OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

[slafko]

You're not using target of target as a tank? Hell I use it on everything, but I can't imagine being able to tank without target of target up.

I only started using it three weeks ago when I got my tank a cosmetic makeover. She's so pretty now I had to have another picture of her floating about. <3

[Lord_of_Mu]

ummm... static bubble is a heal. as in... it prevents you from taking a certain amount of damage, effectively increasing your health. its not the only heal, naturally, but its one of the more effective abilities sorc healers have. I have seen it prevent as much damage as crit heal from dark infusion, except dark infusion has a long cast and doesn't always crit.

 

don't underestimate the awesome of sorc bubbles. on a priority of sorc healing - they are at the top, followed by resurgence and innervate. in that order.

 

as for spacebar? umm... relax and consider how many things could be worse? its only a few extra minutes (and yes I spacebar, but I don't have a problem with people who don't - becasue its such a minor thing. I'd rather take someone who doesn't spacebar but is otherwise a team player, versus gogogo spacebar heroes that make my life a living hell)

 

I was actually going to say something along those lines heh.

[BuriDogshin]

Had some more HM FP fun tonight with my wife's Sage heal and my Sage DPS. Gawd I hate those shackles on Cadimemu. lol. But, got a great tank twice.

 

Third time, got a just-started-tanking Shadow tank for CZ Corp Labs, a bit undergeared (153) and new to the Op, but once we knew that we completed it with minimal tanking problems - partly because of the awesome GS that was with us, which allowed me to off-heal a little, partly because we knew what to expect. Once we got past the droid in the electric pool, no tanking issues. I think the Shadow started to get in the groove as we progressed. I hope he or she had fun, so we may meet again.

Edited July 15, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[BuriDogshin]

ummm... static bubble is a heal. as in... it prevents you from taking a certain amount of damage, effectively increasing your health. ... I have seen it prevent as much damage as crit heal from dark infusion, except dark infusion has a long cast and doesn't always crit.

 

don't underestimate the awesome of sorc bubbles. on a priority of sorc healing - they are at the top, followed by resurgence and innervate. in that order.

Agreed. And they are instant (and therefore can be cast on the run) and can be spam'd, in advance, across multiple targets, although that can drain your force pretty fast. My 180/186 geared Sorc's bubbles does around 6500 in post-mitigation damage elimination. It's especially great when there is predictable raid-wide damage.

 

IME Tanks should be bubbled whenever the bubble's debuff wears off, it will almost always get used. And there is no risk of over-healing when you bubble someone (in a multi-healer situation) since the debuff prevents anyone giving the tank another bubble before it is likely to have been fully used. Non-tanks should be bubbled as the situation warrants: bubbling a known agro-whore right before the fight starts can be pretty effective.

[thewitchdoctor]

Stop trollin' pls.

 

(S)he did specify in a competent group, though. Granted, my experience (from most to least) is DPS, tank, heals, but when I do tank, if the DPS are doing their job, and the healer is doing his or her job, then mine is that much easier.

[Halinalle]

Stop trollin' pls.

 

"In competent group". That means: tank knows what to do, healer knows what to do, DPS knows what to do. They all also know what they're not supposed to do.

 

Just a small list of things what DPS can do wrong.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=671988

 

(S)he

 

He.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Halinalle

[IsmeldaLasombra]

And what about the healer, tagged for pvp, who plays DPS in HM instead of healing then go on about how the others are 3 months newbies when he is not even smart enough to wait for a sneak raise from the tank in the last boss chamber with only some pylons to destroy?

 

What about all these low life (inferior to 30K health) who come into HM and can't do the job required of them unless the other 3 are very well geared?

 

Whatever it is I still like to play tank as Assassin and find is much easier than dps. Also the waiting factor on the GF is incredible.

 

So I'm one of the tank who likes tanking and also do FP. But i really hate when people not appropriately geared come in HM or when people are not respecting their class role.

[Halinalle]

What about all these low life (inferior to 30K health) who come into HM and can't do the job required of them unless the other 3 are very well geared?

 

Level 50 HM FPs: 126

Nowhere near 30k. Not even for tanks.

 

Level 55 HM FPs: 148

30k isn't possible as DPS.

[CarpeSangrea]

Wrong.

 

The problem is people blaming the tanks for everything bad. To make matters worse, there's way too many jump-monkeys and badly skilled players that think they're good. Also, I've noticed an increase in bad attitudes - refusing to listen, drama queens, bullies, insults.

 

Take all this into account and you have your answer why there aren't any tanks in GF. Regular, casual, players get discouraged and avoid confrontation. The stubborn ones, like me, have their ignore lists full. I have three tanks, a healer and two dps on Rep side on my server and I update their ignore lists regularly.

 

It's not the tanks. It's people's attitudes and actions towards tanks.

 

This. I'll often heal pug HM's, but I categorically refuse to tank them for this very reason.

[chillshock]

Yes, and I doubt it will change. Only option is to really create the game in a way that makes tanks a bit of snowflakes.

 

Give tanks - and only tanks - something cool.

 

I know that would make people say "I wish I was a tank"... yes, that's the point.

[jedip_enguin]

What about all these low life (inferior to 30K health) who come into HM and can't do the job required of them unless the other 3 are very well geared.

 

55 HM's are doable in lvl 50 Black Hole comms gear, I know this becuase that what me and my guild were wearing when we started running them to gear up the day after rothc released.

 

At the time I had 26k(ish) hp.

[Drake_Hound]

The problem is not tanks the problem is people, especially experienced people who really think they are great.

One would expect after two years , those with the biggest mouth atleast shows some capacity or improvement.

 

Nope they still are stuck at a mediocre level in gameplay, but oh there slander and loathing has increased to epic level.

Luckily it is only a small group of people, same as on the forums.

But those small group of people causes massive disruption, well till then you can't blaim "good" Tanks/Healers/Dpsers

 

To always carry the people, basically it just the way things are.

I honestly wouldn't care if tank has 24k HP but extreme skills, if I am healing.

My call to make, but if healer feels stressed and not able to do the job, it is the healers call to make.

Sorry not healing this.

 

And about less then 30k HP lmao that is what creates the stereo type problems.

30k hp for content people had to do in 20k hp gear? This already abreviatethe general "noobishe" attitude of people.

Yes it takes longer to get trough HM, no it isn't a quick 30 min run.

Oh my god you have to play for once, and really do team work. Ah lets just make SMO please

[slafko]

"In competent group". That means: tank knows what to do, healer knows what to do, DPS knows what to do. They all also know what they're not supposed to do.

I'd argue that, in a competent group, the dps has it even easier.

[slafko]

55 HM's are doable in lvl 50 Black Hole comms gear, I know this becuase that what me and my guild were wearing when we started running them to gear up the day after rothc released.

 

At the time I had 26k(ish) hp.

Whaaaat? My shadow was in full Dread Guard back then and I don't remember having nowhere near 26k.

I could be mistaken, though. It's been well over a year since then.

[Drake_Hound]

Yes, and I doubt it will change. Only option is to really create the game in a way that makes tanks a bit of snowflakes.

 

Give tanks - and only tanks - something cool.

 

I know that would make people say "I wish I was a tank"... yes, that's the point.

 

And what does it solve?

In the end nothing, think just give tactical ops ultimate comms is a easier and beter solution.

No need for tanks healers, all dpsers.... Bad groups will wipe repeatedly.

And good groups will manage, now when I que for FP or anything with other people, I do expect some level of coorperation in gameplay, if people are not willing to coorperate.

Why do they even bother to que up!

[slafko]

And what does it solve?

In the end nothing, think just give tactical ops ultimate comms is a easier and beter solution.

You're joking, right?

[chillshock]

So, it'd be basically as it is now, with a few weeded off to tacfp ...

 

It won't change:

a) the number of tanks

b) the felt importance of tanks

[Drake_Hound]

You're joking, right?

 

No am not joking, cause basically it is what the future going to be, unless people decide to really cooperate.

They can go raiding for the more close needed heriachy, but the average customer.

Has no need for those, they just want the rewards.

[Drake_Hound]

The saying time is money, nobody is paying us ,to spent time holding other people hands in manners and ettiquette.

So rather go directly to the source of the issue the rewards.

 

The ultimate comms is what people wants, since only 150 comm caps.

Most tanks are done in 3 operations. So why should they tank?

 

Infact that is the source of the problem, once done gearing!

Why should the game be any different?

 

So best to just prepare for the future and just all dps tactical fp.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Drake_Hound

[chillshock]

I see the logic. But I think it would just leave tanks with "just run kdy for n*2 times and get the tank gear".

 

I THINK what might be interesting is something beyond gear. Like... well, yes a bit like the reward-bags wow introduced just not as... useless.

 

The least available class in solo-queue gets [big Bag Thankyou] and the second least available class gets [bag of Thankyou]:

 

• <level*1k> credits
  
• 1x Random [Dye module (binds on equip)]/[Dye module (binds on equip)]
  

The epic one additionally:

• 1x [Cost free Augmentation slot component mk-<level_adjusted> (Bound to legacy)]
  

 

Deserter Consequences: Abandoning a FP before it is finished locks you from these rewards for the rest of the day. You can still play and still get all the regular loot and comms, but the bonus is gone.

 

So at 55, if you complete an HM fp as a rare-class you get 55k credits, a free aug kit-9 and a chance for a dye module (*from the cartel packs). Might be enough to keep some tanks going for a while.

[ElQuinti]

I still do FPs with my two tanks just to allow other people to do their flashpoints too. To me, tanking is a community service (as healing is) and I'm happy to find a tank or a healer when I level another toon to do FPs.

 

I agree that it is not rewarding excepted when I receive a big "thank you" at the end of th FP (which is enough to me). My two tanks are quiet always capped so I only do FPs to have fun because I don't earn anything interesting from it.

 

If no one does, the game will die slowly (it is atm...). A new player who play his first toon (rarelly a tank) will not last for long in the game if he is not able to enjoy the full content of the game, waiting for hours in a queue system (doing tactical is not what I would call playing the game, it is not interesting @all).

 

doing a flashpoint or two sometime doesn't hurt and it could help the game a little. The thing we all want is to continue to play and enjoy the game as long as we can isn't it ?

[chillshock]

Something else would be to measure the FP experience of a player and offer a slider "tollerated experience level"

With n = number of times the dungeon has been completed - so if you have completed the FP 21 times, you can leave the slider at "only players who have completed the FP 10 times or more" and not be grouped with inexperienced ones.

 

Default setting = new players are ok, so 0.

[ new player -----------|---------------------- math.min(10, n) ]

 

Also devide the cash and final reward of the FP by 2 if set to 1-4 and by 5 if set to 5 or higher.

 

That way the players who want to breeze through another daily can do so. And only those who actually tollerate learning players get grouped with them. Might end up in longer wait times, but at least thats the players choice.

[Drox]

So at 55, if you complete an HM fp as a rare-class you get 55k credits, a free aug kit-9 and a chance for a dye module (*from the cartel packs). Might be enough to keep some tanks going for a while.

 

This wouldn't really make more people queue for pug groups. People will just queue in guild/friend GF groups and get the same rewards. It really makes the whole "Give better rewards to tanks and healers" suggestions pointless if you can bypass pug's all together in GF by having a group already before queuing.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Drox

[Halinalle]

b) the felt importance of tanks

 

What?

It has more to do with the fact that requirements to be tank are ridiculous.

[psikofunkster]

As a tank, I shall maintain my right to choose when and where I queue as a tank. For nearly two years I queued into HM FPs and pugged multiple raids as a tank. NEVER again.

 

Why?

 

 

Stupidity.

DPS believing they are tanks.

Sorc Healers thinking "Static Bubble" is actually a heal.

DPS being idiots.

DPS running ahead and pulling an extra group.

Healers going AFK.

Healers not being geared properly.

DPS not being geared properly.

DPS not knowing which stims are meant for their class.

Bioware not rewarding my patience with those people enough.

Bioware giving me alarcity and accuracy mods on my starting raid gear.

Bioware confusing newbie tanks by giving them ****, improperly stated base FP/raid gear.

Bioware forcing me to sit through 45 minutes of cutscene everytime I'm "Lucky" enough to get Black Talon.

DPS not spacebarring on Black Talon HM. (Don't use the "Never seen it before Line, its HM for christsake.)

Healers not spacebarring on Black Talon HM. (See above).

Being told by DPS (who have run ahead, pulled multiple groups etc) how to do my job as a tank, when I've been tanking longer than they've been playing most likely.

 

 

So yeah.... I'd say fix it, but I doubt its possible. Those are the reasons I typically refrain from entering group finder queue these days as a tank.

 

ok but what about the stupidity tanks commit?

 

1) Tanks staying always behind dps.

2) Tanks never using the guard for high dps.

3) Tanks using dps gear.

4) Tanks not being geared properly

 

and more...