The harm PvPers do to PvE

[Kingsbount]

Autotargeting is the worst thing for FPs and Ops, it completely screws up kill order. As a raid leader, if I catch anyone going outside of the kill order, that's the first thing I ask is if they have autotarget enabled.

 

Autotarget is useful in PvP, it's the absolute worst in PvE because it causes wipes by breaking CCs, makes it more likely you'll not be hitting the tank's target and therefore pulling aggro and either getting yourself killed, or taxing the crap out of your healers.

 

Really.. disable it, do yourself a favor.

 

It doesn't really bothers me as a tank

I must say sometimes it helps me a lot.

[Draqsko]

It doesn't really bothers me as a tank

I must say sometimes it helps me a lot.

 

Also tends to get you killed alot.. by PvPers in open world. So yeah, enable auto target, deal with consequences.

 

BTW, I'm a tank too, you don't need auto target, keybind Target Nearest Enemy, that with Target Next Enemy will be all you need to get a target easily.

[hadoken]

Okay...

 

I MAYBE found a reason for this flagging thing.

 

As you know, auto targeting (AT) is enabled for most of us. Its pretty useful thing in FP or OP's.

However this may couse you to be flagged.

 

I will try to give an example.

You fight with bunch of mobs, keeping them busy, spamming AOE, and watching your health.

Same with your companion or group mates.

Near you is lurking flagged person of opposite faction.

He trying to flag you by walking into your AOE.

You don't mind him and keep fighting.

And here comes this "exploit".

For your AT system there's no difference between regular mob and him.

So basically, you will target him as an enemy even without your will. System will do it for you (yeah... thanks alot).

And here we go - you are flagged and pwned.

 

I'v tryed to re-construct my situation as it was on Ilum.

So... Here the result.

 

Of course i don't know if theres more ways to flag someone, but this is what i got.

 

And my suggetion about improving PVP flag system would fully protect you from this kind of problems.

He can't hit you without flag - you can't hit him without flag. Simple.

 

Yea that's kind of what we've been saying the entire thread really. Auto-targeting seeing a flagged player as a valid target when you're not flagged is a problem.

[TUXs]

Wow... Not just a troll. But still learning to read troll.

Just wow...

Not a troll - you've even confirmed that it was your auto targeting causing your flag, which is where the "lazy, sloppy or inattentive" part comes in.

[Kingsbount]

Not a troll - you've even confirmed that it was your auto targeting causing your flag, which is where the "lazy, sloppy or inattentive" part comes in.

 

Nope. I confirmed that there's a possible way to flag target.

And even at my post i didn't say that i was flagged by THIS way, becouse it was my experiment.

Besides, i don't even know what happend there - killed droid with CL and then i was looking at my corpse

But again, you are too busy to read it properly, don't you?

 

But in any case all you words like - Don't use AOE, turn off auto target, turn off comps AOE - they all confirms that PVP system provided by BW is bad and need re-design.

And my suggestion will fulfill wishes of PVE community - to Play without limits.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kingsbount

[Darth_Wicked]

I saw

at Reddit and made me laugh out loud. Not exactly the topic subject but again, damn funny.

[well]

I saw

at Reddit and made me laugh out loud. Not exactly the topic subject but again, damn funny.

 

Had to watch it a couple times. Could use those guys in Huttball...lol that was funny.

[Lyshar]

Some people seem to be dead set on blaming auto target, disregarding everything else.

 

Even when that has some blame (not saying I think that's a valid excuse) it doesn't mean you are to blame. If you are guarding someone and they get flagged, so do you. If you are healing someone and they get flagged, so do you.

 

I have even been flagged for summoning a companion, not doing anything, just summoning. Ungrouped, not even a healing companion (a combination of which can explain it). I actually think that's why I got flagged last character I logged onto. I grouped with someone, neither of us was flagged so I didn't need to worry about healing, but soon after we started there was the flag popping up. The thing was when I double checked the flags were down he hadn't summoned his companion.

 

And there's the flagging yourself to just do your job, yesterday I had to choose, do I heal the tank or let him die? I was doubting if my AoE heals were reaching him, which could be an exploit option to grief the griefers, but which they could also use. In order to keep him alive I had to use a real heal which would get me flagged.

 

And that still doesn't include the stealth trick click scum. Had one trying to get me yesterday, he failed. But it's still a bunch of losers giving the REAL PvPers a bad name.

 

If you want to keep ignoring that all and blame it on auto target (which I don't even think is a valid excuse,but whatever you can have that opinion, no hard feelings about that) then I think I might as well see you as being in the same boat as those griefers, if it doesn't mean you are one of them.

[Kalfear]

Not sure how people get flagged (if they really did not target flagged person by mistake)

 

Today on Illum was in a group with 2 flagged players and 1 other not flagged player (I was also not flagged)

 

Rep attacked the 2 flagged guys after they started a combat with a champion so I tried to hit him and champion with force lightning and I had no effect on the rep player and did not get flagged myself.

 

It wasn't until I intentionally targeted the flagged rep player and DOTed him directly did I also become flagged.

 

From what I've seen the AOE effects abilities are just ignored by flagged players if your not also flagged.

 

The ONE problem I have heard of is a non flagged player companion healing a flagged group mate causes player to be flagged as well.

 

But that kinda makes sense if you think about it

[Transcendent]

I imagine it's nearly as annoying the PVE players in warzones, so utterly out of their depth it's tragic. PVE players doing warzones are making me want to cancel my account.

 

Please BW, stop them from doing PVP.

 

Well played

[LordArtemis]

Well, I think preventing flagged players from getting attacked by non-flagged players, using a toggle, would be beneficial overall to the game and only hurt those folks that wish to try and trick folks into a flag.

[Kissakias]

Don't hit them next time, problem solved. Stop being sloppy or lazy or inattentive...

 

You know that they stealth close to you and wait for u to AOE?

OR when your in a group fighting a champ, WB, they run between your group members so they can eat 1 shot from your simply mistake since you are concentrate into the champ, the WB, whatever you shoot?

quess you dont

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kissakias

[hadoken]

You know that they stealth close to you and wait for u to AOE?

OR when your in a group fighting a champ, WB, they run between your group members so they can eat 1 shot from your simply mistake since you are concentrate into the champ, the WB, whatever you shoot?

quess you dont

 

I'm sure he does, he just doesn't care. He and a few others in this thread are more interested in blaming the players that get flagged by the jackholes giving PVPers a bad name.

[Lyshar]

I'm sure he does, he just doesn't care. He and a few others in this thread are more interested in blaming the players that get flagged by the jackholes giving PVPers a bad name.

 

My point exactly, which just tells me those people are probably what you refer to as "Jackholes" themselves.

 

Serious PvPers in my opinion would welcome improved options to stay out of PvP, so that they would get a better chance at worthy targets. When I PvP I prefer the other party to be interested in PvP and not be some accidentally flagged soul. On top of that I would want them to be at more or less even odds so that it'd be fun for everyone involved.

 

That means I get more enjoyment out of the instanced PvP matches, although those aren't often balanced.

 

If people actually had the option to choose, really choose for themselves if they wanted to PvP by always manually flagging, it'd also help those people who want to blame people for running around flagged. But they probably don't want that, do they?

[Kantaso]

PVPers tend to get bored of not been able to PVP anyone because they are all sitting in town and have to get their next fix by harassing PVE players.

[TUXs]

You know that they stealth close to you and wait for u to AOE?

OR when your in a group fighting a champ, WB, they run between your group members so they can eat 1 shot from your simply mistake since you are concentrate into the champ, the WB, whatever you shoot?

quess you dont

AOE doesn't flag you. TARGETING them AND attacking them does. Just because you PvE, doesn't mean you can be sloppy. Pay attention to your target...that's what I'm saying. If you make a mistake, suck it up. Mistakes are YOUR fault.

I'm sure he does, he just doesn't care. He and a few others in this thread are more interested in blaming the players that get flagged by the jackholes giving PVPers a bad name.

Not true.

 

I don't advocate the jackholes doing what they are doing either, I'd prefer they be banned from the game tbh. But I'm also not going to pretend the people playing sloppy have no fault in this themselves...they do. THEY are the reason these jackholes go out their and grief them. Their whining, their crying...it gives the griefers EXACTLY what they want. I refuse to accept that players are so incapable of playing better - deny these jerks of what they do it for.

 

PLAY BETTER and this ends. Keep being sloppy and they'll keep doing it. When they no longer get flagged by sloppy play, they'll leave and do something else.

 

Also...these jerks don't give PvPers a bad name because they aren't PvPing, they are simple griefers. Don't classify them as PvPers.

[TUXs]

My point exactly, which just tells me those people are probably what you refer to as "Jackholes" themselves.

I'm not a "jackhole" myself...play smarter and you deny the jackholes of what they want.

[hadoken]

PLAY BETTER and this ends. Keep being sloppy and they'll keep doing it. When they no longer get flagged by sloppy play, they'll leave and do something else.

 

It's funny that you consider "sloppy play" to be "using a core feature of the game enabled by default".

 

No, the problem isn't that I don't turn off auto-target. The problem is that auto-target considers a flagged player to be the next target to hit when I'm not flagged.

 

And the main problem is these flagged players running into the active combat areas of unflagged players with the intention of exploiting this. Players you are tacitly defending by claiming I am somehow encouraging it.

 

Additionally there are reports in this thread of various AE attacks that flag you simply by the flagged player walking into them. Some classes actually use said AE attacks as part of their rotations (even single target). "Just don't do AE" is not a valid answer and indeed doing so IS sloppy play for some classes.

Edited July 23, 2014 by hadoken

[Khevar]

Additionally there are reports in this thread of various AE attacks that flag you simply by the flagged player walking into them. Some classes actually use said AE attacks as part of their rotations (even single target). "Just don't do AE" is not a valid answer and indeed doing so IS sloppy play for some classes.

Here's the thing. I tried reproducing this exploit last night with a flagged guildy and I couldn't. I tried 4 different toons:

 

Merc using Death from Above

Sniper using Orbital Strike

Powertech using Flame Sweep

Sorc using Force Storm

 

None of these AOE's spread the flag to me. I suspect that the people talking about AOE attacks causing a PvP flag weren't actually paying attention, and didn't notice what actually happened.

 

It'd be nice of someone could reproduce this exploit and explain exactly how it occurs. Not only would it make for a better bug report, it would also assist players in avoiding it.

 

I do know that it's NOT as simple as just using an AOE while a flagged player runs through it, as some have claimed.

[TUXs]

It's funny that you consider "sloppy play" to be "using a core feature of the game enabled by default".

 

No, the problem isn't that I don't turn off auto-target. The problem is that auto-target considers a flagged player to be the next target to hit when I'm not flagged.

 

And the main problem is these flagged players running into the active combat areas of unflagged players with the intention of exploiting this. Players you are tacitly defending by claiming I am somehow encouraging it.

 

Additionally there are reports in this thread of various AE attacks that flag you simply by the flagged player walking into them. Some classes actually use said AE attacks as part of their rotations (even single target). "Just don't do AE" is not a valid answer and indeed doing so IS sloppy play for some classes.

I never said don't use AoE - AoE's aren't the issue because according to those who have actually tested it, they don't flag anyone, attacking the flagged player is the issue.

 

Are you using macros? Auto-target only does ONE of the 2 actions required - it targets them. ATTACKING them is step 2. Please, explain to me how the hell you're flagging them without attacking them?

 

Those various reports are all suspect. I tend to believe the person who has actively gone out and TRIED to flag himself using every method he could think of, yet he was unsuccessful.

 

I don't condone what these players are doing, but the guys whining about this need to play smarter.

[TUXs]

Here's the thing. I tried reproducing this exploit last night with a flagged guildy and I couldn't. I tried 4 different toons:

 

Merc using Death from Above

Sniper using Orbital Strike

Powertech using Flame Sweep

Sorc using Force Storm

 

None of these AOE's spread the flag to me. I suspect that the people talking about AOE attacks causing a PvP flag weren't actually paying attention, and didn't notice what actually happened.

 

It'd be nice of someone could reproduce this exploit and explain exactly how it occurs. Not only would it make for a better bug report, it would also assist players in avoiding it.

 

I do know that it's NOT as simple as just using an AOE while a flagged player runs through it, as some have claimed.

EXACTLY the same conclusion mikebevo came to!!!

 

Thank you for taking time from your schedule to do this.

[Kantaso]

Maybe your companion is doing the targeting?

[hadoken]

Are you using macros? Auto-target only does ONE of the 2 actions required - it targets them. ATTACKING them is step 2. Please, explain to me how the hell you're flagging them without attacking them?

 

Apparently some of you guys don't even know how the game works. And yet you're defending it.

 

With auto-target on (and it is by default) if I hit an attack key with no target it not only targets the next valid target in range, but it performs said attack on them. All with ONE button press. It makes the decision for you to flag you.

 

Perhaps now you can see where the issue is with flagged players.

Edited July 23, 2014 by hadoken

[Khevar]

With auto-target on (and it is by default) if I hit an attack key with no target it not only targets the next valid target in range, but it performs said attack on them. All with ONE button press. It makes the decision for you to flag you.

 

Perhaps now you can see where the issue is with flagged players.

Look, I understand you're frustrated with getting flagged.

 

That said, if the problem is with auto-target, then the best solution is to turn it off. I don't begrudge you the opportunity to request BW to change the way the system works, but at least in the meantime you could reduce your changes of falling prey to the bug?

 

Unless you are in a NM operation, you do NOT have to push the envelope in terms of DPS. If you see yellow players nearby, slow down your rotation a bit. Only use tab-target. Make sure the correct enemy is visible before hitting your next ability.

 

Honestly, I'd recommend turning off auto-target ANYWAY. It prevents accidentally breaking a mez, or pulling a second group of mobs accidentally.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Khevar

[mikebevo]

With auto-target on (and it is by default) if I hit an attack key with no target it not only targets the next valid target in range, but it performs said attack on them. All with ONE button press. It makes the decision for you to flag you.

Yes, which is why you turn off auto-attack. You don't still use the one quick bar either do you. You understand you can adjust your UI? Just because something is on by default does not mean it should be used. Walk is on by default doesn't mean I am not going to change it to Sprint.

 

Even with auto-target on. You don't have to hit the next attack when there is nothing targeted. You can also cancel a channeled ability when the target pops up with movement.

 

Perhaps now you can see where the issue is with flagged players.

Already knew the issue with flagged players attempting to grief players. However, for the most part I am not going to feel sorry for someone hitting a flagged player and then crying when the flagged player attacks them back. Don't hit them, no flag, no problem.

 

I don't begrudge you the opportunity to request BW to change the way the system works,

I do, bad PvP players have the right to use auto-target just as much as bad PvE players. Edited July 23, 2014 by mikebevo