Mikeieveli Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I posted this in the Sentinel Forums but I figured I would post it in the PvP forums as well: The nerf bat to Guarded by the Force was too much. I can understand that perchance a nerf was needed since at the time Smash spec was so strong. But no more. Smash is now nerfed and Sentinel survivability is down the tubes. Currently one either uses GbtF the end of life for a sure death, just to get an extra 5 seconds to try to kill someone or one uses GbtF and Camo's just before the end of the duration in order to medpack and get back to the HP one had when one just popped GbtF to begin with, if your lucky. This is not how a defensive cd mechanic is supposed to work. My suggestion to fix it is this: either remove the healing debuff or remove the health lost when popping GbtF. It still will be nerfed compared to its original version, since the health is still taken at the end of the DCD. Which means this, you pop GbtF, get healed to 100% and drop down to 50% when the dcd ends or you cant get healed when you pop it but you dont lose HP. Right now using Camo after GbtF essentially removes a needed DCD, since we have to use 2 for 1. What class has to use 2 DCDs back to back for one of them to be effiective? Fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarizAA Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) They just need to move health lost from end to start of it. So you kick it when you are low on hp, lose some health, and heal yourself at once (also you can have healers work on you without half of their job goes in vain). Edited June 12, 2014 by FarizAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroxaize Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Right now using Camo after GbtF essentially removes a needed DCD, since we have to use 2 for 1. What class has to use 2 DCDs back to back for one of them to be effective? Fix this. just to answer this question: Mercenary. we have to use energy shield in conjunction with kolto overload just to get any benefit out of kolto otherwise we fall like flys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 just to answer this question: Mercenary. we have to use energy shield in conjunction with kolto overload just to get any benefit out of kolto otherwise we fall like flys Sins need to cleanse any DoT's before Cloaking as well. Same for Operatives. Otherwise you just get pulled back into the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Right now using Camo after GbtF essentially removes a needed DCD, since we have to use 2 for 1. What class has to use 2 DCDs back to back for one of them to be effiective? Fix this. To answer this question, sorcs had to use grenades when leaving Force Barrier to cover an escape between 2.0 and 2.7. Otherwise our only real DCD was only a tasty snack for smashers and other assorted hyenas who just waited for us to end the channel and finish off with a smash. The only reason why Enduring Bastion was added was to give sorcs a chance to escape or h2f afterwards instead of Barrier (by itself) preceding an automatic free kill as before. Now given how little CC full sorc healers have, yes being forced to use our only AOE CC just to make our sole DCD work was kind of bad. We still need to burn polarity shift just to get WW to work (speaking as healer, without DPS cast time reduction talents)--otherwise WW is a guaranteed interrupt and/or we're dead by the time it lands because of atrocious pushback. And as others have mentioned, stealth classes must purge for their stealth to work... So yeah, sents aren't the only ones who need to stack cooldowns to make them remotely effective. Welcome to the world of everyone else. Edited June 12, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) They just need to move health lost from end to start of it. So you kick it when you are low on hp, lose some health, and heal yourself at once (also you can have healers work on you without half of their job goes in vain). The reason its doesn't work like that is because in competitive PvP the health loss at the beginning meant that nearly every time GBTF was used it allowed the sentinel to be healed to full, and later healed to full again with camo. Edited June 12, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber_the_Goober Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) What's wrong with having this skill not remove any health, but instead making all incoming heals drop to 0 during the ability? Take little damage, but also receive no healing...maybe even have the incoming heals remain at 0 for twice the duration, so for the 5 seconds after gbtf you also can't be healed back to full. Edited June 12, 2014 by Uber_the_Goober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The old strat was, GbtF at like 5% medpack back to ~30 + heals then lol in people's faces bc they have no more burst and you still have dcds and easily win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Holmes Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 What's wrong with having this skill not remove any health, but instead making all incoming heals drop to 0 during the ability? Take little damage, but also receive no healing...maybe even have the incoming heals remain at 0 for twice the duration, so for the 5 seconds after gbtf you also can't be healed back to full. So walk through a fire/acid trap with 100% health, then leave with 100% health. Sounds fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber_the_Goober Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 So walk through a fire/acid trap with 100% health, then leave with 100% health. Sounds fair. Sounds awfully situational. Besides operatives can already do this - just roll through. So can my commando, and my buddy's vanguard. Just pop shield and adrenaline rush, maybe a warzone adrenal also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordorian Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 So walk through a fire/acid trap with 100% health, then leave with 100% health. Sounds fair. tbf a sniper can just roll through it without taking damage, and operative are have a not too bad chance of doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Personally I just think they need to remove the health and healing penalty, change the duration to 3 seconds, and only allow it to be activated under 30% health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Personally I just think they need to remove the health and healing penalty, change the duration to 3 seconds, and only allow it to be activated under 30% health. Sounds fair except keep it 5 secs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Personally I just think they need to remove the health and healing penalty, change the duration to 3 seconds, and only allow it to be activated under 30% health. The problem that existed previously with GBTF is that it was too powerful and too easy to heal2full while under it. I think the video of the DRAMA arena match (the one where they had 4 sorcs) pretty much proved it. A move that nullifies all damage for 4 seconds needs to have some kind of penalty or weakness. No other class has a move that is as powerful as what you are asking for. ED might be close, but everyone except the bad juggs admit that it is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) The problem that existed previously with GBTF is that it was too powerful and too easy to heal2full while under it. I think the video of the DRAMA arena match (the one where they had 4 sorcs) pretty much proved it. A move that nullifies all damage for 4 seconds needs to have some kind of penalty or weakness. No other class has a move that is as powerful as what you are asking for. ED might be close, but everyone except the bad juggs admit that it is OP. Resilience is almost as strong as undying rage. Barrier is as strong as undying rage. Pyro PTs kolto overload is stronger than undying rage. Enraged defense is stronger than undying rage. Undying rage is very weak right now. Edited June 12, 2014 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Barrier is as strong as undying rage. Pyro PTs kolto overload is stronger than undying rage. Enraged defense is stronger than undying rage. Wat. You cannot do anything at all with barrier active, plus its a 3 minute cooldown. Kolto leaves you at 35% tops and can still easily be burned through during its active by a pair of DPS (or one DPS who gets some pretty crits) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOOMOCTAGON Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 It's a fine line. It definitely takes more skill now to use it right and not just kill yourself which adds some depth instead of it just being ez mode. Taking the health away in the beginning just makes it to OP because you can be healed back up so easy. Taking the health away at the end makes it kinda worthless a lot of times cause you are just killing yourself unless you a white bar or camo. As it is right now you either use it as a last ditch effort for 5 seconds of extra life or you use it at 30-40% health and try to time things right to survive after it's over. I think what might work is to keep it like it functions now but make the health removal a DOT of sorts. You don't lose it all at once and allows for a better chance of surviving afterwards. Maybe even allow it to be cleansed like a lethality dot where it applies a weaker version after that cannot be cleansed. So 50% of your health from the end of the ability removed with like a 6-8 second DOT. If a healer can cleanse it knocks it down to 25% hp removal. Given all the unclean sable dots this would actually give a healer a reason to use their cleanse and still keep some tactics and timing skill without being ez mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sounds fair except keep it 5 secs. Oh, you again? You never do give up, do you? Sentinels are fine - now stop beating a dead horse. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The problem that existed previously with GBTF is that it was too powerful and too easy to heal2full while under it. I think the video of the DRAMA arena match (the one where they had 4 sorcs) pretty much proved it. A move that nullifies all damage for 4 seconds needs to have some kind of penalty or weakness. No other class has a move that is as powerful as what you are asking for. ED might be close, but everyone except the bad juggs admit that it is OP. 3 second duration is not long enough to "heal to full" from 30% or less health. Those two limitations would be enough to ensure it is not anywhere near as OP as ED/FD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Seriously though, with all the CC being thrown out and the buffs to ranged classes H2F would'nt be bad for Sents/Maras. But I'd settle for a buff to Guarded cause as of right now it's a "oh sht!" button that keeps you alive for a few seconds before you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Resilience is almost as strong as undying rage. Barrier is as strong as undying rage. Pyro PTs kolto overload is stronger than undying rage. Enraged defense is stronger than undying rage. Undying rage is very weak right now. Resilence? It only stops tech/force damage, weapon damage goes through just fine. So juggs can still root and damage us, marauders can still destroy us, snipers can still leg shot and ambush us, assassins can still low slash or maul us, the list goes on. Plus, it is so easy to notice, you literally have to be blind not to know when resilience is on. Barrier? Please tell me you are joking. Until undying rage roots you in one place and doesn't let you use any attacks, please don't compare the two. The Pyro PTs kolto overload is probably better than the current undying rage, but my entire post was referring to the old undying rage. Enraged defense, while OP, can be burst through if it doesn't crit and the jugg activates it when he doesn't have much hp left, trying to burst down UR is a waste of burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_osss Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I understand the health drop at the end now for coordinated groups with competent healers. What no one has mentioned is the Cooldown duration increase. Honestly, with the nerf to smash and the health loss at the end I think the cooldown nerf on top of all that is what get's under my skin the most. I agree with the OP in that I regularly use it with Force Camo and medpack to get the best mileage out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sents and Maras need a damn fix. The top solo ranked Mara in the world is in 40th place. http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/pvp/solo That's ridiculous, and everyone here knows it and just wants to keep the class weak. Look, I know the smash monkeys touched many people in naughty places, but could we fix undying for the anni maras? At least reduce the CD again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sents and Maras need a damn fix. The top solo ranked Mara in the world is in 40th place. http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/pvp/solo That's ridiculous, and everyone here knows it and just wants to keep the class weak. Look, I know the smash monkeys touched many people in naughty places, but could we fix undying for the anni maras? At least reduce the CD again? Solo ranked is garbage, always was, always will be. It is pot luck. Only tards think that solo "ranked" leaderboards mean anything other than 1. they were queue syncing 2. they played during the same times that losers played on the other side. 3. they traded wins. In the group ranked (the real ranked) there are 5 marauders/sentinels in the top 50. And just for your records the super duper mega OP assassins/shadows take only 6 of those places. But the normal not op at all PTs/VGs hold 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Solo ranked is garbage, always was, always will be. It is pot luck. Only tards think that solo "ranked" leaderboards mean anything other than 1. they were queue syncing 2. they played during the same times that losers played on the other side. 3. they traded wins. In the group ranked (the real ranked) there are 5 marauders/sentinels in the top 50. And just for your records the super duper mega OP assassins/shadows take only 6 of those places. But the normal not op at all PTs/VGs hold 10. Oh assault VG's are definitely overpowered after 2.8. There's no question that Bioware made a bad problem worse. On top of that they apparently buffed passive stealth detection for players, which would take a wrecking ball to concealment ops and deception sins. I disagree that solo queue is worthless. Good players are going to make up for bad teams over average players running FOTM comps in group. Edited June 12, 2014 by Brunner_Venda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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