Operative PVP : disappointment

[ggardner]

This is probably the smallest issue you will face in PvP. Wait till level 40 with Acid Blade that is when you will see the full potential of the class. TBH the only gripes us operatives could really have are the uselessness of the "Escape" ability and CC on us in general.

[smoothmoovs]

44 op here. I felt the same way you did until 36 and got hidden strike. A talented hidden strike is exactly what you want. Its too bad you quit 6 levels before this class really shines.

[fest]

I've had 0 issues with getting behind people. Rank 30 pvp by the time I was 50. You probably just lag or suck.

 

I'm going to agree with this, as soon as I turned 10 and got my advanced class, I queued up. It was Voidstar. I ended with up with 202k damage done and 7 medals. At level 10.

 

The animations are fine. If you are behind and the target and in melee when you press Backstab, then it will connect, every time, no matter if they move out of the animation in time. If you are experiencing otherwise, then it's something on your end. Deal with it.

[Nague]

you are atupid, the animations take a while, but the server calculations for dmg happen as soon as you hit the button.

 

This is reversed placebo effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you dont believe me?

remember all the times you are in a group and the mob was about to die, but had a sliver of HP but you couldnt attack him anymore and then some long animation from someone else finishes and the mob is dead? yeah.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Nague

[Raikao]

you are atupid, the animations take a while, but the server calculations for dmg happen as soon as you hit the button.

 

This is reversed placebo effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you dont believe me?

remember all the times you are in a group and the mob was about to die, but had a sliver of HP but you couldnt attack him anymore and then some long animation from someone else finishes and the mob is dead? yeah.

 

pretty much what he says. The damage IS instant. Not being able to execute backstab is mostly due to lag, which is annoying.

 

Other than that. I stuck with it, farmed my badges, got the full level 40 pvp gear (except implants and ear, working on that), specced concealment again and yeah. I win against EVERY other class. I destroy people so much it's ridiculous. Granted I have pretty nice gear, but I'm just not seeing the class as doomed as you make it out to be.

 

Don't expect to insta kill people from stealth though, you take about 50% off before they get up, and then you have to play your cards right. Using the right cooldownds etc. So far I'm killing every other class. I especially like to get behind snipers/healers etc in warzones. Taking those out cripples the enemy so hard

[Crawler]

exactly the feeling im getting. im delayed due to side talents so dont have acid blade yet - but hidden strike and then the later stun talents give a kick. When i got lv 40 equiped whole 40 lv set (rank 30 valor at lv 38 or so..) and now like every ability would do +25% damage. Cant wait for AB .

 

As for issues i do have problem with unreasonable lag... i land hidden strike target is flat on ground and i cant hit him even with shiv - then 4 s later he is 5m away. Had evern worse case - land hidden then backstab then shiv and trying lecarate out fo range Oo he is clearly just geting up but i cant hit him - second later its 10m away...

andi jsut dotn knwo what it is - latency is fine must be either target or server problem :S

[Bazeleel]

Thank you I am not going crazy then. I still have no idea why that your knife is show in-place of your rifle....its stupid.

[MyDominion]

If your frustrated a bit with the operative at sub 30, watch my first video I posted. I'm 31 as a scrapper scoundrel (mirror class with as many issues with animation lag, though I actually think operatives animations are sharper. Yes I play both classes)

 

I plan on doing a healing operative video in the near future if that interests anyone. But take a look at my vid of alderaan for sub 36 PvP I have some good tips in it. Also the voidstar has some good suggestions too, it might get you over the hurdle of the pre-36 times for both scoundrels and operatives.

 

I have a link in the scoundrel forums or you can google SWTORFeodor

[Jooji]

You can't really judge a class/spec before getting it's biggest talent, such as Acid Blade for a concealment operative. One thing I've noticed also is when you use hidden strike the person doesn't always fall the way you'd expect them to so you have to kinda run around them to get the backstab off.

[TheReflection]

It's funny how different people can have such a different opinion on a same subject

 

I absolutely love the animations for all the knife attacks 3<<3<3<3

 

I love how the knife sticks out of your enemy's chest when you shiv them.

 

I love the meaty and satisfying "slish" when you stab someone.

 

I love how you smack your target with your rifle-butt when collateral damage procs.

 

I love how every skill you use has a different animation (This is extremely useful in pvp. I know which of the different strikes I use just by looking at them.)

 

I love chasing Jedi while spamming overload shot.

 

I love taking on Jedi on equal terms in close combat!

 

I love being an operative!

[obi-joachim]

Operative is a totally balanced class at this stage in my eyes, i have had no problems with it i top heals in battlegrounds and also kills.. Now for 1v1 i really rare loose. And that you compare two different games and see differences and so wanting to 'fix' that is dumb. Anyhow i would suggest you to max out mostly everything in the healing tree and later on starting on one of the others, just simply because Operative isnt a burst class and you wont go far with 1v1 fights unless you delay them, use shield prob (level32) and heal. Your evade ability evasion does also wonders!

 

To be honest Operative seems to me one of the toughest advanced specialization you can choose out there.. You have to compensate, interrupt, use your ccs with caution (dont use it randomly use it to interrupt their spells), you have to sneak, heal and also compensate when you go melee range and when you go ranged to do your 'take cover' abilities.. It is all just a mess and im glad i choose a class which you need skill to use.

Edited December 26, 2011 by obi-joachim

[Kuzukaze]

Why they put Hidden strike so late in lvls... its so stupped. To get opener at 36 lvl only. And there is no stealth bar... it would be useful to save some place on hotbars.

Main disspointmet about operative is sleep dart, that puts FULL CC immune, compared to assasins "sap" cc that they can use twice.

And our damage? I hit ~2k crit with backstab when assasins hit ~3.5k, So the class is realy strange.

Then before acid blade, i must hit the poison dart, that have bad animation, i dont feel if it fires or not, UI is bad so i cant even see if i placed debuff on the target.

Exiting combat is a big problem, sometimes it takes ages, especialy if i used poison dart on someone, i can forget about leaving combat.

TA fade off too fast, i cant even runt to los, to get my fast heals, or even hit Stim boost after i escape zerg with dodge/cloaking screen.

Bug with cloaking screen not firing sometimes, when u have enemy in target is a big problem that must be fixed ASAP.

Stun from Laceriation not work in pvp... so why they even put such perk in talents? Is there any sense to use it after u get acid blade? 10 second cd damage proc that have 50% chance to go is a bad thing too imo.

 

And i wanted to ask a question: why Eviscerate not working in pvp? whats with this kind of abilities?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Kuzukaze

[Jooji]

Why they put Hidden strike so late in lvls... its so stupped. To get opener at 36 lvl only. And there is no stealth bar... it would be useful to save some place on hotbars.

Main disspointmet about operative is sleep dart, that puts FULL CC immune, compared to assasins "sap" cc that they can use twice.

And our damage? I hit ~2k crit with backstab when assasins hit ~3.5k, So the class is realy strange.

Then before acid blade, i must hit the poison dart, that have **** animation, i dont feel if it fires or not, UI is bad so i cant even see if i placed debuff on the target.

Exiting combat is a big problem, sometimes it takes ages, especialy if i used poison dart on someone, i can forget about leaving combat.

TA fade off too fast, i cant even runt to los, to get my fast heals, or even hit Stim boost after i escape zerg with dodge/cloaking screen.

Bug with cloaking screen not firing sometimes, when u have enemy in target is a big problem that must be fixed ASAP.

Stun from Laceriation not work in pvp... so why they even put such perk in talents? Is there any sense to use it after u get acid blade? 10 second cd damage proc that have 50% chance to go is a **** thing too imo.

 

And i wanted to ask a question: why Eviscerate not working in pvp? whats with this king of abilities?

 

Read tooltips. Don't cry about a class if you aren't even level 50 with a lot of /played.

[Suzushiiro]

Something to keep in mind with the knife attacks is that for all intents and purposes they actually happen the second you hit the button (barring lag shenanigans, of course,) you just don't see the damage numbers or death animation (if applicable) until the animation completes. It's really easy to see this if you use a knife attack to kill a quest mob, as the objective updates and the mob's health bar disappears immediately when you hit the button, then you see the damage number come out and the mob die when the animation actually connects.

 

The long animations also aren't delaying the time until your next attack at all, since the global cooldown starts when you hit the button, not when the attack animation finishes.

[Anelyn]

Something to keep in mind with the knife attacks is that for all intents and purposes they actually happen the second you hit the button (barring lag shenanigans, of course,) you just don't see the damage numbers or death animation (if applicable) until the animation completes. It's really easy to see this if you use a knife attack to kill a quest mob, as the objective updates and the mob's health bar disappears immediately when you hit the button, then you see the damage number come out and the mob die when the animation actually connects.

 

The long animations also aren't delaying the time until your next attack at all, since the global cooldown starts when you hit the button, not when the attack animation finishes.

 

That is so true. You only feel is delayed because you are prolly spamming buttons :-)

 

I have same on my sin, because of lag and graphics slowing down in crowded pvp areas with many players fighting together, I get behind a player, press maul, then sprint, and am already half map away when my character performs the maul and I get the kill

[sunsu]

Ive bee saying it all along, operative is a very powerful pvp class. I have been slicing and diecing, im just sick with joy that I choose this class. Acid blade is sick with hidden strike im hitting for almost 8500 in half a sec.

I havent even begun to say how awesome we are as healers. Looking at 200k and im only 32.

[Bwuce]

Ive bee saying it all along, operative is a very powerful pvp class. I have been slicing and diecing, im just sick with joy that I choose this class. Acid blade is sick with hidden strike im hitting for almost 8500 in half a sec.

I havent even begun to say how awesome we are as healers. Looking at 200k and im only 32.

 

you got acid blade at 32, not fair.

 

 

roughly how much "extra" dmg does acid blade give? i'm wondering if it's really worth it, i kinda think those kolto probes are cute.

[Trevock]

Ive bee saying it all along, operative is a very powerful pvp class. I have been slicing and diecing, im just sick with joy that I choose this class. Acid blade is sick with hidden strike im hitting for almost 8500 in half a sec.

I havent even begun to say how awesome we are as healers. Looking at 200k and im only 32.

 

How do you have Acid Blade at level 32? That's not possible.

[Doshibu]

How do you have Acid Blade at level 32? That's not possible.

 

He probably meant 42.

[Torn]

I am only a 23 and while I do rarely experience what your talking about I dont see it much. I usually quite well and tear most classes apart especially 1v1 - Mauraders/Sentinals being the hardest to kill solo - But now I have my "Cloaking screen" so I can get away from them lol

 

This class just takes tons of keybinds and use of almost every ability at the correct time and most definaitly NO keyboard turning - Come on we have 4m - 10m - 30m abilities and one of those 30m being a DOT Good stuff

 

I think the operative will end up being one of the hardest classes to play well especially in PvP - and while yes some animations and such can (and will) be improved it just takes proper play of the class to do well

[Astronium]

adapt, plan ahead, and it works fine... They are working on fixing this, but still.

 

 

I play a tactics vanguard, very much a melee class, and I have to press the ability about three times to guarantee it going off properly in PvP, I know its flawed, the devs knows its flawed, but they're going to fix it, they just need to change the way animations blend into each other.

[Rayaleith]

If your beef is really what you're saying in this post, rolling a new class won't help. The clunkiness you complain about is more related to the slower pace of pvp in general due to the 1.5s GCD. I still play WoW, anymore just pvp on my rogue, and server lag affecting positional attacks is the same. Quite often I'll kidney shot someone and stand behind them only to not be able to Ambush or Backstab; then the server catches up and my target warps 10 yards away from me, still stunned but wasting a second or two of shadow dance. Same happens here from my experience; laggy players and positional attacks are not very compatible.

 

The other complaints you have, the long drop combat timer, getting cc'd, etc... I see your beef. You play a warrior in WoW; since the middle of WotLK, warrior mobility has steadily gone up (even with the nerf to the talent juggernaut after s8). My advice? PvP on a less mobile melee, either a death knight or a rogue, then come to this game and play your operative. Warrior is the most mobile, most difficult to control, melee in WoW: ToR does not have an equivalent with all of those tools to break cc and move around the battlefield

Your play style simply needs to adapt to the lack of tools you have. Right now you aren't used to being in the situations you find your character in. I'm pretty sure that if you like melee, once you adjust to the less mobility you may even find Sith Warrior pvp to be fun (ignoring all of the complaints about being kited endlessly).

 

No offense, but I did PvP with my DK and still melee in SWTOR is still very bad. It is not the wow's warrior mobility. And since I have played rogue as well I had never ever had problems after a kidney shot as you discribe.

 

People come here for help, express an opinion, talk about problems in game or even cheer about a game. Let's not turn this as the general where people are trying to disregard any problem reported. Really.

 

Now if you indeed had these problems with wow (especially kidney shot) then you should find the responsiveness in this really terrible and it might be the lag compared to the game's problem. Sure thing is, that there is a problem with responsiveness and it gets worse with position requirement skills. Let's hope they will fix it soon since PvP is maybe the only decent thing you can do at 50.

[Rayaleith]

No shame in that, you just have to remember that WoW is way easier thant ToR, in every way.

 

 

WoW had the most crappy PvP in the history of mmorpgs, but okay, go on....

 

 

Just like in WoW, first in Damage is often the person who does the least for winning a battleground...

 

 

Yup, you absolutely need more skill to play ToR-PvP thant WoW-PvP, where every hit was shoved up your rear, no matter if youre in meleerange or 10 Yards away....

 

Skill

 

 

Oh sweet mother of god, a WoW-Rogue.....

 

 

You need to practice more and shake off your lazyness from years of easymode-pvp.

 

Stick with the operative, you obviously need a lot of practice...

 

 

Posts like these are for General forums. And really do not make me laugh with skill at pvp. Especially for mercenaries, sorceress, assassins and marauder. Really please. Go now back to general forums.

[Rayaleith]

Read tooltips. Don't cry about a class if you aren't even level 50 with a lot of /played.

 

I think since he is a customer, he can complain any time he likes. You guys (you know who) must have a line as least. Either tell people to take their sweet time and not rush to 50 and see the lack of content or tell them to go first at 50 and then complain... really...

[Rayaleith]

Now go there

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=105955

 

and learn about ability delay with proof.