Is the F2P/Preffered system too prohibitive, and if so, what should change?

[LordArtemis]

i recently started a second account to try out the f2p system and the onlything that really got me anoyed was the inability to talk to people on starting planets.

 

I know this is a way to try and stop the gold spammers, but its a bad one, after all, there is alot of new people that never tryed MMO before that wants to see if its something they would like.

 

But at the moment the starting planets are more or less solo planets for f2p people, since you cant group up with people, other then sending the "rude" invites without speaking to them.

 

You see people wanting to do same heroics as you and cant send them a wisper

 

Bad bad, afterall this IS an MMO, you shouldnt take away the ONE thing that makes it different to any other single player game, the ability to actually talk to others from start!

 

my 2 cents

 

This is my point, or one of them anyway. The game seems to alienate the free population in some aspects, and I say why not allow them to speak among THEMSELVES openly. They should only be restricted from unfettered access to chat with subs as they are to discourage gold sales IMO.

 

Removing or hindering a social aspect for the sake of an attempt to drive sales is not a good tactic in an MMO IMO.

[KinCharBamin]

The one thing that ticks me off about the F2P restrictions is not getting loot when I finish a quest.

It really seems unfair to restrict things like lock-boxes. I understand that I can't have purple stuff and I'm already making less XP but to keep loot away just sucks. I hate finishing a mission/quest and have the box pop up and say Select your reward and none are available.

[GreySix]

I want everything for free. Our American politicians have taught me that I should have everything handed to me

 

... so make with the free stuff.

[Vandicus]

I'd be on board with everything mentioned in the OP.

 

I believe that restrictions do need to exist in order to make subbing worthwhile, but the ones you've listed don't feel like they should be part of the "sub-only" package and would constitute a significant QoL improvement for preferred and f2p.

[Superman_AZ]

I think if you could unlock everything in the F2P model using CC that you would usually pay a sub for, there would be no need to adjust it. You could always sell an entire season of unlocks for some LARGE amount of CCs. Basically, work it out so it costs $10 more to unlock everything in F2P than it would to just sub. Then, if people want to stay F2P, they shell out an extra $10 a month and everyone wins. Odds are, they will find the sub package more attractive and sign up for it.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Yes indeed. You meet always two kind of people playing MMOs. But they don't need to fight.

Look at this new concept developed by... hmmm... I don't want to advertise : CREDD. Make your own opinion.

 

Actually RIFT does the same thing. And, the bottom of that explanation where it mentions the gold farmers? Well, I can say that if Wildstar turns out to be even half as successful with it's "CREDD" as RIFT is with "REX" (which is the same exact thing) then... The gold farmers have no market, because I can be sure I can count the number of times I've seen gold seller spam on RIFT with one Quarian's hand (for those that aren't Mass Effect fans, Quarians have three fingers).

[AbsolutGrndZero]

This is my point, or one of them anyway. The game seems to alienate the free population in some aspects, and I say why not allow them to speak among THEMSELVES openly. They should only be restricted from unfettered access to chat with subs as they are to discourage gold sales IMO.

 

Removing or hindering a social aspect for the sake of an attempt to drive sales is not a good tactic in an MMO IMO.

 

That's actually a good idea... maybe make a channel called "FreeTython" (or Korriban, or Mantell, or Hutta) separate from general? Then, I am a subscriber, right? So I can choose to go into FreeTython and be like "hey anyone doing x heroic" however, if I as a sub am a jerk and don't want to play with the F2P people (I am not, just saying... the only time I have a problem with the F2P crowd is those who complain that they aren't getting enough free stuff. It's free. Stop complaining.) I can just stay out of the FreeTython channel and ignore all the f2p players and gold spammers too. Then, we can report and ignore the gold spammers, but if the subs are "bothered" by them, just don't go in the starter planet chats.

 

In fact, as a subscriber? I WANT THIS. If only so that I don't get what I now realize was a gold spammer inviting me to group so he could give me his ad (his name was obviously a gold spammer... like asksjkijkjjjjjjj) and at the time I was like wondering why there were no spammers then why this idiot invited me to group... now I know why.

 

Plus, I like to go to the starter planets and give free lightsaber crystals to the new players (yellow and red are most popular... yellow so you can get it without havng to get dark side points, or red for those wanna be dark jedi... or they just like red... I dont' judge them... my lightsaber is pink) but alas even if I am willing to mail them to free players, they can't tell me they want one.

Edited June 5, 2014 by AbsolutGrndZero

[LordArtemis]

Really, what this has done is compartmentalized free players. The reasons, if to discourage gold sales seems reasonable IMO, but I see no reason they should be restricted from communicating among themselves.

 

And, as others have mentioned, subs can CHOOSE to communicate with them using the chat box they have, or just shut it off.

[TORtanked]

One of the most ridiculous addons of F2P is that vendor prices are increased for F2P and PSP'ers. That really should change. More of EAware trying to alienate their F2P in order to be subs in order to see the CM and attempt to gouge them. Edited June 6, 2014 by TORtanked

[DarthTHC]

One of the most ridiculous addons of F2P is that vendor prices are increased for F2P and PSP'ers. That really should change. More of EAware trying to alienate their F2P in order to be subs in order to see the CM and attempt to gouge them.

 

Your post is very confusing. Are you trying to say that EA wants to make F2P players into subscribers so they can see the cartel market? I thought F2P players already could see it. Isn't that how F2P become Preferred - make a purchase?

 

Further, I think you need to learn the definition of the word, "gouge". Here, I'll help you. The economic definition of the term, as found at mirriam-webster.com is:

 

to subject to extortion or undue exaction

 

Could you please explain how people could ever be extorted or subject to undue exaction in a game, and specifically how this game does it? (More specific than "Cartel Market Sucks, yo!" please.) Thanks.

Edited June 6, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Tsillah]

I find it funny that people who pay subs sit here complaining about it. Why would you?

 

Oh yes, you wanna stop paying for this game and still have all the benefits of a sub and at the same time BW should keep the servers running without income or make this game a complete CM fest with constant in game advertising etc.

 

Honestly, do you people even think of the consequences of what you're asking. Just because there are games out there that have no subs and all income is generated via a cash shop, doesn't mean it would work here. Those other games don't have the story lines like this game has and other things that make you pay for this game as you do now. All that would not be possible.

 

F2P accounts need to be restricted for 2 reasons. First of all to keep subs worth paying for and secondly to limit the amount of gold seller activity to a minimum. There already is a rise of gold seller activity on the fleet on my server and I have to ignore and report people daily for spamming gold seller messages. That didn't happen before F2P. Simple reality.

 

You're just complaining because apparently you want everything for free. If not, you should be happy that BW are doing their best to maintain a precarious balance that you just seem to completely be unaware of.

[TUXs]

I find it funny that people who pay subs sit here complaining about it. Why would you?

 

Oh yes, you wanna stop paying for this game and still have all the benefits of a sub and at the same time BW should keep the servers running without income or make this game a complete CM fest with constant in game advertising etc.

 

Honestly, do you people even think of the consequences of what you're asking. Just because there are games out there that have no subs and all income is generated via a cash shop, doesn't mean it would work here. Those other games don't have the story lines like this game has and other things that make you pay for this game as you do now. All that would not be possible.

 

F2P accounts need to be restricted for 2 reasons. First of all to keep subs worth paying for and secondly to limit the amount of gold seller activity to a minimum. There already is a rise of gold seller activity on the fleet on my server and I have to ignore and report people daily for spamming gold seller messages. That didn't happen before F2P. Simple reality.

 

You're just complaining because apparently you want everything for free. If not, you should be happy that BW are doing their best to maintain a precarious balance that you just seem to completely be unaware of.

 

F2P accounts need restrictions, we agree there, but the current model is too restrictive for the games own good. I outlined my feelings why earlier in this thread, none of which have to do with me or any desire to play for free. I've been subbed since early access with no break.

 

The current model punishes players for not subbing rather than rewarding those who do.

[LordArtemis]

I find it funny that people who pay subs sit here complaining about it. Why would you?

 

Oh yes, you wanna stop paying for this game and still have all the benefits of a sub and at the same time BW should keep the servers running without income or make this game a complete CM fest with constant in game advertising etc.

 

Honestly, do you people even think of the consequences of what you're asking. Just because there are games out there that have no subs and all income is generated via a cash shop, doesn't mean it would work here. Those other games don't have the story lines like this game has and other things that make you pay for this game as you do now. All that would not be possible.

 

F2P accounts need to be restricted for 2 reasons. First of all to keep subs worth paying for and secondly to limit the amount of gold seller activity to a minimum. There already is a rise of gold seller activity on the fleet on my server and I have to ignore and report people daily for spamming gold seller messages. That didn't happen before F2P. Simple reality.

 

You're just complaining because apparently you want everything for free. If not, you should be happy that BW are doing their best to maintain a precarious balance that you just seem to completely be unaware of.

 

.....this folks is an example of dramatic prose dialed up to the maximum IMO.

 

You do not define why I am doing something, speaking of something, or my intent when engaging in dialog. I am capable of defining my intentions and motives all by myself.

 

You may FEEL this is how things are, but I can assure you, at least in my case, you couldn't be any more wrong if you tried.

 

I would recommend you consider the level of damage to your self respect that hyperbole tends to cause when posting on a public forum. If you wish for folks to take your opinion seriously it is usually best to avoid grand, reaching, judgmental statements that are drenched in emotion.

 

Naturally you are entitled to continue to post as you see fit.

[ikinai]

Nope, it's fine as is. According to my nephew who is F2P he gets everything he wants out of the game without having to pay for it. What more do you need? If you can get everything you want without having to pay, what else is there? If you want more, pay for it. Seems to be working fine. Can't talk? Big deal. Have you seen general chat? Is it really something you want? More silly jawa arse jokes? How is that going to make things better? Back in the day, we used to have these things called demo discs. We would get games that were meant to get us hooked on the game so we would go and buy it. Same thing with this F2P model they have. No big deal as far as I can tell. If you want more, pay for it. If you don't want more then you get what you get for free. What's the big deal with that?

[LordArtemis]

Nope, it's fine as is. According to my nephew who is F2P he gets everything he wants out of the game without having to pay for it. What more do you need? If you can get everything you want without having to pay, what else is there? If you want more, pay for it. Seems to be working fine. Can't talk? Big deal. Have you seen general chat? Is it really something you want? More silly jawa arse jokes? How is that going to make things better? Back in the day, we used to have these things called demo discs. We would get games that were meant to get us hooked on the game so we would go and buy it. Same thing with this F2P model they have. No big deal as far as I can tell. If you want more, pay for it. If you don't want more then you get what you get for free. What's the big deal with that?

 

Aside from the "everything that you want without having to pay" comment, which in my opinion is hyperbole, the rest of the post seems to be reasonable.

 

I understand what you are saying. I would only say that the suggestion for chat was a channel for only free players...not a request to remove restrictions on current general chat, which I indicated I feel need to remain in place.

 

I do not personally feel that asking for that, the toning down of the credit over cap spam and asking for the ability to mail items and money between characters you have created is asking for "everything that you want without having to pay"....after all, one would have to likely pay far more than 6 months worth of subscription just to unlock these sorts of things....to unlock legacy mail alone would probably be pretty expensive for a free player.

 

So that is hardly asking for something for nothing IMO.

Edited June 6, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Reno_Tarshil]

Nope, it's fine as is. According to my nephew who is F2P he gets everything he wants out of the game without having to pay for it. What more do you need? If you can get everything you want without having to pay, what else is there? If you want more, pay for it. Seems to be working fine. Can't talk? Big deal. Have you seen general chat? Is it really something you want? More silly jawa arse jokes? How is that going to make things better? Back in the day, we used to have these things called demo discs. We would get games that were meant to get us hooked on the game so we would go and buy it. Same thing with this F2P model they have. No big deal as far as I can tell. If you want more, pay for it. If you don't want more then you get what you get for free. What's the big deal with that?

 

I loved Playstation Demo Discs, I would play them all day cause we were poor.

[AlrikFassbauer]

DDO is always my prime example cfor an far less restrictive system which is still great, imho.

There, F2P players can easily team up with paying customers, but in SWETOR, F2P players need additional unlock stuff ("operation passes" or how these things are for example called).

.

[Khevar]

DDO is always my prime example cfor an far less restrictive system which is still great, imho.

There, F2P players can easily team up with paying customers, but in SWETOR, F2P players need additional unlock stuff ("operation passes" or how these things are for example called).

.

But F2P can buy these passes with credits.

 

One of the key people in my raid group was F2P. He crafted stims, sold them, bought unlocks on the GTN. It worked fine for him, without paying a cent of real money. Dunno about you, but that seems pretty convenient to me.

[Mazikeen]

F2P models exist for 2 reasons: as extended trial periods and to increase player numbers for the subscribers to choose from when grouping. SWTOR is $15/mo, if you can't afford this you don't need to be playing, it's that simple.

 

I am very, very tired of these entitlement complaints. Devs spend time working on the game, why should you be able to benefit from their work for free? And as far as the 'F2P punishes non-subscribers instead of rewarding those who do' I call B.S. - the removal of the restrictions is reward enough. On top of no restrictions you get roughly $5/mo worth of FREE Cartel Coins.

[LordArtemis]

F2P models exist for 2 reasons: as extended trial periods and to increase player numbers for the subscribers to choose from when grouping. SWTOR is $15/mo, if you can't afford this you don't need to be playing, it's that simple.

 

I am very, very tired of these entitlement complaints. Devs spend time working on the game, why should you be able to benefit from their work for free? And as far as the 'F2P punishes non-subscribers instead of rewarding those who do' I call B.S. - the removal of the restrictions is reward enough. On top of no restrictions you get roughly $5/mo worth of FREE Cartel Coins.

 

This seems to be a common confusion, caused by bias against free players more often than not.

 

Historically, in most F2P hybrid systems F2P players spend much more on the game than subscribed players do....in some cases as much as 25 percent more over less time.

 

It's actually not difficult to understand why this might happen....prices for unlocks and the like tend to sit well above the cost of a single payment for a 30 day sub.

 

Crossfire reported that the average F2P player will spend over 1200 dollars in the lifetime of that players gameplay....one year...compared to the 1080 the average subscribed player will pay over the course of an average three year subscription to a game. They also reported that F2P typically spend that amount in 1/3 the amount of time, increasing burst revenue through the roof.

 

Naturally they indicated a much higher level of free players has to be maintained to keep this large revenue stream viable, subscription revenue tends to be much smaller but a more reliable revenue source.

 

They also reported that content for the in game market is much more cost effective to develop. This is what makes the F2P system to appealing to the market. Lower costs, higher return over a shorter period.

 

That is your F2P player.

 

Crossfire was the number one f2p game in the market with almost a billion dollars in revenue in 2013. They know a little something about F2P players.

 

Now, not only is SWTOR NOT showing this kind of revenue stream (even though it should be IMO, not even close to its potential), it seems the majority of expenditures is coming from subs....which to me indicates the current F2P system is not enticing folks to spend OR sub.

 

To me that is a problem. That means the current model will not be sustainable IMO.

Edited June 6, 2014 by LordArtemis

[DarthTHC]

Thinking a bit more in where Artemis is coming from here... I'm not really a F2P sort of guy. I've said, probably in this thread, that I prefer to pay a company that provides value to me. I do that because recognizing revenue is the only way the company is going to keep supporting and expanding the thing that provides value to me.

 

I think everyone should feel the same way. What goes around, comes around, right?

 

But I am a try before you buy sort of guy. I'll test drive cars and I'll test drive games.

 

When I'm doing that test drive, my perception can only be based upon my experiences during that test drive. Comparing and contrasting my F2P test-drive in Rift with my test drive of SWTOR during game test, there's a big difference, and I think it's the heart of what Artemis is getting at.

 

During game test in SWTOR, I had the full breadth of everything available to me. I could chat at will. Once I hit the right level, I had sprint. I could always trade or use GTN. I could always equip artifact quality loot. I could always receive any quest reward. I was never badgered for anything.

 

During my time trying Rift as a F2P account, I felt... well, I felt like I was playing in molasses. Everything seemed slower, harder than it should have been. It didn't feel like a game. It wasn't fun. It felt slogging.

 

I don't play Rift. I obviously play SWTOR. I'm sure I could have subscribed to Rift and some or all of that slogging feeling would have been lifted. But I didn't really consider that at the time. I don't know if many do.

 

I think a better way to test drive might be to let everyone do everything (few exception, momentarily) up to a certain point, then require cash beyond that. Maybe the point is a level cap. That's how most games do it. Want more levels and to continue in the story? Subscribe or pay $X to get this character to Y level. Once you hit that cap, pay again.

 

Under that sort of test drive system, the restrictions I would leave on any account that's not a subscriber is probably the number of things like war zones or GSF or flash points or whatever they can queue for, but give them a way to buy-up to queue more.

 

The restriction I would place on F2P players (by definition they've never spent a penny on the game) is to chat ban them from all channels except party, operations, and guild. Perhaps, as others have suggested, it would make sense to give them a "free" channel that others could choose to join if they wanted. This could help new, free players who are test driving get questions answered.

 

But that's not really where this game is. They've made the decision to let anyone play all the way through the end of chapter 3 of their story for free. Level cap is still 50, right? That scheme requires a different level of restrictions that probably feels a whole lot more like Rift than SWTOR game test did.

 

I think that's probably a bad thing for the game. I think the lower level cap "test drive" mode would be better.

Edited June 6, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Mazikeen]

Historically, in most F2P hybrid systems F2P players spend much more on the game than subscribed players do....in some cases as much as 25 percent more over less time.

 

It's actually not difficult to understand why this might happen....prices for unlocks and the like tend to sit well above the cost of a single payment for a 30 day sub.

 

I'm gonna be perfectly blunt here: the F2P players who spend that much on cash shops have problems. I'm not saying this insult them, I'm saying it for a reason. Players who spend a ton of money on cash shops generally fall into 3 categories, in my experiences:

1) Players who cannot do math

2) Players with too much income

3) Players with no self control. Many people (and this has been shown in banking for a lot of years) fail to consider accumulated costs and instead only count immediate costs. This means they see '$1.99' and figure 'oh, it's only two bucks, I can spend two bucks' but fail to consider that they've spent that $2 repeatedly over the past, say, month. Eating out and things like cigarettes/beer are prime examples of relatively small expenditures adding up to massive amounts over time. Things like electricity/water waste, wasted food, etc also add up. This is part of why some people can live on relatively little income comfortably while others make much more but are always broke or in debt.

 

Number 3 is what companies count on, much like casino owners, because self-control is not something that is openly taught in today's society. Example: I was raised to eat until I was no longer hungry and this morning I saw a commercial for a weight-control drug with actors constantly asking 'am I full?' and 'have I had enough?' - no self-control, take our pill and you can still gorge yourself until you can't anymore, our drug will simply fool you into thinking you're fuller sooner.

 

So, for the TL;DR crowd, F2P is fine. Companies realized they can open up cash shops to people with either no sense or no control and they'll make more money doing so, and their stats prove this works. The more things they make you unlock, the more you spend, so making unlockable things free for you means they make less money. Do the math and sub or accept that you have to pay for individual unlocks.

 

Though, for some, the current system works nicely (like the hardcore F2P-PvP crowd).

[Mazikeen]

I think a better way to test drive might be to let everyone do everything (few exception, momentarily) up to a certain point, then require cash beyond that.

 

This is pretty much how it is now. You can still play, still equip greens/blues (which are pretty much all you get at lower levels), still get basic quickslots and still get limited access to try PvP/FPs. You can try plenty of things.

[Uncle_Robo]

I think the current f2p system works, but can be improved.

I probably would not have tried the game if it were not f2p. EA is smart in not making everything unlockable (such as sending multiple mail attachments, sending companions on multiple crafting missions, guild repair funds, no credit cap, etc.). If everything were unlockable, then there would be much less incentive to sub since you can buy the unlock once and enjoy the perk without needing to sub.

 

EA should look at improving the current f2p system where it affects subscriber game play.

For example, by restricting flashpoint boss loot rolls on f2p players, f2p players stop doing flashpoints after the third boss loot roll. Same for the restrictions on warzones. If these restrictions generate lots of sales of warzone and flashpoint passes, then the f2p system works as EA intended. But if sales of these passes are low, there appears little reason to continue these restrictions.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Uncle_Robo

[TORtanked]

I find it funny that people who pay subs sit here complaining about it. Why would you?

 

Oh yes, you wanna stop paying for this game and still have all the benefits of a sub and at the same time BW should keep the servers running without income or make this game a complete CM fest with constant in game advertising etc.

Stopped right there. ToR is already a CM fest and they're always advertizing on the forums and general website and in game. BUY ME ON THE CM FOR UNLIMITED/MORE ACCESS.