[Need - Greed - Pass] Loot Etiquette

[Randor]

I've been playing SWTOR since launch, and have never had a problem with this until recently. This is how I understand it:

 

Need: You need it for your main. Period.

 

Greed: If you want it, roll on it. Period.

 

Pass: If you don't want it to touch your inventory, pass. Period.

 

Recently, I've been harangued multiple times for greed rolling everything; FPs, pug OPs, etc. instead of passing. Normally, I just gather up anything I greed roll win on and vendor it to make a few extra bucks. Is this no the case? I typically wouldn't even bring this up, but in the last couple months, I seem to get lectured at least a few times a week.

 

Am I wrong? /waltersobchak

Edited June 18, 2014 by Randor

[Darth_Wicked]

In what server is this?

[Randor]

Harbinger.

[DOHboy]

thanks, I needed some more glue for this project i'm working on.

 

you can't police personal choice, so you either remove the choice or live with those that abuse it because they can.

[Randor]

I haven't needed anything from any runs in a long, long time, so I thought I was doing pugs a favor by just greeding across the board..... but apparently not.

[Thoronmir]

I've been playing SWTOR since launch, and have never had a problem with this until recently. This is how I understand it:

 

Need: You need it for a toon, main, alt. or otherwise. If stated 'roll for main only' at the beginning, then you follow rules.

 

Greed: If you want it, roll on it. Period.

 

Pass: If you don't want it to touch your inventory, pass. Period.

 

Recently, I've been harangued multiple times for greed rolling everything; FPs, pug OPs, etc. instead of passing. Normally, I just gather up anything I greed roll win on and vendor it to make a few extra bucks. Is this no the case? I typically wouldn't even bring this up, but in the last couple months, I seem to get lectured at least a few times a week.

 

Am I wrong? /waltersobchak

I disagree with your standards for rolling Need. I endorse the view that you only roll Need on items your current character (i.e., the one actually helping the FP or OP, in the role they are filling for the FP or OP) can use. I'm not so draconian as to require that everything for you class must necessarily be an upgrade before you roll Need for it. That just leads to lots of wasted time as we start inspecting each other to see if the item for which Bob rolled Need really has better mods than his current gear.

 

Anyone who just automatically rolls Need for non-class items without asking first ends up on my Ignore list. Under your way, I have to ask you not to Need on stuff your character doesn't really need. Under my way, you're free to ask whether you can roll Need on such items (e.g., if you want it for your Companion).

 

I've never encountered anyone getting upset over anyone rolling Greed on anything. That seems ... wrong.

[Anaesha]

The standard practice has always been to need only on items your CURRENT char can use not something your comp, or an alt can use.

 

9 times out of 10 I pass on most items unless they are something I can use or are a crafting item that I greed on.

[Jonfendm]

The cold, hard reality is... anyone who whines that you rolled greed, just has no clue about MMOs and loot. Ignore them.

[annabethchase]

Do not roll need for alts. that results in rolling need 100% of the time since we all have up to 22 character slots that the item could be used somewhere.

 

The only way you can roll need for an alt is if you set it up with the group up front, i.e. I tried to come as dps but you needed a tank. I'll come as a tank but roll for my dps. If the leader says yes, then it's ok.

[Randor]

Normally I do ignore, but the sheer quantity of people questioning my greed rolls as of late has me questioning it myself, which is why I'm posting, haha. I run a few HMFPs a week, just because it's fun to chat with people during the runs, but not when I'm getting lectured.

 

Also, you all are absolutely right: Needs are for main only. I never need roll anything anymore, so a little rusty there.

[eartharioch]

People can argue all day about what constitutes "Need", but if somebody accuses you of being greedy for always rolling "Greed", they may *need* to consult a dictionary.

[Andryah]

This is an MMO being played in the modern era or entitlement on the part of players.

 

So.. there is NO etiquette per se...no matter what the loot zealots may claim in an internet gaming forum.

 

There is only what players in a group discuss and agree upon for that run.

 

Any group that cannot spend 3 minutes up front discussing and agreeing on the "loot etiquette" for "that run and that group" deserves whatever happens or does not happen regarding loot IMO.

[Khevar]

Someone complained because you didn't Pass on loot, but instead used Greed?!?

 

O.o

 

That's a new one.

[Andryah]

Someone complained because you didn't Pass on loot, but instead used Greed?!?

 

O.o

 

That's a new one.

 

If I had to guess here.... one or more players in group were assuming that if you won something with a greed roll, you pass subsequent greed rolls again until everyone has won something (a common practice in guild groups). But again.. that is the mother of all assumptions on the part of players UNLESS they actually discussed it in advance and agreed to the loot etiquette for that group on that run.

[Randor]

Oh, not one, but many people. Here is the gist of their argument:

 

"If you don't *need* it at all, for any toon, pass on it so those that didn't win the need roll have a better chance for the greed roll."

 

This was their answer. I understand where they are coming from, but I'm not buying it. If I greed win something you want..... just ask me for it! Almost guaranteed I'll just give it to you. lol

[LordArtemis]

I think the entire NEED/GREED system has to be thrown out for all instanced heroic and end game content. Instead, I think there should be a token system that would allow you to choose what you want with the tokens.

 

That way the gear slot machine is finally abolished, as it should be IMO.

[Ratajack]

I think the entire NEED/GREED system has to be thrown out for all instanced heroic and end game content. Instead, I think there should be a token system that would allow you to choose what you want with the tokens.

 

That way the gear slot machine is finally abolished, as it should be IMO.

 

I do not mind the gear slot machine. If one simply obtained tokens and could use them for anything, than you would see many instances that were never run. IMO, everyone would only queue for the what they felt was the easiest/most efficient instance(s), if loot involved a token system and not a gear slot system.

 

I would like to see the loot system changed, but I would prefer to see it changed so that every member of a FP group got an identical item, whether that be a story mode FP or a hard mode FP. That way there is no "loot drama", no worrying about being "ninja'd" and there is still the RNG factor.

[LordArtemis]

I do not mind the gear slot machine. If one simply obtained tokens and could use them for anything, than you would see many instances that were never run. IMO, everyone would only queue for the what they felt was the easiest/most efficient instance(s), if loot involved a token system and not a gear slot system.

 

I would like to see the loot system changed, but I would prefer to see it changed so that every member of a FP group got an identical item, whether that be a story mode FP or a hard mode FP. That way there is no "loot drama", no worrying about being "ninja'd" and there is still the RNG factor.

 

You misunderstand. I did not mean a generic token for all instances...I meant a token for that particular instance and it's rewards that you turn in to get it.

 

So, essentially we are on the same page...this way everyone gets a reward, and you get to choose that reward from the available rewards for that instance.

 

For instance, here is a list of the gear that drops in Black Talon.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/flashpoint/the-black-talon#

 

So, a vendor would exist that is the "Black Talon" vendor. When you would normally get a random gear drop, say from downing a boss, instead you get a token....everyone gets one, and that token can be used to choose one piece of gear from the list.

 

So you get what you want. The terminal would be located close to the entrance.

Edited June 18, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

You misunderstand. I did not mean a generic token for all instances...I meant a token for that particular instance and it's rewards that you turn in to get it.

 

So, essentially we are on the same page...this way everyone gets a reward, and you get to choose that reward from the available rewards for that instance.

 

For instance, here is a list of the gear that drops in Black Talon.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/flashpoint/the-black-talon#

 

So, a vendor would exist that is the "Black Talon" vendor. When you would normally get a random gear drop, say from downing a boss, instead you get a token....everyone gets one, and that token can be used to choose one piece of gear from the list.

 

So you get what you want. The terminal would be located close to the entrance.

 

That's not a bad idea.

 

My only concern is the loss of the RNG factor.

 

With the system that I mentioned, which was proposed by another poster in another thread, there is still the RNG factor. While everyone gets the "drop", it may not be the piece you wanted. This provides incentive to run that instance again, until the RNG gods favor you.

 

There is also the fact that "guaranteed" payoffs are far less likely to promote certain actions than "random" payouts will. This is one of the reasons why gambling can be so addictive and why casinos are so successful.

[LordArtemis]

That's not a bad idea.

 

My only concern is the loss of the RNG factor.

 

With the system that I mentioned, which was proposed by another poster in another thread, there is still the RNG factor. While everyone gets the "drop", it may not be the piece you wanted. This provides incentive to run that instance again, until the RNG gods favor you.

 

There is also the fact that "guaranteed" payoffs are far less likely to promote certain actions than "random" payouts will. This is one of the reasons why gambling can be so addictive and why casinos are so successful.

 

I see what you are saying. I am trying to move folks away from running them so many times they get boring. Instead, I would rather encourage folks to run tacticals throughout the leveling experience, and use the flashpoints as springboards to much higher content.

 

One would still have to run the flashpoints more than once if they desire more than one piece. As you can see, the list is quite extensive.

 

I think the RNG system does not promote play in the way it is supposed to. Instead, I think it promotes a feeling that experiencing the content is not worth it for most casual folks....the ones I really want to appeal to.

[Ratajack]

I see what you are saying. I am trying to move folks away from running them so many times they get boring. Instead, I would rather encourage folks to run tacticals throughout the leveling experience, and use the flashpoints as springboards to much higher content.

 

One would still have to run the flashpoints more than once if they desire more than one piece. As you can see, the list is quite extensive.

 

I think the RNG system does not promote play in the way it is supposed to. Instead, I think it promotes a feeling that experiencing the content is not worth it for most casual folks....the ones I really want to appeal to.

 

I think the casuals want to experience the content, but that experience is hampered by the more "hardcore" or the "GO GO GO, SPACEBAR" crowd.

 

The catch-22 is that if you remove that RNG factor, then those "GO GO GO, SPACEBAR" will likely no longer be providing bodies for the group finder tool, and queue times will escalate even further than they already have with the introduction of the tactical FP's.

 

I'm not sure how to provide the incentive to keep players in the FP's and group finder tool so that the casuals can experience the content while also not polluting that content with the often abrasive attitudes of the "GO GO GO, SPACEBAR" crowds.

[Hebruixe]

People can argue all day about what constitutes "Need", but if somebody accuses you of being greedy for always rolling "Greed", they may *need* to consult a dictionary.

 

I'm pretty sure the dictionary would tell you that greedy is selfish and apathetic toward the needs of other people....lol

[psandak]

Randor, you are not wrong. I follow the same etiquette you do:

 

Need on stuff I need

Greed on stuff I don't need but would like for whatever reason

Pass on stuff I have no use for.

 

Most of the time I greed everything, and I have never been berated for it (and I am on the Harbinger too). That being said, could the RNG gods be particularly benevolent to you recently i.e. you winning multiple greed rolls?

 

There is an existing game mechanism that could be applied to the loot system: weighted rolling. In FPs where there are multiple conversations/cutscenes the RNG is weighted so that everyone should get their choice voiced. This could be applied to the loot system, so that a more even distribution of loot happens.