Marauder Top 3 Answers!

[Okamakiri]

When the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was first designed, it did not originally reset the cooldown on Gore/Precision Slash. After some play-testing, the thought was that players would just sit on their free Vicious Throw/Dispatch until Gore/Precision Slash was available, so we made the skill reset the cooldown of Gore/Precision Slash as well (to keep players from feeling like they needed to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash buff was active). The Gore/Precision Slash cooldown resets triggered by unplanned Ataru Form strikes was not thoughtfully intended, but rather, it is a byproduct of making sure Marauders/Sentinels do not have to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash comes off cooldown. However, we did not plan to make Gore/Precision Slash harder to use by resetting its cooldown, because the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was primarily focused on resetting Vicious Throw’s/Dispatch’s cooldown rather than Gore’s/Precision Slash’s cooldown.

 

You may not have intended for double Gore to be used as it is, but the fact of the matter is that for nearly a year it has been and the spec has been balanced around having ideal procs and execution. Whenever the RNG works against us, it is a massive DPS loss since Carnage DPS outside of Gore windows is pitiful. You already fixed the RNG aspect behind Conc Ops, Arsenal Mercs and Lightning Sorcs, I really thought you would extend us the same courtesy. The way I see it:

• Slaughter already has a long internal cooldown, it doesn't need a low proc chance as well. Ops, Mercs and Sorcs were given 100% proc chance on procs that have ICD, why aren't we? I've had instances where it would not proc at all the full duration of Gore cooldown.
  
• The proc should not be able to trigger if Gore is already OFF cooldown.
  

 

I'm really disappointed to read such a dismissive answer instead of getting the same treatment that other classes already got. It's extremely annoying starting off a boss fight and getting a Slaughter proc off Leap or Battering Assault, before you've even had a chance to consume your first Gore. It is a massive DPS loss every time it happens, especially at start of fights when all relic procs and raid cooldowns are perfectly aligned.

[Raansu]

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question.

 

"But we are going to turn around and give our precious sniper an even superior version of UR"

 

 

I cancelled my sub yesterday. Between this and the rest of the vague and horrible answers (i.e. "I have no idea what I'm talking about because I only play sniper") it pretty much assures that I will never come back. Shame that it came to this because overall I don't dislike this game and I love star wars, but I just cannot stomach the incompetence of this development team anymore.

 

And yes, I could 100% do a better job than you at balancing this game.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Raansu

[Emperor-Norton]

When it comes to Carnage vs. Rage burst, I can see where Bioware is coming from. Carnage can do a lot of damage in a very short period of time, but it always requires setup. You need to use Leap, then Battering Assault, then do Massacre a bit to proc Slaughter and Execute. With Rage all you need to do is Leap + Frenzy + Berserk and then you can start going at it. So in that sense Rage is a better burst spec. In other words, Carnage can spike really hard, but Rage is better at doing damage asap. Edited March 11, 2014 by Emperor-Norton

[cs_zoltan]

In response to the uncleansable DoTs for annihilation, similarly with carnage I feel that this isn't the best way to go. Adding another DoT on to annihilate (or some other ability in the spec) would satisfy most of the problems that the community has with the spec. Making things uncleansable dumbs down the level of play, while adding a dot would still allow healers who are skilled to throw in a cleanse that would hurt, but not destroy the damage of an annihilation marauder.

 

lol no, what dumbs down the level of play is taking away 36% of Anni's damage, it's resource generation, it's selfhealing and grouphealing, and the 5% damage dealt reduction with one *********** GCD. If you think the only thing you can cleanse is DoTs and removing that would dumb the level of play and remove the skill involved in cleansing, then you never used cleanse to it's full effect.

You can cleanse slows/roots/mezzes, and it looks like it actually requires more skill than cleansing DoTs since noone ever seem to do it.

[waterboytkd]

To answer the question, yes and no.

 

When the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was first designed, it did not originally reset the cooldown on Gore/Precision Slash. After some play-testing, the thought was that players would just sit on their free Vicious Throw/Dispatch until Gore/Precision Slash was available, so we made the skill reset the cooldown of Gore/Precision Slash as well (to keep players from feeling like they needed to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash buff was active). The Gore/Precision Slash cooldown resets triggered by unplanned Ataru Form strikes was not thoughtfully intended, but rather, it is a byproduct of making sure Marauders/Sentinels do not have to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash comes off cooldown. However, we did not plan to make Gore/Precision Slash harder to use by resetting its cooldown, because the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was primarily focused on resetting Vicious Throw’s/Dispatch’s cooldown rather than Gore’s/Precision Slash’s cooldown.

 

So now we know why it works the way it works, but now that you know OUR concerns, what's your response? Will anything be done? Or are you telling us that we're wrong for thinking of it as an extra Gore proc? If it's the latter, then I want you guys to think back to your college days. Remember when you'd be walking to class down the sidewalk, and you'd look at the patch of lawn in the middle of the quad, between two walkways, and right down the center of that bright patch of green was this brown lane of trampled, hard-packed earth? That natural walkway made by students cutting across the lawn...over and over and over again, so much that they made their own walkway? That's where the walkway should have been made. Sure, it wasn't the intended walkway, but it was the de facto walkway.

 

Slaughter is the same thing. Maybe the intent was that it was a Vicious Throw ability, and it got the Gore proc to help facilitate our Vicious Throws. But that's not how we use it, or how we view it. We see it as a Gore ability. To that end, just as the dirt trail should be paved, the mechanics of the ability should be reworked such that it plays nicer with Gore.

 

As for the difficulties presented by various forms of crowd control, that is intended. We will continue to keep our eyes on Marauder/Sentinel and how their overall performance is in PvP. If we feel that they are being outperformed by many of the other classes, we might consider having Gore/Precision Slash grant a few charges with a longer duration that get consumed when damage is dealt to help Marauders/Sentinels use Gore/Precision Slash to its full effect.

 

I have no problem with this. CC vs Gore is working as intended, but they know our concerns and said they'd watch Mara/Sent performance. Though, personally, I would like the charge mechanic for Gore, they explained their position, and said they'd keep an eye out if things changed. Can't really ask for more.

 

We are not completely satisfied with how Annihilation/Watchman performs. In a vacuum, where no movement is required and the stars align, Annihilation/Watchman is capable of dishing out some massive sustained damage, but that is not the world in which SWTOR gets played. We do intend to make some changes to Annihilation/Watchman in order to improve its performance in both PvE and PvP, but we are not ready to discuss any of the specifics. As we work to improve the performance of Annihilation, we will definitely consider the suggestions made in your question!

 

Again, no problems with this answer. They know Anni/Watch needs work, and they said they're working on it, just no specifics right now.

 

Even with the changes in Game Update 2.7, Rage/Focus looks to remain the burst damage leader among the Marauder/Sentinel specializations (and in PvE, the AoE damage remains unchanged).

 

This just seems wrong to me. My impression was that, among the Mara/Sent crowd, it was understood that Carnage was in fact the best burst spec, but ONLY when the stars aligned. Other than that, it had great sustainability in PvE, which only decreased to "good" in PvP (bad guys kiting hurts melee sustainability, but Carnage has the roots). Rage, though, had great burst ON DEMAND. It saw the play it did because you could open with that damage; it didn't require waiting for the RNG gods to smile upon you. It also could put a lot of strain on healers by hitting groups for a big glut of damage, making punching through healers easier. It didn't hurt that both of those functions got MUCH better when you had multiple Mara/Sents.

 

Post 2.7, the on demand stays, but that's it. It won't stress healers AT ALL any more, and multiple Rage Maras means nothing. I seriously believe that, based upon this response, the combat team does not realize how little Rage offers anymore. It'll have a good opener, and that's it. Once combat has been engaged, the Carnage Mara will be leagues beyond Rage in performance.

 

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question.

 

Two things: first, is the combat team completely oblivious to the changes coming to Slingers/Snipers in 2.7? This argument seems completely bonkers and braindead to me. I mean, the sniper ability IS BETTER. It has no drawback, and a shorter cooldown. They have to be in cover to use it? That's like saying a Mara has to be in melee to use Undying Rage! Snipers WANT to be in cover! Taking this stance while implementing the sniper changes feels like arguing for banning the ownership of pistols because they're involved in gun violence while simultaneously passing legislature to allow the ownership of fully automatic assault rifles.

 

Second, is the combat team getting a lot of complaints from ENEMY NPCs? Who cares if it's a great "Oh Shi-" button for when the Mara accidentally steals aggro? I promise, that ability is not allowing Maras + healers to 2-man operations. Consider how it plays out now in PvE: if a Mara pulls aggro, and needs to pop this to stay alive, they just make things awkward for the healer. Because the healer shouldn't really waste time healing him until the duration expires, at which point the Mara is almost dead, and might get killed before the heal goes off. Or, if the healer throws some love the Mara's way while UR is up, they go right back to an "Oh Shi-" situation as soon as it expires.

 

If the old UR was really that problematic, then the Sniper's coming changes in 2.7 need to be changed so that they also spend 50% of their health at the end of duration. Or, if being teamed up with a healer* is really that OP, do a QoL change to both UR and the Sniper's new ability so that incoming healing is reduced by 50% while it's active (almost the same effect as losing 50% health at the end of the duration).

 

But you can't leave the new sniper defensive cooldowns as currently planned AND leave UR with its current implementation. It makes NO sense, and really makes it seem like the combat team is gunning Maras or playing favorites.

 

That's my two cents in regards to the combat team's answers.

 

PS *It seems completely insane to single out one defensive ability because it plays well with healing, when EVERYTHING in this game plays well with healing. Sorc/Sage bubble when a healer is present? Yay. Being a healer when a second healer is present? Yay. Kiting while a healer is present? Yay. AoE mezzes while a healer is present? Yay. Tanking while a healer is present? And though only some of this really applies to PvE, it ALL applies to PvP.

 

When it comes to PvP, there are so many degenerate synergies with healing right now. Queue regs and wait for that game against 2 healers + 2 tanks, then cry as your dps class does nothing. Or try and plant a bomb/take a node against 3 healers. Before you blame the defensive cooldown for a degenerate combo, maybe you should look at the combo piece that's present in every degenerate PvP combo?

[CellPerfect]

It comes down to survivability for a turret-based cast AC. Snipers are focused first in arenas, no exception. And they go down like a sack of potatoes. Under focus, they roll away, pop their lol-shieldprobe which absorbs like 4k, and then die. Buffing their Evasion will bring them in line with the other Arena classes in terms of survivability. As we know, most solo Q arenas are 4 DPS vs 4 DPS, so there is no healing going on. It's literally, which team survives the best. A dead sniper who was too busy popping his DCDs to do any dmg does nothing for his team. Which leads to the question....

 

Why are snipers the first target to focus in arenas? Because you don't focus the sorcerer with big initial burst because of the bubble + barrier. You don't focus Maras/Juggs first because of their Saber Ward and other powerful DCDs. You don't focus Assassins first because they are in stealth and will pop out a couple seconds after engagement. You don't focus Powertechs (AP at least), because of AOE & Stun dmg reduction, energy shield, heavy armor, and hold the line.

 

So where does that leave the sniper? Just ahead of poor Mercs in terms of primary target to focus. I've Mained a Mara since launch, and while I hate these multiple nerfs, I can see why Evasion got buffed for Snipers.

 

I was mostly talking about the synergy with healing with healing. I'm fine with snipers getting defensive buffs, but the devs nerfed undying rage because of its synergy with healing, yet the evasion buff will synergize with healing just as much if not better than undying rage used to. With only dps around (no healing is being done) Undying rage really wasn't changed all that much so I'm not too bothered with that, but I am bothered with the inconsistency between the undying rage nerf (which was effectively a 50% heal debuff and you may only have 50% hp at maximum after popping it) and the evasion buff. Again this is only in regards to how they go with healing, no other situation.

[CellPerfect]

lol no, what dumbs down the level of play is taking away 36% of Anni's damage, it's resource generation, it's selfhealing and grouphealing, and the 5% damage dealt reduction with one *********** GCD.

 

I agree, which is why I feel adding on another DoT to annihilation would be a great fix. I stated it in another thread and I will quote it here. It states my reasoning for why another DoT would be a great change for the spec and how it would help most issues that players have with the spec.

 

For annihilation, what do you guys think of adding another dot tied on to Annihilate (or maybe some other ability we have, Annihilate would be my first choice though)? I think I have seen this idea mentioned somewhere before but I think it would solve quite a lot of issues that players have with the spec. Adding another dot would do a few things...

1. It would give us a sustained damage increase
   
2. It would give us a little bit of dot protection so that healers could not cleanse all of our dots in one move. So no matter what, even if a healer cleanses, we will have at least one dot left on the target that will be able to give us our self heal, and use up stacks of berserk so that we can begin building fury back up.
   
3. It will also allow us to have 3 chances to get a critical hit on a dot which would heal us which would help to bring us closer to the level of survivability that we had pre 1.4 (it may not be as strong as what we had back then, but it would certainly be good, extra chances to crit = more hp)
   

Something similar to rupture in terms of the dot's strength would be good but that can be worked out later. Thoughts and opinions on this idea?

 

As you can see, it would make Annihilation the best spec for sustained damage with no questions asked, give the damage, and self healing some protection, and increase the chances of us getting self heals along with the amount of self healing we potentially can get.

 

If you think the only thing you can cleanse is DoTs and removing that would dumb the level of play and remove the skill involved in cleansing, then you never used cleanse to it's full effect.

You can cleanse slows/roots/mezzes, and it looks like it actually requires more skill than cleansing DoTs since noone ever seem to do it.

 

I never stated this, but I never liked the idea of uncleansable DoTs. I know you can cleanse quite a lot of debuffs. Adding on to your list is diversion (the sniper 30% accuracy debuff that also takes people out of cover, although you can only cleanse the accuracy debuff not the "no cover" debuff), so I do know how to use a cleanse to its full effect . I would prefer they either add the 3rd DoT and / or make it so only sorcs can cleanse our DoTs by making them a force effect because it's pretty stupid that everyone who has a cleanse except for dps sorcs can cleanse our DoTs.

[Samoth_Nomad]

Well, another round of Q&A that just leaves me scratching my head. I've always found it hard to believe that the devs(Mr. Peckenpaugh) doesn't play the game, but more and more, I'm starting to believe it. There is no other way to explain some of the reasoning behind class balancing. It harkens back to 2.0, when the Dev. stated "we all know playing combat/carnage is boring" so we decided it needed a change. I've played Combat spec since launch and I have never heard another player describe Combat/Carnage as "boring", and yet somehow, the devs decided it was such and took it upon themselves to change it.

Here a good read if you want to scratch your head some more: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130417

I'm not gonna complain about those changes, because that's off topic and I am fine with the current state of Carnage(minus the RNG dependence).

 

It's more a point that the dev seems completely out of touch with the playerbase. I'm getting tired of the dismissive tone they take, the factually inaccurate answers to class questions(Rage is burstier than carnage in 2.7? in what world?), and overall inconsistencies of their approach to balance(buff dodge, nerf UD?).

It's incredibly frustrating to say the least. I'm going to the cantina tour in Boulder, CO, and I think my question will be: Is there a chance we will ever get competent senior developer for class balance?

Edited March 11, 2014 by Samoth_Nomad

[Kooziejr]

The gore question was answered very well. As someone who plays combat sentinel asking for better burst on gore/precision slash is silly. Not to mention, that most marauders in ranked grouped arenas play carnage and the results put marauder is number 1 dps currently in group ranked.

 

Annihilation answer was lacking in detail. But it is good they admit the spec is not working well.

 

"Even with the changes in Game Update 2.7, Rage/Focus looks to remain the burst damage leader among the Marauder/Sentinel specializations." Is that for real? This is 100% incorrect. In terms of burst carnage is light years ahead of rage. All what rage does is aoe pressure. In 2.7 there will be absolutely no reason the play rage what so ever.

 

Last "The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer." Let me get this straight, *** does NPC fighting chance mean? I am not against the nerf to UR in 2.5, but giving it to snipers on lower CD, with 100% immunity and no drawbacks contradicts every statement you ever made regarding UR and makes no sense for balance.

 

The answers are very good. Just because noobs want easy mode in carnage doesn't mean you are going to get it. They look willing to fix anni but need to figure it out. Excellent work bioware! Nerf those smashtards!

[CO_DAIGO]

Can we expect changes to occur before next ranked PVP season starts?[/size]

[Savej]

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer...

 

...

 

What about the Mara/Sents that -aren't- backed by healers? What chance do they have against other dps that have healers?

 

For the record I don't see the point to playing a rage/focus character after 2.7. They have a nice opener and are a little harder to completely cc-shut-down than carnage is but their followup damage is lower, they have fewer ccs, weaker group buffs and now much less even overall damage and maneuverability.

[AngusFTW]

...

 

What about the Mara/Sents that -aren't- backed by healers? What chance do they have against other dps that have healers?

 

For the record I don't see the point to playing a rage/focus character after 2.7. They have a nice opener and are a little harder to completely cc-shut-down than carnage is but their followup damage is lower, they have fewer ccs, weaker group buffs and now much less even overall damage and maneuverability.

A single dps should win 1v2 against a dps and healer?

[Dedrayge]

Seriously guys, if we want the combat team to listen to us and work with us, we need to make a song parody. You know, like the one that was made after the whole h2f fiasco...It's apparently the only way to be taken seriously.

 

Also...I get the impression the devs think we still have a perception problem...

 

 

 

Can we expect changes to occur before next ranked PVP season starts?[/size]

 

Nope...Pretty sure 2.7 is the start of season 2.

[Savej]

A single dps should win 1v2 against a dps and healer?

 

my point exactly

[KnightTyler]

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question.

 

So Guarded by the Force was changed to bring Sentinels down a notch despite them being a 4m range melee class that is always in the thick of battle, but a 35m ranged class Gunslinger (that is not always in the thick of the fight) is getting the same thing (but much better) that was originally deemed "too much" for Sentinels.

 

• Guarded by the Force reduces health 50%, lasts 4 seconds (5 with set bonus) and is on a 2 minute cooldown (25%/1 minute 30 seconds in Focus.)
   
  
• Dodge does not reduce health, purges all hostile removable effects, lasts 3 seconds (4 seconds in Dirty Fighting) and is on a 1 minute cooldown.
  

 

So Gunslinger will be getting more uses out of dodge, is immune to stuns since it is 100% and not 99% like Guarded by the Force is, doesn't get a health debuff, can purge all removable effects on them where Sentinel can't and gets to do more damage at 35m range. How is implementing this going to give any classes and/or npc's a fighting chance against a Gunslinger that is being backed by a healer (doesn't even need a healer)? It seems as if implementing this is more than contradictory to the statement made about a healer being present because Dodge will be more effective than Guarded by the Force ever was.

 

I'm sure a statement will be made saying you cant compare DCD to DCD because Sentinels have Saber Ward, Guarded by the Force, Rebuke and Force Camo. But why can't we compare? Gunslingers have Defense Screen, Dodge, Hunker Down, Scrambling Field and Hold Position which already grants 20% Ranged Defense Chance. They both wear Medium Armor. Sentinel is a melee class. They are always in the midst of the fight . Gunslingers start with a 100% resource where as Sentinels have to build then release. Gunslingers already have a behind the scene's survivability increase because of their 35m range. This can not be properly accounted for when speaking of actual damage reduction but its still an important aspect of the class that needs to be mentioned when discussing survivability. Of course, each tree gets various other survivability options for both classes but the upper hand goes to Gunslingers on that as well.

[Raansu]

Seriously guys, if we want the combat team to listen to us and work with us, we need to make a song parody. You know, like the one that was made after the whole h2f fiasco...It's apparently the only way to be taken seriously.

 

Also...I get the impression the devs think we still have a perception problem...

 

If only the devs would realize that its really them with a perception problem ....most because they don't actually play their own damn game.

 

So Guarded by the Force was changed to bring Sentinels down a notch despite them being a 4m range melee class that is always in the thick of battle, but a 35m ranged class Gunslinger (that is not always in the thick of the fight) is getting the same thing (but much better) that was originally deemed "too much" for Sentinels.

 

• Guarded by the Force reduces health 50%, lasts 4 seconds (5 with set bonus) and is on a 2 minute cooldown (25%/1 minute 30 seconds in Focus.)
   
  
• Dodge does not reduce health, purges all hostile removable effects, lasts 3 seconds (4 seconds in Dirty Fighting) and is on a 1 minute cooldown.
  

 

So Gunslinger will be getting more uses out of dodge, is immune to stuns since it is 100% and not 99% like Guarded by the Force is, doesn't get a health debuff, can purge all removable effects on them where Sentinel can't and gets to do more damage at 35m range. How is implementing this going to give any classes and/or npc's a fighting chance against a Gunslinger that is being backed by a healer (doesn't even need a healer)? It seems as if implementing this is more than contradictory to the statement made about a healer being present because Dodge will be more effective than Guarded by the Force ever was.

 

I'm sure a statement will be made saying you cant compare DCD to DCD because Sentinels have Saber Ward, Guarded by the Force, Rebuke and Force Camo. But why can't we compare? Gunslingers have Defense Screen, Dodge, Hunker Down, Scrambling Field and Hold Position which already grants 20% Ranged Defense Chance. They both wear Medium Armor. Sentinel is a melee class. They are always in the midst of the fight . Gunslingers start with a 100% resource where as Sentinels have to build then release. Gunslingers already have a behind the scene's survivability increase because of their 35m range. This can not be properly accounted for when speaking of actual damage reduction but its still an important aspect of the class that needs to be mentioned when discussing survivability. Of course, each tree gets various other survivability options for both classes but the upper hand goes to Gunslingers on that as well.

 

Logic too stronk

 

Lead developer for class balance plays a sniper. You know what he does when he sees this?

 

*plugs ears* "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!! LALALALALA"

 

[XeniusX]

Well, i don't know what to think anymore. Other than the last couple of months i've felt like ranged is getting more and more of an advantage against us melee in the game (just wiat untill 2.7 where everything will hit harder). I don't feel like there is any incentive to play a melee class anymore other than in ranked when backed up by competent people. Just look at the WZs, how many melee do YOU see there ? maybe 2. And one of them is prob a tank so doesn't count. I see so many sages/sorcs mercs/mandos and slingers/snipers in every game, and i don't even know where to begin. Everyone of them standing in an arc shooting you from 5 angles, what am i supposed to do if i don't have a tank taunting and a healer behind me ? Melees are too dependant on the team as per date if you ask me (mostly because we are the main target long before they see a healer or even care about the healer, and also stuns being 10 m is all meant for us oh happy me). Every frigging ranged player has an escape now, even sorcs can just force speed away from my root (not that they needed it cause they could have cleansed it if they were smart). It's gotten down the the point of i don't really see the need for a root anymore, other than to attack other melee actually.

 

To the answers: thanks for not saying anything really. keep buffing your beloved ranged. I love my mara and i'll prob continue playing him but continue down this path and without some sort of matchmaking or other types of ranked Q (thinking 2v2, 3v3 or even 8v8), i don't see a bright future in this game.

 

PS: the RNG of carnage is too unreliable if u ask me, i hear some of you like it but c'mon.. sometimes my force scream has been off cooldown enough that i could have used it twice before i proc the damn crit... ofc the gore resetting before i have used it is also annoying, but if thats their intention then fine. PPS: If it weren't for predation i would never even try to play in ranged superstar regs.

[Dedrayge]

If only the devs would realize that its really them with a perception problem ....most because they don't actually play their own damn game.

 

Of course they are the ones with the perception issue...It's why in my first post in this thread, I suggested they actually play the game instead of going by metrics and testing in a controlled environment. There are far more variables, especially in PvP, that need to be taken into consideration in the live game.

 

Hell, they're answers in regard to rage suck so bad, the guardian rep is being forced to waste yet another question addressing rage and it's changes. So lets see how they try dodging a second question about rage/focus which is chopped full of logic.

 

 

Logic too stronk

 

Lead developer for class balance plays a sniper. You know what he does when he sees this?

 

*plugs ears* "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!! LALALALALA"

 

 

Indeed, logic so strong

.

 

Plugs his ears, jumps on his MM sniper with it's strong burst, high sustain, and great resource management and picks off warriors and stealth while laughing. Then he falls out of his chair laughing when mercs and sorcerers go after him...

 

Operation bosses are further evidence of hate towards melee...Plenty of them have AoE attacks they only use on people within melee range...Hell, that world boss that shows up on Alderaan during the rakghoul resurgent, only melee needed to keep popping off vaccines.

 

And I hear the combat team doubles back as the PvP team...If true...It all makes even more sense...Just look at the new hutt ball WZ and that nicely placed pipe where snipers can set up and spawn camp...And easily pick off the enemy ball carrier and pass to a stealth parked near the goal.

[Icebergy]

...

 

What about the Mara/Sents that -aren't- backed by healers? What chance do they have against other dps that have healers?

 

A DPS without a healer is supposed to lose to a DPS with a healer. That is the entire point of healers.

 

These answers were fine. You guys are complaining just to complain. Your class is in a better situation than most, stop whining.

[KeyboardNinja]

You are actually correct, if you look at the top carnage parses it seems that slaughter proc contributes between two and 4 extra gore windows per parse. Which is strange, I always assumed it would give gore a much smaller effective CD.

 

Look again at those parses. Ranick in particular does a very good job of being very crisp on his rotation in a dummy context. He gets an extra gore window every time Slaughter procs. You can also look at my Combat parse on Nefra (just shy of a 3.8k), which is also a good example of getting an extra Gore window on every Slaughter. Or, if you prefer a dummy parse, I can give you a 1 mil dummy kill parse that is not as lucky as TrillOG's current record, but which demonstrates (together with a bit of math) why the Slaughter reset is both achievable and a significant DPS jump.

 

Not all bosses allow this, but in almost all circumstances it can be achieved. The only place where things get weird is bosses like Calphayus in the first future phase, where I will literally stand still and do nothing for four or five seconds to delay my burst for an add spawn.

 

It's really not that hard to manage. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that the devs didn't design Slaughter to align with the cooldown on Gore, since the alignment is really that perfect (with just an 0.5 second overlap). Between that and the cooldown on Force Scream, the spec just holds together incredibly well in terms of timing. If that is by accident, then it's one of those most interesting and serendipitous accidents in all of Bioware's class balancing history.

 

As a sidebar, I'm under no illusions that all of these timings are achievable in PvP. The Gore > STUN combo is a real problem, and the fact that Gore cannot simply be mindlessly mashed on cooldown is also very challenging, because of how the timing fits together. My point is simply that the spec is really well-fitted and very internally consistent, and the Slaughter reset on Gore, if an accident, is a remarkably well-suited and balanced accident.

Edited March 12, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[AngusFTW]

Sometimes i think they should give a talent of some sort that makes resolve build faster for a carnage marauder.. like pre 1.4 days kinda resolve (no more double mezzes/stuns)... this would be nice for pvp but would nor effect pve at all. This way you'd still be able to counter them but the spec would be less suspectible to the mindless chain stuns it gets now..

 

I think full on cc immunity would be ridiculous but something needs to help against all the cc.

Edited March 12, 2014 by AngusFTW

[KeyboardNinja]

One thing that might be really neat is stun immunity during Gore. Still vulnerable to roots, knockbacks, pulls, etc. Raises the skill floor required to shut down the spec without raising it to the same level required to shut down Rage. This would also give Carnage a bit more utility in that it would sometimes be advantageous to pop Gore just for the immunity (e.g. while walking through a Fire Trap).

[XeniusX]

Sometimes i think they should give a talent of some sort that makes resolve build faster for a carnage marauder.. like pre 1.4 days kinda resolve (no more double mezzes/stuns)... this would be nice for pvp but would nor effect pve at all. This way you'd still be able to counter them but the spec would be less suspectible to the mindless chain stuns it gets now..

 

I think full on cc immunity would be ridiculous but something needs to help against all the cc.

 

i would love the less dumbed down CC from that era. but you are correct, stuns being 10 meters means melee eats them most of the time, aswell as random snares. This is prob the worst as a marauder, especially a carnage mara. but also other melee have this issue..

[Savej]

A DPS without a healer is supposed to lose to a DPS with a healer. That is the entire point of healers.

 

These answers were fine. You guys are complaining just to complain. Your class is in a better situation than most, stop whining.

 

 

read the dev quote I responded to and highlighted in my post " gbtf was being nerfed to give other classes a chance vs a sentinel that has a healer." which is where my response came from. The current gbtf is much harder on healers and a bit harder to use by sents without a healer (they have to time gbtf's end with a medpak while not being cc'd and before that execute gets fired).

[Seengularity]

Hey everyone,

 

Below you will find the answers to your top 3, relayed from the Combat Team. Thanks!

 

 

 

Carnage revolves around the ability to anticipate, plan, and execute periods of burst damage. However, carnage suffers from an inability to fully capitalize on Gore windows due to two distinct issues: Slaughter RNG and the excessive susceptibility to stuns/knockbacks. Due to the RNG design of Slaughter, any unplanned Ataru strikes (i.e those not originating from Massacre) have the potential to replace an available Gore with a Gore from Slaughter, essentially denying a second burst DPS window. Allowing the Gore from Slaughter to activate only when Gore is on cooldown, for instance, would resolve some of the negative aspects of RNG. Second, Gore windows are exceedingly vulnerable to stuns and knockbacks, especially in PVP where these counters are more readily available than Gore itself. Adding a level of protection to Gore windows would further encourage the use of Carnage in competitive PVP and, subsequently, would require a more skillful use of stuns and knockback counters. For example, Gore could be altered so that it remains as a temporary static buff until direct damage is initiated, at which point the 4.5 second window would commence. This would increase the damage potential of carnage and would require players to use stuns and knockbacks more skillfully.

 

Is this inability to fully capitalize on Gore windows intentional and, if so, what is the reasoning behind this decision?

 

To answer the question, yes and no.

 

When the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was first designed, it did not originally reset the cooldown on Gore/Precision Slash. After some play-testing, the thought was that players would just sit on their free Vicious Throw/Dispatch until Gore/Precision Slash was available, so we made the skill reset the cooldown of Gore/Precision Slash as well (to keep players from feeling like they needed to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash buff was active). The Gore/Precision Slash cooldown resets triggered by unplanned Ataru Form strikes was not thoughtfully intended, but rather, it is a byproduct of making sure Marauders/Sentinels do not have to hold off on using Vicious Throw/Dispatch until their Gore/Precision Slash comes off cooldown. However, we did not plan to make Gore/Precision Slash harder to use by resetting its cooldown, because the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was primarily focused on resetting Vicious Throw’s/Dispatch’s cooldown rather than Gore’s/Precision Slash’s cooldown.

 

As for the difficulties presented by various forms of crowd control, that is intended. We will continue to keep our eyes on Marauder/Sentinel and how their overall performance is in PvP. If we feel that they are being outperformed by many of the other classes, we might consider having Gore/Precision Slash grant a few charges with a longer duration that get consumed when damage is dealt to help Marauders/Sentinels use Gore/Precision Slash to its full effect.

 

 

According to the response given in the Jedi Sentinel forums, the development team stated that Annihilation was intended to be the superior spec for sustained DPS. However, this does not hold true when comparing Annihilation to Carnage and hybrid DPS OPs parses. This discrepancy is due to Annihilation's lack of on demand DPS required with target switches. The developer response in the Jedi Sentinel forums regarding Annihilator stacks and buff duration promises to address some of these issues. However, the community feels that additional changes are required. For example, Annihilate could be improved to do bonus damage on bleeding targets or apply a separate bleed. Furthermore, Annihilation DoTs could feature better protection against cleanses and/or provide better options for application/reapplication, such as a bonus effect added to the Pulverize/Rupture reset mechanic (i.e. Annihilate stacks, cooldown reduction, reduced rage costs, crit rating boost etc).

 

Does the development team believe that the design of Annihilation as a sustained DPS spec is performing as expected, especially in a PVE/PVP environment that favors burst damage and target switches?

 

We are not completely satisfied with how Annihilation/Watchman performs. In a vacuum, where no movement is required and the stars align, Annihilation/Watchman is capable of dishing out some massive sustained damage, but that is not the world in which SWTOR gets played. We do intend to make some changes to Annihilation/Watchman in order to improve its performance in both PvE and PvP, but we are not ready to discuss any of the specifics. As we work to improve the performance of Annihilation, we will definitely consider the suggestions made in your question!

 

 

Given the recent changes to the Undying Rage mechanic and the future plans to tone down the AOE damage output of Rage, Marauders are potentially faced with limited options for competitive gameplay. Annihilation greatly suffers from the changes to Undying Rage, as self heals are essentially negated by the backend health cost. Implementing a 3rd party healing debuff with the original front end health cost, for instance, would provide a balance to Undying Rage while keeping Annihilation survivability intact (outside heals are lessened, self heals are not penalized). Furthermore, the changes proposed in patch 2.7 undermine the viability of Rage as an AOE specialization. By allowing Shockwaves originating from Force Crush to affect secondary targets, for instance, Rage can provide some potential for AOE damage. As is, Patch 2.7 threatens to transform Rage into a lackluster single target DPS spec. Meanwhile, Annihilation will continue to suffer from DPS ramp up/target switching issues, and diminished survivability due to the Undying Rage changes.

 

Given the redesign of Undying Rage and the proposed changes to Rage in patch 2.7, can the combat team comment on the future intentions for Marauder specializations, especially as they pertain to performance in competitive gameplay and to the developer comments (see below) regarding AOE based specs?

 

Even with the changes in Game Update 2.7, Rage/Focus looks to remain the burst damage leader among the Marauder/Sentinel specializations (and in PvE, the AoE damage remains unchanged). Meanwhile, Carnage/Combat doesn’t trail too far behind Rage/Focus in the burst damage department, while also providing more sustained damage – assuming the Marauder/Sentinel is able to stick to his/her enemy target long enough to get the job done. Annihilation/Watchman is meant to provide pressure with its sustained damage, but it might require a boost to get this job done properly. For example, we might consider giving Annihilation/Watchman the same kind of periodic damage protection we gave to Madness/Balance Assassins/Shadows and Sorcerers/Sages.

 

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question.

 

 

Answers seem meh... not horrible not good, the questions were not the best / worded well either.

 

When the Slaughter/Hand of Justice skill was first designed, it did not originally reset the cooldown on Gore/Precision Slash. After some play-testing.....

This is wow... basically means they thought of the skill, added into the game, but didn't think of how it would play out in reality? "After some play-testing" ROFL... how can a developer not anticipate this? they really need to put dat sniper away and play something else for once, their own game and all...

 

#1: Just leave carnage alone.

 

#2: This was the weakest question... I remember they had already said Anni still needed help, and that they would do it at some point, but that was sort of a long time ago? Basically the answer is the same as what they had said before, but they're still thinking on when to add this buff in? how much longer is it going to take ?

 

#3: This is just trash. And the nO'Obs who keep asking the same question here over and over again.... Rage IS the highest burst spec for marauder, even @2.7, if you don't get why this is true, please re-roll...

 

Leave Rage alone, do away with the smash bombs (fine ), but do not lower the overall output potential from the old rage... Buff single target abilites, reinstate dat AoE vicious slash... whatever it takes, but rage's overall output potential must NOT be touched in any meaningful way; not when Lethality and Madness builds are still untouched, and Anni sux balls.

 

Also, NewsFlash: Sniper won't be impervious to yellow @dodge come 2.7 anymore.