SW:TOR will experience the first ever overnight ecomonic crash of an MMO.

[Kalfear]

OP cannot possibly be serious. Ergo, must be joking or trolling.

 

I think its a grossly over rated sense of self worth personally.

[Tsillah]

So because it doesn't go far enough we should just not let it go any distance?

 

Did I say that?

 

Nope, I didn't.

 

What it does mean, is that for a credit sink to be effective over time it needs to be a repeat credit sink. This will only take some creds out for the moment and people will have gained them back quick enough.

 

Now, I do not know if the housing itself will be a credit sink as other suggest. I read there were actually very few decorations that can be bought with credits.

 

So all in all I don't think this is really a good credit sink as far as credit sinks go and therefore I don't believe it will have the effect the OP is talking about.

[Shevaresh]

I understand credits are cake for some players to earn, they aren't for others. While we all have the same means to earn them, some players are simply more dedicated, while others are far more casual. SWTOR is a casual game, easy to step away from, easy to return to, easy to gear up...making credits though, especially making 50 million, isn't a "casual" task.

 

True... if you rely on one person doing it all, then it's a completely unreasonable amount. However it's content targeted exclusively to guilds and thereby also balanced around being something that requires work from multiple people. My own guild managed to grind this money in less than a week, and we're not a big(or even medium) guild (roughly 30, of which approx 15 logs in regulary) and we're a casual guild. While 50 million is easily percieved as loads of money, for 10-15 players working together to accumulate it, it really isn't that much.

 

My fear is that the 50 million credit entry point will be too much of a barrier (mental or real) for too many guilds (old and new), which will result in less players participating in Galactic Conquests and less content for players unwilling/unable to come up with 50 million credits.

 

The content is still optional. Operations, flashpoints and pvp will still continue to be developed without requiring you do participate in the Guildship/Conquest feature, much like it is with GSF. Should the price the price end up being varified as too high, Bioware will undoubtably lower it. However I doubt Bioware has just randomly guessed at 50 millions being an accurate estimate, rather than having several matrices of average player income/guild bank content and the like, to support this perticular price-tag as realistic. Time will tell, but it's still my honest opinion that people who've been opposed to this pricetag are basing their concerns on a overly low expectation of the average player income and/or guild size. Some will definately require more time to gather the money than others, but for most guilds we are really talking about weeks rather than months to gather 50 million.

 

This past year, SWTOR has been starved of content.

 

Have to comment on this. Over the last year SWTOR has gotten 3 entirely new features added to the game in: Arena, Galactic star fighter and Tactical flashpoints - aswell as having released an entirely new tier of raiding content with 2 new operations. Comparatively, World of Warcraft has in the same period: released a new raiding tier. SWTOR is not content-starved. We are, if anything, getting new content and features at an astounding pace (Most likely attributable to the succes of the Cartel market, and the massive income it generates)

 

Releasing this new update with the first piece of GUILD content ever, but locking it behind a 50 million credit barrier, will rob many groups of players of this much needed content. There is NOTHING good about that imo. There's nothing positive for this game, by having the entry point so high, that many players won't have access to it..."then they can do personal conquests", not the same. Guild content is GOOD content and NEEDED content...the entry point is just too high. Keep the overall cost the same, but the entry should be more attainable.

 

Time will tell if its "many" being barred from it or just "few". That we could properly argue to our heads turn blue, until we actually see some results from the "live" version.

 

Having pricetag that has a level to it, where your guild is actually required to put some collective work into the game to achieve access, is a point I'd get behind though. Far too much of this game, and most other MMOs, caters to a single-player gamestyle. Even flashpoints and operations have become single-player centric experiences with the addition of "group-finder", in the sense that you can, not only, simply cue for yourself -> have minimal interaction with the ones you're matched with -> focus exclusively on fullfilling your role -> get loot/xp -> go on about your own game again. Not only can you do this. This is actually rather the norm of interaction within the game these days, rarely broken off by other things than someone ridiculing others for making mistakes/being slow etc. Guilds are a different experience from that (hopefully for most), a place that can remind you that this a social experience to play this game and MMOs in general. Guildships is a feature, that with its pricetag and the conquest elements, brings back more gameplay thats focussed on getting collective achievements, rather than personal. The pricetag, imo, signifies this as it near impossible for single (average/casual) players to get that kind of money together (and be willing to part with it again), whereas it is achievable with a collective effort of a group of people. So I will content that the pricetag is not only pretty good and achievable for most guilds, it's actually also beneficial for the game in the long run to get this emphasis back on collective achievement rather than personal.

[Elminster_cs]

Have to comment on this. Over the last year SWTOR has gotten 3 entirely new features added to the game in: Arena, Galactic star fighter and Tactical flashpoints - aswell as having released an entirely new tier of raiding content with 2 new operations. Comparatively, World of Warcraft has in the same period: released a new raiding tier. SWTOR is not content-starved. We are, if anything, getting new content and features at an astounding pace (Most likely attributable to the succes of the Cartel market, and the massive income it generates)

 

Are you serius? Two ops in a year and Arena that in PvE server is impossible for you is good?

A GFS that no one care now (there is no link to your main character so no one is playing anymore)

Some useless tactical flashpoint that no one cares because there are no usefull loot, so is boiring doing them after the first try.

 

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah hope you are not serius, really.

[Shevaresh]

Are you serius? Two ops in a year and Arena that in PvE server is impossible for you is good?

A GFS that no one care now (there is no link to your main character so no one is playing anymore)

Some useless tactical flashpoint that no one cares because there are no usefull loot, so is boiring doing them after the first try.

 

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah hope you are not serius, really.

 

A very constructive and useful approach to debating, thanks for your input.

[azudelphi]

A very constructive and useful approach to debating, thanks for your input.

 

I would say there has definitely been a lull in end game content or sustainable alternate advancement.

 

That's not to say the items added aren't welcome, but the pace of stories, planetary quests, etc has been slow. Dread Fortress and Dread Palace coming up on a year old, no new operations since (Nightmare modes don't really count)...

 

That being said, I agree with the rest. 50 mil is a lot to an individual, to a small group of determined individuals it is entirely reasonable.

[MSchuyler]

NONE of this makes any sense at all unless you back it up with cold, hard facts.MANY guilds already have the money. I say "many" based on the threads on the server forums. Harbinger, just as one example, has 4 pages full of guilds reporting they already have the money and will have a ship on the first day. Other guilds are reporting it took a week to raise the funds. Other guilds are reporting they have enough for two ships or have enough for a fully decked-out ship.

 

Now maybe all these guys are lying through their teeth. You can certainly claim such and continue on your merry way. We won't know until the 19th, and even then there are unlikely to be specific stats available. But this idea that no one will be able to participate because they are so poor and the goal unattainable appears to be abject unsubstantiated speculation by the usual flock of Eeyore players.

 

This is a GUILD issue, not a personal one, designed, one would think, to promote guild participation. For those of you who roll their eyes about players who prefer solo play "in a MMO!!!" well, here's an example of BW agreeing with you. And when you have guilds with 15 players reporting, "We're good to go!" that pretty well puts the lie to the idea that the issue will flop. It also kills the idea that the GTN will crash. The 'incentive to crash' is past. The cash is already earmarked.

 

1. Guild ships will succeed.

2. The GTN will not crash.

3. Eeyores will always be with us.

[Shevaresh]

I would say there has definitely been a lull in end game content or sustainable alternate advancement.

 

That's not to say the items added aren't welcome, but the pace of stories, planetary quests, etc has been slow. Dread Fortress and Dread Palace coming up on a year old, no new operations since (Nightmare modes don't really count)...

 

That being said, I agree with the rest. 50 mil is a lot to an individual, to a small group of determined individuals it is entirely reasonable.

 

When it comes to story content, I'd agree. If you consider that this was the main "selling point" for this MMO back when it was release, the fact that they aren't going to introduce new class stories (anytime soon), is disappointing to me aswell. And yes, if all you do is raid, getting two operations in one year doesn't seem as much.

 

But looking at the entire spectrum of endgame content that has been released over the last year in SWTOR (whether the individual content is something you like or not) and comparing this to other high-end MMOs on the market currently, there really isn't a basis for claiming that SWTOR is "content starved" by a long shot. We're more likely placed in one of the top spots, when it comes to have gained new features over the last year. You might not like the content that they have released and that's is an entirely fair point to make. But we're not "content-starved" by any means.

 

This subject is derailing the thread though, as the topic is not really about content-updates, so I'll stop posting about this further in this thread.

[Elminster_cs]

1. Guild ships will succeed.

2. The GTN will not crash.

3. Eeyores will always be with us.

 

1. Yeah like the GFS that is no more supported and no one care mores. Well conquest is NOW something like: "Ehy guys please do all the things you have done 16 times again and again!! But be afraid just those with 200+ active will win, for the others the ship is just something to show... nothing more.!"

 

2. We will not know. But for sure now price are dropping. Isotope was 100k one week ago now are under 79k. Lot of stuff of CM are solded really cheap, you can just do a quick search on the forum. Wealthy player actually control the market, a good example is that last time I have take 2 chrystal (there was only that two) at 600k each and sold them back at 1.2m each. So for me this sink is GOOD. I know people with 200m or even more, so finally they will throw away lot of credits.

 

3.

[Rafaman]

NONE of this makes any sense at all unless you back it up with cold, hard facts.MANY guilds already have the money. I say "many" based on the threads on the server forums. Harbinger, just as one example, has 4 pages full of guilds reporting they already have the money and will have a ship on the first day. Other guilds are reporting it took a week to raise the funds. Other guilds are reporting they have enough for two ships or have enough for a fully decked-out ship.

 

Now maybe all these guys are lying through their teeth. You can certainly claim such and continue on your merry way. We won't know until the 19th, and even then there are unlikely to be specific stats available. But this idea that no one will be able to participate because they are so poor and the goal unattainable appears to be abject unsubstantiated speculation by the usual flock of Eeyore players.

 

This is a GUILD issue, not a personal one, designed, one would think, to promote guild participation. For those of you who roll their eyes about players who prefer solo play "in a MMO!!!" well, here's an example of BW agreeing with you. And when you have guilds with 15 players reporting, "We're good to go!" that pretty well puts the lie to the idea that the issue will flop. It also kills the idea that the GTN will crash. The 'incentive to crash' is past. The cash is already earmarked.

 

1. Guild ships will succeed.

2. The GTN will not crash.

3. Eeyores will always be with us.

 

Very well stated. The fact is that for many guilds that want the capital ship, the expenditure has already happened. They have the creds in bank saved and ready. There will not be a void in cred supply to individuals.

 

For others guilds there will be a mad rush to make creds, but again this will be a group activity and creds can be made in many different ways.

 

As for Strongholds, the market place will fluctuate as it does anytime new packs are introduced. You will see an increased focus on Stronghold items for a while, some price wars, and in a couple of weeks everything will go back to supply/demand equilibrium.

[branmakmuffin]

I think its a grossly over rated sense of self worth personally.

Well, there is that possibility.

[Arkerus]

I don't think the economy is going to crash. It might fluctuate a bit but there is a reason MMO economies are usually extremely flexible to change.

 

--> The influx of money INTO the economy is, for all intents and purposes, limitless. You can try and take money out of the system (repairs, gold sinks, guild ships) but it can always be replenished. Add in the fact that people can generate credits from cartel packs (bought with REAL MONEY) sold on the GTN and you have a credit limit generation that isn't limited except by anything except how much people want to grind. If you need credits you can always grind them out with dailies. The NPC will never stop paying you.

 

Now on the other hand...

 

If we did not get credits from grinding dailies (killing mobs, etc) then yes, the economy could crash. But that isn't the case so I am not worried about it.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Arkerus

[Svarthrafn]

I have a question:

 

Who cares? It is a fricking video game.

[branmakmuffin]

I have a question:

 

Who cares? It is a fricking video game.

Say it ain't so!

[TUXs]

I have a question:

 

Who cares? It is a fricking video game.

 

...

[Simbr]

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.

[Joesixxpack]

...

 

orly?

[announcerharris]

Didn't read the thread - maybe this has been discussed - but unemployment is impossible here, so the conclusion of the OP that a recession is impending seems invalid.

[Rafaman]

Is there going to be a run on guild banks? Should I get my creds out now?

[Darth_Wicked]

Is there going to be a run on guild banks? Should I get my creds out now?

 

Hide all those credits in...

The Sarlacc.

It will be safe there. For sure.

[TravelersWay]

I see two problems with your thesis. First off, most people will not be investing in the guild ships. Yes, I recognized them as a money sink from the beginning. It's going to affect a small group of people who have the money to spare and really no one else.

 

Bigger issue: unlike real life, the money supply is infinite.

 

This. Not to mention the fact, as evidenced by these forums, Guilds and players have been farming credits at an accelerated rate since the announcement of the prices for ships and strongholds. At best, most people will end up simply farming what they need and spend that amount on the ships and strongholds, thus ending up with the same amount of overall cash they started with. As a "gold sink" GSH will fail epically for the most part for this reason.

[JimG]

The day after 19 August, the wealthiest people in game will be down to their last 5-20 million credits. The middle class in game will be down to their last 1-5 million credits. And the average players, which tend to have at most, maybe 2 million credits, will be broke or near broke. Only a small percentage of players (those taking a break from the game and those who simply do not like spending money) will maintain their pre-stronghold level of wealth.

Your theory incorrectly assumes almost everyone will be interested in Galactic Strongholds and that's not the case at all. There are a large number of people who will burn little to no credits on Strongholds. Others, like myself, have a bunch of Cartel Coins saved up and plan on using those for some of the unlocks rather than credits. Sorry, your theory is just speculation....founded on inaccurate assumptions. Sounds like the kind of nonsense we heard before Y2K, lol.

[ivanhedgehog]

Mature? You pretty much said new player will quit playing because they are weak, not dedicated enough to pursue goals set before them? And you are calling me out? In no other game has adding guild housing caused new players to stay away. In no other game has adding guild housing killed the small guild. I'm sorry but facts disprove your assessment.

 

WoW had their highest population after guild achievments were added. If what you said was remotely accurate it would have been the opposite. Now I am not saying people joined WoW for that just saying they didn't leave WoW like you said they did. Now if you don't like taking in facts and having your incorrect comments corrected by facts then yes please add me to your list.

 

wow had a lot of other content to do including multiple leveling paths..swtor does not. that is a huge difference

[Khevar]

wow had a lot of other content to do including multiple leveling paths..swtor does not. that is a huge difference

I was under the impression that the leveling experience in TOR had greater variety than that in WoW? I've never played the other game myself, just curious.

[ivanhedgehog]

NONE of this makes any sense at all unless you back it up with cold, hard facts.MANY guilds already have the money. I say "many" based on the threads on the server forums. Harbinger, just as one example, has 4 pages full of guilds reporting they already have the money and will have a ship on the first day. Other guilds are reporting it took a week to raise the funds. Other guilds are reporting they have enough for two ships or have enough for a fully decked-out ship.

 

Now maybe all these guys are lying through their teeth. You can certainly claim such and continue on your merry way. We won't know until the 19th, and even then there are unlikely to be specific stats available. But this idea that no one will be able to participate because they are so poor and the goal unattainable appears to be abject unsubstantiated speculation by the usual flock of Eeyore players.

 

This is a GUILD issue, not a personal one, designed, one would think, to promote guild participation. For those of you who roll their eyes about players who prefer solo play "in a MMO!!!" well, here's an example of BW agreeing with you. And when you have guilds with 15 players reporting, "We're good to go!" that pretty well puts the lie to the idea that the issue will flop. It also kills the idea that the GTN will crash. The 'incentive to crash' is past. The cash is already earmarked.

 

1. Guild ships will succeed.

2. The GTN will not crash.

3. Eeyores will always be with us.

 

the guild ship itself is just the start. the crafting method for opening rooms is a non starter. the credits are the easy part. 38 years of farming ev/kp every week isnt going to work.