Something needs to be done

[RedVale]

They need to add diff tiers to GSF based on peoples ships. Constantly pub and imp side I get into matches where the other team is is so upgraded that its a no contest to the point that the ques for GSF are 15 to 20 mins long cause people just don't want to do it.

 

Im not saying add a bolster cause that would suck but add a tier system based on the current players ship experiance

[dailus]

I believe most of what you are seeing can be attributed to pilot skill. Most well practiced pilots can do pretty well even in a starter ship.

[-Streven-]

I believe most of what you are seeing can be attributed to pilot skill. Most well practiced pilots can do pretty well even in a starter ship.

 

Truth. On a new toon I recently went something like 13/11/2 83000 damage with a stock starguard. That may have been my best round ever and it was done in a stock ship.

 

Also interesting since we are talking about matchmaking, in that round and several others that night I was getting matched up with almost all two shippers i. e. new pilots like my new toon. When I switched over to my main with several mastered ships I was getting paired with pilots of similar skill and ship composition. In other words, matchmaking was working.

 

With enough players matchmaking works. With enough playtime bad pilots get good.

[Kaisernick]

that may be true for some part but the game as it is now is horrid.

 

upgraded fighters can one hit kill new pilots and if your in a group of all upgrades there's no contest its boring, same can be said for being against a full upgraded group u might as well just give up straight away as it can be a nightmare as new pilots are just that new they are still learning the ropes and can get wasted very easily.

[SammyGStatus]

that may be true for some part but the game as it is now is horrid.

 

upgraded fighters can one hit kill new pilots and if your in a group of all upgrades there's no contest its boring, same can be said for being against a full upgraded group u might as well just give up straight away as it can be a nightmare as new pilots are just that new they are still learning the ropes and can get wasted very easily.

 

Don't get hit. This may seem easier said than done, especially at the beginning, but the best way to learn is to do things wrong. If you take damage, press r to find out who hit you and their distance away (that'll let you know if there are gunships or sentries lurking). If you're in a dogfight, chances are your ship just hasn't been tuned yet. You're not supposed to be a god in your first match. If you're in a match where everyone on your side is in only two ships, chances are you will get face stomped. Not even a great pilot teamed along side 7 other new pilots is going to win. That's the breaks - you earn your abilities, but by learning how to play THE CLASS, you're going to be much better off in the future. For example, why give a T5 pro torp to someone who doesn't even know that you need to hold down the right click for the missile lock to occur?

 

With the intro to GSF quest and the first set of dailies / weeklies, you can have T1's in the most important of places. I recommend this: Try to not spend req until you either a) know what you're doing, or b)have someone who does help you out! On my first GSF toon, Leggogurl, I was horrrrrrrribly outfitted. My GS was running with stock lasers at T3, Fortress shield @ T3, Slug / Plasma (with exclusive use to slug), Engine Power Converter, etc. I had to talk to arguably the best gunship I've played against to this day before realizing how terrible my build really was (back in pre-2.6 days where they still had a lot of work to do with overall balance). Had I had a conversation with him first, I could've gotten my T5 Ion a lot faster (something I didn't even realize that was the bread and butter of the GS for CC), as well as not wasted a ton of requisition. This is something I think new players fail to do - ask for help. Everyone just expects to be able to rock out hard in their first match, but it's like 55 PVP as a new player with no expertise vs someone who has full 67s. You're just not going to compete.

 

To be completely honest, the Tier upgrades are second to pilot skill. As has been stated, many vets can play a stock ship well. It comes from the experience of flying those ships repeatedly and knowing how to play the class. Tiers only become an issue in high level matches. The gap between your gear and your opponent's gear is less significant until both of you know what you're doing. While it's true that a stock ship pilot by a new player will not stand long against a seasoned ace, the only way to get to that point is to play against them and learn, get your butt handed to you (unless you join a GSF guild / group with solid players), and spend your req to upgrade your ship. You learn from every match, so regardless of if you get an upgrade for the next match, you're already going to be one step ahead.

 

This is how pvp is - the experienced players will roflstomp you until you learn to stay alive and be effective.

Edited April 26, 2014 by SammyGStatus

[Kaisernick]

. If you're in a match where everyone on your side is in only two ships, chances are you will get face stomped. Not even a great pilot teamed along side 7 other new pilots is going to win. That's the breaks - you earn your abilities, but by learning how to play THE CLASS, you're going to be much better off in the future. For example, why give a T5 pro torp to someone who doesn't even know that you need to hold down the right click for the missile lock to occur?

 

that the point thougth nearly every time at least on my server its always 1 good pilot and the rest are 2ship pilots against about 4 players with 4 or 5 ships and it never seems to balance out at any time of the day.

[Fractalsponge]

More population is the only real fix - either more rewards (FLYING MOUNTS or rancors maybe ) or x-server. I'm leaning more towards more rewards and ground integration tbh, since there are fewer technical hurdles than x-server. And we've seen what cool rewards will do to motivate people to play.

[Kuciwalker]

They need to add diff tiers to GSF based on peoples ships. Constantly pub and imp side I get into matches where the other team is is so upgraded that its a no contest to the point that the ques for GSF are 15 to 20 mins long cause people just don't want to do it.

 

Im not saying add a bolster cause that would suck but add a tier system based on the current players ship experiance

 

It's not upgrades. I just rolled an alt on TEH. In a stock ship I went 15/10/0.

[Verain]

It's not upgrades. I just rolled an alt on TEH. In a stock ship I went 15/10/0.

 

While commendable, you would have scored higher in a mastered ship.

[zaskar]

The answer is new pilot flight training. Make your voices heard in one thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=737434

[DamascusAdontise]

that may be true for some part but the game as it is now is horrid.

 

upgraded fighters can one hit kill new pilots and if your in a group of all upgrades there's no contest its boring, same can be said for being against a full upgraded group u might as well just give up straight away as it can be a nightmare as new pilots are just that new they are still learning the ropes and can get wasted very easily.

 

A Good thread for you to read

 

Also checkout stasies guide in my sig please. What seems like grievous imbalance is a lack of understanding about the game (not trying to be rude just realistic) there are many things you can do to improve your game experience and a LOT of it is coordinating with other players to form your own groups. Most of these groups will fall to any organized competition, so get out there and fight back.

 

The problem is exactly as you stated: "People dont want to play when there are good pilots" but you can see the danger in this, if you never play against pilots who are better than you then you will never learn, never get better. Most players simply throw up their hands and give up immediately, the players who are good took their licks, modded their ships, and joined groups.

 

it all depends on if you want to be successful or not and are willing to spend the time to get there, its not always fun but there are rewards (like getting better and better) and I certainly love it, its not for everyone though (very competitive.)

 

As others have said matchmaking is dependent on how many players are queuing, if there are enough for 2-3 games then you will have some matchmaking, less than that and maybe not. Not really a weakness of the system, its a weakness of the player base unfortunately. Im hoping for cross server pvp someday soon, this would make it a really really fun environment.

[General_Brass]

I believe most of what you are seeing can be attributed to pilot skill. Most well practiced pilots can do pretty well even in a starter ship.

 

Sigh.

 

Good Pilot in stock ship vs New Pilots in stock ships = Does well

Good Pilot in upgraded ship vs New Pilots = does well

Good pilot in base ship vs Team of good pilots = does poorly

Typical pilot mix vs Premade Team on voice = Blow out.

 

That meme has to die in a fire.

[SammyGStatus]

Sigh.

 

Good Pilot in stock ship vs New Pilots in stock ships = Does well

Good Pilot in upgraded ship vs New Pilots = does well

Good pilot in base ship vs Team of good pilots = does poorly

Typical pilot mix vs Premade Team on voice = Blow out.

 

That meme has to die in a fire.

 

So be a stock ship and group with other players! There is nothing preventing you from doing the same thing as your opposition.

[General_Brass]

 

The problem is exactly as you stated: "People dont want to play when there are good pilots" but you can see the danger in this, if you never play against pilots who are better than you then you will never learn, never get better. Most players simply throw up their hands and give up immediately, the players who are good took their licks, modded their ships, and joined groups.

 

That's creating a strawman. A more accurate phrasing would be " People don't want to play when the sides are so incredibly imbalanced that it makes it impossible to have any enjoyment in the game.". A little on the tautological side but a much more accurate description of the situation.

 

So be a stock ship and group with other players! There is nothing preventing you from doing the same thing as your opposition.

 

Dude what you are saying is the gateway to enjoying this game is finding 3 pilots who will take an unupgraded noob under their wing and getting TS. You might as well just say "So they are lag hacking why don't you do the same ? There's nothing preventing you".

[Armonddd]

Good pilot in base ship vs Team of good pilots = does poorly

Typical pilot mix vs Premade Team on voice = Blow out.

 

One good pilot verses a team of good pilots degenerates into 1v8 (or 2v5 or whatever).

 

Typical uncoordinated pugs verses a coordinated voip team is usually going to be bad (not blowout bad, but bad), though an ace or two with the pugs can easily turn things depending on the quality of the premade.

[-Streven-]

That's creating a strawman. A more accurate phrasing would be " People don't want to play when the sides are so incredibly imbalanced that it makes it impossible to have any enjoyment in the game.". A little on the tautological side but a much more accurate description of the situation.

 

 

 

Dude what you are saying is the gateway to enjoying this game is finding 3 pilots who will take an unupgraded noob under their wing and getting TS. You might as well just say "So they are lag hacking why don't you do the same ? There's nothing preventing you".

 

I've had plenty of matches where my team was severely outmatched and going to lose and I still had fun. You don't need a group and you certainly don't have to win every match to have fun. I like being the underdog. That guy who won't quit. Whatever happened to pride and honor?

[General_Brass]

I've had plenty of matches where my team was severely outmatched and going to lose and I still had fun. You don't need a group and you certainly don't have to win every match to have fun. I like being the underdog. That guy who won't quit. Whatever happened to pride and honor?

 

I have been in battles where all three spawn points where camped and it was literally impossible to spawn without being killed. There's being an underdog and then there's being the meat in the grinder.

 

Put it another way, 50-20 is an underdog, 50-0 is a joke.

Edited April 26, 2014 by General_Brass

[-Streven-]

I have been in battles where all three spawn points where camped and it was literally impossible to spawn without being killed. There's being an underdog and then there's being the meat in the grinder.

 

Put it another way, 50-20 is an underdog, 50-0 is a joke.

 

I have thankfully never seen that. My question to you is why couldn't you barrell roll/boost away from the spawn?

[General_Brass]

I have thankfully never seen that. My question to you is why couldn't you barrell roll/boost away from the spawn?

 

Well of the ships I had

 

My strike fighter only had Koiogran turn

Scout nailed by mines.

 

The only strategy I could think of would have to been to have a sacrifice spawn detonate the mines and then have everyone else follow fast , and saturate the campers. TBH I don't think that was possible to coordinate through the chat interface.

[Kheld]

I have been in battles where all three spawn points where camped and it was literally impossible to spawn without being killed. There's being an underdog and then there's being the meat in the grinder.

 

Put it another way, 50-20 is an underdog, 50-0 is a joke.

 

That sort of result is quite common.

 

Ive been on the winning & losing side of 50-1, or 50-under 10 quite a few times. Domination too, with wins & losses of 1000-38, 1000-55 etc.

 

GSF suffers from the same problems that all MMO PvP does; Premade on voice wins all v PUGs, gear (upgraded ships) also counts hugely.

 

GSF also has a steep learning curve due to the poor tutorial. As a old X-Wing / TIE fighter player I pretty much knew what I was doing even before reading all the help threads on the forums, a new player probably doesn't have that experience.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Kheld

[SammyGStatus]

On TEH yesterday, my n Swans were going between the factions if we dominated one side like 4 matches in a row. The weird thing was that as soon as we hopped sides, we went up a group of 2 ships. This makes me think that there are two games (at least) going on, and 1 side per faction is going against the new players. I don't understand why they can't fix these things

[Korithras]

My biggest issue with this is the effect it will have on queue times. One of the nice things about GSF is that level doesn't matter, ship upgrades don't matter. Everybody who queues is all in the same queue. And queue times are long enough as it is, and depending on the time of day? They're horrid. This will just make that particular problem worse.

 

So I say no. Suck it up buttercup and learn how to fly and you won't die so much.

[General_Brass]

My biggest issue with this is the effect it will have on queue times. One of the nice things about GSF is that level doesn't matter, ship upgrades don't matter. Everybody who queues is all in the same queue. And queue times are long enough as it is, and depending on the time of day? They're horrid. This will just make that particular problem worse.

 

So I say no. Suck it up buttercup and learn how to fly and you won't die so much.

 

Long queue times are because people don't want to play. Many people that would want to play don't want to have to go through a hundred + curbstompings to get gear.

[LilSaihah]

Long queue times are because people don't want to play. Many people that would want to play don't want to have to go through a hundred + curbstompings to get gear.

 

On my server at least, it seems possible for new players to get their wings while the more experienced players carry the match.

 

I agree with the general sentiment that breaking up the community even more could cause serious issues for queue times. Being able to play the game at all is better than having no games under a 'fair' matchmaking system.

[MrsMolle]

Long queue times are because people don't want to play. Many people that would want to play don't want to have to go through a hundred + curbstompings to get gear.

 

The tutorial is horrid. Freelancer tutorial from how many many years ago was lightyears ahead. Nothing is shooting at you in the tutorial, there's no way to get used to the overheads, moving targeting, and maneuvering. It's like watching a video on driving and then sticking that person behind the wheel on a Jersey highway.

 

Queue times? I play late night weekends, and it took me 2 weeks just to finish the 1 starter mission on PoT5, republic. None of my friends who play like GSF.

 

Smart programming would be programmed NPCs or Wingmen for lacking numbered matches and/or smaller number requirements. Smart planning would be single virtual server environments for this and other PVP.