2.7 Changes Are Awful

[Telaan]

God awful. Go back to the drawing boards.

 

- Smash needed to be tweaked. It's retarded to be capable of hitting multiple targets for 7.5-10k. However all you did was gut smash into, essentially, a single target DPS ability that still suffers from aoe reduction talents. It will be significantly worse than veng. It's a nerf to both maras and juggs, but hits juggs the worst.

 

- Vengence. Seriously. Who brain stormed the changes to enraged defense? All it needed was the removal of the initial rage cost. Now Juggernauts will have yet another 3 min dcd which leaves a massive defensive gap for an already squishy class. At no point did anyone ask for or suggest the upcoming changes. Part of the rational for the lack of veng mobility was that the spec has better survivability. Most of that is granted via ED.

 

- Guardians/Juggernauts were already performing near the bottom in ranked. Was the point of these changes was to put them at the very bottom? /facepalm

 

- Sorc Heals. The healing output can be very good. However, nearly everything is channelled or casted. The spec is much too easily shut down and will continue to suffer from survivability issues. Additionally, it has significant resource management problems that remain to be addressed. Consumption is garbage. It is virtually a suicide button. It needs a better return and increased regen following use.

 

Other players can feel free to chime in with their gripes. These are the classes I play and as such have issue with.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Telaan

[Karkais]

If this is a PVP-related complain, you should post to PVP forum, or at least put PVP in the post title. Not doing so gives the impression that PVPers think the world revolves around them.. That all talk is automatically about PVP..

[OddballEasyEight]

How about trying out the changes before complaining about them?

[Telaan]

If this is a PVP-related complain, you should post to PVP forum, or at least put PVP in the post title. Not doing so gives the impression that PVPers think the world revolves around them.. That all talk is automatically about PVP..

 

Devs very rarely read or post in the pvp forum. Most topics in general discussion could be pushed off to a sub forum.

[Telaan]

How about trying out the changes before complaining about them?

 

It doesn't take a genius to see how alterations to existing skills will affect a class. Most changes have predictable outcomes.

[Karkais]

Devs very rarely read or post in the pvp forum. Most topics in general discussion could be pushed off to a sub forum.

 

Well I do.

 

It doesn't take a genius to see how alterations to existing skills will affect a class. Most changes have predictable outcomes.

 

People (particularly young ones) generally exaggerate everything. At a glance the changes looked nice to me.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Karkais

[Reofeir]

People (particularly young ones) generally exaggerate everything. At a glance the changes looked nice to me.

 

At a glance it seems decent. Now how much anger is coming up doesn't seem exactly 1 to 1 on how bad it can be, but it isn't something to look away for. Loss of potential, possible small changes that might undermine a class, etc.

From a calm, logical standpoint sometimes small things can create big differences. I still suggest we wait and see when 2.7 on PTS comes out so we can test this a bit more before saying "DOOM" but we shouldn't ignore the POSSIBLE outcomes.

[hadoken]

Devs very rarely read or post in the pvp forum.

 

And that's different from General how?

Edited February 18, 2014 by hadoken

[Machshoot]

If this is a PVP-related complain, you should post to PVP forum, or at least put PVP in the post title. Not doing so gives the impression that PVPers think the world revolves around them.. That all talk is automatically about PVP..

 

So PvP threads are not allowed here, yet PvE/GSF/class discussion/anything else you can think of is allowed?

[Icestar]

How about trying out the changes before complaining about them?

 

This x 1000

 

Only reading something does not make it a fact, they need to tweak and test and we as players can try it out on the testserver when the time comes.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Icestar

[Telaan]

This x 1000

 

Only reading something does not make it a fact, they need to tweak and test and we as players can try it out on the testserver when the time comes.

 

History shows that the notes put up are what hit live. The issues raised above are not something that you need to wait-and-see with. They're changes with obvious and predictable outcomes.

 

For example; people complained throughout testing that 2.6 would rebuff operatives to a point that would tip the balance of pvp back in favor of stealth classes. Nearly every thread created prior to 2.6 pled for increased survival rather than a DPS increase. The issue with DPS operatives was that a stiff breeze knocked them down, not their raw DPS output. However, BW found it too technically challenging to increase survivability without impacting healing ops too. BW then proceeded to make those changes on pts and received a lot if negative feedback from both sides. Sure some loved it, who doesn't enjoy a good buff. But a lot of others didn't and predicted the end result. When the changes hit live, without alteration, things blew up. Almost every post created was a nerf operatives thread. Now, one patch later, the class is being renerfed; again, exactly as predicted.

 

This thread has nothing to do with anger. It's usually pretty difficult to determine emotion over the internet. However, I do have a vested interest in seeing good changes. BW is notoriously bad at pvp balance. This is just one more example out of many. I made this post now that in the hopes, slim hopes, that one of the devs will actually interact on the forums in a way other than simply informing us what is going to happen without discussion.

[Technohic]

If this is a PVP-related complain, you should post to PVP forum, or at least put PVP in the post title. Not doing so gives the impression that PVPers think the world revolves around them.. That all talk is automatically about PVP..

 

I'm sorry. Is this the PvE forum? Pretty sure it is called "General Discussion." Think that's kind of all inclusive. It's not called "Specific discussion."

[Icestar]

History shows that the notes put up are what hit live. The issues raised above are not something that you need to wait-and-see with. They're changes with obvious and predictable outcomes.

 

Funny you mention history, I teach that at a university. A lovely way to remember our past.

 

I am aware of all the history and battles between the community and the devs.

Some end well, others does not end that well.

 

I remember a BIG fight we had regarding PvP and the influence of gear when the game launched. There were almost no skill and only gear, after long fights probably several thousands posts they removed it and made a bolster instead.

 

Things can happen, but not instantly.

 

Give it time and rethink your view when the next update of information regarding 2.7 comes up, they have internal testng aswell to check things out. Then we get to test it on the test server.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Icestar

[Telaan]

Well I do.

People (particularly young ones) generally exaggerate everything. At a glance the changes looked nice to me.

 

That's great; but you, like me, are a nobody. I'm sorry, you're unhappy that I created a pvp thread outside the pvp forum; but, as I said earlier, there are a ton of general discussion threads that technically belong in another sub forum.

 

I'm not sure what you're attempting to do with the second sentence. Call me young? Go to the guardian/juggernaut forums and you'll see a lot of the same thing I've said above. Then check out the ranked standings and see where guardians/juggernauts sit.

 

Honestly, if you think you can do what will be happening as described above to smash, and have it not break the spec, it suggests a lack of mechanical understanding. The whole tree was stupidly designed from the start. However, they're nerfing the ONLY thing that makes it a worthwhile spec into the ground. At most, smash will hit secondary and tertiary targets for 2-3k. This effectively makes smash a single target ability. However, it'll be affected by classes which have 30% aoe dr talents. The point of this change is obviously an attempt by BW to move away from hard hitting aoe dmg. That's well and good. But that IS what smash was designed to do. That's where the big numbers at the end of matches came from. AoE means more targets being hit, which means more overall damage.

 

BW needs to go back to the drawing board with the whole spec. It will be pointless in pvp.

[Telaan]

Funny you mention history, I teach that at a university. A lovely way to remember our past.

 

I am aware of all the history and battles between the community and the devs.

Some end well, others does not end that well.

 

I remember a BIG fight we had regarding PvP and the influence of gear when the game launched. There were almost no skill and only gear, after long fights probably several thousands posts they removed it and made a bolster instead.

 

Things can happen, but not instantly.

 

Give it time and rethink your view when the next update of information regarding 2.7 comes up, they have internal testng aswell to check things out. Then we get to test it on the test server.

 

PvPers hate bolster. BW has failed to implement a working system. As it stands lvl 46 blue mods are superior to obroan. I'm not sure using that as a keystone argument is wise.

[Aharx]

Woohoo. Nothing that effects my game play. I feel for you though. I've played many different MMOs over the years and it seems all developers, intentionally or not, change things to your favorite classes right when you start enjoying them or getting used to them the most.

[Malastare]

BW needs to go back to the drawing board with the whole spec. It will be pointless in pvp.

 

Again: Horrible exaggeration. If you can't make your point without exaggeration, then it wasn't worth making in the first place.

 

Jugg/Guardians won't be pointless in PvP, they'll be more challenging. They don't need to go back to the drawing board, they need to tweak them by a percentage point or two.

 

Again, class adjustments are normally on the order of 2-10% differences in peak damage/healing/tanking ability. Actual practice tends to lower those effects. And most importantly: Most people aren't playing even close to peak theoretical output of the class. In reality, the difference in skill from player to player far outweighs the differences in classes due to buffs/nerfs.

 

Actually skilled players can be effective and non-pointless with any spec in the game.

 

PvPers hate bolster.

 

Most PvPers hate bolster because they're not able to dominate others simply by having more free time to get better gear. When put on an even level with other players, they start to realize that what made them good in the past, was just their gear and that loads of other people are actually more effective than they are.

 

The other group that hates it is min/maxers, because no one has made a YouTube video explaining how to do it yet and it's too hard to figure out how to maximize the numbers themselves.

[arunav]

God awful. Go back to the drawing boards.

 

- Smash needed to be tweaked. It's retarded to be capable of hitting multiple targets for 7.5-10k. However all you did was gut smash into, essentially, a single target DPS ability that still suffers from aoe reduction talents. It will be significantly worse than veng. It's a nerf to both maras and juggs, but hits juggs the worst.

 

- Vengence. Seriously. Who brain stormed the changes to enraged defense? All it needed was the removal of the initial rage cost. Now Juggernauts will have yet another 3 min dcd which leaves a massive defensive gap for an already squishy class. At no point did anyone ask for or suggest the upcoming changes. Part of the rational for the lack of veng mobility was that the spec has better survivability. Most of that is granted via ED.

 

- Guardians/Juggernauts were already performing near the bottom in ranked. Was the point of these changes was to put them at the very bottom? /facepalm

 

- Sorc Heals. The healing output can be very good. However, nearly everything is channelled or casted. The spec is much too easily shut down and will continue to suffer from survivability issues. Additionally, it has significant resource management problems that remain to be addressed. Consumption is garbage. It is virtually a suicide button. It needs a better return and increased regen following use.

 

Other players can feel free to chime in with their gripes. These are the classes I play and as such have issue with.

 

The game, generally, has been been moving away from putting a premium on PVP - and that's putting it mildly.

 

I liked the PVP in this game when they updated it properly (at least releasing 2 WZ maps in 2012), and that stopped happening a long while ago. The class balance changes that have been occurring have been primarily to make PVE specs better. And I agree with that, because too many classes weren't viable in endgame PVE due to PVP, particularly some DPS classes. And the PVP they had originally envisioned has been abandoned anyway.

 

It would be great if BW could figure out a system where some skills work differently in PVE and PVP, like they've done recently with the smash-spec. You may not like the results, but this just isn't a PVP-focused game, even though I think it was a mistake on their part not to put out more WZ maps and keep the PVP community engaged and subbed. Star Wars has so many possibilities for good 8v8 battles, and its re-playability value is very high.

 

Limited resources, and they decided to make PVP simple in scope and design, i.e. arenas. Like so many other aspects of this game, potential was very high, execution simply didn't happen.

 

PVP will now be the space game, for the most part, which has a high potential for many players' micro-transactions.

Edited February 18, 2014 by arunav

[Tygranir]

Again: Horrible exaggeration. If you can't make your point without exaggeration, then it wasn't worth making in the first place.

 

Jugg/Guardians won't be pointless in PvP, they'll be more challenging. They don't need to go back to the drawing board, they need to tweak them by a percentage point or two.

 

Again, class adjustments are normally on the order of 2-10% differences in peak damage/healing/tanking ability. Actual practice tends to lower those effects. And most importantly: Most people aren't playing even close to peak theoretical output of the class. In reality, the difference in skill from player to player far outweighs the differences in classes due to buffs/nerfs.

 

Actually skilled players can be effective and non-pointless with any spec in the game.

 

 

 

Most PvPers hate bolster because they're not able to dominate others simply by having more free time to get better gear. When put on an even level with other players, they start to realize that what made them good in the past, was just their gear and that loads of other people are actually more effective than they are.

 

The other group that hates it is min/maxers, because no one has made a YouTube video explaining how to do it yet and it's too hard to figure out how to maximize the numbers themselves.

 

Hey! Stop making sense!!

This thread is about PeeVeePee, so logic is totally not wanted here!

We need to cry now and we need to cry loud!

[Machshoot]

Hey! Stop making sense!!

This thread is about PeeVeePee, so logic is totally not wanted here!

We need to cry now and we need to cry loud!

 

Insinuating that PvE'rs don't cry just as hard and actually use basic logic?

 

C'mon son...

[Technohic]

The worst thing this game has going for it is the cult followers who pretend there is nothing wrong and anyone who says otherwise is crying. I may not agree with their opinion on how it is wrong, but to maintain this attitude and keep the blinders on only serves to allow this game to continue on a downward spiral as it loses players outside of this exclusive white knight club.

[Infernixx]

PVP concerns again?

 

Why is it 'always' the PVPers that post these sorts of pointless crying threads?

[Glorthox]

Pvp whines are really dumb. There is more to games than just PVP. I am still mad as hell about the XS and OS nerf. And now another PVP whiner wants to nerf another classes ability solely for PVP reasons? Good god, can't people just be happy with diversity of all the classes? And if they want balance, go play WoW, I know for a fact that they cater to PVP'ers. Edited February 18, 2014 by Glorthox
typo

[horrorfaneightys]

You know what - there does seem some major hostility to people making any complaint lately. It's like some posters are taking any criticism as a personal insult, rather than just dissatisfaction with an aspect of the game.

 

Using the word "crying" or "whining" is not an appropriate response. Whether the dissatisfaction is valid is another question altogether, and not knowing much about the classes affected, I can't comment on that. But is it so hard for people not to try bait people into arguments by being inflammatory?

[Zoom_VI]

Scappers are getting to keep their newfound burst, albet a minor loss in CC.

Scoudrels are getting that survivability buff that they have been asking for since 1.2.

Smash is getting changed to a more single target aspect, which is something that has been asked for repeatedly since like 1.3 when smash became big.

Sorcs are getting some casting immunities, which they have needed for a long time in PvP.

 

The only change that wasn't demanded by the community was the buff to sniper's Evasion, which seem to have come out of left-field. But really these changes where long asked for by the community. If you have issues with them then you should start a thread demand that BW stop listening to the community because the community doesn't know what they are talking about!