Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[uaintjak]

Don't forget that the payoff is being able to do planet conquest... which is likely just more dailies.

 

Then why do you care?

[TUXs]

Pretty much.

 

If they wanted to do this right, EA/BW would have tied Guild ships into content...

 

Say, for example, being able to turn in the vendor tokens from KDY, the Gree event, and the like for a GS token. Add in token purchasable with commendations. Heck, make the tokens purchasable through credits as well as CC if you wanted.

 

You could cap the weekly amount of tokens an individual account could receive to prevent guilds with 400 characters over 40 accounts from having a guild ship in one mad 24 hour rush.

 

In this way, players would be earning Guild Ships simply by doing what they've always done. PvP guilds could still get a GS by using PvP comms instead of the weak credit rewards from PvP. Everyone wins and no one has to do anything beyond what they would normally be doing.

 

But no, instead they put this huge number up that the 1 percenters of SWTOR think is too small but the majority who don't have unlimited time to waste playing games thinks is too large...

 

Someday, I hope, an MMO is created by people who have a clue as to what they are doing...because it is painfully obvious that this one sure as heck isn't one....

This was a great idea tbh...

[Grayseven]

A full set of dailies with four or five of your guild? Two hours at the most (for 10-ish missions.)

 

Your point?

 

A solo player running all of the available dailies (aside from the GSI dailies) that do not involve grouping will take about 5 hours and net you around 424k credits.

[mokkh]

The whole point of a gship is that it is something people have to work for. did you expect them to just start handing out star destroyers like candy?

 

Yes, I'll take mine in peppermint.

[AlienEyeTX]

Why would casuals need a guild ship right from launch?

Also, even if you are a casual player (playing few hours per week), running dailies nets you something north of 1 million and can be done in few hours. If you are in a guild of casuals, you can achieve the amount just as well.

 

I never stated we had to be able to get it right from launch. Just that it should be more accessible. I'm fine with working toward it, but it should be a more reasonable amount of work.

[Devrius]

Okay a "filthy casual" here in, of course, a "filthy casual" guild

 

We are a five men guild, all IRL friends who meet up and that have at most around 20 million credits, this is if we burn the credits we stockpiled for gear changes when the new lvl cap hits (hint = we're not).

 

I know what you're thinking: he's gonna ask for a credit disccount or something! nope, just a CC option.

 

We have few hours to play, do mainly story mode OPs and Hm FPs with tacitcals once in a while, heck a few still have alts to lvl for the storyline.

 

Getting the 50 millions would be too much like work, since it would mean replacing the few hours we can play fun stuff with grinding.

 

Which is why we were ready to spend money on our Guild Ship, as in CC not credits.

 

All we ask is what SWTOR has already provided in many QoL items (like legacy unlocks) a way for people with money but little time to have access to what people with a lot of time can grind.

 

Yes we may be "filthy casuals" but we spend money on the game and keep it going, we're just asking if we can give them more, because right now they only alternative is gold farmers... And we would rather un-install then go there!

[Grayseven]

if your guild isnt active enough to have a small amount like 50M, what planet conquest content are they expecting to participate in?

 

the ship is a tool for those that are active enough to want one. you're putting the cart before the horse.

 

In your blind, tunnel vision world, you once again fail to see the point.

 

My guild is large and active. We do not have 50 million laying around in a guild bank since our large and active player base likes to use their credits because they are active players.

 

It would take no time at all for our large and active guild to put 50 million or even 150 million into our guild bank IF AND ONLY IF THEY DO NOTHING ELSE BUT EARN CREDITS FOR THE GUILD.

 

Again, what part of that seems fun? I don't play to make my guild's bank balance larger, I play to have fun. I earn credits while having fun and use those credits to...you guessed it...have fun.

 

My game enjoyment is NOT tied to having massive amounts of credits. I don't play the game to earn credits, I play the game to have fun with friends.

 

In your blind ignorance you fail to see that having fun is what this game is all about and devoting every moment of game time to earning credits just to buy a guild ship is NOT FUN.

 

Wake up and actually read what people are saying instead of lashing out with hatred because people don't see earning credits as fun.

[Vandicus]

I never stated we had to be able to get it right from launch. Just that it should be more accessible. I'm fine with working toward it, but it should be a more reasonable amount of work.

 

Well when it comes down to reasonable accessibility, that's probably more dramatically affected by credit gathering efficiency than by the price.

 

Up above we've got Grayseven earning less than 100k per hour doing dailies, whereas 100k per 20 minutes is a far more normal speed if you do the more efficient zones.

 

Also take into consideration selling gathered mats on the GTN(which requires almost no additional time investment over normal play time).

 

In order to make an inefficient credit gatherer who earns 100k per hour have a time investment comparable to original time for the person who earns 300k an hour on dailies, the price would drop from 50 million to ~17 million. 17 million I'd feel is almost ridiculously cheap.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Vandicus

[errant_knight]

I'd say the problem here isn't the 50 million, it's that so many players think that nothing should be difficult to achieve and that every player should be able to get everything, which would make no goal particularly special. Diamonds wouldn't be very special if they were lying all over the ground.

[Pagy]

In your blind, tunnel vision world, you once again fail to see the point.

 

My guild is large and active. We do not have 50 million laying around in a guild bank since our large and active player base likes to use their credits because they are active players.

 

It would take no time at all for our large and active guild to put 50 million or even 150 million into our guild bank IF AND ONLY IF THEY DO NOTHING ELSE BUT EARN CREDITS FOR THE GUILD.

 

Again, what part of that seems fun? I don't play to make my guild's bank balance larger, I play to have fun. I earn credits while having fun and use those credits to...you guessed it...have fun.

 

My game enjoyment is NOT tied to having massive amounts of credits. I don't play the game to earn credits, I play the game to have fun with friends.

 

In your blind ignorance you fail to see that having fun is what this game is all about and devoting every moment of game time to earning credits just to buy a guild ship is NOT FUN.

 

Wake up and actually read what people are saying instead of lashing out with hatred because people don't see earning credits as fun.

and if you want to do hm/nim ops, you need money to fund it.

 

and if you want to participate in the planet conquests, then buying a flagship with your friends will help.

 

that's fine if you dont want to earn in-game currency. but sorry, this mmo has currency. an economy. it has things that cost credits and if you cant afford it, i really dont care. this game isn't for you then. and these flagships especially aren't for you.

 

you aren't entitled to have everything in the game. strongholds and flagships will cost money. get over it.

[Grayseven]

Well when it comes down to reasonable accessibility, that's probably more dramatically affected by credit gathering efficiency than by the price.

 

Up above we've got Grayseven earning less than 100k per hour doing dailies, whereas 100k per 20 minutes is a far more normal speed if you do the more efficient zones.

 

Also take into consideration selling gathered mats on the GTN(which requires almost no additional time investment over normal play time).

 

In order to make an inefficient credit gatherer who earns 100k per hour have a time investment comparable to original time for the person who earns 300k an hour on dailies, the price would drop from 50 million to ~17 million. 17 million I'd feel is almost ridiculously cheap.

 

When I wrote a credit making guide, I ran every single daily in the game for 55's. I timed them all out from start to finish and tracked how much you could earn from the mission payouts.

 

5 hours, just under 500k for one character. It's real easy to do the math.

 

Now, if I wanted to be "efficient" I could just run the non-group CZ's and earn around 56k credits for 20 minutes work on multiple 55's and earn the same 480k credits in just 200 minutes (not counting load times).

 

But again, what the hell is fun about doing the same easy dailies for 3+ hours a day?

[Aries_cz]

Okay a "filthy casual" here in, of course, a "filthy casual" guild

 

We are a five men guild, all IRL friends who meet up and that have at most around 20 million credits, this is if we burn the credits we stockpiled for gear changes when the new lvl cap hits (hint = we're not).

 

I know what you're thinking: he's gonna ask for a credit disccount or something! nope, just a CC option.

 

We have few hours to play, do mainly story mode OPs and Hm FPs with tacitcals once in a while, heck a few still have alts to lvl for the storyline.

 

Getting the 50 millions would be too much like work, since it would mean replacing the few hours we can play fun stuff with grinding.

 

Which is why we were ready to spend money on our Guild Ship, as in CC not credits.

 

All we ask is what SWTOR has already provided in many QoL items (like legacy unlocks) a way for people with money but little time to have access to what people with a lot of time can grind.

 

Yes we may be "filthy casuals" but we spend money on the game and keep it going, we're just asking if we can give them more, because right now they only alternative is gold farmers... And we would rather un-install then go there!

 

Just a suggestion - instead of running the same flashpoints or OPS again and again, just dedicate one or two of your "ops times" to running a round of dailies. In 5 people, you will cut through it all almost instantly, and each player will receive something north of 1 million credits. *BLAM*, 5+ million credits in few hours of gameplay that would otherwise be spent on grinding the same content.

[AlienEyeTX]

Well when it comes down to reasonable accessibility, that's probably more dramatically affected by credit gathering efficiency than by the price.

 

Up above we've got Grayseven earning less than 100k per hour doing dailies, whereas 100k per 20 minutes is a far more normal speed if you do the more efficient zones.

 

Also take into consideration selling gathered mats on the GTN(which requires almost no additional time investment over normal play time).

 

In order to make an inefficient credit gatherer who earns 100k per hour have a time investment comparable to original time for the person who earns 300k an hour on dailies, the price would drop from 50 million to ~17 million. 17 million I'd feel is almost ridiculously cheap.

 

And I would say that maybe (maybe) 20 mil would be the highest price that I consider reasonable. I like the idea someone had of earning it through comms, too. It would be great to earn this running content that was meant for guilds (or groups, at least) to run. Grinding dailies for credits is not fun for many of us. Let me contribute warzone comms. I know it is my decision as to what I want to play when I log on. There are many options. Pretty much all of them should be able to be utilized to the end of acquiring the ship. What's the harm in that?

[Khevar]

In your blind ignorance you fail to see that having fun is what this game is all about and devoting every moment of game time to earning credits just to buy a guild ship is NOT FUN.

I see this as a lack of imagination. You're saying you can either run dailies, or be broke?

 

I found running dailies for credits to be slightly less fun than a root canal. And yet, there are expensive things in this game. So I looked into crafting, and discovered a way to make money with a fraction of the effort. In fact, there was a period of time when I was too busy to play for about a month. BUT, I would log onto my toons in the morning, send them on crafting runs, log on just before bed, send them on crafting runs, list stuff on the GTN. About 15 minutes a day, over the course of a month, I made like 10 million credits.

 

The fact of the matter is, your guild could amass 50 million credits without trouble. It doesn't require "devoting every moment of game time" unless your goal is BUY GUILD SHIP IMMEDIATELY.

 

A small group of 20 people could save 40K credits per day per player and make 50 million in 2 months.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Khevar

[Pagy]

Open your friggin' eyes and stop being ignorant.

 

Running HM/NiM ops pays for itself. But if you want a GS, you can't run HM/NiM ops because you need those credits for your ship. You will have to sublimate every other aspect of your game play in order to buy this ship...and for what? They don't give enough to be worth 50 million. The value of the GS is not equal to its cost.

 

You need to get over yourself. You have no idea because apparently you have nothing better to do with your life than play a game. It has been shown that calling for 50 million for these things is way over priced for most players and guilds but again, you don't get it because this game is apparently your entire life.

 

So sad.

successfully running an ops pays, wiping on progression doesn't. you need repairs, stims, adrenals, the gear if you buy mods.

 

bw knows what guilds have in their banks you can be sure.

 

i wont comment on the personal attacks.

[BuriDogshin]

In your blind, tunnel vision world, you once again fail to see the point.

My guild is large and active. We do not have 50 million laying around in a guild bank since our large and active player base likes to use their credits because they are active players.

 

It sounds like you are saying: "Please make guildships cheaper because we want it but not as much as we want other stuff that we already spent all our money on."

 

If so, how is this a problem for BioWare? Does BW care what you spend creds on? Perhaps all they care about is that you spend. Since your guild already has things they are spending their creds on (outfits, crazy expensive mounts, or 180 enhancements, perhaps?), perhaps they are not the target market for guild ships?

 

Or are you instead saying "My guild is full of impulse buyers who don't have the self-discipline to save up for a large purchase?" Again, that may not a problem for BioWare. You are spending, and maybe that's all that matters.

 

I am glad your guilds enjoys so many of the things you can already buy, BTW.

[Devrius]

Just a suggestion - instead of running the same flashpoints or OPS again and again, just dedicate one or two of your "ops times" to running a round of dailies. In 5 people, you will cut through it all almost instantly, and each player will receive something north of 1 million credits. *BLAM*, 5+ million credits in few hours of gameplay that would otherwise be spent on grinding the same content.

 

We play together but a few times a month, schedules are random for us, it would literally mean wasting our few times we can all play together on credit farming...

 

We play mostly in duos and more often then not by ourselves.

[Grayseven]

I see this as a lack of imagination. You're saying you can either run dailies, or be broke?

 

I found running dailies for credits to be slightly less fun than a root canal. And yet, there are expensive things in this game. So I looked into crafting, and discovered a way to make money with a fraction of the effort. In fact, there was a period of time when I was too busy to play for about a month. BUT, I would log onto my toons in the morning, send them on crafting runs, log on just before bed, send them on crafting runs, list stuff on the GTN. About 15 minutes a day, over the course of a month, I made like 10 million credits.

 

The fact of the matter is, your guild could amass 50 million credits without trouble. It doesn't require "devoting every moment of game time" unless your goal is BUY GUILD SHIP IMMEDIATELY.

 

A small group of 20 people could save 40K credits per day per player and make 50 million in 2 months.

 

Is two months wait a reasonable expectation for a major portion of a new content release? I don't think so.

 

How would you feel if they released the SM, HM and NiM of an OP all at the same time, but told you that in order to do the HM you had to run 8 SM OP first, and then to run the NiM you had to run 8 HM first? Similar to what you are suggesting.

 

Time is just as important in a game as credits or commendations. The majority of players do not play for endless hours every single day so every bit of game time has to count but more importantly it has to be fun.

 

If it isn't fun, you'll find players looking elsewhere for there fun.

 

And the GTN is all well and good but what happens when you have the entire game population suddenly needing massive amounts of credits for these GS? You are going to see undercutting at a level never before imagined. Values will drop...but more importantly will be the fact that people may not be buying because they are saving all their credits for a GS.

 

If people ain't buying, you ain't selling and since the only way to earn "free" credits is through dailies and the like the amount of credits available to buy is limited to what people are out there earning.

 

A person with a healthy credit balance and some forethought will be able to make a killing by buying up undervalued items and holding them for resale once the GS furor dies down.

[DarthTHC]

Open your friggin' eyes and stop being ignorant.

 

Running HM/NiM ops pays for itself. But if you want a GS, you can't run HM/NiM ops because you need those credits for your ship. You will have to sublimate every other aspect of your game play in order to buy this ship...and for what? They don't give enough to be worth 50 million. The value of the GS is not equal to its cost.

 

You need to get over yourself. You have no idea because apparently you have nothing better to do with your life than play a game. It has been shown that calling for 50 million for these things is way over priced for most players and guilds but again, you don't get it because this game is apparently your entire life.

 

So sad.

 

That's a pretty hostile reply... and an inaccurate one at that.

 

It's not very difficult for a modestly sized, moderately active guild to acquire 50 million credits, if that's what they set their minds to do.

 

It's a matter of prioritization. Do they want the guild ship, or don't they? If they want the guild ship, the path is pretty simple. There have been a lot of posts that talk about the ability for 1 player to very easily and with little time investment get a million credits a week. Let's say your modest guild has 10 players who want a guild ship badly enough to do that.

 

That's 10 mil a week. In 5 weeks, you have your 50 million. And, believe me, that 1 mil a week is low-balled. People who know how to earn credits can, again without life-shattering effort, pull 10-20 million each week.

 

Now if you had started doing that back when guild ships were announced - in March of this year - and used only half the weeks to fundraise for it, you would have around 100 million. The feature was announced about 19 weeks ago. 10 weeks * 10 million = 100 million.

 

If you procrastinated or didn't realize the ships would require a modest commitment from the guild and thus need to start now, you can have your ship by the end of August, just a couple weeks after they go live.

 

If your modestly sized, moderately active guild doesn't want a guild ship badly enough to put in minimal to modest effort, then they don't want it badly enough to complain about the effort required to get it, do they?

Edited July 25, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Przemo_No]

 

If they wanted to do this right, EA/BW would have tied Guild ships into content...

 

Say, for example, being able to turn in the vendor tokens from KDY, the Gree event, and the like for a GS token. Add in token purchasable with commendations. Heck, make the tokens purchasable through credits as well as CC if you wanted.

 

You could cap the weekly amount of tokens an individual account could receive to prevent guilds with 400 characters over 40 accounts from having a guild ship in one mad 24 hour rush.

 

In this way, players would be earning Guild Ships simply by doing what they've always done. PvP guilds could still get a GS by using PvP comms instead of the weak credit rewards from PvP. Everyone wins and no one has to do anything beyond what they would normally be doing.

 

 

that's a brilliant idea!

[Aries_cz]

We play together but a few times a month, schedules are random for us, it would literally mean wasting our few times we can all play together on credit farming...

 

We play mostly in duos and more often then not by ourselves.

 

Didn't sound like that from the original post

Still, even when playing duo or solo, dailies are quick runs, just like flashpoints, which I imagine you must have run over and over already, no?

[Grayseven]

It sounds like you are saying: "Please make guildships cheaper because we want it but not as much as we want other stuff that we already spent all our money on."

 

If so, how is this a problem for BioWare? Does BW care what you spend creds on? Perhaps all they care about is that you spend. Since your guild already has things they are spending their creds on (outfits, crazy expensive mounts, or 180 enhancements, perhaps?), perhaps they are not the target market for guild ships?

 

Or are you instead saying "My guild is full of impulse buyers who don't have the self-discipline to save up for a large purchase?" Again, that may not a problem for BioWare. You are spending, and maybe that's all that matters.

 

I am glad your guilds enjoys so many of the things you can already buy, BTW.

 

Again, open your eyes. Is it fun to just save all the credits you earn? It isn't like you are financing your retirement with them...they exist to be used.

 

When you tell players that you will have to use all of your time and credits to fund one over valued item that will not return 50 million credits of fun or activity because, lets face it, EA/BW has shown themselves capable of screwing up a good thing time and time again...you basically tell them that they can either have a guild ship or have fun.

 

It has nothing to do with discipline or impulse buying and everything to do with asking for more credits than an item is worth. If I can have more fun with my share of 50 million credits by dumping it into a Nar Shaddaa casino, you can bet I'd be doing that rather than "saving" for something that doesn't seem worth the price.

[Vandicus]

When I wrote a credit making guide, I ran every single daily in the game for 55's. I timed them all out from start to finish and tracked how much you could earn from the mission payouts.

 

5 hours, just under 500k for one character. It's real easy to do the math.

 

Now, if I wanted to be "efficient" I could just run the non-group CZ's and earn around 56k credits for 20 minutes work on multiple 55's and earn the same 480k credits in just 200 minutes (not counting load times).

 

But again, what the hell is fun about doing the same easy dailies for 3+ hours a day?

 

To do a quick check on my memory(my experience totally disagrees with yours), I ran Ilum. Took 15 minutes, and netted 110k. Granted Ilum is one of the most if not the most efficient daily zone, but some of the others are comparable. At a full 5 hour run, I think you're well into the territory of doing the really slow dailies(though 424k seems incredibly low).

 

 

And I would say that maybe (maybe) 20 mil would be the highest price that I consider reasonable. I like the idea someone had of earning it through comms, too. It would be great to earn this running content that was meant for guilds (or groups, at least) to run. Grinding dailies for credits is not fun for many of us. Let me contribute warzone comms. I know it is my decision as to what I want to play when I log on. There are many options. Pretty much all of them should be able to be utilized to the end of acquiring the ship. What's the harm in that?

 

Well the point wasn't that dailies were the only(or most efficient or most fun option), so much as that 50 million is actually relatively achievable even for small groups of casual players.

 

I agree with you that other forms of currency should be options for contribution, although I imagine all hell would break loose were we to attach a credit conversion value to warzone commendations(not that forum outrage bothers me though).

 

 

What makes 20 million the price to you though?

[LanceCorporalDan]

that's a brilliant idea!

 

I like it too.

[BuriDogshin]

When I wrote a credit making guide, I ran every single daily in the game for 55's. I timed them all out from start to finish and tracked how much you could earn from the mission payouts.

 

5 hours, just under 500k for one character. It's real easy to do the math.

Those numbers may be obsolete. When I solo Section X on a DPS, I expect to complete the weekly in about 35 minutes and net 125K, not including the value of the Basic coms (currently worth more than 2K each). If I team up with my wife, I'll make the same money in less time. The only time it takes longer is when I have to wait for a fourth button-pusher for the Heroic.

 

Czerka and Oricon weeklies are even more profitable per minute. Having 168/180 gearing and knowing our rotations makes it very fast. Many fights take only a few seconds; even bosses take less than a minute.

 

I only count weeklies because I have enough toons that just doing all the weeklies on them all would be more time than I have to spend on the game.

 

The convertibility of Basic coms to credits via Isotope-5 sales substantially increases the profitability of dailies and some GF FPs. I wish Elites could be converted to creds so easily ... but at least my companions are getting well-geared.