General_Brass Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Sure it is. Just stick on your home server after a bunch of people abandon ship and head to TEH, Bastion, and Harbinger. All of a sudden the queues get faster and you can pull all sorts of crazy **** in a stock ship. Apparently migration of most of the aces can bring noobs out of hiding. . Awhile back I did a thread about what the scene was like on Prophecy of the five. So comparing the information from that sample to the current scene should provide a little insight into the validity of the idea that the damage done by really bad matches gets undone. Here's what the scene was like today 1st column is when I would Q, second column is when the Q would pop, third and fourth columns are notes about the match. 5/14/2014 13:07 14:02 Blow out loss 3 people left before end 14:13 15:51 Blow out loss 2 people left before end 16:03 16:05 Blow out win 16:16 17:16 blow out loss spawn camped in domination 17:27 17:30 Blow out loss VS a month ago 4/2/2014 1:27 1:31 1:45 1:58 2:11 2:21 2:47 2:55 3:09 3:11 3:22 3:26 3:40 3:49 3:59 4:01 4:12 4:30 4:42 4:50 5:05 5:06 Observations: GSF is still producing horrific matches The match creation rate is less than half what it was a month ago. You can draw your own conclusions about why this is happening, mine are pretty simple most people don't like queuing to fight horribly lopsided matches for small rewards. Another is that it would be better to wait a little longer for good matches, that bring people back then create bad matches that drive them away. Edited May 15, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_sim Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 umm I'm missing something here. Are you assuming something the reader should know about your server situation? or did you just forget some data? Seriously I'm not getting what this data is showing or how it connect to the point I'm also missing. please clarify/add to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The only thing it is really showing seeing he didn't put the Win/Loss and such for the previous data is how much slower the queu times appear. from 10-15 mins at most to over an Hour in queu for most of those matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 umm I'm missing something here. Are you assuming something the reader should know about your server situation? or did you just forget some data? Seriously I'm not getting what this data is showing or how it connect to the point I'm also missing. please clarify/add to it. The original thread was about how match volume was sufficient that the matchmaker could actually try and balance matches. This thread is to present data on the proposition that removing particular people from a server will cause the community to regenerate. In the case of Pot5 the dominant premades of "ACES" that were dominating matches left for other servers. What I see in this data is that the community on Pot5 has not regenerated and the conditions that SEEMED to drive people away are still doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_sim Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The original thread was about how match volume was sufficient that the matchmaker could actually try and balance matches. This thread is to present data on the proposition that removing particular people from a server will cause the community to regenerate. In the case of Pot5 the dominant premades of "ACES" that were dominating matches left for other servers. What I see in this data is that the community on Pot5 has not regenerated and the conditions that SEEMED to drive people away are still doing so. Like most PvP players are single minded and have no interest in GSF. At least that's the observation I've seen. almost everyone I know that does GSF does not significantly Ground pvp and them selves came from a PvE background. Note how the healthiest servers(GSF) are PvE and/or RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Like most PvP players are single minded and have no interest in GSF. At least that's the observation I've seen. almost everyone I know that does GSF does not significantly Ground pvp and them selves came from a PvE background. Note how the healthiest servers(GSF) are PvE and/or RP. My own feeling , and I only present as a feeling is that they just had larger populations to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Note how the healthiest servers(GSF) are PvE and/or RP. That is a bold claim, and requires some data to back it up. Bastion is a PvP server....and while I would not say that our queue times are 'great', they are most definitely better than other servers I have been to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 5/14/2014 13:07 14:02 Blow out loss 3 people left before end 14:13 15:51 Blow out loss 2 people left before end 16:03 16:05 Blow out win 16:16 17:16 blow out loss spawn camped in domination 17:27 17:30 Blow out loss Two things: 1) This sucks. Almost an hour wait for 3/5 matches. Do you have a character on the other faction on that server? I would be curious if the other faction had several 'same-faction' matches during your off times, or if no games were being played on that server period. It's very advantageous to have characters in both factions if you're dedicated to a particular server. 2) If you're waiting over an hour for a match to happen, you don't get to complain about the quality of the game. You should just be thankful you got in a game, period. Obviously it's not the matchmaker's fault, it's just putting the only people online into a game -- and in that situation the game will more than likely be a blowout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Two things: 1) This sucks. Almost an hour wait for 3/5 matches. Do you have a character on the other faction on that server? I would be curious if the other faction had several 'same-faction' matches during your off times, or if no games were being played on that server period. It's very advantageous to have characters in both factions if you're dedicated to a particular server. I moved off this server awhile back. Just came back to test the hypothesis. 2) If you're waiting over an hour for a match to happen, you don't get to complain about the quality of the game. You should just be thankful you got in a game, period. Obviously it's not the matchmaker's fault, it's just putting the only people online into a game -- and in that situation the game will more than likely be a blowout. It's chicken and egg. People get bad games over and over again they don't want to queue, the queue becomes this mess of garbage. Someone posted the worst score ever thread just recently. Everyone can laugh that off once in awhile, from what I saw that is the kind of thing that is going on Pot5 all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidenti Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Maybe PoT5 just sucks as a place to play GSF. From what I've heard about the server, it's not all that far-fetched. Edited May 15, 2014 by Sidenti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Maybe PoT5 just sucks as a place to play GSF. From what I've heard about the server, it's not all that far-fetched. Well it certainly is now, but it wasn't always. I play on a few servers and I see the same kinds of situation happening on them that happened on Pot5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Well it certainly is now, but it wasn't always. I play on a few servers and I see the same kinds of situation happening on them that happened on Pot5. Jung'Ma is apparently recovering after the vets left - gone are the days of waiting 35+ minutes for a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMolle Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Maybe PoT5 just sucks as a place to play GSF. From what I've heard about the server, it's not all that far-fetched. THIS ^^ I posted in the suggestion box for world (cross) server Beta test for GSF. All of my chars were on PoT5, and I literally have only 30 min. to play most days, but would love to blow off steam in GSF. I came to the forums and determined our server just doesn't have GSF players. I asked an ace pilot how he got so much experience when it typically takes 1 - 2 hours for a game to pop. He said to try the afternoon times, which is exactly what the OP posted! I rolled a new char on Harbinger, and queue popped in under 2 minutes. AND the game was well balanced/matched, we squeaked out a win with only a few points at the end! It was FUN. Sorry, OP. I've invested some upgrades on PoT5 so I'll try to queue time to time, but looks like Harbinger (and others) are a better bet if you want to FLY. I really do hope they figure out how to do the cross server or open world GSF; people want this SO BAD they would re-roll ships from scratch for it if need be, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommmsunb Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) *Ahem* I'll just leave this here for Mr. Brass http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/developing-fantastic-friendships.seriesId-331927.html I will repeat myself as I have ad nauseum. Pre-mades are not an unfair advantage. You have just as much power to start one as anybody else. Interesting benefits of making friends include: - No longer being so lonely - People who care about you at your funeral - People to care about at their funerals - Greater success in your career. - Greater success in your love-life - Lesser chance for severe heart failure due to high blood pressure. - Feel motivated to wake up in the morning. - Have a safety net to fall on when your tinfoil hat finally sets your house on fire and you're left homeless. - Have a support net to fall on when your gaming addiction is finally realized and you need to kick it. These are just a few of the benefits of having friends. You can have all of this for the price of 12.99 or a pitcher of cream ale at your local pub. Friends have no link to the friends tv show, friends may cause stupid random crap to happen to you when you least expect it, please socialize responsibly. Edited May 16, 2014 by tommmsunb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidenti Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 *Ahem* I'll just leave this here for Mr. Brass http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/developing-fantastic-friendships.seriesId-331927.html I will repeat myself as I have ad nauseum. Pre-mades are not an unfair advantage. You have just as much power to start one as anybody else. Interesting benefits of making friends include: - No longer being so lonely - People who care about you at your funeral - People to care about at their funerals - Greater success in your career. - Greater success in your love-life - Lesser chance for severe heart failure due to high blood pressure. - Feel motivated to wake up in the morning. - Have a safety net to fall on when your tinfoil hat finally sets your house on fire and you're left homeless. - Have a support net to fall on when your gaming addiction is finally realized and you need to kick it. These are just a few of the benefits of having friends. You can have all of this for the price of 12.99 or a pitcher of cream ale at your local pub. Friends have no link to the friends tv show, friends may cause stupid random crap to happen to you when you least expect it, please socialize responsibly. Look at you, trying to pass off making friends as if it's only a GOOD thing! The Carebear Group's paying you to be a lobbyist, aren't they?! AREN'T THEY?!?!?! Detrimental side effects from making friends are plentiful and serious. They include: * Having to put up with motherf*&^ers CONSTANTLY getting in touch with you to talk about what THEY wanna talk about * Having to plan social events when you'd just rather sit in your underwear and watch South Park * Having to go to social events THEY planned, which are always invariably worse * Greater success in your career (meaning you have to work more and kiss posterior) * Having to worry about your "friends" trying to snake that hot loose girl you're trying to snake too * MUCH greater chances for brain aneurysms when your "friends" say stupid things/vote for stupid people * Feeling motivated to get into a belltower with a high-powered rifle and a scope when they wake you up some sunny weekend afternoon to ask you to go do something when it's perfectly f*&^ing clear that I was already doing something much, much more entertaining * (I had an actual anecdote here but I've been reliably informed people don't like me joking about homelessness) * And, by FAR the worst aspect: Having to deal with non-gamers in any capacity anywhere ever, because you know you have that ONE FRIEND we all have that can't even Tetris Seriously, the FDA needs to regulate this nonsense. -bp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethgilne Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 *Ahem* I'll just leave this here for Mr. Brass http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/developing-fantastic-friendships.seriesId-331927.html I will repeat myself as I have ad nauseum. Pre-mades are not an unfair advantage. You have just as much power to start one as anybody else. Interesting benefits of making friends include: - No longer being so lonely - People who care about you at your funeral - People to care about at their funerals - Greater success in your career. - Greater success in your love-life - Lesser chance for severe heart failure due to high blood pressure. - Feel motivated to wake up in the morning. - Have a safety net to fall on when your tinfoil hat finally sets your house on fire and you're left homeless. - Have a support net to fall on when your gaming addiction is finally realized and you need to kick it. These are just a few of the benefits of having friends. You can have all of this for the price of 12.99 or a pitcher of cream ale at your local pub. Friends have no link to the friends tv show, friends may cause stupid random crap to happen to you when you least expect it, please socialize responsibly. I apologize in advance if I am misunderstanding something. But a pre-made group (assuming that they have voice communication) has an OVERWHELMING advantage over pick up groups. As for the friends thing, I'm probably the last person in my guild that plays GSF any more. I still like the game, but I only play erratically, maybe a game or two a couple nights a week. It's not really worth the trouble to find a new guild i'd hardly play with or convince the few guildies that are on to drop what they're doing to play a mini-game they no longer care for. I strongly feel that there are enough people in situations similar to mine for BW to enact some kind of in game communication system to even the playing field between pugs and pre-mades. Especially if they're trying GSF for the first time, having some kind of instruction from a veteran player would do a lot to ease that learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityLyre Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 It's not really worth the trouble to find a new guild i'd hardly play with or convince the few guildies that are on to drop what they're doing to play a mini-game they no longer care for. I can sympathize with this: A ways back, I left my original guild to find people actually interested in playing Galactic Starfighter. I wasn't interested in listening to doomsaying without even trying the game/minigame. Playing without guildies didn't stop me, though. I pulled in friends I knew and got to know others. You really don't need to be a part of a guild to make friends or even just speak to pilots that play regularly. For many of us, our guilds are just a formality. Get to know your community, offer to group up and have friendly conversation (or don't, no one's forcing you to). I strongly feel that there are enough people in situations similar to mine for BW to enact some kind of in game communication system to even the playing field between pugs and pre-mades. Especially if they're trying GSF for the first time, having some kind of instruction from a veteran player would do a lot to ease that learning curve. I agree that having instruction for your first few games would be nice, it's more than I had when I started (though I got to play in the beta). However, with Bioware's development being focused on the two new expansions I find it highly unlikely (read: not happening) that the developers will do this for you. At this point I think it's more or less up to the server communities to enact any changes they feel necessary. I do have a suggestion, though. The Bastion's Republic faction had a member early on who made a faction-specific Mumble server for GSF. He posted in the server forums allowing any Republic pilot to use it to communicate and coordinate with others. When I play Guild Wars 2, the server has an open Teamspeak server for conducting WvW (World versus World, large-scale group PvP) raids and groups. There's even open, free servers to use depending on which VOIP you use/prefer. What I'm getting at is this: Maybe try having an open VOIP server for your faction/server's community? Invite players to join and meet some new people that way. Get veteran involvement: I have a Community Resources section in my guide where you can find helper pilots on various servers. Try and pull them in? I regularly let new players and those I'm unfamiliar with on to the one I use and haven't had much issue with it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I apologize in advance if I am misunderstanding something. But a pre-made group (assuming that they have voice communication) has an OVERWHELMING advantage over pick up groups. Bull, Being in a group does not make you fly better, aim better, have better grear, turn better, or dogfight better. You can scream "INC C" in voice chat all day but that doesn't make your teammates get their any faster either. Premades are comprised of players just like solo queue'ers. Being in a group does not make you any better than if you queue'ed solo, and if your losing to some group its because that group is made of much better players than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommmsunb Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I apologize in advance if I am misunderstanding something. But a pre-made group (assuming that they have voice communication) has an OVERWHELMING advantage over pick up groups. As for the friends thing, I'm probably the last person in my guild that plays GSF any more. I still like the game, but I only play erratically, maybe a game or two a couple nights a week. It's not really worth the trouble to find a new guild i'd hardly play with or convince the few guildies that are on to drop what they're doing to play a mini-game they no longer care for. I strongly feel that there are enough people in situations similar to mine for BW to enact some kind of in game communication system to even the playing field between pugs and pre-mades. Especially if they're trying GSF for the first time, having some kind of instruction from a veteran player would do a lot to ease that learning curve. My point is that an unfair advantage is something you can't do yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 why are people posting about a completely reasonable game mechanic. Group with people - it's not hard. If you dont want to even try grouping, you shouldn't even try to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) why are people posting about a completely reasonable game mechanic. Group with people - it's not hard. If you dont want to even try grouping, you shouldn't even try to complain. Did you even look at those times ? That's what your completely reasonable mechanic did to one server I know of. There's now hour+ waits for matches because that "REASONABLE" mechanic was abused to hell. As to this no right to complain BS, just why should you be able to team up against people that don't want to fight solo against teams ? Edited May 16, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethgilne Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Bull, Being in a group does not make you fly better, aim better, have better grear, turn better, or dogfight better. You can scream "INC C" in voice chat all day but that doesn't make your teammates get their any faster either. Premades are comprised of players just like solo queue'ers. Being in a group does not make you any better than if you queue'ed solo, and if your losing to some group its because that group is made of much better players than you. Except a group in communication with each other can almost instantly callout a target and focus fire. Are you going to tell me that's not a significant advantage over a group of strangers not talking to each other? If you're going to tell me that a pre-made group offers no advantage, why are you so quick to defend any criticism against it? Yes it requires team work on the part of the group on teamspeak. And I also realize that it doesn't make people magically better (so cool your jets). But what it does do is give the TS teams a higher potential for coordination and effectiveness that can't possibly be matched by someone that just dropped into a random game. And again. I. AM. NOT. speaking against pre-mades. It's a totally legit and fun way to enjoy the game. But I'd also like for some of you that acknowledge that finding a group and jumping onto a mumbler server isn't for everyone. I don't know their reasons and neither do you. But I strongly believe that it isn't healthy for the game if those players are repeatedly dominated by coordinated teams. What's being created is a zero-sum situation where you either invest the time and energy to join a team or expect to lose. I only propose that there be some kind of tool that opens up a middle ground between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidenti Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Did you even look at those times ? That's what your completely reasonable mechanic did to one server I know of. There's now hour+ waits for matches because that "REASONABLE" mechanic was abused to hell. As to this no right to complain BS, just why should you be able to team up against people that don't want to fight solo against teams ? So you're saying radio killed the video stars? You know, to be fair, they kinda had it coming to 'em due to an incident that happened back in 1979... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If my friend doesn't want to press the block button on a console fighting game, I shouldn't be forced to not use block myself. You make your own choice, but others can and will continue to form with friends. We don't call out anything except the same **** we'd type to each other. The things we're saying can be easily observed by paying attention to your minimap and the score / sats. Adapt and overcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) If my friend doesn't want to press the block button on a console fighting game, I shouldn't be forced to not use block myself. You make your own choice, but others can and will continue to form with friends. We don't call out anything except the same **** we'd type to each other. The things we're saying can be easily observed by paying attention to your minimap and the score / sats. Adapt and overcome! Try again It's more like your friend says the block key on his controller isn't working, but he would happy to play a game without block. You reply: It's not your fault he doesn't have a good controller His reply: Ok, If you don't want to play, I'll do something else. Edited May 17, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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