Balance needs to happen in GSF

[Verain]

I'm curious- what do you expect them to do about one side stomping another?

[steyates]

It's not about one side stomping the other, it's the fact that the Imperials had no chance and it wasn't particularly fun even for the Stompers. There was no challenge in either match, it didn't help me get better at the game and I doubt it helped any of the Imperials learn how to play. I'd have rather played Republic vs Republic (the 2nd match was 12v12) and have a fun, enjoyable, close game.

[HoloGrinder]

I'm curious- what do you expect them to do about one side stomping another?

 

I am so glad you asked. These are all the changes I would like to see. Most of which will balance the game some of which would just make it better. This is an ever evolving list as I rethink things a lot.

 

First they can create separate queue's. You might think we don't have the population for it but I think that we do and most of them are turned off on GSF and this will bring them back.

 

The queue's would be...

 

1) Has not mastered a ship.

 

2) Pug

 

3) Grouped play

 

Then they can reduce the accuracy of all drones to less than that of an average pilot to reduce the effectiveness of no skill satellite drone guarding. And then can make mines and drones that are not within 1000m of the bomber disappear to encourage them to actually be at there keyboard when they get free kills.

 

They can put a limit of 3 GS's per team that can launch in a match (first come first serve)

 

They can up the damage on all missiles because all pilots have a means of dodging fired missiles and because the lock on timer is long and you can't maneuver or evade while using them.

 

They can help strike fighters out by giving them the option to link there primary weapons to fire them together both draining the energy pool as well.

 

They can unnerf scouts evasion because they will have fixed the SF's

 

Lastly they can get rid of the same faction "War Game" mode matches to force the factions to balance out in GSF population wise.

 

In game VOIP is also a nice idea also.

Edited February 5, 2014 by HoloGrinder

[mattycutts]

I am so glad you asked. These are all the changes I would like to see. Most of which will balance the game some of which would just make it better. This is an ever evolving list as I rethink things a lot.

 

First they can create separate queue's. You might think we don't have the population for it but I think that we do and most of them are turned off on GSF and this will bring them back.

 

The queue's would be...

 

1) Has not mastered a ship.

 

2) Pug

 

3) Grouped play

 

Then they can reduce the accuracy of all drones to less than that of an average pilot to reduce the effectiveness of no skill satellite drone guarding. And then can make mines and drones that are not within 1000m of the bomber disappear to encourage them to actually be at there keyboard when they get free kills.

 

They can put a limit of 3 GS's per team that can launch in a match (first come first serve)

 

They can up the damage on all missiles because all pilots have a means of dodging fired missiles and because the lock on timer is long and you can't maneuver or evade while using them.

 

They can help strike fighters out by giving them the option to link there primary weapons to fire them together both draining the energy pool as well.

 

They can unnerf scouts evasion because they will have fixed the SF's

 

Lastly they can get rid of the same faction "War Game" mode matches to force the factions to balance out in GSF population wise.

 

In game VOIP is also a nice idea also.

 

You realise if they broke it into 3 separate queues would kill GSF. How long u reckon queue times would be?

 

look at ground pvp, ranked queue most of the time its dead on any server.

 

as for your previous reply to my last post, how the hell can u say im one of them exploiting/being on to a good thing, I HAVE A CHAR WITH 3 SHIPS...... ZERO MODS, I don't need req's for that char and have zero problem putting in a good performance for any pug team.

 

the only things I see GSF need are:

 

More maps

More game modes

A bit of love for the fighter class

and no stealth ships.

 

I don't need to recommend ideas to balance GSF coz I don't see any balance issues just lack of skill and patience in most new comers to GSF.

[Verain]

Ok, that idea is awful.

 

Putting queues like that would destroy the ability of anyone who actually PLAYS to get a game. You would see aces forming premades with newer ships, and I can assure you, if they were guaranteed to never face higher rated people, they simply wouldn't. It would make upgrading a ship completely gone from the game, which appears to be what you are asking for.

 

The thing is, the "gear grind" here is very much less onerous than in most MMOs. It's not particularly short, but neither are the differences as shocking.

 

If this change was in effect on bastion, and I tried to pug, here's what would happen: we would sit in queue all night. We already try to line up groups of Rep aces versus Imp aces by simulqueuing versus them in voice chat, but, no surprise, there's usually not enough people on both sides for this. Under your scheme we couldn't play. And we are basically the only ones playing. So in the interest of protecting the fragile egos of terrible players and players who rarely log on, we couldn't even get games. It should be OBVIOUS how awful an idea this is.

 

The matchmaking, whatever it is is, would probably work ok if there were enough people. Cross server play would likely do it, ensuring that we don't get games with four total nubbies on our side or whatever.

 

Then they can reduce the accuracy of all drones to less than that of an average pilot to reduce the effectiveness of no skill satellite drone guarding.

 

I'm not convinced drones are that broken yet, especially given the drone-specific counters that they have. They MIGHT need to dial the accuracy down on them- maybe, but it wouldn't be to some "average" amount.

 

 

The game isn't going to be balanced for really below average people- that's impossible.

 

They can unnerf scouts evasion

 

Dude, that was the best nerf ever. Scouts were entirely wild to hit before. Kicking this crutch out has enabled strikes to play again.

 

They can help strike fighters out by giving them the option to link there primary weapons to fire together both draining the energy pool as well.

 

This only effects the lesser strike, who I think needs buffs. I think this particular buff is way too good, though, as it would make the Starguard/Enforcer/Rycer/Gladiator like 80% more damaging than the next closest thing. Those ships need a bit of help, but nowhere near this crap. I think if they each had an independent energy pool, that would be more than enough.

 

 

ALSO- many of your posts involve complaing about premades or getting farmed by Reps. Making scouts and strikes too good, probably overnerfing bombers... these don't even help. You other ideas at least help you in theory- if I can't get a game and nubbies can, then obviously I'll quit and so will all us big mean premades, allowing the game to be the vacant desert you hope it to be. But why be like "the game balance needs you to be able to strike with quad+heavy at the same time!" Why on earth?

 

In game VOIP isn't a bad idea, though I gotta say- I've played enough games to say, it won't be used. This was a common complaint early in WoW, is that people would premade up and stomp around. So Blizzard added in game voice, usable in raids, and battlegrounds. I don't know if you ever played WoW, or when you stopped, but this happened early in Burning Crusade. It's been in the game all this time, and I've never met a single player that uses it, no lie. Everyone continues to use vent, with mumble hipsters, teamspeak dweebs, and of course the worst program on the internet, Skype- and the players that can't be arsed to download those things and run them are probably not going to be worth talking with anyway.

[HoloGrinder]

If you think my ideas are awful please feel free to put in ideas of your own. I am pushing for a resolution here and I don't care who's idea fixes it as long as it gets fixed sooner than later. If you say something like... "There is no problem stop telling people that we are farming these kids... errrr... ummmmmm... I mean sky looks blue from here every thing is dandy. " The entire player base of GSF will know that you are a full of crap liar, and they will know why because only the problem it's self would try and spin those lies. Get mad at me. Call me names. Troll my threads. I love it because it tells me that what I am doing is working and you know it. As more and more players speak out against the exploitation and the griefing which they are doing, and as more and more players have had enough and decide to fight back as they are doing, the credibility of the offenders and there "pay no attention to the premade behind the curtain" attitude is what they will be known and disliked for by the community. We will fix this problem and If your game is to ruin new players games and make them quit GSF then get ready because the I am going to ruin your game by speaking out against it until every one has a chance to enjoy GSF.

[Zoom_VI]

There is no "we" in Hologrinder. For every post I see bashing premades I see three denouncing the QQ.

 

Drop the "silent majority" attitude, it doesn't work.

[Verain]

After having read more of his posts- including no less than four direct insults as name calling, one at me- I have decided to only take him seriously as a blight upon the forums. Pretty much every idea of his would 100% destroy the game- he wants players like me to never be able to get a match (there have never been 8 imp versus 8 pubs of aces/pilots, much less every time I press queue), he wants groups to not work, he wants anyone with a mastered ship to suffer, he wants to sell fleet req for dollars so as to ensure that the game is hated by all.

 

His whole game is to wreck the game while claiming to speak for some super angry fictional group that can't be arsed to play games or talk to people or read strats or do well or not be bad. In short, he is entitled, cries constantly, and does nothing but insult anyone who disagrees with him. His advice in the "advice to new pilots" thread was for pubs to not play because his precious little heiny is red from the spankings.

 

His is kind of an analogue of everything that is wrong with the internet, right down to the words "holo" (false, appearance of a gamer with no substance), "grinder" (repetitive boring actions that are loathed), and the faceless avatar, representative of someone who has ten hours to type bad ideas into the forums and insult the pilots actually playing this game but not ten seconds to pick a cool picture, nor ten minutes to improve himself.

 

 

Worst.

 

Poster.

 

 

Ever.

[Armonddd]

After having read more of his posts

 

Why would you do that? Why would you ever do that?

[HoloGrinder]

The noob farming game exploiters are pretty upset this must be getting some attention. Keep telling it like it is guys.

[reclipsed]

Why do people not understand that matchmaking isnt switched on yet? Until it goes live next month, there is no point, as if it was switched on now, hardly anyone would get a queue pop.

 

welp. Almost 2 days after the switch was flipped I still see the same 5-7 regulars against the new players

[mattycutts]

The noob farming game exploiters are pretty upset this must be getting some attention. Keep telling it like it is guys.

 

i dont see u actually answer my previous statement,

 

How am i exploiting with a char that has no extra ships, no mods of any kind?

 

yet i still 99% finish in top 3 of every game.

 

doubt my ability come start on red eclipse youll see my name all the time as it says i destroyed you, most of my chars that are known i am focused alot in matches from start to finish by those that know me / recognise me.

 

im not hard to find and youll know when u found me hologrinder as i place a rocket, balster shot up ya butt on my unmodified ship.

 

i think the solution you really need to see in GSF is a skiled player debuff, if someone good there damage output and speed, and turn rate decreased by say 90% to give less skilled players a chance, would that be better for you? im not calling u names, im not offering solutions to your problems coz i dont see problems, all i see is skilled and none skilled players, what server you on? ill create a char special for your server and we spend some time together

[okiobe]

The players you are name calling and insulting are the players who have invested the most into GSF. They are the ones who spent hours playing the game. They are the ones who are most concerned about the competitive aspects of ships, abilities, and strats. Look at any hobby or job and you will see that the people who care most are those who have invested the most time (i.e NOT the casuals).

 

I play occasionally and I do very well. If you saw just my stats at the end on the game you would call me a exploiter too but I don't fit most of the cirteria you have. I don't group up into premades, I don't play gunships or even own a bomber, I don't use VOIP for GSF, and I don't spawn camp 'noobs' as you say. You can look at some of my videos if you want to see how I play.

 

In regards to your suggestions, a while back I had the opportunity in the CS dept at my university to hear from a lead producer for Starcraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm at Blizzard. He made an interesting comment about balance. There is a line the devs have to walk between balance and uniqueness. If you want perfect balance then you have to give up the differences and uniqueness of each race/class. If you want every race/class to be unique then you lose balance. Since there is uniqueness between ships and even differences in components for the same ship there will never be perfect balance. And honestly perfect balance would make the game generic and boring.

 

Just because the ship you choose to fly and the style you like to play isn't good against other ships and different play styles doesn't mean it's imbalanced. Each ship has its aces who perform well. This means it's not the ships but the skill difference from team to team. You are proposing changes to the game mechanics which if implemented won't really fix the problems you complain about.

 

Also from listening to people in my guild (most don't really play GSF), they just get on for the daily and some extra XP. They really don't care about the nuances of each ship and which ships are OP.

 

EDIT: I thought I would add this concerning attacking other posters

you may not engage in...“Trolling,” which we define as posts or threads that knowingly lead to overly strong, negative, and emotional responses for mere shock value, is not allowed on the Service. Accounts created with the sole intent to “troll” will be immediately and permanently suspended. Constant personal attacks are also considered trolling. (See also “Forum Guidelines” below.) http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

Edited February 6, 2014 by okiobe
added tos comment

[PavSalco]

Today I lost 1 to 50 in DM. Thank you for ruining my experience with GSF. This would have never happened in a regular PVP, even though there are premades you still have a chance not to be annihilated. I enjoy my fighter and scout but if no one in my team has either bomber or gunship, then we're doomed. The game forces us to use bomber or gunship. It's like forcing you to drop your actual character and start a new one. To be clear, I'm not against variety, but that variety cannot be imposed as a necessary factor to win the game.

 

I've never complained about GSF so far. My beginnings where rough to the point where I didn't want to come back to GSF, but I resisted. I was getting better and better, which was a natural progress. Now I consider myself as an average player whose KDR is decent, but if only I meet the team of bomber and gunship, then it's gg.

 

So enjoy your game pros. Playing competitively with the same people over and over again is inevitable. The rest will just join to hold W and to get additional exp.

[-Streven-]

Hologrinder deaths=OMG somebody balance the game!

 

Truth is the ships and gametypes are all very balanced. The only disparities are in skill level. The only good remedy for fixing that right now is to play more!

[Verain]

The noob farming game exploiters are pretty upset this must be getting some attention. Keep telling it like it is guys.

 

Your ideas are on the level of game destroying. Your latest idea was to sell fleet req because obviously it's impossible to get it in game somehow, with the wink wink that this would cause everyone to quit because fleet req is gear, and that would be pay to win in the wildest way possible.

 

So no, people calling you out definitely doesn't mean you have merit. Quite the opposite in fact.

[Armonddd]

Truth is the ships and gametypes are all very balanced. The only disparities are in skill level. The only good remedy for fixing that right now is to play more!

 

I disagree, to a point.

 

Scouts hold many advantages over strike fighters, not least of which is maneuverability. Strike fighters also lack the versatility they are advertised to have. Both ships also have access to cluster missiles, which are currently the best missile/torpedo weapon in the game due to a bug with double volley that makes preventing their damage nearly impossible once launched.

 

Gunships have access to the three best weapons in the game and are not significantly disadvantaged to compensate. In fact, due to the design of railguns and the competitive damage output from burst lasers and rocket pods, it is practically impossible to properly balance gunships currently; they will either be too strong or too weak.

 

Bombers provide a large amount of team benefit regardless of the pilot's skill. The dronecarrier in particular is guilty of this due to the flawless AI that controls the drones, among other nonexistent limitations (turning rates, firing arcs, tracking penalties, etc). Seeker mines also appear buggy; it is seemingly impossible to prevent a seeker mine from dealing damage to its target once it begins moving, even if it is destroyed before it reaches its target.

 

The presence of a single bomber or gunship means significantly more than the presence of a second bomber or gunship. The ability to disable and destroy opponents from enormous range completely changes the game; a team fighting one gunship must play very differently than if it were facing no gunships. Likewise, the bomber's team support and massive defensive fortifications completely change the way a match is played. Both of these require significant adaptations from the opposing team -- adaptations the team may not be able to provide due to the gating of ships and upgrades.

 

However, at the high end, player skill and preparation are generally the determinants of both small-scale duel and large-scale battle. It is entirely possible for an exceptionally skilled player in a well-built ship to score dozens of kills with little damage taken.

[HoloGrinder]

Your ideas are on the level of game destroying. Your latest idea was to sell fleet req because obviously it's impossible to get it in game somehow, with the wink wink that this would cause everyone to quit because fleet req is gear, and that would be pay to win in the wildest way possible.

 

So no, people calling you out definitely doesn't mean you have merit. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Game destroying is the imbalance the way it is right now. Anything that would right it would be better. That said Throw some good ideas of your own if mine are so bad because your tactic of disagreeing with what every one including you clearly sees (A factional imbalance that is preventing a majority of Swtor players from joining in GSF) just makes it seem like you are one of the exploiters that wishes to silence any one that threatens to mess up the fun you are having running new pilots off. The funny thing about denying something that is obvious to everyone is that you lose credibility in the eyes of everyone as well because they see your lie and you will become known for it. I will stop unfair exploitation of new pilots and save GSF if I can because it is wrong and it will kill GSF. Good luck in your attempt to stop me It will be long and painful and it will end in the inevitable.

[Lyet]

After having read more of his posts- including no less than four direct insults as name calling, one at me- I have decided to only take him seriously as a blight upon the forums. Pretty much every idea of his would 100% destroy the game- he wants players like me to never be able to get a match (there have never been 8 imp versus 8 pubs of aces/pilots, much less every time I press queue), he wants groups to not work, he wants anyone with a mastered ship to suffer, he wants to sell fleet req for dollars so as to ensure that the game is hated by all.

 

His whole game is to wreck the game while claiming to speak for some super angry fictional group that can't be arsed to play games or talk to people or read strats or do well or not be bad. In short, he is entitled, cries constantly, and does nothing but insult anyone who disagrees with him. His advice in the "advice to new pilots" thread was for pubs to not play because his precious little heiny is red from the spankings.

 

His is kind of an analogue of everything that is wrong with the internet, right down to the words "holo" (false, appearance of a gamer with no substance), "grinder" (repetitive boring actions that are loathed), and the faceless avatar, representative of someone who has ten hours to type bad ideas into the forums and insult the pilots actually playing this game but not ten seconds to pick a cool picture, nor ten minutes to improve himself.

 

 

Worst.

 

Poster.

 

 

Ever.

 

The noob farming game exploiters are pretty upset this must be getting some attention. Keep telling it like it is guys.

 

He just did.

 

Two posts above yours.

[Ansultares]

It's a really awful experience. The game mode is already nauseating; the massive discrepancy between veterans and newcomers only reinforces the urge to vomit.

 

As for "have patience," I'd rather not even play this again for a month if it meant that at the end of the month I'd have enough free points to fully kit out a single ship.

 

After the disappointment for me that is the bolster buff in warzones, making it pointless to even bother gearing up beyond garbage greens, I'm really surprised they released GSF in this state.

 

The players you are name calling and insulting are the players who have invested the most into GSF. They are the ones who spent hours playing the game. They are the ones who are most concerned about the competitive aspects of ships, abilities, and strats.

That's the problem. The benefit for doing so is tremendous. Either reduces the differences between geared and ungeared ships (a bad idea), or put in a matchmaker and split the queues (good idea) based on lifetime fleet provisions.

 

The only disparities are in skill level. The only good remedy for fixing that right now is to play more!

More like disparities in gear, which has the same solution. Edited February 7, 2014 by Ansultares

[AMightyKnight]

Just look at this.

http://i.imgur.com/g3wqlmo.jpg

Deathmatch Reps against Imps 50-1 since one of us managed to fly his ship into somethinng.

 

Something needs to happen and soon. Slaughtering the enemies with shiptype you normally dont touch is no fun at all. And those poor guys from the other side - most of them will be gone within day and never touch GSF again.

Edited February 7, 2014 by AMightyKnight

[okiobe]

That's the problem. The benefit for doing so is tremendous. Either reduces the differences between geared and ungeared ships (a bad idea), or put in a matchmaker and split the queues (good idea) based on lifetime fleet provisions.

 

Changes to the ships would not make a difference in the current imbalance. Just look at 2.6 many people thought shield piercing changes would balance out gunships but I have still seen people complain about them. Good players will be good regardless of the ship they have.

 

I have never seen a post where someone has said they are opposed to a working matchmaking system. The only way I see a separate queue working is it was separated by group and solo. The group would not really be a queue but a waiting room where you could see all the other groups and extend challenges to them and choose who you play. I've seen many post in both the GSF and PVP forums asking for a way to set up matches between specific groups or guilds. That allows the community to organize and manage their own competitions. As it is right now random high level group pvp is not working in the ground game and it wouldn't work in GSF. The low population pool and randomness make for an unpredictable experience.

[Suzina]

It's true Starfighter matches are usually won by the Republic, but I think this is something about the "starfighter ace fantasy" fitting more to x-wing pilots than tie-pilots. So it may be just an unavoidable effect of the Star Wars movies.

 

We had our time in Warzones. For the Empire.

[HoloGrinder]

It's true Starfighter matches are usually won by the Republic, but I think this is something about the "starfighter ace fantasy" fitting more to x-wing pilots than tie-pilots. So it may be just an unavoidable effect of the Star Wars movies.

 

We had our time in Warzones. For the Empire.

 

It was balanced in SWG and other games that dealt specifically with Starwars space combat.

[Sangrar]

It was balanced in SWG and other games that dealt specifically with Starwars space combat.

 

you can't exactly compare 2 different games like they are the same

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sangrar