Vanguard Assault Specialist Guide

[TACeMossie]

Nice. I'll have to give that a whirl when I get home. I never quite got the hang of the advanced rotation from the old guide, though I was starting to get there, my parses were a little too tentative to match up, so I never brought it out for any real fights. So I mainly used a hybrid that was mostly based on the basic rotation, except for gambling on RNG only when stockstrike was going to be up and I could use the saved energy for a DoT (so if AP was up and I saw SS would be up in the right GCD, instead of IP/HS/SS, I'd do AP/HS/SS.)

 

Thanks for all your work, the guide's been a great help.

 

Few thoughts/question on the updated one...

 

- You mention replacing alacrity with surge in the gearing, I assume you mean vs. the token gear. I'm so used to just pulling out the upgrades to swap in it didn't even register at first that that's what you meant, could maybe just just a touch of clarification?

 

I wish alacrity only came from the comm gear. Stupid helmet and gloves. Whos bright idea was it to make 2 of the 5 set bonus pieces for vanguard DPS have alacrity enforced on them anyway?

 

- The more surge means more crit section is clear if you read through it, but for skimmers or new folks drowning in info, maybe just a quick note by the numbers, like:

 

So readers who stack too much alacrity in their reading style don't miss out on that part?

 

I planned ahead

See the fancy graphs underneath? They're the recommended crit range. As you can see, the top 0.5% range is HUGE, like about 0-450 rating for underworld gear, for example (dont ask why that graph decided to stop at 500 rating, it just did).

 

- The 4x3x5 block thing I'm going to need to sit down and work through on a dummy when I get home, but it's definitely not clicking now. Hopefully I'll be able to give some more directed and useful feedback after I give it a whirl. How do you pick which 3 blocks of 4 you use in a row, just based on CDs? Is the 1-9 numbering ordered in any way, or just a pile of options? When I look at the big rotation picture in order, I can't decipher how you got from the 1-9 list to that, since the ordering of the two seem quite different.

 

The numbers were literally a pile of options. When I put them into the big rotation picture, I did it with the priority of:

Incendiary Round every 18 seconds

Assault Plastique every 15 seconds

Stockstrike every 9 seconds

and ended up with that. And dont worry, it is energy neutral (even slightly positive if RNG doesn't stuff up)

 

- For Stockstrike:

 

Coming right after saying IR's usage may vary depending on proc luck, do you mean it'll actually be exactly half or IR's varying use (so 9-9.75s) or used on CD/every 9s?

 

Since IR is used once every 18 second block and SS twice every 18 second block (block length can be delayed by bad RNG to up to 21 seconds), the average cooldown of stockstrike should be exactly half of IRs in the parse. So if IR averaged a 19 second cooldown, Stockstrike would average 9.5 seconds.

 

- Lastly, from the intro:

 

Isn't this a buff to defense chance and thus not applicable to certain attack types? Maybe "avoid any defendable damage" instead of "resist any damage"? (Assuming that's how it actually works, of course.)

 

If it only increased defense chance, that would be the case. However, a quick test in game shows that if you use it, not only is your defense chance boosted by 25%, but so is your Force/Tech resist chance. This means everything can be resisted.

 

In other words, my explanation of "25% extra chance to resist all damage" literally means, all damage. I've eaten balls on Brontes with it, for example, despite them being considered tech attacks.

 

Answers were put in red so I dont have to break up the quote block or anything.

Enjoy

[WillLongstick]

On the Assault opener you have (ignoring Shoulder Cannon spam):

 

AP > IR > HIB > SS (should note IP is needed if you dont proc) > HIB

 

That's straightforward and standard. The next block you're losing DPS and aggro though since you're on Adrenal/Battle Focus time. Instead of IP > HS > IP > HIB you should do IP > IP with Thermal Sensor Override > IP > HIB to end up with the same heat and more DPS. Then you continue on with the SS > AP > IP > HIB you have listed and keep using Ion Pulse as filler until you're at high enough heat to use Vent Heat, which will likely set you at 0 heat again. Can't get torparse to load and see the actual time but you can go the first 30-45 seconds without having to Hammer Shot.

[TACeMossie]

On the Assault opener you have (ignoring Shoulder Cannon spam):

 

AP > IR > HIB > SS (should note IP is needed if you dont proc) > HIB

 

That's straightforward and standard. The next block you're losing DPS and aggro though since you're on Adrenal/Battle Focus time. Instead of IP > HS > IP > HIB you should do IP > IP with Thermal Sensor Override > IP > HIB to end up with the same heat and more DPS. Then you continue on with the SS > AP > IP > HIB you have listed and keep using Ion Pulse as filler until you're at high enough heat to use Vent Heat, which will likely set you at 0 heat again. Can't get torparse to load and see the actual time but you can go the first 30-45 seconds without having to Hammer Shot.

 

Trust me, I have a very good reason for using hammer shots there.

 

That reason being later on, the rotation becomes:

 

IR -> IP -> SS -> (Reserve Powercell) AP -> HiB -> IP -> IP -> HiB

 

Without the reserve powercell there, you have to HS where the first IP is, which means the SS may not proc HiB, which means everything is screwed over because you have to choose between AP and proccing HiB (something I absolutely hate and do everything to avoid)

 

Similarly, Recharge Cells is required to maintain heat in the second set of rotations, where you go:

 

HS -> IP -> IP -> AP -> SS -> HiB -> IP -> (IP ->) HiB -> (Recharge Cells) IR -> IP -> SS

 

See, in Assault Spec, you dont use the resource regen skills as offensive cooldowns, but rather to maintain the rotation. Hammer Shots under Adrenals/Relics/Battle Focus is a necessary evil because of this.

Edited September 11, 2014 by TACeMossie

[TACeMossie]

Just noticed something,

 

Is losing the 1 Point in Brutal Impact going to hamper my DPS more than losing 1 point in Blaster Augs and taking 2 in Brutal Impact? the Crit on my Pyro PT is already at 28% Tech Crit, so i Crit pretty often.

 

Also, Have you tried this Opener?

 

(Preload SC) > IR > SG (Sticky Grenade) > TD > BF + Adrenal > (Spam SC) > HiB > SS > HiB (If proc) > (No Proc) IP

 

Does it deal more DPS due to Sticky Grenade? Or is it a DPS Loss?

 

It was discussed multiple times whether it would be more benefitial to run Brutal Impact or the extra crit chance, and the end result is the extra crit chance did approximately 1% better overall @ 29% tech crit, 75% surge. This is mainly because the benefits of the 3% damage boost on rail shot are additive with other bonus's, so as opposed to the 3% it looks like, its a mere 2.5% increase on the rail shot damage

 

As for putting sticky grenade in the opener, I use it rarely - mainly in cases where I can't do damage anyway, and theres gonna be a lot of AoE damage going out. Mainly because it harms your resource management and that Ion Pulse does more damage than it.

 

If you are mixing in sticky grenade, do it more like:

 

SG -> AP -> IR -> (BF/Adrenal/SC Spam) HiB -> continue with rotation.

 

Examples of using sticky grenade:

 

When your stuck at 30 meters (e.g. Tyrans)

When your monster you are attacking in HM/NiM Bestia got a buff and will last for 1-3 more seconds (SG on a non buffed monster > IP on a buffed monster)

When the boss has a temporary invincibility buff that is about to fall off(e.g. Calphayus final phase, Raptus during crystal grabbing phase, Brontes just before supremacy phase)

 

Guardian trash in DP with saber reflect (SG at 3 seconds remaining, AP at 1.5 seconds remaining)

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

It was discussed multiple times whether it would be more benefitial to run Brutal Impact or the extra crit chance, and the end result is the extra crit chance did approximately 1% better overall @ 29% tech crit, 75% surge. This is mainly because the benefits of the 3% damage boost on rail shot are additive with other bonus's, so as opposed to the 3% it looks like, its a mere 2.5% increase on the rail shot damage

 

As for putting sticky grenade in the opener, I use it rarely - mainly in cases where I can't do damage anyway, and theres gonna be a lot of AoE damage going out. Mainly because it harms your resource management and that Ion Pulse does more damage than it.

 

If you are mixing in sticky grenade, do it more like:

 

SG -> AP -> IR -> (BF/Adrenal/SC Spam) HiB -> continue with rotation.

 

Examples of using sticky grenade:

 

When your stuck at 30 meters (e.g. Tyrans)

When your monster you are attacking in HM/NiM Bestia got a buff and will last for 1-3 more seconds (SG on a non buffed monster > IP on a buffed monster)

When the boss has a temporary invincibility buff that is about to fall off(e.g. Calphayus final phase, Raptus during crystal grabbing phase, Brontes just before supremacy phase)

 

Guardian trash in DP with saber reflect (SG at 3 seconds remaining, AP at 1.5 seconds remaining)

 

The reason for IR to start is to have some flavor of Fire Effect to buff... oh.. apparently Rain of Fire doesnt buff Assault Plastique... that's a shame... (Bioware Plz add in 3.0!) Well, i feel dumb now...

 

Edit: I checked the tooltips, and in raw damage, Sticky Grenade deals more damage, and with Pyro/*Insert new Assault VG Name Here*'s Crit and Surge usage, i think it pulls out to a DPS "Gain" but this remains un-tested, the heat/ammo on the rotation though would be obnoxious to maintain... I hope that they buff either Sticky Grenade or Mortar Volley for PT/VG in 3.0 you know, add it into the rotation or something for Pyro/*Insert new Assault VG Name Here*

Edited October 8, 2014 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[eatmydeece]

The reason for IR to start is to have some flavor of Fire Effect to buff... oh.. apparently Rain of Fire doesnt buff Assault Plastique... that's a shame... (Bioware Plz add in 3.0!) Well, i feel dumb now...

 

Edit: I checked the tooltips, and in raw damage, Sticky Grenade deals more damage, and with Pyro/*Insert new Assault VG Name Here*'s Crit and Surge usage, i think it pulls out to a DPS "Gain" but this remains un-tested, the heat/ammo on the rotation though would be obnoxious to maintain... I hope that they buff either Sticky Grenade or Mortar Volley for PT/VG in 3.0 you know, add it into the rotation or something for Pyro/*Insert new Assault VG Name Here*

 

Trust me, if you've played pt/vg you will know that neither of those abilities (death from above, explosive dart) need a buff.

They hit hard enough for aoe abilities that are outside of the general pyro rotation, death from above especially.

Also as kwerty said with explosive dart - it's damage and heat cost is detrimental to the rotation, pretty much the only time you use explosive dart is for 10m+ while gap closing or using its delayed hit to its maximum effect.

 

There is also no room for another ability in the pyro rotation, unless we get something thats free and/or off the GCD but i think we got that in 2.0

[xxSHOONYxx]

There is also no room for another ability in the pyro rotation, unless we get something thats free and/or off the GCD but i think we got that in 2.0

We could could completely throw the spec on it's head and make it have 5 gcd cycles instead of 4 ... it would throw off EVERYTHING. But I think to make up for the loss of damage from RS only coming every 7.5 seconds you would need something like immolate to be thrown in as well, we could combine a 5 gcd cycle pyro and AP into one spec :eek:

Edited October 11, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[eatmydeece]

We could could completely throw the spec on it's head and make it have 5 gcd cycles instead of 4 ... it would throw off EVERYTHING. But I think to make up for the loss of damage from RS only coming every 7.5 seconds you would need something like immolate to be thrown in as well, we could combine a 5 gcd cycle pyro and AP into one spec :eek:

 

blasphemy

[TACeMossie]

blasphemy

 

/looks at 8/22/16 and 2/22/22...

 

Also Kaos, while the tooltip favors Explosive Dart/Sticky Grenade, It doesn't account for the 30-35% damage loss from armor that Ion Pulse/Flame Burst ignores, and also doesn't account for the 60% chance for a plasma cell/CGC proc from IP/FB either.

 

My personal hope is a pyro version of hemorrhaging blast/weakening blast, as its free, does more than an auto-attack, has a 15 second cooldown, and buffs ya DoTs. Would fit in perfectly with the pyro/assault rotation as the hammer shots locations are usually ~15 seconds apart from each other.

Edited October 12, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Zoom_VI]

There is also no room for another ability in the pyro rotation, unless we get something thats free and/or off the GCD but i think we got that in 2.0

 

Err what? Sticky Grenade costs the same as Ion Pulse, you could use it directly after a HiB in place of a Ion Pulse and not delay a railshot or effect your ammo management in any way, and placing a sticky in such a way would be beneficial if you are going into a phase that benefits from the AoE.

[TACeMossie]

Err what? Sticky Grenade costs the same as Ion Pulse, you could use it directly after a HiB in place of a Ion Pulse and not delay a railshot or effect your ammo management in any way, and placing a sticky in such a way would be beneficial if you are going into a phase that benefits from the AoE.

 

Someone didn't read the section on how the Ionic Accelerator proc works

 

If your gonna do that, you may as well just Mortar Volley/DFA or Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower after the rail shot. Same RNG, Much more damage.

[eatmydeece]

/looks at 8/22/16 and 2/22/22...

 

Also Kaos, while the tooltip favors Explosive Dart/Sticky Grenade, It doesn't account for the 30-35% damage loss from armor that Ion Pulse/Flame Burst ignores, and also doesn't account for the 60% chance for a plasma cell/CGC proc from IP/FB either.

 

My personal hope is a pyro version of hemorrhaging blast/weakening blast , as its free, does more than an auto-attack, has a 15 second cooldown, and buffs ya DoTs. Would fit in perfectly with the pyro/assault rotation as the hammer shots locations are usually ~15 seconds apart from each other.

 

I was never fond of the AP/Pyro hybrid, i stayed full AP until 2.4 then went back to pyro.

 

and a hemorrhaging blast/weakening blast for pyro would be interesting, but our DoTs already hit like a truck, but i think we are losing our 9% mainstat buff in the tree? i dont think i noticed the 6% sorc one.

So unless our main abilities are getting scaled up to suit we may see something like that.

 

Err what? Sticky Grenade costs the same as Ion Pulse, you could use it directly after a HiB in place of a Ion Pulse and not delay a railshot or effect your ammo management in any way, and placing a sticky in such a way would be beneficial if you are going into a phase that benefits from the AoE.

 

Using explosive dart off cd in a pyro single target rotation is a dps loss pure and simple

kwerty covered why so i dont have to

 

Pretty much the only time you use explosive dart is for 10m+ while gap closing/stuck at range or utilizing its delayed hit.

In terms of AOE dmg we have alot better abilities to use over it.

If we have to AOE that much, may as well spec AP

[TACeMossie]

I was never fond of the AP/Pyro hybrid, i stayed full AP until 2.4 then went back to pyro.

 

I knew I wasn't the only one! (Though I rolled my VG half way through 2.2 and he was mostly a tank till 2.4 came out, when I started going full Assault. I did dabble in 8/10/28 before 2.4 though)

[xxSHOONYxx]

/looks at 8/22/16 and 2/22/22...

 

RIP in peace

 

and a hemorrhaging blast/weakening blast for pyro would be interesting, but our DoTs already hit like a truck, but i think we are losing our 9% mainstat buff in the tree? i dont think i noticed the 6% sorc one.

So unless our main abilities are getting scaled up to suit we may see something like that.

There's always a bigger truck

Edited October 12, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[Zoom_VI]

Someone didn't read the section on how the Ionic Accelerator proc works

 

If your gonna do that, you may as well just Mortar Volley/DFA or Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower after the rail shot. Same RNG, Much more damage.

 

So you are claiming that PPA only procs if and only if IP is used both as the filler and as the proc?

[TACeMossie]

So you are claiming that PPA only procs if and only if IP is used both as the filler and as the proc?

 

Only has a 100% proc. It can proc, but its 45% without an IP or SS filler, and said filler has to take place after the High Impact Bolt for the 100% situation to happen

[Zoom_VI]

One of these days they will update the tooltip for that damn talent.

[JMagee]

One of these days they will update the tooltip for that damn talent.

 

I don't think anyone actually knows what is the proper function of IA proc. As TAC points out, if you go HIB-SS-x-IP you're guaranteed to proc IA with that IP.

 

If you go HIB-X-IP-IP there's no guarantee that you'll get IA on the 2nd IP.

 

I don't know if the % proc chances are somehow additive and no one is aware that it is actually coded that way, or if there's something buggy about that first attack after HIB that sets the 1st attack after the ICD wears off to be 100%, but there's something "off" somewhere.

 

My money is that the first attack after HIB triggers something that it probably shouldn't. I had a discussion with gyro about this, it's exactly the same for Commandos.

[TACeMossie]

I don't think anyone actually knows what is the proper function of IA proc. As TAC points out, if you go HIB-SS-x-IP you're guaranteed to proc IA with that IP.

 

If you go HIB-X-IP-IP there's no guarantee that you'll get IA on the 2nd IP.

 

I don't know if the % proc chances are somehow additive and no one is aware that it is actually coded that way, or if there's something buggy about that first attack after HIB that sets the 1st attack after the ICD wears off to be 100%, but there's something "off" somewhere.

 

My money is that the first attack after HIB triggers something that it probably shouldn't. I had a discussion with gyro about this, it's exactly the same for Commandos.

 

I think it works slightly different with commandos.

 

I noticed that so long as the rotation is one of:

 

HiB, Filler, Proccer, Proccer (Proc happens here)

HiB, Proccer, Filler, Proccer (Proc happens here)

HiB, Proccer, Proccer, Proccer (Proc happens here)

Filler, HiB, Proccer, Proccer (Proc happens here)

Proccer, HiB, Proccer, Proccer (Proc happens here)

 

You have a 100% proc rate

(Filler = Non SS/IP/HiB, Proccer = SS/IP)

 

Its only when you leave a single GCD after the HiB that things start going haywire (e.g. AP -> SS -> HiB -> IP has RNG, while AP -> HiB -> SS -> IP does not)

 

Tested repeatedly for the sake of writing up my guide with really, really good accuracy.

[TheRampage]

Just a quick question, maybe you responded it but I'm lazy?

 

You take full aim bonus over damage increase of bolt, is that worth it in the end since bolt is our highest damaging ability in the end of any fight, or increased aim buffs everything overall so it is worth taking over it?

 

I'm running with bolt bonus, satisfied so far, but if this is better...

[TACeMossie]

Just a quick question, maybe you responded it but I'm lazy?

 

You take full aim bonus over damage increase of bolt, is that worth it in the end since bolt is our highest damaging ability in the end of any fight, or increased aim buffs everything overall so it is worth taking over it?

 

I'm running with bolt bonus, satisfied so far, but if this is better...

 

Its come up in a few other threads, but fair enough for not seeing it here (mainly cause this is the first time )

 

the 3% aim is chosen over the 3% HiB damage as the 3% aim affects everything (even though its actually a 2.7% boost), while the 3% HiB damage is only affecting 22% of your damage (at a 2.5% increase), as such the use of the extra point in HiB damage isn't worth as much as the extra bit of Aim boost.

 

For example, in dread masters gear that 3% aim boost is about a 1.2% dps increase overall (assuming 2/3 for aim boost and 1/2 for HiB damage), while the 3% HiB damage is about a 0.55% dps increase overall.

[meisterjedi]

As mentioned in the other thread I use my AP PT a bit different. I value my Flame Barrage (proc for RP/SS) very high to play for the most resources. This guide uses RP/SS every 6-7 GCDs, where I only use it when it's free and keep on fishing for a proc even when RP/SS is already off cooldown with FB/IP.

On top of that I usually delay my Immolate/Fire Pulse by 1 GCD if Imolate and RP/SS are off cd at the same time and I already have a proc to preserve Immolates guaranteed proc.

 

In General my Priorities are:

Retractable Blade

FT/PC

DFA/MV

RS

RP/SS(only with proc)

Immolate/Fire Pulse

FB/IP

 

I am however not 100% shure if delaying Immolate/Fire Pulse for the additional proc is indeed the best course of action. I did not test this with conclusive results yet, if that is even possible as the DPS difference seems to be rather small. As since denova nim I'm mostly on tank duty I didn't bother with theese minimal DPS variations. If I remember correctly Kerens PT simulator from before 2.0 showed the above priorities as optimal, but that might have changed since then and Immolate on cd could be better.

Edited October 20, 2014 by meisterjedi

[TACeMossie]

As mentioned in the other thread I use my AP PT a bit different. I value my Flame Barrage (proc for RP/SS) very high to play for the most resources. This guide uses RP/SS every 6-7 GCDs, where I only use it when it's free and keep on fishing for a proc even when RP/SS is already off cooldown with FB/IP.

On top of that I usually delay my Immolate/Fire Pulse by 1 GCD if Imolate and RP/SS are off cd at the same time and I already have a proc to preserve Immolates guaranteed proc.

 

In General my Priorities are:

Retractable Blade

FT/PC

DFA/MV

RS

RP/SS(only with proc)

Immolate/Fire Pulse

FB/IP

 

I am however not 100% shure if delaying Immolate/Fire Pulse for the additional proc is indeed the best course of action. I did not test this with conclusive results yet, if that is even possible as the DPS difference seems to be rather small. As since denova nim I'm mostly on tank duty I didn't bother with theese minimal DPS variations. If I remember correctly Kerens PT simulator from before 2.0 showed the above priorities as optimal, but that might have changed since then and Immolate on cd could be better.

 

Haha wrong thread (You put this in the assault thread when it was supposed to be in the tactics one ). I'll have a look at it though.

[meisterjedi]

Ups, didn't see the other one burried on page 2

As the opening post redirected to both guides and I didn't see the other one I just assumed the title was not updated

Edited October 20, 2014 by meisterjedi

[MackTK]

I added a new section on Ammo Dumping to finish off targets under "The Burn". Feel free to check it out but be warned, its very, very delicate trying to pull it off, and can result in a snowball effect if you start it too early or without enough ammo.

 

Hello and thanks for your guide.

 

I can't seem to find where this "Burn" section is. I was curious, as I had the impresion the Vanguards don't have an execution phase (except Burnout ability which applies to DOTS which you should use anyway). Can you detaliate what happens under 30% target's HP?

 

Thank you.