brutall Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 To me it didn't look really good at all. The ONLY thing that really interested me with housing was free placement, it was the only reason I returned to the game. I'm not saying it's a horrible design, or a fail for everyone.....just for me. Which of course means next to nothing naturally. Just like with GSF I think they made a limiting choice that will limit the overall appeal of the feature. Compared to other new games on the market this is subpar IMO. i agree :;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 i agree :;( I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe throttle back the condemnation and /quitting UNTIL you actually have a chance to play with it... like on the upcoming PTS. Yup. It is right around the corner. Hmm... should be interesting. I almost hate jumping on the PTS to see it as some of the shiny wears off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutall Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I disagree. i know you do. but have you tried a mmo that got housing with out hooks before? its niceee if you think it you can make it! you cant do that here. i love swtor but they could have done alot better . easy fix give us the option to not use hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe throttle back the condemnation and /quitting UNTIL you actually have a chance to play with it... like on the upcoming PTS. Heh. You know me well enough by now to know that I do not make kneejerk decisions Andryah. But I am also not a spring chicken....when I see something I will not likely enjoy, I am usually correct in that assumption. I gave GSF a similar chance though I knew I would find it feel short of my personal expectations. I was correct in those assumptions, and I doubt this will be any different. That does not mean I wish for the feature, or the game as a whole to fail as a result. I personally hope I am in the minority and this feature draws in large groups of players. I just feel, like before, that is very unlikely. This was not a good decision IMO. Not by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 i know you do. but have you tried a mmo that got housing with out hooks before? its niceee if you think it you can make it! you cant do that here. i love swtor but they could have done alot better . easy fix give us the option to not use hooks. It's not that easy. How many times does it need to be said before it sinks in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpddispatch Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I like it. Not a totally free to place system, yet very close to it. A whole heck of a lot better than what I expected them to do with it to be honest. I love that my guild can buy a guild stronghold and I can give people access to modify it. I was a little displeased about the answer to the question of interaction with items inside the stronghold. The answer of...."you will be able to interact with some of the items" was a little bit of a let down. I was really hoping you click on a chair and sit down or click on a bed to lay down. However, it seems they will be like your ship where you can use / commands to sit and lay down. Overall, Im pleased. I didnt expect nearly this much capability to modify the stronghold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I disagree. And that is completely fair I hope many more disagree. Hopefully I am part of a very small minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Heh. You know me well enough by now to know that I do not make kneejerk decisions Andryah. But I am also not a spring chicken....when I see something I will not likely enjoy, I am usually correct in that assumption. I gave GSF a similar chance though I knew I would find it feel short of my personal expectations. I was correct in those assumptions, and I doubt this will be any different. That does not mean I wish for the feature, or the game as a whole to fail as a result. I personally hope I am in the minority and this feature draws in large groups of players. I just feel, like before, that is very unlikely. This was not a good decision IMO. Not by a long shot. Ah but by creating such assumptions you are creating a bias. The human brain has a effect known as confirmation Bias. The brain does not want to have its views challenged, and twists what it sees to conform to already held beliefs even in the face of overwhelming counter evidence. By establishing your assumptions your brain will, regardless of whether you consciously want to or not, twist your experience to match the already held assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutall Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 It's not that easy. How many times does it need to be said before it sinks in? but why can most mmos do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) I just feel, like before, that is very unlikely. This was not a good decision IMO. Not by a long shot. Even though they are using a "flexible" hooking system, that does not mean it's bad. Hooks in and of themselves is not bad.... it's how they are implemented that is important. There needs to be lots of them and they need to be flexible in what you can attach and how you attach. Personally, while I understand some peoples desire for a "hookless" system..... it probably creates more problems for more players then using a flexible hooking system. Not all SWTOR players are MMO veterans....and frankly, not having a hooking system would probably cause more user issues then the hooking system presented does. ---------> It's not about pleasing a minority of players that want hookless. It's about making a system that gives a lot of freedom and simple to use UI and common sense understanding. Edited July 2, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 but why can most mmos do it? Because not all MMOs use the same engine. Because there's no generic 'MMO Program' out there that MMOs use to build their games upon. Each MMO has a different engine that have different capabilities, advantages and disadvantages. And you keep saying 'Most MMOs.' Which ones are those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It's not that easy. How many times does it need to be said before it sinks in? What's not that easy....free placement? You do understand design and coding wise it is more difficulty to design a framework for hooks than it is to design free placement code with no collision, right? Not knowing the restrictions of the current engine and the funds they have to work with, this is a completely blind assumption, but going from personal experience for the game we have worked with when devs decided to go with hooks it was for one of two reasons.... 1) They felt that there needed to be restrictions to keep the overall appearance of housing appealing. 2) Current placement mechanics were used to save time and money, the same mechanics used by game designers, modified naturally. I am not aware of any other reason it would easier to code hooks instead of free placement except for example 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 the sim's uses a flexible hook system. the hooks maybe hidden to give the illusion of free placement, but they are there. last time I check, that is a pretty popular housing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Ah but by creating such assumptions you are creating a bias. The human brain has a effect known as confirmation Bias. The brain does not want to have its views challenged, and twists what it sees to conform to already held beliefs even in the face of overwhelming counter evidence. By establishing your assumptions your brain will, regardless of whether you consciously want to or not, twist your experience to match the already held assumption. I am a bit too grown for that. I will not dismiss concerns simply because I feel they may somehow magically influence my final decisions, considering something like that has not occurred in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What's not that easy....free placement? You do understand design and coding wise it is more difficulty to design a framework for hooks than it is to design free placement code with no collision, right? Not knowing the restrictions of the current engine and the funds they have to work with, this is a completely blind assumption, but going from personal experience for the game we have worked with when devs decided to go with hooks it was for one of two reasons.... 1) They felt that there needed to be restrictions to keep the overall appearance of housing appealing. 2) Current placement mechanics were used to save time and money, the same mechanics used by game designers, modified naturally. I am not aware of any other reason it would easier to code hooks instead of free placement except for example 2. They stated very simply and clearly that they had to balance creative desires with a simplicity of use and ease of use for all players. If that doesn't satisfy, then I don't know what to tell you expect to just deal with it one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutall Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Because not all MMOs use the same engine. Because there's no generic 'MMO Program' out there that MMOs use to build their games upon. Each MMO has a different engine that have different capabilities, advantages and disadvantages. And you keep saying 'Most MMOs.' Which ones are those? wildstar got no hooks rift got no hooks Archage got no hooks real reborn is not going to have hooks EQ next is not going to have hooks swg did not have hooks lotro and swtor got hooks am not saying it was all bad, it was alot bigger then i expected but they gave us the reason why it was no hooks. they say it will be messy but why not give us the option ? Edited July 2, 2014 by brutall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I am a bit too grown for that. I will not dismiss concerns simply because I feel they may somehow magically influence my final decisions, considering something like that has not occurred in 20 years. LOL dude confirmation bias is built into the human brain. You don't outgrow it. It affects every perception you have. The fact that you seem to think you are above it is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 wildstar got no hooks rift got no hooks Archage got no hooks real reborn is not going to have hooks EQ next is not going to have hooks swg did not have hooks lotro and swtor got hooks am not saying it was all bad, it was alot bigger then i expected but they gave us the reason why it was no hooks. they say it will be messy but why not give us the option ? Never heard of two of those, SWG is dead, EQ Next isn't even out yet, and lol at mentioning Wildcraft. Of those, the only one that matters is Rift because of how much effort they put into their housing. If that's the 'most' that you're talking about, then lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Even though they are using a "flexible" hooking system, that does not mean it's bad. I agree. Hooks in and of themselves is not bad.... it's how they are implemented that is important. There needs to be lots of them and they need to be flexible in what you can attach and how you attach. I disagree, only in so far as the 4 different hook systems I have seen implemented were actually bad IMO. It is possible that this system is completely new, but based on appearance it does not appear to be so...naturally I will see. One could assume this is similar to the LotRO system, which is generally considered a bad system....even for LotRO players it seems. Personally, while I understand some peoples desire for a "hookless" system..... it probably creates more problems for more players then using a flexible hooking system. Not all SWTOR players are MMO veterans....and frankly, not having a hooking system would probably cause more user issues then the hooking system presented does. Fair enough. ---------> It's not about pleasing a minority of players that want hookless. It's about making a system that gives a lot of freedom and simply to use UI and common sense understanding. ...assuming they are a minority, which would be fantastic if that is the case. I personally expect that is not the case, much in the same way that it was not the case with GSF. But I am the first to hope I am wrong...this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) LOL dude confirmation bias is built into the human brain. You don't outgrow it. It affects every perception you have. The fact that you seem to think you are above it is laughable. No, it is not, and any contentions to the contrary are ludicrous. A set of experiments in the 60s is the only basis for this unproven view. One can say that there are situations where myside bias, belief perseverance, illusory correlation or attitude polarization may apply, what one can not say is that any of them are absolutes or "built in to the brain". One could say that multiple experiments have shown that when a person SEEKS information bias tends to be prevalent, but only in that case. All other contentions are unproven at this point. What is laughable is your obsession with clinging to an unproven theory to try and control opinions, which is, btw, simply mine. One you are not going to change. I decide how I feel about anything, period. Edited July 2, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I watched the stream and even though it was not like something I had in SWG it looks very good in my opinion. Sure some people would like free placement but there are a lot of individuals I know that would have been leary of having that system as they have never had to decorate before. This at least makes it easier for people to go in and decorate very easily. I think it will be something good and we also are able to sit in the chairs and couches which is another plus considering for the most part you can not do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ...assuming they are a minority, which would be fantastic if that is the case. I personally expect that is not the case, much in the same way that it was not the case with GSF. But I am the first to hope I am wrong...this time. You keep saying that. I'm curious where you get the information that GSF was not well recieved. And what specifically was "wrong" with it? I've seen complaints about it not being PvE. But that wasn't exactly massive complaints. I've seen complaints about it not being joystick enabled. That was an even smaller group. And then there's the PvP'ers that don't like it because, you know, it takes skill instead of just buttonmashing But overall, GSF was well recieved and massively popular when it was launched. It's still popular with a core group of players (about the same number as PvP players on my server anyway) and it seems alot of players still use it to bolster their leveling experience by playing that instead of sidequests or PvP to keep their level on-par with the class quests. So I don't get where you come from when saying that GSF was a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebruixe Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 So I read the preview for the first time. I can't believe how cool it looks. This actually seems...promising. It makes SWTOR in general seem like it has a promising future. The developers are adding creative new elements to the game. Wow. The preview left me feeling optimistic. After receiving something as cool as this, I don't understand why people would complain about some minor game mechanic like the "hooks"...how spoiled and ungrateful is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) This at least makes it easier for people to go in and decorate very easily. I think it will be something good and we also are able to sit in the chairs and couches which is another plus considering for the most part you can not do that now. Two good points I think. I personally think it is easier to use hooks, and certainly being able to sit in chairs is a plus. I would only point out the folly of excitement about something that reaches beyond limited expectations, like sitting in chairs. Edited July 2, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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