Rendet Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Just accidentally flagged another player while doing the "Ancient Gree Relays" mission because I jumped in to help with the elite droids on my powertech. Unfortunately his AOE over my pvp flagged character flagged him and then I couldn't talk to the droid because we were in combat. I had to put him down even though I didn't mean to flag him and I felt bad about it. Just makes me feel like perhaps the AOE flag issue at least should be solved. On my healer doing WB's in the Gree event I often get flagged which can cause issues but honestly I don't mind as I find open world pvp fun. I see how a PVE only player who is under geared may find this extremely unfair. Just thought I would post this while it was fresh on my mind. I don't want to make another home for trolls so I'm just hoping a dev reads this and maybe brings it up in one of their meetings. I don't know what a good solution would be to be honest but hopefully they can figure something out. If your the guy on Quesh that I had to take out I did do the /sorry emote so I hope I didn't cause you too much frustration lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulyok Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, I agree, this sucks big time. Also, OT: Just in case people haven't read Dulfy and may find this useful: you don't need to take out droids in Ancient Gree Relays mission. Just approach on a speeder, click on the droid to talk, then run away. The quest becomes much faster this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If you do not fight (do damage) for a while (like 30 seconds or less) you will exit combat. Or run run away from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Really there should be a check box in the preferences that disallows you to enter pvp mode in pve areas effectively making it impossible for others to pull you into pvp mode and also disallowing yourself to toggle pvp unless you uncheck the preference setting. That would be much better than trying to tweak the toggle system itself. For all I care they can disallow that option on pvp servers but I think for pve servers it would be perfectly ok to have such a setting. And even though I rarely have an issue with this myselfI know I'd use it. Why would I pvp an enemy player when I don't even have pvp gear on anyway? Chances are when they are flagged they probably are prepared for pvp, so I just want to avoid the whole thing when I'm doing dailies or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Again this is my peeve, I cannot understand why on a PVE server players need to flag themselves PVP, why not go to a PVP server a run a character there so you can PVP to your heart's desires and when tired of PVP go back to the PVE server. Why PVP on a PVE server open world? There are already areas on PVE servers where you could go and PVP like in Tattoine, we have starfighters, Hutball etc for PVP. I am still dumbfounded about it. I chose a PVE server so I would not have to deal with constantly watch over my shoulder to see if someone is sneaking into my fights so I get flagged and they can have their ganky, griefing laugh at the expense of someone who despise open world PVP. I think the devs on this game really need to look into this harassment against PVE players on PVE servers. Edited July 24, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendet Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 If you do not fight (do damage) for a while (like 30 seconds or less) you will exit combat. Or run run away from each other. That would have been a good option I suppose. However, I was perma flagged for pvp from the Gree event which doesn't let me unflag no matter how long I don't do pvp or toggle pvp off manually. Must be a bug. Honestly, we were both standing there while our companions were attacking each other and he eventually attacked me so I took care of the problem that way. All of the ideas I'm hearing sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 That would have been a good option I suppose. However, I was perma flagged for pvp from the Gree event which doesn't let me unflag no matter how long I don't do pvp or toggle pvp off manually. Must be a bug. Honestly, we were both standing there while our companions were attacking each other and he eventually attacked me so I took care of the problem that way. All of the ideas I'm hearing sound pretty good. I was talking about "being in combat", which prevented you from talking to the droid. PvP flag has nothing to do with that. You should be able to unflag after being in "safe area" (like inside a base) for 5 minutes, IIRC. And of course, no damage means no damage from you or your companions. You can disable companion (Ctrl+2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambril Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 AOE should not be triggering the PVP flag. There was a fix for this in one of the early patches. If it is still happening under certain circumstances then that is a bug and I urge anyone that it happens to to submit a bug report. If players are intentionally causing the bug (not the OP), then they are exploiters and griefers. However I feel that just eliminating AOE effects does not go far enough. I have always considered the PVP flagging in this game to be flawed. In my view it should not be possible for an unflagged player to damage, heal or buff a flagged one, either directly or indirectly. If you want to do such then you should manually flag yourself. But since that is not how the game works currently, if you wish to avoid unintended PVP you need to be careful with targeting. You should disable auto-targeting so that if your terget dies suddenly you don't find yourself targeting and damaging a flagged player. When manually changing targets check your target before using an ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Just accidentally flagged another player while doing the "Ancient Gree Relays" mission because I jumped in to help with the elite droids on my powertech. Unfortunately his AOE over my pvp flagged character flagged him and then I couldn't talk to the droid because we were in combat. I had to put him down even though I didn't mean to flag him and I felt bad about it. Just makes me feel like perhaps the AOE flag issue at least should be solved. On my healer doing WB's in the Gree event I often get flagged which can cause issues but honestly I don't mind as I find open world pvp fun. I see how a PVE only player who is under geared may find this extremely unfair. Just thought I would post this while it was fresh on my mind. I don't want to make another home for trolls so I'm just hoping a dev reads this and maybe brings it up in one of their meetings. I don't know what a good solution would be to be honest but hopefully they can figure something out. If your the guy on Quesh that I had to take out I did do the /sorry emote so I hope I didn't cause you too much frustration lol. Just fighting near a PVP player will not flag them even if you (or they) use AOE. From what I can gather there might be some weird edge case with companions, but most likely he clicked you by accident. If you do not fight (do damage) for a while (like 30 seconds or less) you will exit combat. Or run run away from each other. I think I remember it being 8 seconds, though I could be wrong. AOE should not be triggering the PVP flag. There was a fix for this in one of the early patches. If it is still happening under certain circumstances then that is a bug and I urge anyone that it happens to to submit a bug report. If players are intentionally causing the bug (not the OP), then they are exploiters and griefers. However I feel that just eliminating AOE effects does not go far enough. I have always considered the PVP flagging in this game to be flawed. In my view it should not be possible for an unflagged player to damage, heal or buff a flagged one, either directly or indirectly. If you want to do such then you should manually flag yourself. But since that is not how the game works currently, if you wish to avoid unintended PVP you need to be careful with targeting. You should disable auto-targeting so that if your terget dies suddenly you don't find yourself targeting and damaging a flagged player. When manually changing targets check your target before using an ability. Agreed with everything here. I think they should change the flagging system so that when you try to attack/heal/buff a flagged enemy, basically anything that could result in you becoming flagged, it will instead give a red message saying "Cannot [heal/attack/buff] a PVP flagged player while not flagged for PVP", or a confirmation box that says "You have tried to [heal/attack/buff] a PVP flagged player, click OK to flag yourself". I think the former would be a better solution as the latter might get a bit annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrwellworth Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 There does indeed seem to be some odd bug with companions that folks are using to flag you. I wouldn't have believed it fully if I had not seen it happen. Now, before I say this, know that I am also at gree, flagged for pvp on my scoundrel, having a blast killing other players who are flagged or same faction players in the free for all zone. I was, though, on my shadow tank last night after xeno and not flagged, doing a mission when some imperial players followed me and my Nadia and would stand right on her when we attacked. She has a force push attack, it's really rather annoying, lol, but she hit it and boom I was flagged, and she was attacking the imperial players. Random bug, probably. INB4: No one was healing me. I was not in a group. I was not flagged and shadow tanks do not have an aoe attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Here we go again. Let's just say I completely agree with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambril Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 ... shadow tanks do not have an aoe attack. Not disputing that you were unintentionally flagged an possibly victim of a bug/exploit, but shadow tanks do have AOE attacks centered on the character - Force Breach, Whirling Blow, and Slow Time. Also, you do know that you can enable/disable any companion abilities on their toolbar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Agreed with everything here. I think they should change the flagging system so that when you try to attack/heal/buff a flagged enemy, basically anything that could result in you becoming flagged, it will instead give a red message saying "Cannot [heal/attack/buff] a PVP flagged player while not flagged for PVP", or a confirmation box that says "You have tried to [heal/attack/buff] a PVP flagged player, click OK to flag yourself". I think the former would be a better solution as the latter might get a bit annoying. I really like this idea. Just another "are you sure you meant to do this" check would probably be easier for them to handle than trying to figure out every little way people are getting themselves flagged and squashing/modifying those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Changing the flag system so that unflagged cannot do anything to flagged would probably be easiest way of doing things. But people should still disable their auto target and watch where they are shooting blaster or projecting Force energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendet Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Changing the flag system so that unflagged cannot do anything to flagged would probably be easiest way of doing things. But people should still disable their auto target and watch where they are shooting blaster or projecting Force energy. I completely agree! That would also allow flagged/non-flagged players of opposing factions to work together without any accidents if they are just killing the same mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Again this is my peeve, I cannot understand why on a PVE server players need to flag themselves PVP, why not go to a PVP server a run a character there so you can PVP to your heart's desires and when tired of PVP go back to the PVE server. Why PVP on a PVE server open world? There are already areas on PVE servers where you could go and PVP like in Tattoine, we have starfighters, Hutball etc for PVP. I am still dumbfounded about it. I chose a PVE server so I would not have to deal with constantly watch over my shoulder to see if someone is sneaking into my fights so I get flagged and they can have their ganky, griefing laugh at the expense of someone who despise open world PVP. I think the devs on this game really need to look into this harassment against PVE players on PVE servers. Open world pvp is actually the only pvp I like, so I wouldn't want that option to be taken away. I do agree that they should look at a way to keep people from being accidentally flagged by good intentions or, worse, by gankers. The problem is how do you make it impossible for an unflagged player to alter the course of combat without being flagged (ie healing one opponent, dropping aoes on combatants affecting the outcome) while still protecting innocent bystanders? If you make it that they can't fight other players while a toggle is off, by the time they switch it in a fight, it may well be over, which would be no fun either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Open world pvp is actually the only pvp I like, so I wouldn't want that option to be taken away. I do agree that they should look at a way to keep people from being accidentally flagged by good intentions or, worse, by gankers. The problem is how do you make it impossible for an unflagged player to alter the course of combat without being flagged (ie healing one opponent, dropping aoes on combatants affecting the outcome) while still protecting innocent bystanders? If you make it that they can't fight other players while a toggle is off, by the time they switch it in a fight, it may well be over, which would be no fun either. I think if my memory does not fail me that in RIFT there is a system that if you accidentally or intentionally click or target another player a pop up comes that tells you that you cannot do that unless you flag yourself first and the person you are targeting must be already flagged or be from the other faction, usually they are highlighted red. But even been from the other faction dont let you tag them unless you flag yourself first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I do not open-world PvP, but still: I'd rather the devs developed new content and new features rather than fixing what I regard as a minor annoyance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrwellworth Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Not disputing that you were unintentionally flagged an possibly victim of a bug/exploit, but shadow tanks do have AOE attacks centered on the character - Force Breach, Whirling Blow, and Slow Time. Also, you do know that you can enable/disable any companion abilities on their toolbar? I kinda meant an area of attack like xs-fly by or mortar volley, where an aoe is placed on the ground, or a force in balance, but I see where you are coming from. Really though, it's not much of a bother, and if it is I would just go unflag. I just thought I would share a bug that happened to me, since it is said that the unintentional flag bug was fixed in a long ago patch, though for the life of me I can't remember which, maybe 1.2. Really though, who knows, maybe I accidentally targeted the person. What I'm trying to say is just let it roll off man, if ya get flagged for whatever reason, die with grace and unflag at the base, switch instances or call a group to help ya h2f and make em pay. That's whats so fun about this event multiple options. So lets quit the tears, and the threads about griefers and ganking, cause ya don't need to go into the pvp area to get max rep and if ya get flagged you can unflag or do the other things I listed above. Like I said somewhere else today, red is dead, there is no faction in free for all, you know that going in to it. Also, tears and rage posts just make people wanna gank ya more. Oh and to the poster I quoted, thanks for the reminder, as a raider who does not use companions for anything other then crafting and wearing offspec gear, I always forget that if I had the inclination I could pretty much play as my comp as I can control a lot of their attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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