Death_By_Smiley Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Watch out, the devs are apparently just making these threads disappear now. They appear to be in full on damage control mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Good the forums could use some better moderation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crubel Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This has BWs problem from the get go... They try so hard not to "overhype" they fail to really excite. Someone up the chain was really really scarred by that Mythic WHO over-promising and under-delivering debacle, but this now is arguably just as bad, if not worse. You look at other MMOs and they have 3 course dinner menus laid out while we live hand to mouth and it's getting so foggy we don't even see what's in the spoon till it's about to enter the mouth. hth can there be more info out on wow garrisons when they're slated for december lol and strongholds are like 8 weeks away. Agreed. Without the excitement, customer retention can be negatively impacted. I have a guildmate who just left the game due to this. Once someone leaves, it is fairly common for it to cause a domino effect because MMOs are very impacted by social bonds that people have. A lot of people leave because their friends leave. I'm not claiming that better "excitement" based on news would not have prevented the first group of friends in my example to not leave, but it doesn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) We're reaching a point where, by the time Galactic Strongholds "officially" hits, over a full year will have gone by without a significant update, concerning new operations, daily areas or flashpoints outside tactical ones... And you claim that people are locusts for assuming some information is in order? Truly unbelievable the kind of stuff you read in these forums nowadays. Well, for me, it is about 2.5 years since a "significant content" update, and I'm doing just fine with the information they have thus provided, though it is information on stuff that I don't consider to be content in the slightest. I am not claiming that people are locusts for wanting information. They are locusts for how quickly they desire to consume said content and then just as quick to complain about the lack of content in a game. Information has already been provided. Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. Agreed. Without the excitement, customer retention can be negatively impacted. I have a guildmate who just left the game due to this. Once someone leaves, it is fairly common for it to cause a domino effect because MMOs are very impacted by social bonds that people have. A lot of people leave because their friends leave. I'm not claiming that better "excitement" based on news would not have prevented the first group of friends in my example to not leave, but it doesn't hurt either. And with Hype and Excitement, we have the disaster that was the launch of SWTOR, and the immediate aftermath. It is abundantly clear that the gaming community is incapable of managing its own expectations when it comes to the release of a game and future content. As such, the lack of hype and excitement is a natural result. Edited June 25, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Information has already been provided. Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. You must have a keen business savvy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Well, for me, it is about 2.5 years since a "significant content" update, and I'm doing just fine with the information they have thus provided, though it is information on stuff that I don't consider to be content in the slightest. I am not claiming that people are locusts for wanting information. They are locusts for how quickly they desire to consume said content and then just as quick to complain about the lack of content in a game. Information has already been provided. Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. Maybe that wasn't your objective but... Couldn't have said it better myself. Despite the fact that there has been no new content to speak of since launch, I am still playing and enjoying the game with two subbed accounts. I would much rather the devs keep deving the game instead of wasting time posting stuff on the web or on the forums just to satisfy the ADHD content locusts of the gaming community. You sure did. Also, I didn't really know that a developer communicating with the player base is akin to "wasting time posting stuff" but then again, you learn something new everyday. EDIT: And surely you're confused and this is why this thread exists: No information at all has been provided. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) You must have a keen business savvy. Indeed I do, but there's no need to bore everyone here with the decades long details, nor derail the thread in such a manner. And surely you're confused and this is why this thread exists: No information at all has been provided. REALLY!? So those recent developer blogs, roadmaps, and GSH information are all figments of my imagination. Thanks for clearing that up - I think I need to increase my medication dosage in that case. Edited June 25, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) REALLY!? So those recent developer blogs, roadmaps, and GSH information are all figments of my imagination. Thanks for clearing that up - I think I need to increase my medication dosage in that case. You're trying too hard. Namely by completely IGNORING what I said earlier, not to mention the OP. I'll quote it... We're reaching a point where, by the time Galactic Strongholds "officially" hits, over a full year will have gone by without a significant update, concerning new operations, daily areas or flashpoints outside tactical ones... And you claim that people are locusts for assuming some information is in order? Truly unbelievable the kind of stuff you read in these forums nowadays. - When can we expect an expansion: New Planet(s)(and I dont mean like CZ-198 Daily Area), New Operation(s) (we are working on 8 months since release of DF/DP and not even a hint at when a new end game operation will be released, end games subbers are dropping like, well dropping like uninterested players on shadowlands, multiple end game guilds have outright dissolved or quit over last 6 months. - Can we ever expect an extension to individual class or player story - When will we get a new playable race As neat as I think it will be, I could care less about Flagships and Stronholds as I dont see how thats going to occupy my time for more than a week. or two of decorating and "ooo thats new" Im in the search for other games to occupy my time and finding less and less motiviation to log into swtor outside of my 2 operation nights..and even that is becoming harder and harder. Motivation me devs, customer retention, do eeeeeeeet Kindly point out WHEN or WHERE they have provided information concerning THAT. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crubel Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Maybe that wasn't your objective but... Also, I didn't really know that a developer communicating with the player base is akin to "wasting time posting stuff" but then again, you learn something new everyday. Agreed. Playing other mmos can help realize how incredibly silent the Bioware team has been lately. I guess if someone has only played SWTOR or a few mmos where devs have had bad communication, than I guess they wouldn't no better. After playing PlanetSide 2 where the devs have a detailed road map for a year out, or Wildstar where devs post to the forums constantly, you realize there is little communication going on here. I don't blame the community coordination team, as I'm sure someone higher is muzzling them. The problem is whoever is high up and calling the shots saying not to release anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) You're trying too hard. Namely by completely IGNORING what I said earlier, not to mention the OP. I'll quote it... Kindly point out WHEN or WHERE they have provided information concerning THAT. Not ignoring. Simply nitpicking on the type of information being released - that is SOP after all, isn't it? You see, communication is plentiful when one simply looks for it. The only thing I am interested in out of all that is listed are class stories. They already said on multiple occasions in the past that there are no current plans to extend the individual class stories. While I find that disappointing, and have made such known (and will continue to do so as the opportunity arises), it still does not affect my current enjoyment of the game nor the two subscriptions I am paying for. I have no need for them to continually reiterate the point already made. Obviously, if those interested in the other aspects mentioned have yet to find the information they desire, then they either need to dig a bit deeper into the information that has been provided in the past, or they simply need to wait until there is something to actually report on that front. Again, I see no need to reiterate the phrase "we are working on it" or the word "soon" just to satisfy the information locusts (is that better?). Enjoy the game for the content it offers now, and for the content we already know is coming. If one can't do that, then one needs to re-examine one's priorities and expectations. Agreed. Playing other mmos can help realize how incredibly silent the Bioware team has been lately. I guess if someone has only played SWTOR or a few mmos where devs have had bad communication, than I guess they wouldn't no better. After playing PlanetSide 2 where the devs have a detailed road map for a year out, or Wildstar where devs post to the forums constantly, you realize there is little communication going on here. ESO was worse. Much, much worse. And it has been nearly three months since the mod for the official SimCity Facebook page posted anything. Communication as a quantitative object is subjective - as I have been pointing out. There have been 14 yellow posts in the last two days, by my reckoning. Certainly not as many as on other occasions, but definitely not silent. Not to mention the weekly livestreams. Seems to me there isn't as much silence as players delude themselves into thinking there is. Is it as much as Carbine or ArenaNet? No, but then again, we are talking about BioWare. BioWare is a different development studio from Carbine, ArenaNet, Blizzard, CCP, SquareEnix, Trion, etc. etc. etc. Carbine's communication cadence is for Carbine. BioWare's is for BioWare. Edited June 25, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Perhaps they're saving stuff for a big info drop that's going to BLOW OUR MINDS!!11!! Or maybe they literally have nothing to tell us. Either way, I'm sure when they want us to know something, they'll tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Perhaps they're saving stuff for a big info drop that's going to BLOW OUR MINDS!!11!! Or maybe they literally have nothing to tell us. Either way, I'm sure when they want us to know something, they'll tell us. Indeed. Which gets back to the point I made in an earlier post: Information has already been provided. Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. Again, just because it is not the information one is looking for does not mean that communication and information is lacking. Edited June 25, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Information has already been provided. Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. Why are you objecting to that segment of the player base voicing their opinion? Bioware is free to listen to it or ignore it as they wish. Some of us are simply saying: "From 2012-2013 I really liked what you guys were doing. It seems like 2014 has slowed way down. What's the deal?" There absolutely nothing wrong with expressing this viewpoint. Why must you argue against it? Edited June 25, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySix Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Races that would be interesting to play: DiathimKillikBarabelAnacondan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crubel Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not BioWare's fault that a segment of the playerbase feels that the current info and cadence doesn't meet their demands. I speak for myself only of course, but the issue I have is that Bioware stated last year they wanted a faster cadence to getting more content out. It felt they started out strong, but once GSF early access came out the faster cadence they said they would have seemed to slow down quite a bit. I'm sure they didn't want to slow down and I have no idea why they did. I don't think you are wrong by trying to defend them, I'm just in the boat where I want to say "You guys said you would be faster which was awesome, but this hasn't really worked out for you guys. What gives?" In fairness, they did come out and say that they had to slow things down, but I think a lot of the playerbase is holding on to "You guys said you would be faster, and we want to hold you to what you said." Hearing things are getting pushed back is tough, and it raises questions. It is even tougher when you feel (right or wrong) that you are getting the silent treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Races that would be interesting to play: DiathimKillikBarabelAnacondan lol this has to be the first time I have ever heard someone suggest killik as a playable race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I speak for myself only of course, but the issue I have is that Bioware stated last year they wanted a faster cadence to getting more content out. It felt they started out strong, but once GSF early access came out the faster cadence they said they would have seemed to slow down quite a bit. I'm sure they didn't want to slow down and I have no idea why they did. I don't think you are wrong by trying to defend them, I'm just in the boat where I want to say "You guys said you would be faster which was awesome, but this hasn't really worked out for you guys. What gives?" In fairness, they did come out and say that they had to slow things down, but I think a lot of the playerbase is holding on to "You guys said you would be faster, and we want to hold you to what you said." Hearing things are getting pushed back is tough, and it raises questions. It is even tougher when you feel (right or wrong) that you are getting the silent treatment. to be fair they did not slow down and have kept up with the promised content updates. players just don't seem to want to include them as "content". the biggest slip was 2.8 removing the new class and pushing back GSH but they did add the tatooine strong hold and gave subs extra rooms and cartel coins so im ok with waiting 2 more months 12/13 2.5 GSF early access 2/14 2.6 GSF full with new ships, map, and kuat tactical flashpoint 4/14 2.7 invasion with 2 tactical flash points and beginning of new story arch 6/14 2.8 spoils of war casino not to mention balance updates, pvp rewards, bonus rewards, and events during the lack of content leading up to GSH and announcements for what they have planned for the end of the year / early next year Edited June 25, 2014 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Not ignoring. Simply nitpicking on the type of information being released - that is SOP after all, isn't it? You see, communication is plentiful when one simply looks for it. The only thing I am interested in out of all that is listed are class stories. They already said on multiple occasions in the past that there are no current plans to extend the individual class stories. Again, this is beyond hilarious. Hell, not even hilarious begins to describe it. People, you read here first: If you have somehow an issue with this game going for a full year without a particular kind of content and you seek info about it, you're obviously nitpicking... You are apparently NOT entitled to keep asking for information about i either, since that makes you a Locust. Bioware also communicating with the player base extensively is akin to them "wasting their time" as well. Thus spoke TravelersWay. While I find that disappointing, and have made such known (and will continue to do so as the opportunity arises), it still does not affect my current enjoyment of the game nor the two subscriptions I am paying for. I have no need for them to continually reiterate the point already made. Obviously, if those interested in the other aspects mentioned have yet to find the information they desire, then they either need to dig a bit deeper into the information that has been provided in the past, or they simply need to wait until there is something to actually report on that front. Again, I see no need to reiterate the phrase "we are working on it" or the word "soon" just to satisfy the information locusts (is that better?). In other words, assuming it doesn't affect you, it shouldn't affect other people either. Absolutely brilliant yet again. Enjoy the game for the content it offers now, and for the content we already know is coming. If one can't do that, then one needs to re-examine one's priorities and expectations. Last I checked, no one asked you for advice. People are free to both voice their concerns and ask for more information at will, when they're not satisfied. Simple as that. You are entirely free to IGNORE this thread altogether, if you feel it doesn't cater to that which you seek. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Why are you objecting to that segment of the player base voicing their opinion? Bioware is free to listen to it or ignore it as they wish. Some of us are simply saying: "From 2012-2013 I really liked what you guys were doing. It seems like 2014 has slowed way down. What's the deal?" There absolutely nothing wrong with expressing this viewpoint. Why must you argue against it? I speak for myself only of course, but the issue I have is that Bioware stated last year they wanted a faster cadence to getting more content out. It felt they started out strong, but once GSF early access came out the faster cadence they said they would have seemed to slow down quite a bit. I'm sure they didn't want to slow down and I have no idea why they did. I don't think you are wrong by trying to defend them, I'm just in the boat where I want to say "You guys said you would be faster which was awesome, but this hasn't really worked out for you guys. What gives?" In fairness, they did come out and say that they had to slow things down, but I think a lot of the playerbase is holding on to "You guys said you would be faster, and we want to hold you to what you said." Hearing things are getting pushed back is tough, and it raises questions. It is even tougher when you feel (right or wrong) that you are getting the silent treatment. I am not necessarily arguing against the expression of the viewpoint, but I am taking contention with the hyperbolic statements that BioWare is remaining silent or not providing any information to us. As a matter of fact, over the past 2.5 years, communication with BioWare has never been better at his point (and with Pokket coming on board, I am sure it will only get better). If someone wants to complain about the lack of brand new Operations, Flashpoints (as I recall, we just got two new Flashpoints), or Warzones (as I recall, we got one new Warzone) and the lack of communication regarding future plans of those specific points, that is fine so long as the asininity of "lack of communication" or "silence" is left out of the equation, because the facts show anything but. What I am (facetiously) pointing out in my posts is this nonsense that players are nitpicking on the information and content they want. I play primarily for the individual class stories. Content for me has been lacking since the game's launch, but I have not once complained about he lack of information or communication from BioWare simply because my main enjoyment of the game is getting ignored. That is because communication and information has increased over time, and plenty of new content has also been added. It may not be the information or content I seek, but I don't deny its existence. There has been plenty of content released for the game in the last 2.5 years. There has been a substantial increase in communication and information on future plans from the dev team in that time over what we had before. I don't care how other games or other dev companies do it. I am here as a BioWare customer playing SWTOR. Thus far, aside from the disappointing news about individual class stories, I find the content cadence, the type of content, and the communication from the dev team adequate and within "normal standards" for the genre. TBH I would much rather the devs remain silent on content until they can reasonably be assured via their internal systems that whatever information they impart will be what we get. Again, the mismanaged expectations of a playerbase has burned more than one dev on more than one occasion when they let the "hype" and "excitement" get the better of them and let something slip that couldn't actually come to fruition as either they nor the playerbase could have imagined. <snip> Glad I could oblige! Just following the standard protocol as previously established by the SWTOR community for these forums. Edited June 25, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 TBH I would much rather the devs remain silent on content until they can reasonably be assured via their internal systems that whatever information they impart will be what we get You are certainly getting your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I am not necessarily arguing against the expression of the viewpoint, but I am taking contention with the hyperbolic statements. Hyperbole is the norm for legit complainers, and of course trolls, in Internet forums. Eventually you learn to reach for your popcorn before the reply button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Responding to TravelersWay: Last I checked, no one asked you for advice. TravelersWay, can I please have some more of your advice? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Here's the thing... I understand their caution in releasing info. I've defended (or at least explained) it many times on these very forums. However, we live in a world where more companies are opting for transparency. They absolutely could talk about their hopes and dreams for the game as long as they set expectations appropriately, which they don't seem to be able to do. Had they communicated better in the beginning, we wouldn't have this mess now. Of course, they could correct things. It would be challenging, but any marketing/PR team worth their salt could handle it. There's a lot of information and openness on the internet. For a game that is based on and relies on the internet and gaming communities... for them to be so closed is just a little startling. In short, they need to step up their game. Is this your first MMO, because you seem to be pretty naive on how Dev to Player communication tends to happen, do to players tendency to massively over react to anything and everything. Almost all of them are very tight lipped about upcoming content until its all as close to set in stone as they can be. In short there is no openness because the players equate openness in communication to promises that go unfulfilled. That means the players make it so that the only way they can't break their promises is to never talk about anything that isn't complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Hyperbole is the norm for legit complainers, and of course trolls, in Internet forums. Eventually you learn to reach for your popcorn before the reply button. The reply button is my popcorn! Responding to TravelersWay: TravelersWay, can I please have some more of your advice? Thanks! Absolutely, always open for business! How's this: "If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone." Edited June 26, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The reply button is my popcorn! "If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone." Words to live by! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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