum, holy crap!

So if I start playing Carnage and get used to when it feels right to use Gore... not only can I stun them and mess up their gore windows *Consistently* but now I can even anticipate the Gore+ForceScream combo!

 

You didn't stun them or anticipate the Gore windows already? How has changing when the occur make them any less predictable? The only change is that you cannot miss a Gore/PS window.

[Maudril]

You didn't stun them or anticipate the Gore windows already? How has changing when the occur make them any less predictable? The only change is that you cannot miss a Gore/PS window.

 

The change is that I know exactly when it is coming. As the user, I do not have to pay as close attention to my procs, resources and such that were in some cases out of my control to an extent.

Now that carnage has been streamlined to have a static rotation, what they are going to do and when is SO much more predictable now.

 

You know your next gore window is gonna be in 10.5 seconds? Congrats, so do I, and I will have a stun ready for it.

Making the rotation consistent makes the rotation predictable, and makes counterplay a lot easier. Before, that Gore+ForceScream could come almost at any moment. Now I know it will come basically as soon as the marauder has the resources in its opener, my saber reflect will be ready.

After that Gore+FS that I reflected back at the marauder, the next gore will be in about 7 GCD's, give or take one or two. I will be watching.

 

The point is that this "buff" made counterplay against carnage easier. As soon as the ranked community finds out about this, I believe we will find that Raansu and JediMasterSLC are not as fond with Carnage in its 2.10 iteration as they thought.

[steoop]

New Carnage is crazy. Reminds me of the old carnage but very powerful. Global in PVP is nuts....that is all.

[Sarafain]

The change is that I know exactly when it is coming. As the user, I do not have to pay as close attention to my procs, resources and such that were in some cases out of my control to an extent.

Now that carnage has been streamlined to have a static rotation, what they are going to do and when is SO much more predictable now.

 

The only thing that wasn't perdictable was whether or not they'd get there 2nd gore window, even if they did get a 2nd gore window you knew when to expect it. I dont' see how switching from 15secs then + 5-6 is different/easier to track then a static 10.5. The opposite point is the change makes it less predictable as Carnage/Combat now can hold off using Gore/PS because they don't have to worry about missing a window.

 

I haven't gotten the feel for the change yet, and i miss the ridiculous opening burst but I'm much happier without the RNG

[Raansu]

the only thing you should be touching on carnage is where the health is taken after using Undying Rage.

If carnage's Rng/high complexity is taken out you loose a subscriber.

if you take away from us, we are useless, you give us anything else we will be OP.

All these people who are complaining L2P!! carnage DROPS people in PVP, and is VERY good in in PVE, and it is the only spec that doesn't have a set rotation (dps).

As for rage? all i ask is that the secondary targets get the crit chance and surge applied. not decimate or any other tree abilities...

This is ALL i ask, anyone else agree?

And not to mention, this is THE ONLY spec like this in the game. So what if you put out all these numbers if tou are just a mindless turret?

i turret heal on a sorc, probably will on my op if i ever stay with this game...

 

Carnage is back to the way it was pre 2.0, the way it should have always been. The redesign in 2.0 should have never happened. The spec is way better now and I no longer have a headache pvping with a spec that I loved pre 2.0 and wanted to love in 2.0 but couldn't stand the low proc rates.

 

So uh, bye!

[Maudril]

Carnage is back to the way it was pre 2.0, the way it should have always been. The redesign in 2.0 should have never happened. The spec is way better now and I no longer have a headache pvping with a spec that I loved pre 2.0 and wanted to love in 2.0 but couldn't stand the low proc rates.

 

So uh, bye!

 

Do tell me how the counterplay works out, I am actually interested.

Its by all means easier, and one of the biggest complaints behind carnage already. I imagine you will get countered more often in ranked, more people know the spec.

 

New Carnage is crazy. Reminds me of the old carnage but very powerful. Global in PVP is nuts....that is all.

 

...

You could not do that before?

Edited September 10, 2014 by Maudril

[Raansu]

Do tell me how the counterplay works out, I am actually interested.

Its by all means easier, and one of the biggest complaints behind carnage already. I imagine you will get countered more often in ranked, more people know the spec.

 

 

 

...

You could not do that before?

 

Sounds like you're just bad.

[Nomaad]

Feel free to answer the man's question. I too am interested in your response.

[Raansu]

Feel free to answer the man's question. I too am interested in your response.

 

There's nothing to answer. No one gets CC'd all the time, and smart players know when to use a gore window. The only people that have a problem with it are solo queue players and pve players. They only want rng and double gore (which is highly overrated btw) for pve for the sake of the spec to be "complicated" even though rng is not complicated at all, just annoying and inconsistent.

 

I'll take a consistent 6s between each gore over a "chance" of getting double gore and then sitting with an 11s down time for the next gore window. Not too mention the 10.5s gore lines up perfectly with scream every single time. Carnage now is immensely better than pre 2.10 and pretty much every single good carnage player will tell you the same thing. Its more consistent in both pve and pvp. To say otherwise is ignorant.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Raansu

[Nomaad]

Thank you for your quick response, I appreciate it.

[Imbik]

I was wondering when maras go crying again.