So, can we have ranked 8v8s back now?

[ZooMzy]

Since these arenas are, well, garbage?

 

Would like the game to return to Skill > Class, than the other way around.

[HaoZhao]

Yeah, please bring back ranked 8vs8. The ratings would mean so much with the same 2-4 teams on each server fighting each other over and over and over again with 1-2 teams obliterating all of the others. What a great leaderboard we could generate from this. Yes, sir.

 

Ask again in 2020 when we have cross server queues.

[cashogy_reborn]

Im really hoping that they introduce an 8v8 Ranked Huttball game mode once they release the new Huttball map.

 

Which I really though would have been released by now.......

[ZooMzy]

Yeah, please bring back ranked 8vs8. The ratings would mean so much with the same 2-4 teams on each server fighting each other over and over and over again with 1-2 teams obliterating all of the others. What a great leaderboard we could generate from this. Yes, sir.

 

Ask again in 2020 when we have cross server queues.

 

Better than cookie cutter arenas where only certain classes can actually excel in, in addition to the fact that the leaderboards actually prove nothing since a majority of them are exploiters, farmers, and cheaters anyway. One weak link in an arena team = loss while you could at least carry someone a little bit in an 8v8 ranked match.

 

Arenas are the stepping stone. Death match teaches you how to focus and kill a team/save one, and ranked 8v8 teaches you how to do that with more players and an objective to worry about as well.

[Puissant]

The ratings would mean so much with the same 2-4 teams on each server fighting each other over and over and over again with 1-2 teams obliterating all of the others. What a great leaderboard we could generate from this. Yes, sir.

Are you talking about arenas?

[SEANeD]

Bring back 8s as a season 1 reward since we all know there are absolutely no rewards on the horizon anyways.

[Raansu]

Since these arenas are, well, garbage?

 

Would like the game to return to Skill > Class, than the other way around.

 

Garbage by who's standards? Don't act like you speak for everyone. I like arenas more than 8v8's. I guess that means I speak for everyone and that means 8v8's are garbage eh?

[TheCourier-]

Ranked 8 versus 8 was way more fun than arenas. Arenas are literally whichever team has a hybrid healer and/or tank wins. The hybrid healing sorc being listed as a DPS instead of a healer is ridiculous, and more things in skill trees should be tied to stances than currently are. Team ranked arenas heavily favor ranged DPS.

 

Every class had at least 1 viable spec for ranked 8 versus 8. Most classes had at least 2 viable specs.

Edited January 26, 2014 by TheCourier-

[Raansu]

Ranked 8 versus 8 was way more fun than arenas. Arenas are literally whichever team has a hybrid healer and/or tank wins. The hybrid healing sorc being listed as a DPS instead of a healer is ridiculous, and more things in skill trees should be tied to stances than currently are. Team ranked arenas heavily favor ranged DPS.

 

Every class had at least 1 viable spec for ranked 8 versus 8. Most classes had at least 2 viable specs.

 

1.) That's only in solo which could be easily fixed by forcing people to put full 36 points into a single tree before even being allowed to queue.

 

2.) That is not true at all. Team ranked does not heavily favor ranged.

[RiChess]

Your first mistake was thinking BW gives two ***** about meaningful PvP. Step 1. Are the kids happy? Step 2. There is no step 2.

[iDerrien]

i like the 4vs4 more, so speak for yourself.

[Sangrar]

I want 8v8 back too but, here is the thing, we did have it once and people abandoned it, whats to stop the same thing from happening again? Just asking, though honestly more incentives and rewards (especially the ones Bioware promised for participating in ranked that they probably should have revealed) might keep it alive. Just saying.

[ZooMzy]

Garbage by who's standards? Don't act like you speak for everyone. I like arenas more than 8v8's. I guess that means I speak for everyone and that means 8v8's are garbage eh?

 

Garbage by mine, as well as apparently a few others. Arenas are trash because:

 

1) They require certain comp builds, making your class and spec the most important factor in a match, probably around say 60% of the total factor. Skill and even gear has taken a back seat even further so, and I would love to see you try and argue how fun arenas are as a Sorc healer without a guard.

 

2) They are heavily reliant on the four people on a team. You fight one person down in them, your disadvantage in a WZ is ridiculously greater than in an 8v8, even without respawns.

 

3) They are incredibly simple. Focus and gank someone, use pushbacks on top of things and mez/taunt the highest DPSers or stun lock and push them back, or focus heals on who's getting bursted. Outside of that, there is nothing to it.

 

So please, tell me why you like arenas so much then if I don't speak for you. Because I never quite understood the mind of a simple deathmatch noob that feels great about themselves now that the devs decided to promote their dream game over the one they made for people who actually enjoy a challenge, if I'm allowed to jump to conclusions like yourself.

 

I want 8v8 back too but, here is the thing, we did have it once and people abandoned it, whats to stop the same thing from happening again? Just asking, though honestly more incentives and rewards (especially the ones Bioware promised for participating in ranked that they probably should have revealed) might keep it alive. Just saying.

 

Nothing actually, but let's be realistic: people have already abandoned this as well too.

 

My proposed theory is to have both, as arenas provide a perfect stepping stone to ranked 8v8. The various single minded thinking and knowledge over how to kill things and the clear indication of what classes melt under focus fire developed in arenas would easily mix the game up in a ranked 8v8 setting, which you would have to perform the same tactics in a group of 8 with an objective to worry about as well.

 

Bringing 8v8s back would provide the game in a manner as such:

 

Regs = SM PvE

Ranked 4v4s = HM

Ranked 8v8s = NiM

 

Why? Because ranked 8v8s are a pain to form teams for, so don't expect to compete in that bracket all the time. But while you form teams for the real matches, you can work on honing your deathmatch skill with random pugs in a ranked arena, or even take a group of 4 and see how well certain classes mesh together against another comp.

 

You keep the HM noobs like the kiddos above happy, and you give the real players NiM content as well. Thus, ideally, the problem is solved.

[Prapcaster]

4v4 sucks ***. It's almost always uneven teams and when it is it's 4 dps vs 3 healers and 1 dps:mad:

[jadjay]

So who are you going to play against in these 8v8s? Without cross server ques you will be facing what, 2 or 3 teams over and over and over. You will be waiting in que all night. Its already really slow with 4v4, 8v8 will be worse. There are some other issues that need to be fixed before 8v8s can come back and work but that just aint gonna happen as bioware has stated. Dont look for 8v8s anytime soon.

[ZooMzy]

So who are you going to play against in these 8v8s? Without cross server ques you will be facing what, 2 or 3 teams over and over and over. You will be waiting in que all night. Its already really slow with 4v4, 8v8 will be worse. There are some other issues that need to be fixed before 8v8s can come back and work but that just aint gonna happen as bioware has stated. Dont look for 8v8s anytime soon.

 

Would rather the option be there, as the devs shouldn't base PvP success on activity in the queue. The majority of the people that support the actual core ideals of PvP are the very small group, as many people don't PvP on this game because they don't like actual competition/sport type game modes. Naturally, PvP is going to always take a back seat, as the player majority either doesn't care for it or they don't actually want to put effort into becoming a competitor in ranked.

 

The argument is like saying the devs should remove Nightmare level 50 operations in PvE because everyone's moved on to the new 55 content. Which if you think that's a good idea, by all means. I personally don't, and neither did the large chunk of top end PvPers across multiple servers that quit the game when the devs announced the removal of 8v8s.

 

So even if the queue would be slow, I think it would still be a logical idea to bring it back just to give PvPers an actual variety in determining skill/what to compete in. Only thing I see them planning for PvP on the horizon otherwise is Huttball 4v4, and since they've butchered arenas to the point where only certain classes can even compete with others, I don't expect that game mode to yield any fun results.

[EzioMessi]

Im really hoping that they introduce an 8v8 Ranked Huttball game mode once they release the new Huttball map.

 

Which I really though would have been released by now.......

 

Someone said the ETA for the map was April, although they didn't source it, and I don't recall reading the Devs say it somewhere.

[Raansu]

4v4 sucks ***. It's almost always uneven teams and when it is it's 4 dps vs 3 healers and 1 dps:mad:

 

That's only in regs. Ranked has matchmaking. You'd know that if you bothered to queue in it.

[Nickodemous]

I don't think there is a solution for any of the ranked scenes, 8vs8 or arena! My personal opinion is that they need to wipe the slate clean, be creative, and develop a new pvp system. One that will keep the experienced players interested and allow for new talent to develop without being excluded. I don't know what the answer is it just seems that neither ranked system worked.

 

What the heck...going to pull some stuff out of ---:

1) eliminate group queue

2) rank players via regs

3) specific ratings unlock new content - both wz's and gear

4) highest rated players will eventually unlock ranked 8 man in which they could group queue similar to the current system (solo queue, group queue, or super queue for 8 man

5) ranked gear exclusive to those who participate

6) season ends, rankings reset, and the process begins again with new wz's and gear unlocks

 

It simplistic, I know, but I am tired and about to head to bed. What a system like this creates though is progression! Something that the current pvp system lacks all together.

 

Edit- unlocked wz's would be randomly queued for like lower level stuff. Would not pop though until enough had reached the appropriate rank.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Nickodemous

[ZooMzy]

I don't think there is a solution for any of the ranked scenes, 8vs8 or arena! My personal opinion is that they need to wipe the slate clean, be creative, and develop a new pvp system. One that will keep the experienced players interested and allow for new talent to develop without being excluded. I don't know what the answer is it just seems that neither ranked system worked.

 

What the heck...going to pull some stuff out of ---:

1) eliminate group queue

2) rank players via regs

3) specific ratings unlock new content - both wz's and gear

4) highest rated players will eventually unlock ranked 8 man in which they could group queue similar to the current system (solo queue, group queue, or super queue for 8 man

5) ranked gear exclusive to those who participate

6) season ends, rankings reset, and the process begins again with new wz's and gear unlocks

 

It simplistic, I know, but I am tired and about to head to bed. What a system like this creates though is progression! Something that the current pvp system lacks all together.

 

Edit- unlocked wz's would be randomly queued for like lower level stuff. Would not pop though until enough had reached the appropriate rank.

 

Gonna hit these points, as:

 

1) Groups in regs don't need to be eliminated, as they are a good source of competition of "who to beat". Premades are only powerful if each player is a regstar that has developed team synergy with a select group of people, meaning most premades are actually very low in quality. Some of the best players come from developing strategies and fighting the uphill battle against them, as many are so dependent on team synergy, they actually are not too challenging to defeat if the pug groups consists of decently skilled individuals who will play a match to its fullest.

 

2) Since there is no system of voting to kick, lockouts for leaving, or any sort of repercussion for lacking in a WZ, I don't see this happening. There is no need to rate and have leaderboards for the "training grounds", as this is a place for players to either hone their skills in a situation where they can only depend on themselves, or play without the intensity of a ranked match.

 

3) We'll see how end season rewards go. As they have done this in the past, still not as incentivizing to get mainly casuals to play a competitive game mode.

 

4) This idea would be similar to instituting a policy of PvE content, where you have to clear a HM operation before attempting the NiM version. Which, to the elitists, sounds nice. However, access to game modes should be limited only based on sub or no sub, never on experience, skill or commitment. Being successful in those game modes already charges you that sort of requirement anyway and there's no need to set the standard as "successful".

 

5) This is already in effect, through rated gear. I see it being a very clear end season reward, where incentives to play will still be rather short as casuals will only play for so long in a system made for a competitive player.

 

6) Which is undoubtedly, the way it's going to work. Like Firebrand gear, you couldn't buy it without having the rating that it requires. Meaning those who got it before hand had the rating, and when ratings reset with them being removed on the gear, only the people who had the rating could've bought them and have the look. The only exception to this case was rated War Hero, as you could craft that set.

 

All in all, the problem is that Bioware and many believe it's all about incentivizing the community to play in a sport. You can't get that kind of commitment, as people will quit those WZs shortly after you get them in there. Why?

 

Because the PvP system is complex to the average noob, where only the top few percentile truly understand that this game is "rock, paper, scissors" and that every class has a weakness. Put that into an arena designed to emphasize that, where unless someone knows how to utilize a FOTM spec and class, they are going to get killed so fast, the match will end before they know what has happened and Bioware wonders why people have no incentive to play those matches? Casuals can't even derive enjoyment, as getting stomped within 20 seconds is a waste of time for them and the people who have the unfortunate luck to get them on their team.

 

There's a reason why this board has so many complaints, and it's rather simple why: this game's theme never meant to have "preparation emphasized 4 man death match arenas" as it's top level of PvP. Like the trailers the devs make that contradict their game, the PvP was supposed to be open world battles to showcase a war between the Republic and the Empire, the Jedi versus the Sith. Hundreds of blaster fire and lightsabers clashing across the galaxy, with war time objectives at its very core.

 

They failed to replicate that with Ilum, and they abandoned that ideal with the refusal to work on coming up with a solution to open world PvP, such as fixing the lack of capability to fight with more than 16 people. All in all, arenas truly satisfy only the loud, obnoxious bads that are competitive, too stupid to play in a game mode more complex than deathmatch.

 

So if you think this game is succeeding because of ranked arenas being the true vision of competition, then I feel sorry for you. In truth, the devs have taken the PvP scene in a direction that is further backwards than I could have imagined, and I wonder if they truly have a real plan to save their PvP scene or if they are just so backwards with their logic, they've forgotten how to make a good game in this effort to appease the simple minded complainers.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ZooMzy

[LeHovah]

I like both, but I would also want 8v8 back.

[Nickodemous]

Gonna hit these points, as:So if you think this game is succeeding because of ranked arenas being the true vision of competition, then I feel sorry for you. In truth, the devs have taken the PvP scene in a direction that is further backwards than I could have imagined, and I wonder if they truly have a real plan to save their PvP scene or if they are just so backwards with their logic, they've forgotten how to make a good game in this effort to appease the simple minded complainers.

 

I agree. Arenas were a step back and, ironically, this step backwards STILL has not appeased the complainers.

 

Although I was a bigger fan of the 8vs8 vs the current arena system, neither worked or is working. Currently, if there is anyone who thinks there is a server in which ranked thrives, you are mistaken. It is dead, broken, kaput!!! Meaning, they do not happen on any server.

 

In my previous post, i mentioned progression and claimed that there is none with the current pvp system. Is that not a legitamate claim? Although I would love to be involved in ranked solo/team venues, no one queues and, to be honest, I am not going to plan a night to queue up based on posts in server forums. Team ranked in swtor is a joke and solo is even bigger. So, my pvp experience has been limited to leveling/gearing alts, in reg wzs, accross many servers. I have seen the quality of pvp degress since the intro of the arenas and this is why I suggested that they may want to consider wiping the slate clean.

 

Without going into detail, there has to be a pvp system in place that offers an experienced vet a reason to stick around while allowing for newer, greener players, to catch up. There is tons of talent accross many different servers. Most have taken a break or have quit though. Now, wz's have become similar to arenas: death matches on a much bigger scale. I dont know what the answer is, I just know something needs to give otherwise I may be taking a break also in the near future.

[Atalantia]

Gonna hit these points, as:

 

1) Groups in regs don't need to be eliminated, as they are a good source of competition of "who to beat". Premades are only powerful if each player is a regstar that has developed team synergy with a select group of people, meaning most premades are actually very low in quality. Some of the best players come from developing strategies and fighting the uphill battle against them, as many are so dependent on team synergy, they actually are not too challenging to defeat if the pug groups consists of decently skilled individuals who will play a match to its fullest.

 

2) Since there is no system of voting to kick, lockouts for leaving, or any sort of repercussion for lacking in a WZ, I don't see this happening. There is no need to rate and have leaderboards for the "training grounds", as this is a place for players to either hone their skills in a situation where they can only depend on themselves, or play without the intensity of a ranked match.

 

3) We'll see how end season rewards go. As they have done this in the past, still not as incentivizing to get mainly casuals to play a competitive game mode.

 

4) This idea would be similar to instituting a policy of PvE content, where you have to clear a HM operation before attempting the NiM version. Which, to the elitists, sounds nice. However, access to game modes should be limited only based on sub or no sub, never on experience, skill or commitment. Being successful in those game modes already charges you that sort of requirement anyway and there's no need to set the standard as "successful".

 

5) This is already in effect, through rated gear. I see it being a very clear end season reward, where incentives to play will still be rather short as casuals will only play for so long in a system made for a competitive player.

 

6) Which is undoubtedly, the way it's going to work. Like Firebrand gear, you couldn't buy it without having the rating that it requires. Meaning those who got it before hand had the rating, and when ratings reset with them being removed on the gear, only the people who had the rating could've bought them and have the look. The only exception to this case was rated War Hero, as you could craft that set.

 

All in all, the problem is that Bioware and many believe it's all about incentivizing the community to play in a sport. You can't get that kind of commitment, as people will quit those WZs shortly after you get them in there. Why?

 

Because the PvP system is complex to the average noob, where only the top few percentile truly understand that this game is "rock, paper, scissors" and that every class has a weakness. Put that into an arena designed to emphasize that, where unless someone knows how to utilize a FOTM spec and class, they are going to get killed so fast, the match will end before they know what has happened and Bioware wonders why people have no incentive to play those matches? Casuals can't even derive enjoyment, as getting stomped within 20 seconds is a waste of time for them and the people who have the unfortunate luck to get them on their team.

 

There's a reason why this board has so many complaints, and it's rather simple why: this game's theme never meant to have "preparation emphasized 4 man death match arenas" as it's top level of PvP. Like the trailers the devs make that contradict their game, the PvP was supposed to be open world battles to showcase a war between the Republic and the Empire, the Jedi versus the Sith. Hundreds of blaster fire and lightsabers clashing across the galaxy, with war time objectives at its very core.

 

They failed to replicate that with Ilum, and they abandoned that ideal with the refusal to work on coming up with a solution to open world PvP, such as fixing the lack of capability to fight with more than 16 people. All in all, arenas truly satisfy only the loud, obnoxious bads that are competitive, too stupid to play in a game mode more complex than deathmatch.

 

So if you think this game is succeeding because of ranked arenas being the true vision of competition, then I feel sorry for you. In truth, the devs have taken the PvP scene in a direction that is further backwards than I could have imagined, and I wonder if they truly have a real plan to save their PvP scene or if they are just so backwards with their logic, they've forgotten how to make a good game in this effort to appease the simple minded complainers.

 

I can relate to this

 

After trying once to fix Ilum and making things worse they just gave up the ghost and invented deathmatch arena's. They could have at least made the map's a little more strategic, but nope 'DEATHMATCH 2000" and if you dont know what this google it

[vennian]

Getting ranked back and they will still be dead on most servers

[Aetideus]

Getting ranked back and they will still be dead on most servers

 

Not more dead than Arenas. If BW decide to be dedicated to 8x8 ranked and HB league maybe, guilds may join certain servers again.