MarsherMeow Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Well, I'm going to say outright that if you're bucking for a system that allows us to put tables on top of vases, then you're out of your mind. Heck, right now with the current system you are out of your mind for wanting to put vases on top of tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Heck, right now with the current system you are out of your mind for wanting to put vases on top of tables. They said very plainly that they'll be offering a variety of basic models. So, you can be sure that there'll be tables with vases available if that strikes your fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 It's great for a hook system, I will give it that. But overall compared to other housing in other MMOs it is mediocre. A great hook system still limits you. It would be great if you could turn it off or the hooks became just a guide line. my personal theory is that they wanted originally to do a free system with no hooks but due to some technical issues the could not do it and had to resort to hooks, which caused a delay in designing as a result which caused the pushback. Thats just my own opinion. I think hat if they could have made this without hooks they would have. Not making excuses for them, but sometimes things just won't work, not this teams fault that the previous teams before them went with this game engine and design and such. but who knows, I honestly don't see this ever becoming free placement since its already been shown and announced as hooks, but still what I am saying is that at least it won't be total crap either. Honestly though I have never seen housing in any other mmo's so I don't have much comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I wouldn't interpret it as being Free Placement since they've gone out of their way to avoid labeling it as Free Placement. And guess what? It turned out to not be Free Placement. Now, maybe you can grasp why they didn't explain the system before as a hook system and why they certainly give you any reason to believe that it was a Free Placement system. They didn't label it as anything other than "you will be able to place items as you see fit"...that's the problem with their silence...they offer such sparse information, that the few tidbits we DO get, are taken as truth. Yeah, they didn't say a word about hooks prior because they know, deep down, that the hook system is the last possible thing players wanted. UNIQUENESS is what I enjoy about housing...every freaking place will look (nearly) the same, just like your space ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsherMeow Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 They said very plainly that they'll be offering a variety of basic models. So, you can be sure that there'll be tables with vases available if that strikes your fancy. In completely pre-determined positions on the table. I can't move the vase, I can't replace the vase with another that I like without replacing the whole table.. what if I don't like the table that has the vase I like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 They said very plainly that they'll be offering a variety of basic models. So, you can be sure that there'll be tables with vases available if that strikes your fancy. That's a bigger assumption that "as you see fit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I shall reserve judgement until I can see players using it on the PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 They didn't label it as anything other than "you will be able to place items as you see fit"...that's the problem with their silence...they offer such sparse information, that the few tidbits we DO get, are taken as truth. Yeah, they didn't say a word about hooks prior because they know, deep down, that the hook system is the last possible thing players wanted. UNIQUENESS is what I enjoy about housing...every freaking place will look (nearly) the same, just like your space ship. You 'read' that as meaning Free Placement, even as they studiously avoided labeling it as anything at all. You 'saw' what you wanted to 'see.' You took it to mean what you wanted it mean even though it's very plain that his statement fits the system as it is, right now. And if you actually saw the stream, then you'd know that there's a world of customization in the system with each room full of hook placements that you can mix up, change up, and do whatever you want to with. So, you think that 'every freaking place' will look nearly the same. I bet the opposite. I look at how the players go out of their way to customize how their chars look and I'm betting that there will be 'tons' of people who go out of their way to show off their places that'll be utterly unique. What's better is that they're basing an entire new system on the fact that I'm right and you're wrong, so we'll see which one of us is right about 'that' little presumption of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluejayoo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I've seen that (or something like it) and personally I thought it looked awful and completely broke immersion. It didn't look like a house with decorations, it looked like the result of giving a mad man access to a level editor. While your statement is essentially true, what you are saying is that you justify limiting other people's creativity on the grounds that it breaks your personal sense of immersion. That seems a bit egocentric and I am not sure that is a very good position to take. After all, no one is forcing you to walk into another person's house. Edited July 3, 2014 by Bluejayoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 That's a bigger assumption that "as you see fit". That's not an assumption at all. That's a direct quote from the stream. When asked about putting pieces on top of pieces, he said 'no, but we'll have a wide variety of basic items to fit what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You 'read' that as meaning Free Placement, even as they studiously avoided labeling it as anything at all. You 'saw' what you wanted to 'see.' You took it to mean what you wanted it mean even though it's very plain that his statement fits the system as it is, right now. I didn't "read" that, the phrase "as you see fit" has a freaking meaning that predates us or Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I didn't "read" that, the phrase "as you see fit" has a freaking meaning that predates us or Bioware. And within the placement spots, you can, indeed, place the items as you see fit. You can mix up the placement within the x and y axis and even twist it about by changing the rotation. You can even swap out the hook placement so that you can put the items exactly how/where you want it. The statement 'fits' the system as it is now. So, 'as you see fit' is not a Free Placement-only related statement, now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsherMeow Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 And within the placement spots, you can, indeed, place the items as you see fit. You can mix up the placement within the x and y axis and even twist it about by changing the rotation. You can even swap out the hook placement so that you can put the items exactly how/where you want it. The statement 'fits' the system as it is now. So, 'as you see fit' is not a Free Placement-only related statement, now is it? That would be true if the person asking the question didn't directly bring up Wildstar. So in the context of comparing it to Wildstar it would mean free placement. Maybe the dev hasn't played Wildstar or seen it's housing but he didn't state that he didn't know how Wildstars housing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 And within the placement spots, you can, indeed, place the items as you see fit. You can mix up the placement within the x and y axis and even twist it about by changing the rotation. You can even swap out the hook placement so that you can put the items exactly how/where you want it. The statement 'fits' the system as it is now. So, 'as you see fit' is not a Free Placement-only related statement, now is it? No. You can't. You're not even pretending to to do anything other than argue now. As I said, the phrase used means something and has for centuries. You can't redefine it to fit this peg system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 No. You can't. You're not even pretending to to do anything other than argue now. As I said, the phrase used means something and has for centuries. You can't redefine it to fit this peg system. A standard peg system, you'd be correct. This, however, is not a standard peg system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Actually it was Jack Wood my bad. http://42gaming.com/blog/community-cantina-q-a-with-eric-musco-los-angeles-2014.html Thanks... but I don't see anywhere that they said it would be hook-less. You took their statements and inferred what you wanted to hear. Which is fine... but best not to make statements attributed to Bioware staff where they did not explicitly say something. Nothing good ever comes from that.... you just set yourself up for failed expectations at a personal level. It would be nice if you could do anything you want with our house. But you know what.. that's not going to happen here. Make peace with it or you will just make yourself over-the-top miserable over it. /2-cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) That would be true if the person asking the question didn't directly bring up Wildstar. So in the context of comparing it to Wildstar it would mean free placement. Maybe the dev hasn't played Wildstar or seen it's housing but he didn't state that he didn't know how Wildstars housing is. Again.. you are drawing biased conclusions base on what you desire. Own it. You want it, they did not say you would get it. I understand what you desire, but you are not getting it... THAT they have made clear to you and all the rest of us with the information they are unfolding to us now. Edited July 3, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 ... but best not to make statements attributed to Bioware staff where they did not explicitly say something. "you will be able to place items as you see fit" - Bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Thanks... but I don't see anywhere that they said it would be hook-less. You took their statements and inferred what you wanted to hear. Which is fine... but best not to make statements attributed to Bioware staff where they did not explicitly say something. Nothing good ever comes from that.... you just set yourself up for failed expectations at a personal level. It would be nice if you could do anything you want with our house. But you know what.. that's not going to happen here. Make peace with it or you will just make yourself over-the-top miserable over it. /2-cents yeah, not sure how what was said isn't what was offered. Given what I saw from the video you have a fairly complex system for placing items in multiple locations, I guess "hooks" isnt' a good description, more like peg board. people see what they want to see and not what it does/offers. See a hook and its "hooks" meaning stationary and limited/not customizable. I saw pegs with lots of variation on what can be placed where. will it be free form, no, is it single location and static no. As with most things, its somewhere in between and everyone is looking at the small negative and not the larger positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 "you will be able to place items as you see fit" - Bioware Obviously the * was missed on that statement with the addendum and separate clause in legalese at the bottom of the margarita glass he had in hand. It went something along the lines of, 'Within the system we designed which has a base 2x2 square tile where you can shimmy things around in such a way as to make you believe it was free form placement.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 "you will be able to place items as you see fit" - Bioware Which you can with the system that they've shown us. It's just not the system you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsherMeow Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) yeah, not sure how what was said isn't what was offered. Given what I saw from the video you have a fairly complex system for placing items in multiple locations, I guess "hooks" isnt' a good description, more like peg board. people see what they want to see and not what it does/offers. See a hook and its "hooks" meaning stationary and limited/not customizable. I saw pegs with lots of variation on what can be placed where. will it be free form, no, is it single location and static no. As with most things, its somewhere in between and everyone is looking at the small negative and not the larger positives. I don't see many positives to it. The only positive I see is ease of use for newer players. But without an option to turn it off it stifles creativity of those that want to take it further. I can't even put a vase and lamp on a table as I see fit. This is like a coloring book with my colors selected for me. You might be able to color it a bunch of different ways with the colors provided, and maybe even get a new color once in awhile but you can only have so many combinations of that. Stifling creativity in a activity that is about expressing your creativity is bad anyway you look at it. Edited July 3, 2014 by MarsherMeow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't see many positives to it. The only positive I see is ease of use for newer players. But without an option to turn it off it stifles creativity of those that want to take it further. I can't even put a vase and lamp on a table as I see fit. This is like a coloring book with my colors selected for me. You might be able to color it a bunch of different ways with the colors provided, and maybe even get a new color once in awhile but you can only have so many combinations of that. You can't turn 'off' the whole system. You're working on the mistaken assumption that you can 'turn off' the hooks. The Hooks 'are' the system. What you want to do is have the whole thing be a collection of huge 3-D hooks where you can put all manner of things in all three axis and 'that' isn't going to happen because they wanted a system that's simple and intuitive to use, but with enough depth for experienced players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I was skeptical, but after seeing the video, the hook system looks pretty good. It's got some very robust options and also simplifies things if people want to go a simpler route. Seems like the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsherMeow Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I was skeptical, but after seeing the video, the hook system looks pretty good. It's got some very robust options and also simplifies things if people want to go a simpler route. Seems like the best of both worlds. It's not a question of if people want to go the simpler route. You have to go the simpler route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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