Are tech dots going to recieve the same love as force dots?

[Dhurwin]

Make all dots cleanseable again.

 

The reason there are TWO different types of dots (force/tech) is that they are cleanseable. You put tech dots on force healer (sage/sorc) you put force dots on tech healer (merc/comm op/scound). A lot of you seem to think that every PvP situation is a 1v1 situation and should be reacted to and balanced as such. You're not SUPPOSED to be able to 1v1 a healer, get him with his CDs down and **** him in 4-10 sec. The truth is, most PvP content is 8v8 or 4v4, and in such content there are a lot more than just 2 dots going out every 4.5 sec. So even if you are a force dot user attacking a sage/sorc, if there are 2+ of you he's still going to be eating a lot of dots, through a little thing called teamwork you can effectively attack a healer regardless of his cleansing abilities. Oh boohoo 2 of your dots got cleansed, well that's what the other guy is for. If a dot class can't figure out to not try and 1v1 a healer then they don't deserve uncleansable dots, they deserve to be shut down. More often than not the cleanse would end up being used after the healer had LoS'd and excess damage was mitigated anyway because yea a cleanse is awesome but it IS a GCD and choosing where to spend that GCD is important.

 

This all being said, DPS with the option to heal IE sorc/merc/op and their respective mirrors, should not have in any way, shape, or form, any kind of heal or cleanse. If you choose to spec into DPS you choose to put your toon's life into the hands of another and hope to w/e deity it is you worship that he/she knows *** he/she is doing when it comes to healing. The rest of the DPS classes w/o the option to heal do just fine w/o all the extra BS. Yes this means some tweaking to the DPS classes who will be losing cleanses and heals but it's certainly not impossible.

 

Catering to the undeserving by giving them uncleanseable dots was, in all honesty, just lame.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Dhurwin

[Cordorian]

Oh and lightning spec needs dot protection too guise, their autocrit relies on affliction!!! -_-

 

and give LoS protection as well, once you see a lightning sorc eye to eye you are perma rooted

[JackNader]

Make all dots cleanseable again.

 

This all being said, DPS with the option to heal IE sorc/merc/op and their respective mirrors, should not have in any way, shape, or form, any kind of heal or cleanse. If you choose to spec into DPS you choose to put your toon's life into the hands of another and hope to w/e deity it is you worship that he/she knows *** he/she is doing when it comes to healing. The rest of the DPS classes w/o the option to heal do just fine w/o all the extra BS. Yes this means some tweaking to the DPS classes who will be losing cleanses and heals but it's certainly not impossible.

 

Catering to the undeserving by giving them uncleanseable dots was, in all honesty, just lame.

 

Agree with your statement about DPS specs having access to heals. I believe bioware kept them in as a form of utility. The downside is that it also factors in to their expected survivability. We all know these DPS classes cannot us those heals while under pressure. Unfortunately, they are included in the meta irrespective of that fact and because of this these classes have been given "fluff" defensive cooldowns.

Edited August 14, 2014 by JackNader

[JediMasterSLC]

I kinda want to support the idea of replacing the cleanse talent in healer trees with the actual cleanse ability, but am hesitant to nerf the already underpowered scoundrel and mando dps specs by removing their ability to cleanse tech dots (dps sorcs can't cleanse hardly any dots now except non-madness affliction and crushing darkness). It also prevents dps from cleansing whirlwinds and flashes, which I don't particularly like. That might be a good change for the future, but I think it would be out of place at this point.

[hallucigenocide]

" A lot of you seem to think that every PvP situation is a 1v1 situation and should be reacted to and balanced as such" either that or specc stacking wich is not a valid concern either.

[Haystak]

This is coming more from the enviroment in arenas than 1v1s

 

The prevelant theory amoung the more vocal sco/ops is that we need more mitigation, or passive heals to make it in ranked.

 

In my opinion thats only half the problem. If you cleanse flechette round, your pretty much cleansing half our burst. The fact that you can cast cleanse more often than I can cast flechette round, especially in longer fights means that I am SOL when trying to DPS down two of the three healing classes.

 

If your a scrapper you spend 12 talent points on making sure your opening burst is felt. using a simple cleanse to mitgate that damage by half by simply cleansing flechette round is a huge slap in the face.

 

How would you guys like it if your top tier ability in your tree could just be cleansed off.

 

Also flechette round is a dot, its not a cast bar ability, its not spammable ability, these comparisons to the abilities you guys are mentioning(force lightning......really? if scoundrels were using flechette round like sorcs use force lightning I would not even have alts....)

 

Cleanses will and do happen in arenas, this idea that no one uses cleanses in arenas, is complete horse ****.

 

Im not asking for a damage buff, an armor pen buff, godlike dcd, or even new abilities. I would just like the top tier ability in my tree to not be cleansable by an ability you get at level 24. You guys can fly off the handle all you want. Scoundrels arent tearing anything up inside arenas, we never have, and for once in my almost 3 years of subscribing in this game. I would like to feel like I can effectively bring my dps scoundrel to arenas.

 

as far as class stacking goes....how many dps scoundrels are even left. I know people have alts, but when was the last time someone even tried to stack scoundrels?

[CaptainApop]

as far as class stacking goes....how many dps scoundrels are even left. I know people have alts, but when was the last time someone even tried to stack scoundrels?

 

Last time we tried that they spent 6 patches systematically nerfing us. I'm not taking that risk are you?

[hallucigenocide]

This is coming more from the enviroment in arenas than 1v1s

 

The prevelant theory amoung the more vocal sco/ops is that we need more mitigation, or passive heals to make it in ranked.

 

In my opinion thats only half the problem. If you cleanse flechette round, your pretty much cleansing half our burst. The fact that you can cast cleanse more often than I can cast flechette round, especially in longer fights means that I am SOL when trying to DPS down two of the three healing classes.

 

If your a scrapper you spend 12 talent points on making sure your opening burst is felt. using a simple cleanse to mitgate that damage by half by simply cleansing flechette round is a huge slap in the face.

 

How would you guys like it if your top tier ability in your tree could just be cleansed off.

 

Also flechette round is a dot, its not a cast bar ability, its not spammable ability, these comparisons to the abilities you guys are mentioning(force lightning......really? if scoundrels were using flechette round like sorcs use force lightning I would not even have alts....)

 

Cleanses will and do happen in arenas, this idea that no one uses cleanses in arenas, is complete horse ****.

 

Im not asking for a damage buff, an armor pen buff, godlike dcd, or even new abilities. I would just like the top tier ability in my tree to not be cleansable by an ability you get at level 24. You guys can fly off the handle all you want. Scoundrels arent tearing anything up inside arenas, we never have, and for once in my almost 3 years of subscribing in this game. I would like to feel like I can effectively bring my dps scoundrel to arenas.

 

as far as class stacking goes....how many dps scoundrels are even left. I know people have alts, but when was the last time someone even tried to stack scoundrels?

 

dps scoundrels are in bigger need of survivabilty than cleanse protection

Edited August 14, 2014 by hallucigenocide

[Raansu]

Yes it does.

 

I'm going to bite and ask why just so I can have some entertainment at work today.

[Haystak]

I'm going to bite and ask why just so I can have some entertainment at work today.

 

A top tier talent tree ability shouldnt be erased by a level 24 ability, that can be cast twice as often as the top tier ability.

 

Have fun at work.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Haystak
24 instead of 22

[Raansu]

A top tier talent tree ability shouldnt be erased by a level 24 ability, that can be cast twice as often as the top tier ability.

 

Have fun at work.

 

That's not exactly a valid reason, especially considering how easily the dot can be reapplied and the main function of flechette round is the armor pen. The dot is mostly fluff that allows you to easily get round two procs which, if the player bothers to cleanse the dot you can easily just re-apply with your dart.

 

And lets be honest here. No one is going to cleanse the dot on flechette round. They will be too busy trying to survive the opener from a scrapper to worry about cleansing a dot.

[KingKalbo]

Read this thread thru last night while oil hauling at work..Highly entertaining. Don't have an opinion on DOT cleansing, beyond it's easy enough to re-apply. Probably wouldn't even care about a cleanse; if the 1st application of a dot still buffed wounding shots regardless of cleanse.(meaning hybrid would still be ok, without wasting points on the lesser damage DOTS). Don't hate bomb me; I'm drinkin an thinkin here.

 

Don't care about sorc/sages being FOTM either; bout time a ranged class got there anyway.

[Cordorian]

That's not exactly a valid reason, especially considering how easily the dot can be reapplied and the main function of flechette round is the armor pen. The dot is mostly fluff that allows you to easily get round two procs which, if the player bothers to cleanse the dot you can easily just re-apply with your dart.

 

And lets be honest here. No one is going to cleanse the dot on flechette round. They will be too busy trying to survive the opener from a scrapper to worry about cleansing a dot.

 

I actually do cleanse it when healing... but the only reason is i dont like other scrapper and concealment operatives and i want to annoy them as much as possible

[Haystak]

That's not exactly a valid reason, especially considering how easily the dot can be reapplied and the main function of flechette round is the armor pen. The dot is mostly fluff that allows you to easily get round two procs which, if the player bothers to cleanse the dot you can easily just re-apply with your dart.

 

And lets be honest here. No one is going to cleanse the dot on flechette round. They will be too busy trying to survive the opener from a scrapper to worry about cleansing a dot.

 

People do cleanse the dot.

 

and easy to apply? After your opening rotation, where both of your FR can be cleansed by a timed cleanse and dodge, you have one ability to get it off, which is available every 8 seconds. requires you to be behind the target and within melee range.....what else does it have to require to make it not easy to apply?

 

Also the armor pen isnt as good as you would think. You get 15% for 6 seconds, meaning you get 3 abilities if your not delayed...most likely 2. Within that time you can get off shoot first(since it benefits from FR) and two sucker punches, at most your increases those three abilities damage for a grand total of 2.5k max. The ability itself can hit for 7k. The armor pen is the fluff, not the dot.

[Raansu]

Its 30%. If you're going to argue about something at least know what the abilities do. And seriously, you're arguing over one situation over multiple classes. Its a non issue. Edited August 14, 2014 by Raansu

[JouerTue]

i do cleance flechette/acid..for sure if i'm healing and kiting the basterd

[CaptainApop]

I cleanse the first acid blade. The operative is usually dead before the second one hits.

[skilligan]

I'd gladly give back the dot immunity in exchange for the team stun bubbles, instant lift, and tk throw procs on tk wave.

[Carter_Mathis]

Thought experiment: Let's say we gave healers an instant cast heal that healed for 8.7K up to 15K damage. Let's have it cost 5% of their resources (30 Force or 5 energy) and let's give it a 4.5 sec. cooldown. Is there anyone who thinks that wouldn't be ridiculous?

 

*facepalm intensifies*

 

Those heals already exist in the game. Slow-Release Medpac and Kolto Probe. They both do that much healing over time and they're both cheap as hell. Similarly, cleanse negates some damage that would be dealt over time, since cleansing a dot it preventing periodic damage, not blocking direct damage. Cleanse isn't a direct heal, it serves the same purpose as a HoT.

 

In conclusion, your thought experiment was bad.

[Cretinus]

Are you really this stupid? 1) You get to cleanse madness sin's (the most op dps spec in the game right now) dots too. 2) If dots become cleanseable again, then you know what that means? If the other team doesn't have a sorc, they don't get to cleanse them!! Logic is hard. Because madness (both ACs) is so strong, this change would heavily incentivize having a sorc on your team, of any spec. But apparently that's a nerf. Rofl.

 

Are you really so horribly thick that you believe any sorc would play PvP only to cleanse the dots that have been planted on you?! A dps sorc wants to dps and not to spend the whole match cleansing. If cleanse becomes the only incentive to take a sorc then no sorc will play PvP.

[Haystak]

Its 30%. If you're going to argue about something at least know what the abilities do. And seriously, you're arguing over one situation over multiple classes. Its a non issue.

 

Was at work and its been about 2 years since I have looked the tool tip, so you got me. I know back in 1.0.1 they reduced it and I took the value that they reduced it from to be 30% when in fact thats what they reduced it too. The armor pen still only gives at most 2.5k extra damage per application.

 

Im not sure I understand your second part. This situation arises whenever I join an arena and the other team has a scoundrel or Commando healer, which low and behold, is almost every time. Hell you dont even have to be specced into heals to use cleanse. The fact that you assume it to be a non issue means you either have givenup on bringing dps scoundrels too arenas, or are trying to protect something else.

 

I for one still await the day my scrapper is welcomed in arenas, hell id settle with dirty fighting at this point.

 

In either case dot protection for FR against cleanse, is and will be one of my preffered buffs to the class, it doesnt increase potential damage, i dont expect it to last through purge. I just want my top tier ability to do the damage its supposed to do.

 

What are you protecting that Dot protection on FR would provide.....lemme guess...you heal?

[foxmob]

haven't played since ~2.7 but it always annoyed me that flechette cost resources and had no actual cd on it. isn't it a given that every time you use backblast or the opener that you'll want a flechette on it? I'd like to see it as a passive abil. it wouldn't gel with the idea of an active capstone, and I'm just pipe dreaming, but...yeah. I'm that guy who doesn't remember if he's reloaded a flechette and wastes energy right before he's about to open on someone. lol

 

regarding the DoT, I don't think it would be a big deal to make flechette immune to cleanse, but I'm of the opinion that none of these dots should be uncleansable. and JLC was spot on (in another thread?) when he said something to the effect that making all these force DoTs immune to cleanse was robbing Peter to pay Paul since the only people cleansing them in the first place were sorcs.

 

if anyone were to complain, I'd think it would be the anni maras, as one (or both?) of their dots are (inexplicably) cleansable by tech users. (I understand mechanically that they aren't force DoTs, but...hello. jedi. "use the force, Luke").

 

ok. I'm done.

[KingKalbo]

WOW..I MEAN..REALLY..WOW. I haven't played my sorc in nearly a year..I'm conquerer geared folks..logged in to see what all the fuss was about..Holy shizz it's on easy derp mode in madness tree... The calamity!!..might have to go darkside for awhile lol. I didn't believe it but if yur not pulling huge numbers and your geared your bad..REALLY BAD. I don't even have full augments and I can damn near facetank with style...just lol

[JediMasterSLC]

Are you really so horribly thick that you believe any sorc would play PvP only to cleanse the dots that have been planted on you?! A dps sorc wants to dps and not to spend the whole match cleansing. If cleanse becomes the only incentive to take a sorc then no sorc will play PvP.

 

Oh I'm sorry, did you just want to PvP to do your PvE rotation on kids? You know what, you're right- **** utility abilities. **** providing the opportunity for counterplay. **** cleansing whirlwinded teammates. Let's all just tunnel dps on each other and cross our fingers.

Edited August 15, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[madtycoon]

Pyshic Absorption should have just reduced the cooldown of Mind Crush and Sever Force by half whenever they became cleansed/purged instead of making dots undispellable.

 

SWTOR cleansing system is applied based. Cover your Mind Crush with Weaken Mind, Sever Force Root, Sever Force, Force Slow, Discharge, Rippling Force or you know? CC

 

But I guess that's too hard.