46s in armor/mh/oh

[Missandei]

Not at all.

 

It means that anyone can spend a minimal amount of credits/planetary comms and obtain a slight gear advantage over people that spent a ton of their time and effort obtaining top-tier PvP gear.

 

In a contest of equal skill, the advantage goes to the player sporting mid-level PvE gear.

 

If it sounds like I'm supporting a gear gap, I'm not. I actually hate grinding for gear. But SWTOR was designed, built, and marketed as a GEAR-DRIVEN MMORPG. This entire game is structured around the gear treadmill and now there's a way around it. Not only can you avoid it altogether, you can actually place yourself in a better position than the folks who geared according to the game's design.

 

That kind of bad design tends to leave a foul taste in peoples' mouths.

 

Its not a Design issue.

Its more of a psychology issue of a bad players.

bad players think that if they will invest time to GRIND the gear or maybe even spend the MONEY to get the best gear it would give them advantages over other players. Such people are not trying to master the skills. They have an excuse for their failures as a flaws of game design... They say - what a BS! I had spend XX hours for a grind (or $$ for a gear) and some player with IQ more than average kills me! Thats a total BS! I spend so much resources! I have to have a «instant win» button for all my efforts!

[Marius_Xerxes]

Not at all.

 

It means that anyone can spend a minimal amount of credits/planetary comms and obtain a slight gear advantage over people that spent a ton of their time and effort obtaining top-tier PvP gear.

 

In a contest of equal skill, the advantage goes to the player sporting mid-level PvE gear.

 

If it sounds like I'm supporting a gear gap, I'm not. I actually hate grinding for gear. But SWTOR was designed, built, and marketed as a GEAR-DRIVEN MMORPG. This entire game is structured around the gear treadmill and now there's a way around it. Not only can you avoid it altogether, you can actually place yourself in a better position than the folks who geared according to the game's design.

 

That kind of bad design tends to leave a foul taste in peoples' mouths.

 

I get that. I have numerous (8) 55's in either min/max Conq or Oberon. I did/have done the grind since launch. I don't mind that players with less time then me have a route to being competitive, from a gear standpoint, in much less time.

 

I PvP to, well, PvP. I don't do it to get gear. I do it to play against that guy/girl behind the other computer. As far as im concerned this bolster bug just made gearing for PvP a non issue.

[RodneyMcNeely]

Its not a Design issue.

Its more of a psychology issue of a bad players.

bad players think that if they will invest time to GRIND the gear or maybe even spend the MONEY to get the best gear it would give them advantages over other players. Such people are not trying to master the skills. They have an excuse for their failures as a flaws of game design... They say - what a BS! I had spend XX hours for a grind (or $$ for a gear) and some player with IQ more than average kills me! Thats a total BS! I spend so much resources! I have to have a «instant win» button for all my efforts!

Well, Sir. Unlike yourself, most of us were born with hopelessly average reflexes, hand-eye coordination, and intelligence quotients. We depend on gear elevate ourselves above the foaming swells of bland mediocrity we were born into.

 

As you stand upon the banks of Lake Superiority all we can ask is this: would you please wade into the shallow end, unfurl the endless cord that is your knowledge, and throw us a life preserver? We can't possibly do it on our own.

Edited February 7, 2014 by RodneyMcNeely

[PloGreen]

Well, Sir. Unlike yourself, most of us were born with hopelessly average reflexes, hand-eye coordination, and intelligence quotients. We depend on gear elevate ourselves above the foaming swells of bland mediocrity we were born into.

 

As you stand upon the banks of Lake Superiority all we can ask is this: would you please wade into the shallow end, unfurl the endless cord that is your knowledge, and throw us a life preserver? We can't possibly do it on our own.

 

lol

[PloGreen]

Dont see any problem.

It could be an issue only to the people who go to WZ not to have the fun from PvP but out of the «grind instinct».

 

You don't see a problem with 46 46 46 being better than the gear you are supposed to obtain from pvping?

 

I imagine I do and so do many other people. It renders the whole exercise pointless, if you cannot see why that is a problem for people and have to attach some kind of bad player psychology thing to this you have some strange logic.

[Missandei]

You don't see a problem with 46 46 46 being better than the gear you are supposed to obtain from pvping?

 

I imagine I do and so do many other people. It renders the whole exercise pointless, if you cannot see why that is a problem for people and have to attach some kind of bad player psychology thing to this you have some strange logic.

 

The logic is that if i go into the WZ i expect the enemies have the same gear as i have.

 

What im saying is that when «you and many other people» are going into WZ expecting that enemies have a lot worse gear than yours so you can oneshot them - it is some kind of selfconfidence issue..

I imagine you are also could have alot of Fun going to the lowbie planets and ganking the lvl 30-40 ppl with your full Oboran augmented gear.

 

The point is - WHY DO YOU EVER concerned about how your opponent got the gear? The PvP is about the skill. It is PvE that about the Gear mostly.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Missandei

[Marius_Xerxes]

You don't see a problem with 46 46 46 being better than the gear you are supposed to obtain from pvping?

 

Well to be totally fair, you can convert your WZ coms into planetary coms. So you can totally buy the 46/46/46 setup from nothing but pvping.

[Pistols]

The logic is that if i go into the WZ i expect the enemies have the same gear as i have.

 

What im saying is that when «you and many other people» are going into WZ expecting that enemies have a lot worse gear than yours so you can oneshot them - it is some kind of selfconfidence issue..

I imagine you are also could have alot of Fun going to the lowbie planets and ganking the lvl 30-40 ppl with your full Oboran augmented gear.

 

The point is - WHY DO YOU EVER concerned about how your opponent got the gear? The PvP is about the skill. It is PvE that about the Gear mostly.

 

This is one reason why the game fails ^^

Edited February 7, 2014 by Pistols

[MystbladeWA]

So I am mildly confused as to why everyone is referencing lvl 46 mods. I can only find or craft lvl 45 or lvl 47.

[Missandei]

So I am mildly confused as to why everyone is referencing lvl 46 mods. I can only find or craft lvl 45 or lvl 47.

 

It is level of the mod. Not the level of your toon you need to have to wear it.

Basically they are tier 20 mods.

They are shown in the list as - (46) Advanced Aptitude Mod 20 - require lvl 45 to equip

Edited February 7, 2014 by Missandei

[Easpeak]

So I am mildly confused as to why everyone is referencing lvl 46 mods. I can only find or craft lvl 45 or lvl 47.

 

Because once you put them into your armor 45s show up as 46s, but do go on using those in your weapon and gimping your weapon damage based abilities.

[Missandei]

but do go on using those in your weapon and gimping your weapon damage based abilities.

 

That is depend on your class and usually you are getting some benefit over the PvP weapon.

Though the BiS setup is of MH/OH only. You are still got better stats when wear the PvP gear for a garb slots..

Edited February 7, 2014 by Missandei

[Missandei]

This is one reason why the game fails ^^

 

..Just a typical example right away: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=720580

[MystbladeWA]

Because once you put them into your armor 45s show up as 46s, but do go on using those in your weapon and gimping your weapon damage based abilities.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I see this as a method to be more effective and competitive as a fresh 55, not as a replacement for min/max Obroan.

[PloGreen]

The logic is that if i go into the WZ i expect the enemies have the same gear as i have.

 

What im saying is that when «you and many other people» are going into WZ expecting that enemies have a lot worse gear than yours so you can oneshot them - it is some kind of selfconfidence issue..

I imagine you are also could have alot of Fun going to the lowbie planets and ganking the lvl 30-40 ppl with your full Oboran augmented gear.

 

The point is - WHY DO YOU EVER concerned about how your opponent got the gear? The PvP is about the skill. It is PvE that about the Gear mostly.

 

I expect gear I obtain from pvp to be better gear than 46 46 46 mods. In a lot of Mmos, particularly this one the pvp was intended to have a gear progression path. Part of the skill in mmo's is min maxing your character, learning how the mechanics work, and a reacting to what it is in front of you. That you expect to be able to step into a warzone without following the design of the game is a preference in design choice and nothing more than that. A lot of us like gear progression, you may not but that is your opinion. Bolster was designed so people would not get one shot, i have no problem with making the gear gap smaller for noobies, casuals, lazy bastards, or people like yourself who don't like gear progression in gear progression games. What I do have a problem with is when people can exploit that the system to gain a stat advantage over people that have put some effort into min maxing their toons, and following the gear path that was put in the game by intention.

 

If you cannot understand that, then its pointless trying to actually discuss it with you. Keep attaching whatever bollocks you like to why people have a problem with this, or you can actually read what I have said. You are in effect trying to force your own bias and opinion on to everyone else, when all I am actually doing is telling you why I think it's a problem, and it is a problem. Top tier pvp gear should be the best pvp gear, simple as that.

 

From what I have read from your response, you imagine a lot of things.

Edited February 7, 2014 by PloGreen

[Lundorff]

Not to worry, this will be fixed relatively soon. Why? Money. The gear grind is for many the actual goal (or at least part of the goal) and the game is heavily constructed as a time sink based on that grind. Giving people the opportunity to bypass the grind will make them spend less time on game and, directly or indirectly, less money as well. For this reason I would expect a more or less complete revamp of the PVP gear / bolster system within a few months time.

 

In short: Status quo = less money for EA.

[Alexhpy]

Not to worry, this will be fixed relatively soon. Why? Money. The gear grind is for many the actual goal (or at least part of the goal) and the game is heavily constructed as a time sink based on that grind. Giving people the opportunity to bypass the grind will make them spend less time on game and, directly or indirectly, less money as well. For this reason I would expect a more or less complete revamp of the PVP gear / bolster system within a few months time.

 

In short: Status quo = less money for EA.

 

This has been going on for about a year... so it depends on your definition of Soon. :-)

 

Eventually we will all use so many exploits like this one that a new player that saved his commendations to buy the PvP gear as he dings 55 will enter a warzone and get 1shotted.

 

Maybe the community rep can give us an answer? He said he is reading every thread so he will look here too... let`s call him out ?

 

EDIT: A solution would be to make bolster give stats slightly lower than the first set of PvP gear you can buy. So you have a progression... you enter naked, then upgrade to the first set and you are more powerful, then to the Tier 2 PvP gear and you are slightly more powerful. Just like it works for PvE....

 

Right now you can skip all that buy PvE gear and have better stats compared to the T2 PvP gear.... clearly not intended.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Alexhpy

[alexzk]

Oh ye...we had "naked" better than any gear already..

They started to bolster even FPs (latest added)...so I guess they could remove gear in couple years at all. I would flatten all stats according to character level, and do some spendable points like we have with skills now to add to stats. You can earn those points doing things like fps/ops/wzs each new time - less till zero per run.

Edited February 7, 2014 by alexzk

[Arutar]

The point is - WHY DO YOU EVER concerned about how your opponent got the gear? The PvP is about the skill. It is PvE that about the Gear mostly.

 

Thank you for saying that PVPers have no right to any gear progression, and therefore NO right to any endgame progression at all.

 

Also, following your twisted logic, why shouldn`t PVE be then not also only about skill and not about gear?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Arutar

[Arutar]

Could you elaborate what the bug is and why you are concerned?

 

Maybe you just should read any of the countless Bioware postings since the introduction of this system to lvl 55 how Bolster is supposed to work, according to the developers.

 

Then compare this to the way Bolster has worked and still is working since the introduction, as shown by the OP (among others).

 

Even you might by able to note a significant deviation between these too.

 

Such a deviation between the way a program is supposed to work and the way it is working is often reffered to as a "bug".

 

See, that wasnt so hard, was it?

[Missandei]

Thank you for saying that PVPers have no right to any gear progression, and therefore NO right to any endgame progression at all.

 

Also, following your twisted logic, why shouldn`t PVE be then not also only about skill and not about gear?

 

Because the PvE concept is to do the same rotations all over again in all the situations.

You just have different geared opponents. Thus you can CHOOSE by yourself what opponents you are want to face.

If you have one gear - you go into lvl 50 stroymode

If you have better gear - you go into lvl 55 storymode

If you have even better gear - you go into lvl 55 Hard Mode

 

There is no such thing in PvE that you queue for a random Flashpoint and only when you enter you can see that it is for a lvl10 geared party or for a 78lvl dread guard geared..

This way the PvE players can always have fun doing the content because you are able to chose the content for your level and gear.

 

I would not «complain» if there will be a strict matchmaking system for PvP that will select the identical geared opponents. What you are defending is the Right To Destroy a Bad Geared Opponents.

 

I cant say for you but i personally had the most fun when WZ have the equally geared and skilled teams. When the match was lasted full duration and the outcome was not certain till the last seconds.

The matches where we can totally destroy the opponents doing like 50 kiils each for 0-1 kills from other team was not of big interest to me. Feel free to continue to call me a weird person.

 

What is PvP? Actually lets take a soccer for example. 11 vs 11 players. The only difference is the color of the outfit.

[Missandei]

Maybe you just should read any of the countless Bioware postings since the introduction of this system to lvl 55 how Bolster is supposed to work, according to the developers.

 

I dont need to read that. Devs usually cant allow to talk frankly because of the fear to infuriate one customer groups or another.. Most of it is only a PR stuff meant to calm the readers. nothing more. Thats why we have alot of «Soon» responses without any direct dates

 

I was here from the launch and had experienced all the variations of the PvP gearing system.

No dedicated PvP gear, the introduction of the expertise, the huge gap between PvE and PvP gear, the free basic PvP gear to make PvE player be able to have a start, the understanding that for a top-tier PvP gear the recruit geared opponents are no more than a cannon fodder, and the Bolster.

 

Bolster was supposed to even the gear gap *in the Warzones*.

For me - it is the possibility to not start the WZ by checking the teammates gear and counting the liabilities.

 

I honestly dont understand all this fuzz about PvP progression and grind.

In my opinion the pure PvP grind should consist of Ratings, Valor, Titles, rare colors for a gear etc.. the vanity stuff basically.

 

and as for now, the conq PvP gear is more than enough to be able to participate in StoryModes of the PvE content.

You do your PvP commendations grind - making yourself viable for a PvE.

And if you want to do PvP - you should challenge the opponents. not the opponent's gear.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Missandei

[RyderQuanTy]

lets be hones it way more fon if you and your team is compative bolster is great it makes the wz fun please do not remove bolster

[Alexhpy]

lets be hones it way more fon if you and your team is compative bolster is great it makes the wz fun please do not remove bolster

 

Its not about removing it, its about not allowing it to make level 46 pve items better than level 55 Obroan gear...

[Arutar]

Bolster was supposed to even the gear gap *in the Warzones*.

 

And even there it has failed, I might add.

 

The gear difference is still significant. HP ranges usually between 26,5 and 33,5 K, not counting tanks - which is still a huge gap. Just now, thanks to the craptastic bolster, proper gearing has become more arcane than ever - and thus more difficult for very casual players to understand.

 

I do not know how many times I have whispered to people in WZ to explain to them that their lvl 50 pvp gear is worse than greens (even though their lvl 50 gear has better stats on paper outside the warzone) - not as an insult, just in order to help them to become better.

 

Whether bolster is a good idea doesnt even matter. It has to be at the very least implemented properly, i.e. the bolster effect should be in particular understandandble/forseeable, which it is not, as the OP (among others) have demonstrated over and over.

 

There is obviously a reason that Bioware has not given us a mathy explanantion of how bolster really works yet, even though they had promised this after the naked bolster fiasco (another highlight in the history of this glorious mechanism).