The Assassin Questions

[sithBracer]

I can already play any spec you could possibly imagne.

 

I was talking about myself, but good for you.

[MKnightRider]

balance need less dmg increase than deception but yes it needs all others things especially its gameplay...so boring.

 

I disagree. All deception needs is more consistency on procs and crits and/or changes to force. Madness is actually fairly far behind Deception when you factor in that the spec gets heavy use out of double proccing relics.

[idnewton]

Thanks for the questions, all! I'll get them passed along.

 

-tw

 

Stand by for "Lacerate to full"

[IInox]

I disagree. All deception needs is more consistency on procs and crits and/or changes to force. Madness is actually fairly far behind Deception when you factor in that the spec gets heavy use out of double proccing relics.

 

With Increasing dmg for deception I mean this not just increase "numbers" just watch my last post..

Btw relics or not balance does more dmg than Deception ( don't count lucky shots) and I didn't say Madness doesn't need an increase dmg (whatever the way is)

 

Don't read what I don't write.

[Monterone]

The only thing I see them potentially nerfing is the fact that you keep discharge stacks when you swap stances. Other than that, all 3 full trees need at least a little more something to help propel assassins into a highly competitive spot in ranked PVP. And from what I've seen on the PVE side, DPS definitely needs to be brought up to higher to compete.

 

The only problem with that is how do you do that without breaking it in PVP? Any boost to Deception's burst DPS abilities will make it too strong. The only thing I can think of at this point is better force management and damage increase on VS. If you boost any other rotational ability, you boost burst.

 

Agreed. The burst really is fine. If I had any say, I would improve the Saber Conduit talent and halve the internal cooldown to 5 seconds. In addition to that I would tinker with Surging Charge damage and test it out with anywhere from 50-75% damage increase on it. This would improve sustained damage while only marginally boosting burst.

[DarthSpekulatius]

Agreed. The burst really is fine. If I had any say, I would improve the Saber Conduit talent and halve the internal cooldown to 5 seconds. In addition to that I would tinker with Surging Charge damage and test it out with anywhere from 50-75% damage increase on it. This would improve sustained damage while only marginally boosting burst.

 

surging charge is part of your burst it can crit for ~3500 during overcharge saber one from project the other from the natural proc, if both crit that's 7k damage added to your Burst

[Monterone]

surging charge is part of your burst it can crit for ~3500 during overcharge saber one from project the other from the natural proc, if both crit that's 7k damage added to your Burst

 

And that's why it should be tested, but it would be a pretty minor way of increasing the tree's dps for PvE. Besides, there is only a one in five chance of those critting, so the change to burst really would be minimal.

 

But perhaps a better way to add to sustained damage would be include the Surging Charge damage to the Crackling Blasts talent for increased crit damage. Who knows, it would be nice to test them out.

[Aelanis]

And that's why it should be tested, but it would be a pretty minor way of increasing the tree's dps for PvE. Besides, there is only a one in five chance of those critting, so the change to burst really would be minimal.

 

But perhaps a better way to add to sustained damage would be include the Surging Charge damage to the Crackling Blasts talent for increased crit damage. Who knows, it would be nice to test them out.

 

With everything going, and for those people who run some crit, it gets closer to 1 in 3 than 1 in 5. And low chances mean next to nothing in PVP, as it can still happen, and when it does, it'll mess the other player up pretty hard. Discharge + Shock w/ Chain Shock + Double Proc Surging Charge could hit for over 20k damage in 2 GCDs. That's way too much burst, and the chances for that would be greater than you think. If you assume an auto-double-proc on Shock + Chain Shock, you've got around a 1/10 chance of double critting on Surging Charge. That's not exactly a small chance, it will happen, and when it does, it would destroy other players, since most of that 20k is Elemental damage.

 

Better ways to improve sustained damage would be to change the lockouts on moves, or making them surefire hits. Turning the 4.5 second ICD and 25% chance on Surging Charge to a hard 6 second ICD would be a general increase in damage without increasing any ability to burst. Similarly, turning Maul into 12 second ICD with 100% chance to activate would also increase PVE damage without touching burst. SalvorHardin's ideas for this were probably the best I've seen. Also, turning Maul/Discharge into an auto-crit against non-player enemies would be a big help, too but those might be asking for a bit much.

[MasterFeign]

You know, why don't they just make phase walk's ability in the darkness tree, assassin-wide. It'd get more use out of it in pve as a result. Of course it should not stack with other phasewalks either. And if the devs decide to use the larger animation for PW as a result, well this will help other enemies in PVP for situational awareness (which would be a nice tradeoff).

 

However I'd still like to see something of an offensive proc or ability that can be used in conjunction with phasewalk.

 

And this'll also free up 2 points in the darkness tree to hopefully address some of the issues for darkness in pvp.

 

To fix it though, I hope we don't encounter spec bloat, like what is happening in vengence/vigilance.

Edited April 27, 2014 by MasterFeign

[Evolixe]

Ugh, I don't want a phase walk the size of a planet :/

[MasterFeign]

Ugh, I don't want a phase walk the size of a planet :/

 

That'd actually be pretty funny.

 

"Activating phase walk grants a 4% healing bonus to those within the area, and also provides a vast amount of latency and lag due to it's animation, causing those within its area to die a slow choppy confused lag-death"

[GrandLordMenace]

that'd actually be pretty funny.

 

"activating phase walk grants a 4% healing bonus to those within the area, and also provides a vast amount of latency and lag due to it's animation, causing those within its area to die a slow choppy confused lag-death"

 

bhahahaah

[Andrew_Past]

surging charge is part of your burst it can crit for ~3500 during overcharge saber one from project the other from the natural proc, if both crit that's 7k damage added to your Burst

 

Yeah, surging charge damage is fine. The proc rate could be looked at for an increase, as others are suggesting.

 

On another note, as an offensive CD Overcharge Saber is pretty useless as Madness. That could be looked at for something to improve.

 

I'd also like to see the way Mandess works a little differently. It lacks the burst and survivability to work well as a melee DPS. I'd say rework the CrD procs to be more similar to the Sorc version. No CrD reset but get the 35% damage increase on CrD and project. Tie in a force cost reduction in there as well, and I think madness would be in a good spot. Oh, and have coming out of stealth give you that proc so you have some opening burst available.

 

Defensively, I'd just like to see out of stealth Blackout be baseline, but only work in DPS stance. Maybe have madness be able to place phase walk instantly.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Andrew_Past

[Evolixe]

Everyone should be able to place phase walk instantly. Casting on melee classes doesn't work.

[Monterone]

With everything going, and for those people who run some crit, it gets closer to 1 in 3 than 1 in 5. And low chances mean next to nothing in PVP, as it can still happen, and when it does, it'll mess the other player up pretty hard. Discharge + Shock w/ Chain Shock + Double Proc Surging Charge could hit for over 20k damage in 2 GCDs. That's way too much burst, and the chances for that would be greater than you think. If you assume an auto-double-proc on Shock + Chain Shock, you've got around a 1/10 chance of double critting on Surging Charge. That's not exactly a small chance, it will happen, and when it does, it would destroy other players, since most of that 20k is Elemental damage.

 

Better ways to improve sustained damage would be to change the lockouts on moves, or making them surefire hits. Turning the 4.5 second ICD and 25% chance on Surging Charge to a hard 6 second ICD would be a general increase in damage without increasing any ability to burst. Similarly, turning Maul into 12 second ICD with 100% chance to activate would also increase PVE damage without touching burst. SalvorHardin's ideas for this were probably the best I've seen. Also, turning Maul/Discharge into an auto-crit against non-player enemies would be a big help, too but those might be asking for a bit much.

 

I thought we were talking about PvP here, I don't know why someone would sacrifice that much power to get 33% crit chance. Can you even get that with PvP gear?

 

I know on my itemized deception sin, I'm barely breaking 20% crit chance, with a couple of crit pieces, all else power mods and with main stat augments. To even get to 1 in 4 crit chance, I'd have to seriously gimp my damage.

 

Anyways, lots of other good ideas flying around... it's much nicer to see people agree that deception needs some sort of help instead of flat out calling for nerfs without having anything to back that up.

[MasterFeign]

Everyone should be able to place phase walk instantly. Casting on melee classes doesn't work.

 

I feel as though a talented instant cast of PW would be a waste. Assassin wide would make sense, but if we did get a talented instant PW, I'd want there to be something more than just how it works now (like that it does something for the other DPS specs, and not just acting as a teleport).

[Evolixe]

Who said anything about talents? It should be baseline.

[MasterFeign]

I'm still not sold on that idea, I mean we can set it up with generally no finesse while in stealth, and it's generally not a good idea to cast it while engaged with an enemy, unless if you're leading him somewhere or using it at the end goal area of huttball or other circumstances. But that's the sort of risk that's necessary for those instances.

 

On a side note, I encountered the 5% shroud issue again. Was on my jugg, and got to force choke the shrouded assassin. It's one thing to take force/tech related damage while shrouded, it's another thing to also be mezzed because of it...

[Xinika]

Phase Walk having a cast is literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this game. No one is being hurt if it's instant and it can even allow some clutch gameplay. Come on.

[idnewton]

Phase Walk having a cast is literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this game.

 

*Lowers glasses*

 

So, I take it you're new here...

[Andrew_Past]

Phase Walk having a cast is literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this game. No one is being hurt if it's instant and it can even allow some clutch gameplay. Come on.

 

Actually, yeah. After thinking about it more, I agree that it should be instant and possibly off the GCD even for placing it for all specs. Would allow for some quick tactical/offensive in addition to using it defensively.

 

Madness would still need more in the defensives department. It does pretty well in the escape department, but has no damage reduction DCDs whatsoever. Baseline Blackout would help in that regard, but would it be enough?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Andrew_Past

[Xinika]

Actually, yeah. After thinking about it more, I agree that it should be instant and possibly off the GCD even for placing it for all specs. Would allow for some quick tactical/offensive in addition to using it defensively.

 

Madness would still need more in the defensives department. It does pretty well in the escape department, but has no damage reduction DCDs whatsoever. Baseline Blackout would help in that regard, but would it be enough?

Forgive my lack of a formal response but I am about to fall asleep as I am writing this. Now that's out of the way!

 

Giving baseline Blackout (with damage reduction) is a great idea.

 

What Madness would benefit defensively can be any of the following:

• Increased Self Healing
  
• Passive flat mitigation that can be tied to one of the upper talents. (This is a must, period)
  
• A benefit that may give Deflection less damage taken from all sources with a possible cd reduction or increase its duration.
  
• What if this was the spec that *didn't* have a cast time on Phase Walk? -_-
  
• Less Reliance on Melee attacks *if* they want it to stay the way it is
  
• Increased duration on Force Speed
  

[DaftVaduhhh]

• Less Reliance on Melee attacks *if* they want it to stay the way it is
  
• Increased duration on Force Speed
  

2.8 Patch Notes:

 

Shadow

 

Balance:

New talent - Exercise in Futility - Force Technique now grants a 6% bonus to Willpower, increases all cast ranges to 30 m and grants the following new abilities:

 

- Disturbance

- Deliverance

- Benevolence

- Force Armor

- Force Mend

- Mental Alacrity

 

Patch 2.8.1

 

Shadow

 

Balance:

Exercise in Futility has been revised and you can no longer use stealth or gain melee bonus damage with it active.

 

Patch 2.8.2

 

Shadow

 

Balance:

**** it, you're a Sage now.

Edited April 28, 2014 by DaftVaduhhh

[invertioN]

Patch 2.8.2

 

Shadow

 

Balance:

**** it, you're a Sage now.

Yeah. Exactly what we don't want to happen! Come on now, we are a b a d a s s melee class, not ranged.

At least give us triple strike bioware plz

Edited April 28, 2014 by invertioN

[Aelanis]

Forgive my lack of a formal response but I am about to fall asleep as I am writing this. Now that's out of the way!

 

Giving baseline Blackout (with damage reduction) is a great idea.

 

What Madness would benefit defensively can be any of the following:

• Increased Self Healing
  
• Passive flat mitigation that can be tied to one of the upper talents. (This is a must, period)
  
• A benefit that may give Deflection less damage taken from all sources with a possible cd reduction or increase its duration.
  
• What if this was the spec that *didn't* have a cast time on Phase Walk? -_-
  
• Less Reliance on Melee attacks *if* they want it to stay the way it is
  
• Increased duration on Force Speed
  

 

It's hard for me to speak out on Madness issues, I hardly play the spec, and never in PVP, but as for baseline Blackout DR, I actually think that wouldn't be so bad even if tanks got it. It's a very short duration, with a short cooldown, and doesn't have too drastic an effect on overall survivability. I tried out the hybrid KC/Infil spec on Brontes last night, and even though I had no rotation to keep up, having Blackout made me feel like I finally had something I had been looking for for a long time. As a tank, I feel like I need to save Overcharge Saber for when things are going to otherwise go really downhill, since Deflection doesn't work on so many attacks from Ops bosses. Now that I've played having Blackout, going back to full tank spec makes me realize just how nice having it was. It gave the healers a bit of breathing room when they would have ordinarily been somewhat more stressed out.

 

Granted, running that hybrid spec on that fight at all is terrifically funny, as we watched our damage taken drop dramatically across most of the phases, and our healers said they were falling asleep, but... regardless. It was something nice that I never realized I really wanted. It should definitely have a shorter duration and longer cooldown for Darkness, and it would require giving Powertechs something, too, but it would be amazing to have baseline.