Gunships Fleeing to Carriers

[MCaliban]

I love running back to my capital the moment someone comes towards me. With ion's AOE ability and slow, I can sometimes get more than one person to run after me.

 

The only thing better than killing 1 person with a capital ship turret is killing 2.

[DarthVindictus]

Almost thought you're complaining that gunships are underpowered, if only for a moment. Funny that.

 

P.S. Even as a relatively awful/inexperienced gunship pilot, I manage to blow people up at under 5000m range. Mouse wheel zoom is your friend.

 

That's an extremely huge risk to take to charge up a shot on a scout under 5k range on you, even them just standing still have a 1/3 chance of dodging your shot, it was of course, worse before.

 

This being while they have popped blaster overcharge, bypass, and are plugging you with missiles and burst lasers.

[Zoom_VI]

No sympathy for those dumb enough to follow all the way back to a capital ship chasing a kill (hint, if they head too far away from a satellite, you've chased them off and are contributing to your team's victory by going back to the satellite and defending it/capturing it and engaging other gunships and sending them running)

 

This is fine for dominion, but almost every single TDM I have played has ended up being fought right up next to somebodies capship. The only match I can recall that wasn't fought next to a capship was interestingly enough one that didn't have a single GS in it. Recently I have noticed that many gunships don't even move forward in TDM and just wait for the fighting to come to them over at their spawn. The more gunships the faster this happens.

 

Just make it so that no points are awarded for actions within the safety zone of the capships. Gunships can run back to if they wish, but if they want points they are forced to leave the capship's protection. And its a double edged sword in that if you kill someone that's in their capship's protection you don't get points. Thus it deters spawn camping and running to capship in TDM and to a lesser extent Dominion.

[Helig]

That's an extremely huge risk to take to charge up a shot on a scout under 5k range on you, even them just standing still have a 1/3 chance of dodging your shot, it was of course, worse before.

 

This being while they have popped blaster overcharge, bypass, and are plugging you with missiles and burst lasers.

Because every single enemy closing on you is a Burst laser Sting with Overcharge and Distortion, right?

 

Those ships are no longer FOTM, and all the degenerates rerolled bombers, seeing how dumb Sting pilots get obliterated by mines and drones.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Helig

[Zoom_VI]

Because every single enemy closing on you is a Burst laser Sting with Overcharge and Distortion, right?

 

Those ships are no longer FOTM, and all the degenerates rerolled bombers, seeing how dumb Sting pilots get obliterated by mines and drones.

 

Distortion isn't even that effective against gunships anymore....

[-Streven-]

Just make it so that no points are awarded for actions within the safety zone of the capships. Gunships can run back to if they wish, but if they want points they are forced to leave the capship's protection. And its a double edged sword in that if you kill someone that's in their capship's protection you don't get points. Thus it deters spawn camping and running to capship in TDM and to a lesser extent Dominion.

 

I like this idea.

[reclipsed]

Continue to attack whom? Spawn campers?

 

My heart bleeds.

 

 

If you are near the enemy cap ship, it's either because you have some strange revenge agenda, or because you are dominating them so hard that why not be there? In the first case, no, you shouldn't get to camp the spawn. In the second case, no, you shouldn't get to camp the spawn any better than you already can.

 

The gunship isn't helping his team on that cap ship, and has no one to shoot. If he has someone to shoot, that person isn't helping his team either, and probably deserves that bypass slug crit.

 

He isn't 'contributing to offense" by ANY stretch of the imagination.

 

Stop being logical on the forums, you supposed to cry and complain...not be have smarts in the thinking head thing

[Sidenti]

I guess you never played against Republic Gunships in Lost Shipyard Domination

 

Uh, yeah. I have. Quite a bit, actually - I've been flying regularly since December 3. Gunships are a bit of a specialty of mine.

 

That's the problem with guesses. More often than not, they're wrong.

[Danylia]

Uh, yeah. I have. Quite a bit, actually - I've been flying regularly since December 3. Gunships are a bit of a specialty of mine.

Yet you said "It's a tactic generally only employed with effectiveness in deathmatches, and usually only by a team that's behind on the scoreboard."

[DarthVindictus]

This is fine for dominion, but almost every single TDM I have played has ended up being fought right up next to somebodies capship. The only match I can recall that wasn't fought next to a capship was interestingly enough one that didn't have a single GS in it. Recently I have noticed that many gunships don't even move forward in TDM and just wait for the fighting to come to them over at their spawn. The more gunships the faster this happens.

 

Just make it so that no points are awarded for actions within the safety zone of the capships. Gunships can run back to if they wish, but if they want points they are forced to leave the capship's protection. And its a double edged sword in that if you kill someone that's in their capship's protection you don't get points. Thus it deters spawn camping and running to capship in TDM and to a lesser extent Dominion.

 

Depends on how well matched the game is.

 

I've had blow out games where it was literally spawn camping and then people started rolling gunships even if they didn't start out as gunships so they could actually do something other than get farmed, and I've been in TDM's with 3-4 gunships on both sides and we fought it out in the middle where there were a lot of obstacles to LoS with. Since the score was under 4 difference, nobody could push each other back to cap ships.

 

Really what pushes back to cap ships? Scout vs Gunship matchups.

 

The more scouts in a match where there are gunships, the more often those gunships have to flee back to capital ships, because they cannot fight scouts in a dog fight.

 

If a fight is mostly bombers, strikes, and gunships, they'll fight in the middle.

 

If a fight is mostly bombers, strikes, and scouts, they'll fight in the middle.

 

If theres' a lot of scouts and multiple gunships, it's likely to push towards the capital ships because a gunship cannot fight a scout that is on their tail.

[Sidenti]

Yet you said "It's a tactic generally only employed with effectiveness in deathmatches, and usually only by a team that's behind on the scoreboard."

 

Yeah. Because it's a damned well near worthless tactic to employ in Domination. Why the hell would you set up near the capital ships in Domination? There's no point. The BEST gunships can do is fly back and forth, which requires a specific loadout that prevents autotargeting. One good Pike or Quell can just chase them back and forth all match while the team takes and holds the objective. What's the gunny gonna do near the capital ship? Nothing but run around and have a tough time setting up.

 

Disruption. It's a standard tactic that ruins a gunship wall in Domination. But you knew that. Right? ;-)

[BrianDavion]

easy solution, move the capships back a little and then make their turrents have a 20km range.

[Markviper]

You guys keep playing the "if you are that close to a cap ship then you must be camping" card but are not looking at everything going on. Let's say I am in a scout or strike, I go to chase down a gunship sitting on one of the sats. He immediatly turns around and barrel-rolls toward his cap ship. Being set up for dogfighting I have retro and cannot barrel roll to him instantly so I hit the afterburners. I catch up to him and get a few shots off and he barrel-rolls again, completing his journey to the safety of his ship. I see the ship and turn around to engage something else. Now I have my back to the gunship and in open space with no cover as I move back to the real fight, and if in my strike, most likely out of engine power and sniped by the same gunship that just fled since he now knows he can hit me without fear of taking any damage himself.

Now there is the deathmatch scenario where the enemy team gets ahead by a few points then all turtle on their cap ship with 5 gunships. Well we can fall back and make them come to us like you say, but knowing they are in the lead will just stay there to wait out the timer and win. Or we can all bum rush them, and they turn tail to run back to the safety of mommy.

[-Streven-]

You guys keep playing the "if you are that close to a cap ship then you must be camping" card but are not looking at everything going on. Let's say I am in a scout or strike, I go to chase down a gunship sitting on one of the sats. He immediatly turns around and barrel-rolls toward his cap ship. Being set up for dogfighting I have retro and cannot barrel roll to him instantly so I hit the afterburners. I catch up to him and get a few shots off and he barrel-rolls again, completing his journey to the safety of his ship. I see the ship and turn around to engage something else. Now I have my back to the gunship and in open space with no cover as I move back to the real fight, and if in my strike, most likely out of engine power and sniped by the same gunship that just fled since he now knows he can hit me without fear of taking any damage himself.

Now there is the deathmatch scenario where the enemy team gets ahead by a few points then all turtle on their cap ship with 5 gunships. Well we can fall back and make them come to us like you say, but knowing they are in the lead will just stay there to wait out the timer and win. Or we can all bum rush them, and they turn tail to run back to the safety of mommy.

 

In scenario 1 the problem you descirbed is a build issue. Your build isn't equipped for long chases with gunships. Solution, quit chasing them so far. Manage your tactics because the game can't be balanced around your preference of strike build. If you're going to be the guy on your team that hunts/harasses gunships take a long range scout. Also, you're never that far away from cover.

 

Scenario 2. Haven't seen it yet personally and I've played a LOT of rounds. Count me skeptical that it's really occurring. I get that its possible but most people really want to play the game not just play for wins and besides that strategy doesn't get the winning team much requisition.

[Markviper]

In scenario 1 the problem you descirbed is a build issue. Your build isn't equipped for long chases with gunships. Solution, quit chasing them so far. Manage your tactics because the game can't be balanced around your preference of strike build. If you're going to be the guy on your team that hunts/harasses gunships take a long range scout. Also, you're never that far away from cover.

 

Scenario 2. Haven't seen it yet personally and I've played a LOT of rounds. Count me skeptical that it's really occurring. I get that its possible but most people really want to play the game not just play for wins and besides that strategy doesn't get the winning team much requisition.

 

In scenario 1 I was simply painting a picture for people to understand things that happen more than just simply trying to spawn camp, I do have a nova set up specifically for gunships with barrel and sab probe, but you shouldn't have to have a specific build set up specifically to counter someone trying to exploit an instant kill safe zone just because they refuse to fight.

On another note, when I play my GS I refuse to use that coward's tactic, I will either run to allies or attempt to kill them myself somehow but running to my cap ship is completely out of the question. If you have any shred of skill, there are plenty of tactics a GS pilot can use to survive a dogfighter.

[Verain]

Your injection of "cowardice" into a straightforward positioning scenario is a lot of why you are angry.

 

 

If you don't build your ship to be good at chase and escape, then don't be shocked when a gunship who has specced this way can escape. You already have many options available to you that are strong, you just can't bear to accept that you made a tactical choice with some disadvantages. Where's your emp pulse? That disable barrel roll for FIFTEEN SECONDS? Oh, you probably run a flashfire/sting, right? You probably decided that the intense burst power was worth it, and now you don't like that there's a downside if someone builds to run away (because there's no gunship build that can tank the burst, or dogfight you, or do anything but run or die).

 

 

You made your bed man!

Edited February 14, 2014 by Verain

[MCaliban]

You guys keep playing the "if you are that close to a cap ship then you must be camping" card but are not looking at everything going on. Let's say I am in a scout or strike, I go to chase down a gunship sitting on one of the sats. He immediatly turns around and barrel-rolls toward his cap ship. Being set up for dogfighting I have retro and cannot barrel roll to him instantly so I hit the afterburners. I catch up to him and get a few shots off and he barrel-rolls again, completing his journey to the safety of his ship. I see the ship and turn around to engage something else. Now I have my back to the gunship and in open space with no cover as I move back to the real fight, and if in my strike, most likely out of engine power and sniped by the same gunship that just fled since he now knows he can hit me without fear of taking any damage himself.

 

This is a bit like a gunship player complaining that they fly right into the middle of dogfights when their shields are low and tend to end up dead.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I see the ship and turn around to engage something else. Now I have my back to the gunship and in open space with no cover as I move back to the real fight, and if in my strike, most likely out of engine power and sniped by the same gunship that just fled since he now knows he can hit me without fear of taking any damage himself.

 

This could easily be solved and avoided with situational awareness. Whether you're specced as a gunship hunter-killer or for dogfighting use your minimap to help determine whether you can pursue and kill before they reach the cap ship or not.

 

You have no one to blame but yourself if you continue to pursue them beyond the cover at the edge of the capital ship, and find yourself in no-mans land with them still alive. You didn't have to pursue them that far but you made the choice that you could kill them before they reached safety, it went south on you and now you have to accept the consequences of a bad judgement call.

[Markviper]

Fleeing isn't really the issue, I would expect any GS pilot who is paying attention to his surroundings to do so when he starts getting attacked by a dogfighter... that makes sense. And if you can get away from me, (which you probably can with my build) Then good on you. But you can go run to friends to help you or if positioning is favorable, and they are coming straight at you, tank it and burn them down with fortress or feedback and your own lasers. But typically fleeing is the best option. Only have a problem with it when they pull the coward's card of running to the cap ship to gain protection from an NPC that will cause an instant kill. It's like some of these people don't even try to use any tactics, their first instinct is to turn and instant barrel roll to the ship. Ive actually had to make a nova set up specifically for this with sab probe and EMP. So again, running is fine, I don't expect you to just sit there and take it but use some real tactics or go find help from friends.

 

In ground pvp, is there a spot that you can run to and any pursuers get insta killed? No, you spawn in an area that enemies cannot get to and once you drop down into the field you have to stay and fight. Make the spawn point a large bubble that enemies cannot enter or get exhaustion, and until you yourself leave or attack (and actually hit) an enemy you are safe in there. But once you leave or damage an enemy you can also not return without getting exhaustion.

 

On another note, played a deathmatch the other day where this Imp GS pilot, even though he would flee, appeared to be avoiding this tactic, running away from or along side of the ships but never to them. Unless he shot me directly, I actually left him alone most of the match out of respect for not using this ship "tactic".

Edited February 16, 2014 by Markviper

[Gavin_Kelvar]

It's like some of these people don't even try to use any tactics, their first instinct is to turn and instant barrel roll to the ship. Ive actually had to make a nova set up specifically for this with sab probe and EMP. So again, running is fine, I don't expect you to just sit there and take it but use some real tactics or go find help from friends.

 

To be fair this is a tactic whether you like it or not. Maybe the situation is that the nearest allies are in a big dogfight so fleeing there is "out of the frying pan, into the fire" sort of thing. Heck I use this tactic in my striker when I know that my only play to survive is to flee to the carrier because fleeing towards allies also means fleeing towards even more enemies who will try to shoot me down.

 

Holding you ground in a GS and, in essence, dogfighting isn't any more of a "tactic" than it would be for me to sit in my striker at 10K meters and try to shoot down a GS with only torpedoes. Sure in either case you could do that when you have no other option but it is hardly a smart move and thus not at all employing (good) tactics. (Assuming here "tactics" means understanding your strengths, weaknesses and those of your opponent and doing your best to avoid situations that play to your weakness and their strengths).

 

The only reason they probably use this tactic is because it is effective thanks to pilots who blindly pursue until getting blown out the sky by the carrier. Plus if it takes longer to get to your carrier fleeing to there can actually make a lot of tactical sense because you've just taken 1 (or possibly more) enemies out of the fight as you lead them on a chase where (if you're lucky) they'll be pursuing so blindly that they'll get blown up by your carrier and basically give your team a point.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Royox]

Everytime I fight vs a gunship with my flashfire:

 

-I hit him with blaster and try to lock on missile

-He panics at 1st scratch, uses his boost skill and flyes full stpeed to mothership.

-I chase till too close to mothership.

-He turns around

-I use backflip and scape at full speed

-Then he tryes to catch me

-I use backflip again and start shooting him (they usually don't expect us to use "defensive engine skills" to offensive purpose)

 

Aaaand again...

-He panics at 1st scratch, uses his boost skill and flyes full stpeed to mothership.

-I chase till too close to mothership.

-He turns around

-I use backflip and scape at full speed

-Then he tryes to catch me

-I use backflip again and start shooting him.

 

Aaand again....

 

So....we are just 2 idiots doing absolute nothing. I'm not killing....he's not killing. This is the Dogfight Bioware wants?

[Mallorik]

I wish they would add taunts to GSF so you could make fun of people who run to their spawn guns.

[Verain]

So....we are just 2 idiots doing absolute nothing. I'm not killing....he's not killing. This is the Dogfight Bioware wants?

 

No, since you are the one choosing to do it, it's the dogfight you want. You could instead go LoS him and then only scare him back if he comes around again.

[Korithras]

No, since you are the one choosing to do it, it's the dogfight you want. You could instead go LoS him and then only scare him back if he comes around again.

 

Not exactly. Depends on the situation. The point of the matter is, the behavior needs to be discouraged and penalized so that people won't do it anymore. Not only does it take away from the fun of the game, it's cowardly and unsportsmanlike.

[mighty_joe]

Not exactly. Depends on the situation. The point of the matter is, the behavior needs to be discouraged and penalized so that people won't do it anymore. Not only does it take away from the fun of the game, it's cowardly and unsportsmanlike.

 

why?

seems to me like a very good strategy for gunship pilots.

 

you fail to follow the maxims:

47. Don't expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.

 

war is hell.

Edited February 17, 2014 by mighty_joe