WTH Embargoing the Star Cluster pack in 2.8.1???

[Andryah]

Where is this loot table information? I'm just curious.

 

Inside the server somewhere. Almost all MMOs work their random drops by applying a loot table (which is how the devs establish base_drop-rarity) in conjunction with their native random number subroutines.

 

If you are asking for what the concerns about this pack are based on ------> wide observation from players in two ways in the case of this pack:

 

1) the pack buyers... who are noticing that legs/boots are dropping at somewhere between 10-20 times more often for the same armor set as chests/gloves AND wrists/waist/helm.

 

2) GTN buyers... who are noticing that legs/boots are listing at somewhere between 10-20 times more often for the same armor set as chests/gloves AND wrists/waist/helm.

 

Early on, when myself and Reno first posted our concerns in the Bug Report forum, asking for clarification, I personally believed that somebody has simply made a mistake with the loot tables ...... ie: some items within a set appearing to be 10x more rare = somebody messed up a decimal point in the table on some of the line items. It's the sort of simple mistake that could escape internal testing and make it live. So I chalked it up to a simple mistake by someone responsible for the loot tables. But then they came back and said -----> deliberate, working as intended, but we will pull the pack on the next patch (2.8.1).

Edited June 23, 2014 by Andryah

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Inside the server somewhere. Almost all MMOs work their random drops by applying a loot table (which is how the devs establish base_drop-rarity) in conjunction with their native random number subroutines.

 

If you are asking for what the concerns about this pack are based on ------> wide observation from players in two ways in the case of this pack:

 

1) the pack buyers... who are noticing that legs/boots are dropping at somewhere between 10-20 times more often for the same armor set as chests/gloves AND wrists/waist/helm.

 

2) GTN buyers... who are noticing that legs/boots are listing at somewhere between 10-20 times more often for the same armor set as chests/gloves AND wrists/waist/helm.

 

Early on, when myself and Reno first posted our concerns in the Bug Report forum, asking for clarification, I personally believed that somebody has simply made a mistake with the loot tables ...... ie: some items within a set appearing to be 10x more rare = somebody messed up a decimal point in the table on some of the line items. It's the sort of simple mistake that could escape internal testing and make it live. So I chalked it up to a simple mistake by someone responsible for the loot tables. But then they came back and said -----> deliberate, working as intended, bu we will pull the pack on the next patch (2.8.1).

 

I spent over $600 on the Shipment 1 crates and got plenty of Revan's upper/lower robes.....but no mask or gloves. I did get the belt on one of the last packs I opened. Was I wronged?

Mistake or no mistake I don't see why people are so upset over this. You are never guaranteed anything just because you open X amount of packs. Your theory makes sense, but it's only a theory until it's confirmed.

[NightEngine]

I spent over $600 on the Shipment 1 crates and got plenty of Revan's upper/lower robes.....but no mask or gloves.

 

Mother of Christ... I thought resolving to buy a hypercrate per paycheck was spending a lot of money.

 

Do you do that for each new hypercrate?

[Lyshar]

My understanding is that rarities and collections costs will be more in line with previous packs.

 

-eric

The current pack can be seen as a previous pack once the next is released.

I checked in with the CM team and it sounds like in general you will see both rarities and collections costs be a bit more expected in the Club Vertica pack!

 

-eric

A bit more expected, but with the way the last pack was handled do people really expect anything other than that? Or more importantly, do they expect us to expect to be given the same treatment in costs and odds and customer support?

 

I know there will be people jumping to defend them, and maybe they really do clean up. But how long will it last, will the next pack after this next one still be what people want? What about the pack after that? How long until they'll test the waters again?

 

It's not the first time they messed around, but it seems many may already have forgotten enough to let it happen again. Others haven't and that's why this thread turned out the way it did. I'm actually still waiting on last year's subscriber appreciation, which they so over-hyped and then forgot themselves a few times over at least.

 

Passing on the next pack, I suggest a lot of people do, can't trust what will be inside. The shipment after that.... be really really careful if you want to buy. It's the only way to show them you won't stand for it as they don't even really read what people are posting.

[NightEngine]

You - like others - are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. Your indignation is misdirected. I understand that you feel entitled to being treated only just exactly how you want to be treated, but that's not how the world works. Especially since Bioware has a 'monopoly' on Star Wars MMOs. You pay for the ride they take you on. If you don't like it, tough, you're not going to find the experience anywhere else.

 

In another thread, I elaborated why Bioware did nothing wrong and wasn't pulling a fast one on anybody: if you allowed yourself to become less-than-vigilant and didn't expect a for-profit organization to try to make more money, then you are either insane or naive. The onus is always on the customer when spending money. Worse, people who were apparently super loyal to Bioware didn't acknowledge the notion that, ostensibly at least, that hike in CC could have been related to pushing more/new content in future. That Bioware is bothering to run damage control at all is a good sign. The whole 'scandal' is a net positive.

 

Normally, I would be the last person on earth to defend EA or Bioware, take that as you will (as also evidenced in other threads I have a dislike for both companies - EA for their business model and Bioware for their storytelling).

 

Your calls to the public to boycott packs are unfortunately meaningless because the majority of the player base doesn't even browse the forum and the tiny slice of the population that does scarcely pays their bills alone.

[Lyshar]

You - like others - are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. Your indignation is misdirected. I understand that you feel entitled to being treated only just exactly how you want to be treated, but that's not how the world works. Especially since Bioware has a 'monopoly' on Star Wars MMOs. You pay for the ride they take you on. If you don't like it, tough, you're not going to find the experience anywhere else.

 

In another thread, I elaborated why Bioware did nothing wrong and wasn't pulling a fast one on anybody: if you allowed yourself to become less-than-vigilant and didn't expect a for-profit organization to try to make more money, then you are either insane or naive. The onus is always on the customer when spending money. Worse, people who were apparently super loyal to Bioware didn't acknowledge the notion that, ostensibly at least, that hike in CC could have been related to pushing more/new content in future. That Bioware is bothering to run damage control at all is a good sign. The whole 'scandal' is a net positive.

 

Normally, I would be the last person on earth to defend EA or Bioware, take that as you will (as also evidenced in other threads I have a dislike for both companies - EA for their business model and Bioware for their storytelling).

 

Your calls to the public to boycott packs are unfortunately meaningless because the majority of the player base doesn't even browse the forum and the tiny slice of the population that does scarcely pays their bills alone.

 

The only entitled part from me in that post was about the off topic example, where were were promised and not delivered, they didn't even try! But they felt they needed to make that promise due to cartel market related stuff.

 

I didn't get the pack, I was going to closer to the end, but after reading what they did I choose not to. Other people did buy them and got seriously disappointed because of extreme unannounced changes, debatable if accidental or purposely to some degree, but they say on purpose so we can just go with that.

 

There are a large number of people upset with these tests, they have that right to be, and you have the right not to agree with them. Does BW/EA have to compensate? No, they don't, but they have the option to try.

They don't have to, they already have people's money, what more do they want? Right, more money of the next pack, and that's where the players get the choice.

 

Bioware makes promises to make future packs better, that's nice and all. Personally I'm saying I don't think their word is worth that much right now, which is again the aforementioned example. It's up to BW to prove their word is worth it, or they can choose not to care.

 

It's the people's choice how to respond. Do they trust the next will be better or do they fear it'll be even worse if we let them? I don't think they changed anything about the next pack, it may be different, but it's probably got it's own tests embedded.

 

So I'm saying I'm not getting the next one and the ones after that not likely either, I'm voicing it in the hope to get others on the same page so BW & EA can see an even bigger drop in sales. It's not to kill the game or company, it's to call on the consumer power, if people don't buy they have to change their game, if we lay down and take it, the next time it'll be worse.

 

If you don't have a problem then you just go ahead and buy, I won't stop you and I won't hold it against you.

 

And damage control is good, but the community team has been severely understaffed and uninformed from what I can tell, only heard of more staff cutting when they were already too low to keep up. It feels as too little too late, not needing to be the fault of people have have to talk. It does however mean communication beforehand becomes even more important for damage control. The current amount of damage control won't do much at all.

 

If they had announced it beforehand people would still be outraged, but then it would have been easy to say that it was common knowledge that things would be different for testing. It would probably have not grown into this big of a deal. Of course that means it would either have to be a news item or better yet part of the patch notes (which would also be the easiest and less intrusive of ways), anything less would easily have been missed.

[Prototypemind]

Your calls to the public to boycott packs are unfortunately meaningless because the majority of the player base doesn't even browse the forum and the tiny slice of the population that does scarcely pays their bills alone.

 

15,000 views of this thread, so I'd say more than a few have taken notice of it. If 50 of those people don't buy CCs for the the next Hypercrate, it's noticeable. There are multiple threads on this, and people in-game made aware of it by friends. If BW weren't concerned because this is just the forums, they wouldn't have responded via Eric.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

They probably didn't realize they needed your permission. I'm sure they'll consult with you more in the future.

 

I'm curious...where have you found these "normal" drop rates published? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

I love how she completely ignores your post. Goes to show you a lot of what she posts is actually opinionated insinuated as being facts.

[BuriDogshin]

15,000 views of this thread

That's perhaps 300 views by each of 50 viewers, right? Or maybe one crazy person using a refresh macro over the course of a few days ... point is, views says nothing about how many unique people read the thread.

[TUXs]

I love how she completely ignores your post. Goes to show you a lot of what she posts is actually opinionated insinuated as being facts.

I believe I'm being /ignore'd, but it's all good. Nothing I say is ever meant to be personal or insulting..../ignore'ing someone is.

[LordArtemis]

3) It's not that they made the change I object to.. it's that they made it, BUT....did not communicate it in the patch notes (being a material change to how packs work), and when we asked if it was a bug... they waffled around in their responses and settled on "working as intended.. but oh by the way.. we will embargo that pack on patch 2.8.1 (the same patch they earlier said they would fix it).

 

This is my issue as well. It's not how the pack is set up, or the idea that it may or may not be more opportunistic than other packs. I give Bioware a pass on almost any opportunity to earn a profit.

 

My issue, and it seems to be a common one to me, is that they did not release this info before releasing the pack. At the VERY LEAST they should have informed the playerbase of the differences that this pack had with prior packs prior to it's release.

 

The differences obviously inflamed a good portion of players, and that much should have been obvious. To me this was a silly mistake that could have been easily tempered.

 

Sure, some folks would still be a bit ruffled at the packs setup, but IMO nowhere near the amount that are upset at present....and in my eyes rightly so.

 

I do not care for bad PR moves that can be easily prevented.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

This is my issue as well. It's not how the pack is set up, or the idea that it may or may not be more opportunistic than other packs. I give Bioware a pass on almost any opportunity to earn a profit.

 

My issue, and it seems to be a common one to me, is that they did not release this info before releasing the pack. At the VERY LEAST they should have informed the playerbase of the differences that this pack had with prior packs prior to it's release.

 

The differences obviously inflamed a good portion of players, and that much should have been obvious. To me this was a silly mistake that could have been easily tempered.

 

Sure, some folks would still be a bit ruffled at the packs setup, but IMO nowhere near the amount that are upset at present....and in my eyes rightly so.

 

I do not care for bad PR moves that can be easily prevented.

 

Yes, they should put a "This Hypercrate contains "X" chest piece, "X" mount, "X" emote......this way no one gets mad

[LordArtemis]

Yes, they should put a "This Hypercrate contains "X" chest piece, "X" mount, "X" emote......this way no one gets mad

 

Exactly. I don't understand why it is such an issue to simply openly list the unlock costs for each level of rarity, and to clearly state how rare each possible item is in the pack....as well as the amount of time the pack is likely available and whether or not reputation is included.

 

They simply need to be more open about what each pack has and what costs are involved.

 

Other than that, IMO, they can do what they wish. Most folks would accept any changes as long as they clearly announce those changes IMO.

 

Also, you lose 5000 intranetz points for using the dreaded "rolleyes" emote.

Edited June 24, 2014 by LordArtemis

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Exactly. I don't understand why it is such an issue to simply openly list the unlock costs for each level of rarity, and to clearly state how rare each possible item is in the pack....as well as the amount of time the pack is likely available and whether or not reputation is included.

 

They simply need to be more open about what each pack has and what costs are involved.

 

Other than that, IMO, they can do what they wish. Most folks would accept any changes as long as they clearly announce those changes IMO.

 

Also, you lose 5000 intranetz points for using the dreaded "rolleyes" emote.

 

I was being sarcastic but it's not a bad idea. I remember getting ripped apart a year ago when I voiced my concerns about Hypercrates (by some of the people who are upset over this at the moment). Funny thing is that I've had better luck with these packs than the previous ones. Go figure.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Yes, they should put a "This Hypercrate contains "X" chest piece, "X" mount, "X" emote......this way no one gets mad

 

No, they should of announced that the collections unlock prices had changed for this pack.

 

They of course did not, as they know full well it would of impacted if only a little, on their revenue.

 

Exploit these morons for as long as we can get away with it, is clearly the mantra these days.

Edited June 24, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Aresnar]

While I can't say I am pleased with the change in rarity or collection unlock prices, what really really does get me is that this change was not announced earlier to the consumers.

 

So can we please get a BW response regarding that question:

 

WHY was this change not announced to the consumers beforehand?

[Lunafox]

While I can't say I am pleased with the change in rarity or collection unlock prices, what really really does get me is that this change was not announced earlier to the consumers.

 

So can we please get a BW response regarding that question:

 

WHY was this change not announced to the consumers beforehand?

 

I think this quote below answers that question and what they think of us. It's time we showed them we're not that dumb. The can try to pull the wool over our eyes, but someone is bound to notice the yarn.

 

No, they should of announced that the collections unlock prices had changed for this pack.

 

They of course did not, as they know full well it would of impacted if only a little, on their revenue.

 

Exploit these morons for as long as we can get away with it, is clearly the mantra these days.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Lunafox

[LordArtemis]

Well, to make my feelings clear on this issue, as someone had mentioned earlier that it would perhaps be more useful for us to see what we can agree on....

 

1) I feel Bioware has every right to seek revenue in any way they see fit, as long as that process does not impact subscriber numbers in a negative way.

 

2) I do not feel that the changes made to this pack in and of themselves are changes that would negatively impact said numbers in any substantial way.

 

HOWEVER

 

3) I DO feel that Bioware should have made the changes to the "norm" clear by posting the information pertaining to this pack, namely....

 

a. Items that can drop in the pack and their rarity

b. Unlock costs for items that can be collected

c. Lack of reputation in this pack

d. Limited time release

 

...as that would have prevented most of the complaints IMO.

 

I also feel that this is how it should be done henceforth.

 

I see the problem as not so much that they MADE changes, but that they were not as forthcoming as I think they should have been, nor were they able to foresee the negative reaction this would cause.

 

I am not interested in WHY they made the changes, nor am I interested or concerned about their motives. Only their methods of communication and lack of foresight.

Edited June 24, 2014 by LordArtemis

[NightEngine]

15,000 views of this thread, so I'd say more than a few have taken notice of it. If 50 of those people don't buy CCs for the the next Hypercrate, it's noticeable. There are multiple threads on this, and people in-game made aware of it by friends. If BW weren't concerned because this is just the forums, they wouldn't have responded via Eric.

 

Those are not 15,000 unqiue views but I digress.

 

Of course Bioware is concerned, they're more responsive to their customers than most MMO developers. They've proven it. Which is exactly why I've been saying that everyone should view this whole ordeal as a positive experience.

[Wtftastic]

Hey Mureyu,

 

Good question, let me explain a bit about this shipment of packs and how it works. The first thing that many of you noticed is that this shipment does not have a reputation track, this is intentional. The Star Cluster pack and the Club Vertica pack are a smaller, special shipment which is intended to run during Nar Shaddaa Nightlife Event.

 

What you will see is that Star Cluster will become embargoed on the launch of 2.8.1, which will also mark the launch of Club Vertica. Similarly, Club Vertica will only be available up to, or before, the launch of 2.9. I don't have an exact date on when Club Vertica will be embargoed but I will let you know when I do. However, it should be noted that it will embargo during the Nightlife Event.

 

Again, these were two packs made specifically around the Nightlife event and they work a little differently then some of our others have. When messaging this we were treating it like we do a normal pack and messaging an embargo approximately 1-2 weeks out.

 

I hope that explains the embargo timing.

 

-eric

 

Hey can you also fix (uh well, I guess fix is the wrong word, since you claim its intentional) the fact that the packs drop 90% lower body armors and pretty much nothing else? Chest pieces being (in some cases) almost 1000x the value of pants is just stupid. Does the entire population of the Empire no longer wear shirts? Is this Hutt festival dedicated to the wearing of pants and nothing else? Make your lies more believable, its just getting insulting.

[ivanhedgehog]

Hey can you also fix (uh well, I guess fix is the wrong word, since you claim its intentional) the fact that the packs drop 90% lower body armors and pretty much nothing else? Chest pieces being (in some cases) almost 1000x the value of pants is just stupid. Does the entire population of the Empire no longer wear shirts? Is this Hutt festival dedicated to the wearing of pants and nothing else? Make your lies more believable, its just getting insulting.

 

they have the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem & Howe writing their releases now. no telling what will happen to the next pack.

[Wtftastic]

they have the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem & Howe writing their releases now. no telling what will happen to the next pack.

 

Citizens of the Empire and Republic now only wear headgear, bracers, and gloves.

[Ravenschild]

Hey Mureyu,

 

Good question, let me explain a bit about this shipment of packs and how it works. The first thing that many of you noticed is that this shipment does not have a reputation track, this is intentional. The Star Cluster pack and the Club Vertica pack are a smaller, special shipment which is intended to run during Nar Shaddaa Nightlife Event.

 

What you will see is that Star Cluster will become embargoed on the launch of 2.8.1, which will also mark the launch of Club Vertica. Similarly, Club Vertica will only be available up to, or before, the launch of 2.9. I don't have an exact date on when Club Vertica will be embargoed but I will let you know when I do. However, it should be noted that it will embargo during the Nightlife Event.

 

Again, these were two packs made specifically around the Nightlife event and they work a little differently then some of our others have. When messaging this we were treating it like we do a normal pack and messaging an embargo approximately 1-2 weeks out.

 

I hope that explains the embargo timing.

 

-eric

 

And we will see what the stuff in the new pack looks like when?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Ravenschild

[OddballEasyEight]

And we will see what the stuff in the new pack looks like when?

 

When it's released? Or at least when the patch containing the items is released.

 

If you can't wait, Dulfy has about half of the sets to preview already.

 

Honestly tho, people are getting spoiled when it comes to previews.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Bumping lest we forget.