Should Bind on Pickup be removed (or changed)?

[BuriDogshin]

But there are new entrants into the game and its economy all the time, if inflation goes out of control then someone creating a new character for the first time will be priced out of everything in the player economy.

 

If those of us who have been playing for years had gone that whole time without credit sinks then the economy will reflect that, and it will be a huge obstacle for new players to become participants in.

And new players are essential for any MMO's survival, so this is an important point.

[MillionsKNives]

You're not even trying.

 

Interesting choice of words since you haven't addressed the question. How does the character with which I choose to acquire the gear change the time with which it takes to acquire it, and the overall lifetime of the content? I still have to acquire the same amount of gear and it will take the same amount of time to acquire it. Not to mention that there's almost nothing that will change in the gearing process between how it is now and making all bound gear BtL, since we already have legacy gear.

 

Buy it from a crafter? Exchange mats for the final product, thus making crafting something worthwhile in this game? Thus, less people complaining about the CM sucking the life out of this game?

 

And if they can't gather the mats themselves? Remember, this is a case of inflation, so mats will be just as absurdly expensive as the augment kit. And how is trading mats to the crafter making crafters any more worthwhile than just giving them credits?

Edited July 17, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[BuriDogshin]

Unlocking BoP by making BoL effects nothing in the game. ...

I use ONLY Legacy gear now to swap back and forth gear between Maurader/Sentinel, Vanguard/Powertech, Assassin/Shadow. So opponents to this, ask your self why it really matters so much to give others effectively more design choice? Are you bitter about the way people use BoL already and just don't like it personally? Thats all I see here.

So do you just not use Earpieces, Implants and Relics, or have you found a way to move them between your toons after they are bound? Because that's the issue here. It's the only end-game gear that you either need to earn on the toon that uses it, or buy from a crafter if you are satisfied with having less than top-tier gear (since top-tier 186 gear cannot be crafted). And many of us want to keep it that way.

 

And besides, why would anyone want BW to redesign Binding, when they could be developing new content instead?

Edited July 17, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[Darth_Wicked]

Interesting choice of words since you haven't addressed the question.

 

You're the one who pretty much ignored what I said earlier.

 

How does the character with which I choose to acquire the gear change the time with which it takes to acquire it, and the overall lifetime of the content? I still have to acquire the same amount of gear and it will take the same amount of time to acquire it. Not to mention that there's almost nothing that will change in the gearing process between how it is now and making all bound gear BtL, since we already have legacy gear.

 

Isn't it obvious...?

 

Did I say it was?

 

What I said is that a measure such as this one would further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever piece of content they come to both release and retool.

 

Again, grinding the same content over and over again is a staple from every single MMO out there and truth be told, Bioware has made it easy enough(!!!) - over time - to go around that hurdle.

 

People only have to grind for Relics, Implants and Earpieces... AND STILL THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

 

Again, if people have everything they need to once they hit LV55 with a new character, what is it exactly they wanna do with that LV55, once they hit the cap?

 

Complain about "not enough content" that they willingly chose to skip with that new LV55?

 

And if they can't gather the mats themselves? Remember, this is a case of inflation, so mats will be just as absurdly expensive as the augment kit.

 

Bioware easily provides mats to every single LV55 that completes S&V and TFB, the first time around. Again, you come around as someone who wants everything without being willing to do much to obtain it.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[TX_Angel]

I really don't get it.

 

You don't have to get it, that is ok.

 

What is an issue is when you want to take your limits and restrictions and place them on other people.

 

You don't want BoL gear, don't use it. But don't try and take it away from those of us who do.

[Darth_Wicked]

You don't have to get it, that is ok.

 

What is an issue is when you want to take your limits and restrictions and place them on other people.

 

You don't want BoL gear, don't use it. But don't try and take it away from those of us who do.

 

The same line of reasoning and freedom of speech that grants them the right to claim for such feature or change is EXACTLY the same that gives me the right to disagree.

 

Don't try to restrict my freedom of speech, by claiming to uphold and defend the one you supposedly crave for others, when it serves your interests.

 

Especially when you didn't exactly bring to the table a counter-argument of sorts, as to WHY I'm wrong.

[MillionsKNives]

You're the one who pretty much ignored what I said earlier.

 

 

 

Isn't it obvious...?

 

 

 

Again, if people have everything they need to once they hit LV55 with a new character, what is it exactly they wanna do with that LV55, once they hit the cap?

 

Complain about "not enough content" that they willingly chose to skip with that new LV55?

 

They didn't skip the content when they had the gear already waiting for their new character. They did it already, just on a different character. They still had to earn it somehow, and the time they took earning it beforehand would be the same it would take afterward. And while I can already move the mods in my armor I can't move the shell, which this change would allow.

 

And if you're really against it based on how much it shortens the gear grind for ears, relics, and implants how much time do you really think this adds to the content? Ears and implants of decent quality aren't hard to come by, most people have them already. Relics are acquired really quickly through PVP.

 

As for what they wanted to do with the character if it has all the gear already, I don't know, earn better gear? Run higher content with a different toon, do ops on the opposite faction?

 

Bioware easily provides mats to every single LV55 that completes S&V and TFB, the first time around. Again, you come around as someone who wants everything without being willing to do much to obtain it.

 

I wasn't aware that S&V and TFB gave the mats required for augment kits.

[AlienEyeTX]

And if you couldn't craft it?

 

What's stopping me from doing that?

[MillionsKNives]

What's stopping me from doing that?

 

Not having the crafting profession, not having the mats, not having the skill to scavenge said mats, take your pick.

[TUXs]

Again, if people have everything they need to once they hit LV55 with a new character, what is it exactly they wanna do with that LV55, once they hit the cap?

 

Complain about "not enough content" that they willingly chose to skip with that new LV55?

Run more Ops, join in MORE group content, aid MORE players by adding the new 55's to the pool of players (even though he's geared). The benefit of having multiple 55 toons isn't just to gear up more characters, it's to do MORE of the things people like (like Ops/FPs/PvP).

 

Starting from scratch and gearing up isn't "fun" to me. Completing quests and helping others is.

Edited July 17, 2014 by TUXs

[undiess]

So do you just not use Earpieces, Implants and Relics, or have you found a way to move them between your toons after they are bound? Because that's the issue here. It's the only end-game gear that you either need to earn on the toon that uses it, or buy from a crafter if you are satisfied with having less than top-tier gear (since top-tier 186 gear cannot be crafted). And many of us want to keep it that way.

 

And besides, why would anyone want BW to redesign Binding, when they could be developing new content instead?

 

I would think that Earpieces, implants, and relics would not be effected by this request as they are not available as BoL items (except for the rakghoul relics lvl 25/35/45). Common sense would just equate this request to effect slots that already have BoL items available so that it does NOT have an adverse effect on the game, as you're not changing BoL, just effectively adding more visual choices.

 

Thats the key for me here, is visual. I don't care how they do it, I just want more visual choices for BoL stuff.

 

There are other ideas out there, such as an appearance tab or new appearance slot (if they were able to make the Dye slot, I could see them easily making a slot that overrides the visible portion of gear with whatever is in that slot). Then, it still protects the gear structure in that you have to still earn a piece on that character, and then you can use it in an appearance slot. There really is no harm in that one. I would think it's a more easy "addition" than the other ideas.

 

tl;dr - yes of course relics/ears/implants would and should remain locked to character. Perhaps appearance slot per armor slot is a more viable approach than trying to effect every piece of gear.

[errant_knight]

I think you're going to need a bit more to back up that claim. You can already get around all modification money sinks by only using the armor you win through drops. Neglecting that, the whole legacy money sink can be ignored just by getting the gear on the character you wanted it on. How is Character A winning loot and ripping mods and using it in his own armor vs. Character B winning loot and ripping mods and using it in Character A's armor any different? Claiming that not charging Character B for transferring loot to Character A will cause inflation but Character A winning and using that same loot won't is quite speculative.

 

One Credit sink doesn't work alone, It's part of a whole. If you want to remove any one credit sink in the game you need to replace it with another. As for making the rep gear pretty much pointless and thus removing and semblance of non-monetary reward from dailies, I think they'd have to be replaced too. They were designed to add an element of fun and achievement to the grind for cash. Basically, you'd probably get further with having things removed if you also had suggestions for what to add in their place that would have the same effect.

 

That's a valid question, but I'm going to have to wait for the omg *** from work this morning wear off before my brain will work well enough to remember what I was thinking, lol.

Edited July 17, 2014 by errant_knight

[Kirazy]

I find these threads quite frankly ironic...

 

Mostly because I'm fairly sure that a significant portion of the people who'd like this change, are the exact SAME kind of people who'd complain about the lack of content, on the short- to medium-run.

 

With how ease it is to level up with Legacy gear, even if it requires a substantial credit sink depending on the revenue you obtain in-game, people are STILL NOT SATISFIED... They actually want Bioware to go the extra mile in order to further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever content they come to both retool and release.

 

I really don't get it.

 

You keep making this claim, that the people who want BOL gear to be ubiquitous and the norm (and do away with Bound) would also be those whining about no end-game content. What is the purpose of making this comparison? This is a strawman argument.

[Darth_Wicked]

You keep making this claim, that the people who want BOL gear to be ubiquitous and the norm (and do away with Bound) would also be those whining about no end-game content. What is the purpose of making this comparison? This is a strawman argument.

 

I've already addressed that...

 

Again, if people have everything they need to once they hit LV55 with a new character, what is it exactly they wanna do with that LV55, once they hit the cap?

 

Complain about "not enough content" that they willingly chose to skip with that new LV55?

 

And truth be told, no one has answered to it yet.

 

Run more Ops, join in MORE group content, aid MORE players by adding the new 55's to the pool of players (even though he's geared). The benefit of having multiple 55 toons isn't just to gear up more characters, it's to do MORE of the things people like (like Ops/FPs/PvP).

 

Starting from scratch and gearing up isn't "fun" to me. Completing quests and helping others is.

 

Last I checked, you can do that and still gear up your characters.

 

The way you talk about it, it almost makes it sound as if gearing up a character is an undividable frustration from grinding, as if, there is only grinding.

 

Again...

Run more Ops, join in MORE group content, aid MORE players by adding the new 55's to the pool of players (even though he's geared). (...) Completing quests and helping others is.

 

How is having fun doing that dividable from gearing up your characters? After all, aren't you helping others with their new LV55's? Why not help yourself in the process?

 

The mind boggles indeed.

[TUXs]

How is having fun doing that dividable from gearing up your characters? After all, aren't you helping others with their new LV55's? Why not help yourself in the process?

 

The mind boggles indeed.

Because I'm not an "alt" fan. I have one toon who I'm on 99% of the time and one toon who is nearly identical that I use to avoid lockouts. I am helping myself by doing what I enjoy, despite seldom getting ANY loot from what I do beyond comms.

[AlienEyeTX]

Not having the crafting profession, not having the mats, not having the skill to scavenge said mats, take your pick.

 

All things that I can rectify without spending credits. Train the skill and run missions, as I do now. As any new player had to do in the beginning.

[DarthDymond]

All things that I can rectify without spending credits. Train the skill and run missions, as I do now. As any new player had to do in the beginning.

The point has never been that runaway inflation would make the game literally impossible for new players, it's that it would make things bad enough that credit sinks are the lesser of two evils.

[AlienEyeTX]

The point has never been that runaway inflation would make the game literally impossible for new players, it's that it would make things bad enough that credit sinks are the lesser of two evils.

 

That point was already addressed by someone else. GSH, Casino Event, etc. They'll find ways.

[BuriDogshin]

I would think that Earpieces, implants, and relics would not be effected by this request as they are not available as BoL items (except for the rakghoul relics lvl 25/35/45). Common sense would just equate this request to effect slots that already have BoL items available so that it does NOT have an adverse effect on the game, as you're not changing BoL, just effectively adding more visual choices.

OK, that's fine. But altering how Binding works or how Legacy Storage works is probably not the best path to this.

 

Better would be a mechanism to convert empty shells to BoL at the Modification Stations. The code to do this is probably straightforward and would affect only a few code modules. A lot of this depends on the details of how the item attributes are represented in the data structures, but hopefully the developers went with a straightforward implementation. The code could limit BoL conversions by slot. And BW could have the cost be in Helixes or Certs or some other thing players could grind for, or be in CC, or both, at BW's discretion. Odds are this would be easier to do than adding dye slots was.

 

I'd personally grind quite a bit of content for a convert-to-BoL token, or would pay a months worth of CC's for it. YMMV.

[BuriDogshin]

Because I'm not an "alt" fan. I have one toon who I'm on 99% of the time and one toon who is nearly identical that I use to avoid lockouts. I am helping myself by doing what I enjoy, despite seldom getting ANY loot from what I do beyond comms.

Ah, I see, you want everything to be BoL so you can get around the lockout mechanism. This is yet another reason why BW should not make everything BoL - they put the lockout mechanism in for a reason. I am not sure what that reason is, but if they spent the time and money to implement lockouts, the presumption is that there is one.

[TUXs]

I'd personally grind quite a bit of content for a convert-to-BoL token, or would pay a months worth of CC's for it. YMMV.

This is a VERY big item on my "wish list". I'd buy them with coins, I'd grind content for them and they'd encourage me to buy crap off the GTN again...because any item that isn't BoL, isn't worth buying atm to me. This is a HUGE desire of mine!!!

[SteelPiranha]

Ah, I see, you want everything to be BoL so you can get around the lockout mechanism. This is yet another reason why BW should not make everything BoL - they put the lockout mechanism in for a reason. I am not sure what that reason is, but if they spent the time and money to implement lockouts, the presumption is that there is one.

 

But they also allow the action of circumventing the lockout mechanism so "working as intended"

[DarthDymond]

That point was already addressed by someone else. GSH, Casino Event, etc. They'll find ways.

That's fine, in fact that's basically what I said in part of my first post:

2) It would all but remove one of the biggest credit-sinks in the game (maybe they could jack up repair bills to compensate?)

 

But it sounded like you were against the existence of credit sinks at all.

[...]Also, fi no one had to pull mods from gear, how would you repair the damaged credit sink?[...]

[...]2) I've already joined the crusade against these ridiculous charges. Good riddance to them![...]

Even if [inflation] were a hurdle to new players, they would still earn stuffs through gameplay and would start making real credits at end game (at the latest). It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

All we've been saying is that credit sinks, in general, are a necessary (or at least valuable) part of the game. If they "find ways" to create equivalent credit sinks that work just as well, then that's fine, they just need to be there in some form.

Edited July 17, 2014 by DarthDymond

[dipstik]

i just wanna be able to send bound cartel equipment pieces to my alts. like a legacy module, like the dyes.

[undiess]

OK, that's fine. But altering how Binding works or how Legacy Storage works is probably not the best path to this.

 

Better would be a mechanism to convert empty shells to BoL at the Modification Stations. The code to do this is probably straightforward and would affect only a few code modules. A lot of this depends on the details of how the item attributes are represented in the data structures, but hopefully the developers went with a straightforward implementation. The code could limit BoL conversions by slot. And BW could have the cost be in Helixes or Certs or some other thing players could grind for, or be in CC, or both, at BW's discretion. Odds are this would be easier to do than adding dye slots was.

 

I'd personally grind quite a bit of content for a convert-to-BoL token, or would pay a months worth of CC's for it. YMMV.

 

Yes see I'm sensible with this, I want the availability.. the pathway. If it requires some effort that is okay. I just hate seeing the argument that it shouldn't be done due to credit sink or that it avoids something, because it's already being avoided. I have a sentinel/maurader, powertech/vanguard, and assassin/shadow where each of set of mirror classes shares gear via legacy gear; BOTH PvP and PvE. So when someone says that doing something that effects BoP is avoiding a sink or effecting something - it's already being avoided by the BoL that exists. So people need to get over it and start thinking about the most commonly accepted and simplist idea. Is it just letting the legacy storage accept BoP Armor and weapons? (i.e. not the ear/implant/relics?) Is it a modification station thing? Is it a CC thing so they can recoop the development costs via charging us for it? Is it that appearance slot idea?

 

I don't care.. It just would be awesome to have more style choice. Overall I still gravitate towards a slot approach because it doesn't effect mods or having to move things. But I would settle for any general approach to more style.

Edited July 17, 2014 by undiess