2.7 and GSF - Ready for the big "meh" :(

[Nemarus]

I know the GSF community is excited because 2.7 is going to introduce some new and big changes ... but the more I think about them, the more I feel a distinct sense of "meh".

 

The new map is Domination, so it's just window dressing really. The vast majority of fighting will be close around the satellites, and the spawn positions being slightly different isn't going to affect much beyond the initial sat rush. The match will still be won or lost based on Bomber stacking.

 

While we all want a new gametype, I know that will take time to develop. Still, I think they could've gotten a lot more value/variety by doing a new TDM map, if they don't have a new gametype ready. Map plays a much larger role in TDM than in Domination, and skilled Scouts and Strikes can still do well in TDM.

 

As for the new ships, I don't see either one really being a game-changer in any respect. The new Strike is interesting in that it can be built to be more durable than even a Bomber. Repair Probes is a good new component that will lessen the influence of hull damage attrition. But the new Strike has very little offensive capability, and none of its armaments will be as effective at sat conquering/holding as Seismic/Interdiction mines are. Additionally, the Sensor Component doesn't make much sense--if the new Strike is supposed to be healing its allies, then it will always be in communications range. And there will doubtless be a Scout or Gunship in that communications range who has far longer sensor range than the Strike itself can get. That leaves Dampening ... which likely won't be that useful either, since the third Strike is best served by being in the thick of things supporting its allies. And I still don't get what the point of Combat Command is. I can't imagine a strategic moment where giving my allies a temporary buff to accuracy and weapon regen will turn the tide.

 

The new Scout is garbage in my opinion, which is a shame since it's the best looking Imperial ship in GSF and the model we've long been clamoring for. The only way it becomes interesting is if EMP and/or Ion Missiles get huge buffs, making them so powerful that we really feel the hurt if we fly a Blackbolt/NovaDrive or Sting/Flashfire. Tensor Field is mildly interesting, but it's only going to have a predictable tactical effect at the very start of Domination matches--and in most cases both teams will have at least one Scout with it, so it'll be a wash (unless Tensor Fields stack?)

 

Really, the biggest difference between 2.6 and 2.7 is going to be the increased cooldown on Barrel Roll and other engine abilities. That's going to make Gunships die a lot more and is going to increase the relative mobility and speed of Scouts (good things) compared to other classes.

 

Unfortunately, it will change little for the two classes that need change the most: the Strike remains underpowered (and now will have a harder time even keeping up with Scouts), and the Bomber (which can't even take evasive maneuvers) remains overpowered due to its ability to deal obscene damage without aiming, its power with stock components, and the multiplicative benefits of stacking multiple Bombers in the same tight area.

 

I guess with two new ships (even if they are underwhelming), we at least can look forward to more people flying them just for completionism, and thus we'll see less Bombers for a few weeks.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Nemarus

[TrinityLyre]

I think many of the veterans are happy to receive anything new at this point. Denon looks awesome and while it may be mostly window dressing, it's very good looking window dressing. I don't know about others, but I dread seeing the loading screen for Kuat Mesas Domination (I swear, it feels like that map pops twice as much as anything else). I also imagine that Denon Exosphere will have a TDM counterpart in June, since they'd be reusing a lot of assets already in the domination map. I'm not expecting a new game mode for a while, though I would love that as much as you.

 

Engine maneuver nerfs will undoubtedly slow the game down. My concern is the same as yours - the ships getting an indirect benefit here are the ones running Distortion Field. These, for the most part are the "overtuned" ships, with slight exceptions. In the case of the Mangler/Quarrel, it is having its mobility toned down but not its offensive capability, which seems to be what most people complain about (lolion). Strike fighters are going to be able to land their missiles more often, but having two (or more) missile breaks on each of these ships is a big deal. I think we'll just end up seeing more LOSing in the game, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It'll also help people cope with gunship fire more.

 

I also agree with the new ships feeling a bit 'meh'. I like that they tried to do something new but they compensated by removing all the solid damage components players actually want. As another poster mentioned in his own thread I'm never excited about using Ion Missile (or EMP Missile, for that matter). Despite all this, I'm excited. It's something new to play around with since I won't instantly be mastering these ships. Tensor Field was fun to use on PTS and though it doesn't compensate for what's lost, fun is all I play this game for. We also haven't seen the finalized patch notes (have we?) for this upcoming patch, there may be more tweaks in the works.

 

There's also a double XP weekend rolling around soon, we can all roll on different servers and change things up a bit. Chin up and look at the bright side.

Edited April 7, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Ramalina]

I think the new strike fighters look quite promising, but they really won't realize their potential unless flying in close support with other ships.

 

In general, GSF play would benefit from more teamwork, so I sort of like the idea of ships that give disproportionately good rewards when flown as part of a team rather than flown by rabid lone wolf types.

 

It'll be interesting to see how much the cooldown nerfs affect missile effectiveness. Some of the lock-on times and ranges might still need a bit of attention, but maybe not quite as much.

 

I'll just need to ease off on raid and alt-leveling a bit so I have time for GSF again. So, not really excited about it, but I think maybe it rates above, "meh."

 

Eh,. . . it's o.k.

[-Streven-]

I'm intrigued by the barrel roll nerf. Still not sure if I'll remove it from my pike or not. Should make missiles a lot more interesting and gunships a lot more vulnerable.

 

I am neutral about the new support ships. In a highly organized environment they could really be game changers but I'm not feeling it right now. Hopefully they don't make bombers much more difficult to kill. With proper coordination I could see bomberballs benefiting from the new ships quite a bit.

 

The map is a nice and welcome addition. I think more maps and game modes are needed more than anything else right now.

[Slivovidze]

Why the pesimism?

 

The map looks great, and I bet we will get TDM version in next big patch. New game modes would sure be sweet, but since GSF is still new-ish part of game, and the two modes we have aren't perfectly done yet (capital ship situation in TDM, bomber effectivity in Dom), I support not adding third mode to tilt the balance board around even more. Once TDM and Dom are well, or close-to-well balanced, New modes shall come, so devs won't have to balance 3 things at once.

 

Both new ships look awesome (talking Rep now, don't know and don't really care about Empire). Performance will be tougher part here, I agree, but they will still bring new possibilities, new scenarios, new battle situations, and I look forward flying them, especially Spearpoint.

 

Engine parts rebalance would hurt me because I am a Nova pilot and I used BR a lot for travel, but last few days I replaced it by Power Dive and found that I will live, and gunships won't.

 

Alltogether, I am excited as hell. Also I guess new customization stuff will be coming, which me likes a lot.

Sadly I also bet we will have several nice new bugs incoming, hopefully no game breakers, but I am quite sure that till 2.7.1 or 2.7.0a we will have some horrific FotM (or FotW, hopefully FotD)

[Applejacxs]

I consider this patch a setup patch cause while everything seems good that's coming the next really big patch for gsf will be when infiltrator drops. I hope we get a preview soonish for it

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I am neutral about the new support ships. In a highly organized environment they could really be game changers but I'm not feeling it right now. Hopefully they don't make bombers much more difficult to kill. With proper coordination I could see bomberballs benefiting from the new ships quite a bit.

 

So far as the Type 3 strike is concerned I think it has more potential to function as a heavy fighter-bomber than as a support ship. If you think of the Star Guard as an X-Wing and the Pike as a Missile Boat I think the Type 3 Strike will be like a B-Wing/Star Wing (Assault Gunboat). Repair probes allows you to heal after attack runs (and provides more of a heal than hydrospanner) which frees you to take an offensive co-pilot ability without sacrificing healing. If you take the co-pilot bypass that might blend very well with the thermite torpedoes shield bleedthrough effect to make targets (especially bombers) more vulnerable to blaster fire. The only thing really missing from the mix are HLC.

 

IMO it's still kinda crazy that they get RFL/LLC but not HLC since it lacks the agility/mobility to excel at the close range RFL/LLC forces you to fight at and those weapons also don't blend as well with the hull damaging missile weapons (whereas HLC blend perfectly with both protons/thermites and with the lower mobility/agility that favors longer range combat). But we can always hope HLC will get added later.

 

I do agree with the OP though that it makes no sense why strikers get a sensor component.

[Verain]

I'm very excited to have a strike with a sensor component, actually. Mostly for range sensors. However, this is all predicated on sensors being useful- right now, sensors are pretty worthless on ANY ship.

 

I think I'm really gonna like the new ships. I am very interested in their support roles.

[Glzmo]

In general, GSF play would benefit from more teamwork, so I sort of like the idea of ships that give disproportionately good rewards when flown as part of a team rather than flown by rabid lone wolf types.

Agreed. I wish they added new functionality including keybinds for "Use my target for attack", "Cover me", "capture satellite" and more (similar to how it was in X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter/X-Wing Alliance) where your groupmates get the request and hit a key to confirm the request and then auto-target the target that's been requested by their squadmates to be attacked/ship that's attacking them/satellite, etc..

That way, all teams could do proper teamwork instead of just premades with access to teamspeak.

 

By the way, does 2.7 finally introduce joystick support for GSF? I'd love to finally use my flightstick for it instead of the annoying and lackluster mouse control. And at least change throttle so you can dial it up and down without having to keep the key pressed and be able to bind it to the mouse wheel and flightstick throttle.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Glzmo

[Slivovidze]

 

By the way, does 2.7 finally introduce joystick support for GSF? I'd love to finally use my flightstick for it instead of the annoying and lackluster mouse control. And at least change throttle so you can dial it up and down without having to keep the key pressed and be able to bind it to the mouse wheel and flightstick throttle.

 

And I thought that this question is over

Joystick control will most likely never be supported in this arcade shooter, ever. You would not be able to aim fast and precise enough to compete with mouse players and so a big huge overhaul of the whole thing would be needed, which is unlikely to happen.

The throttle control, on the other hand, is reasonable request, sadly also not likely happening.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Slivovidze

[mattycutts]

cant wait for the new ships, think I prefer the new scout over new striker.

[DonWild]

Personally, the only thing I would like to see in Starfighter isn't ever going to happen...a zone open only to scouts and SF's. I love fighter sims, always have; just can't get into Gunships or Bombers...personal taste. But would love to find a place where the zip-ships could play without dodging the bugzappers all the time. Call me a wuss, but would love to get into some furball dogfights without having to worry about running thru bomber laid minefields or suddenly explode because a gunship halfway across the map got a bead on me. Grew up on Spitfire vs. Me109 sims; would love the opportunity to fly star-fighters vs. star-dodgers

[Zharik]

I'm very excited to have a strike with a sensor component, actually. Mostly for range sensors. However, this is all predicated on sensors being useful- right now, sensors are pretty worthless on ANY ship.

 

I think I'm really gonna like the new ships. I am very interested in their support roles.

 

Range and Dampening sensors received a stealth balance. So did the appropriate crew members.

[Ramalina]

And I thought that this question is over

Joystick control will most likely never be supported in this arcade shooter, ever. You would not be able to aim fast and precise enough to compete with mouse players and so a big huge overhaul of the whole thing would be needed, which is unlikely to happen.

The throttle control, on the other hand, is reasonable request, sadly also not likely happening.

 

In theory with certain sufficiently ancient joysticks and drivers it might work, because they just arranged for the computer to treat the joystick as a mouse where the user somehow had enough dexterity to return exactly to a home location. Been at least a decade since I've seen that though, and I don't know if any of that sort made it as far as the invention of USB connectors and plug and play.

 

For throttle I'd settle for a single button throttle lock/unlock. Hit it and your throttle locks at it's current setting. Hit it again to unlock. For that matter, I should dig through the keybinds again to make sure this isn't just something I've overlooked.

[Altheran]

I am disappointed by the up of Thermite Torpedo.

 

Just a few time ago, I succeeded to throw one to a jousting Scout and destroyed the shields before with Cannons. I expected him to take serious damage. But he survived, with a bit less than 10%.

I thought "maybe it's like plasma rail, the DoT will finish him..."

The DoT damaged... removing him hull hp very slowly percent by percent. But a percent of HP of scout, it what 10 ? That's all what my DoT does after a direct hit ? The DoT is actually eating the other shield or what ?

Someone finished him with a direct hit to the shield-less side.

 

Finally, the direct hit Thermite ended being nearly as good as a Proton one but actually needing me to take down the shields first... I don't need this kind of torpedoes.

 

 

PS : also disappointed that Ion Missile didn't get a up. Still doing puny damage to hull, with still a high chance of taking them down with cannons before it lands...

Edited April 8, 2014 by Altheran

[TheRampage]

Barrel roll nerf? Rly? Well, that just means I'll never play GS type 2 again, who is in the start - crap, removing only way to escape if under pressure makes it just lol.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I am disappointed by the up of Thermite Torpedo.

 

Just a few time ago, I succeeded to throw one to a jousting Scout and destroyed the shields before with Cannons. I expected him to take serious damage. But he survived, with a bit less than 10%.

I thought "maybe it's like plasma rail, the DoT will finish him..."

The DoT damaged... removing him hull hp very slowly percent by percent. But a percent of HP of scout, it what 10 ? That's all what my DoT does after a direct hit ? The DoT is actually eating the other shield or what ?

Someone finished him with a direct hit to the shield-less side.

 

Finally, the direct hit Thermite ended being nearly as good as a Proton one but actually needing me to take down the shields first... I don't need this kind of torpedoes.

 

 

PS : also disappointed that Ion Missile didn't get a up. Still doing puny damage to hull, with still a high chance of taking them down with cannons before it lands...

 

I noticed that the various upgrades to things like engines and Type 3 striker systems don't affect the tooltips like they should. So I'm wondering if maybe there's a bug with thermites too? they seem much more underwhelming than their stats would seem to indicate so perhaps the tooltip updated but they're still doing their old damage? that's at least my best guess.

 

Overall I think thermites would be better off with a single base damage like with all the other missiles.

[Zharik]

I am disappointed by the up of Thermite Torpedo.

 

I'm not, as they are interesting now...

[Loc_n_lol]

what has changed about the thermites ? (besides becoming available on new ships)

[Armonddd]

what has changed about the thermites ? (besides becoming available on new ships)

 

The debuff is now a dot, armor penetration, and shield penetration, according to the T5 left upgrade.

[Armonddd]

Barrel roll nerf? Rly? Well, that just means I'll never play GS type 2 again, who is in the start - crap, removing only way to escape if under pressure makes it just lol.

 

Massively overpowered railguns aren't good enough for you?

[Kalphitis]

Massively overpowered railguns aren't good enough for you?

 

I've been laughing at all the gunships that have been hitting me with minimal-charge ion rails this morning...apparently they didn't get the memo

[TheRampage]

Massively overpowered railguns aren't good enough for you?

 

Im talking about type 2 gs which is pretty bad to start with, now it is rly bad.

 

Tbh you are barking at wrong tree, I love every type of ship, have mastered all and playing them all.