DarkSaberMaster Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 PTS is up: 2.5 http://i.imgur.com/MiBrRyz.jpg 2.6 http://i.imgur.com/cSFRH4M.jpg 38% aka. 62% reduced damage. Damage reduced from 10.282 to 3.912 Oh. My. God. That is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Disclaimer: I'm not good at parsing, but here's two before and after. Ca. 5% lower DPS if you keep using OS single target on CD. 2.5 3288 - http://www.torparse.com/a/547882/5/0/Damage+Dealt 3291 - http://www.torparse.com/a/547882/2/0/Damage+Dealt 2.6 3158 - http://www.torparse.com/a/547863/1/0/Damage+Dealt 3133 - http://www.torparse.com/a/547863/2/0/Damage+Dealt Energy management was slightly easier, 3sec longer Corrosive dart felt kinda nice.. but I'm not good on keeping it up on the dummy. These are close enough parses with 78 mods, 4pc PvE bonus and 72 main hand barrel. See AMR in signature for details on my char. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) It should still be used in MM single target rotation though right? or should we ignore it altogether.. with SV its less than 1 GCD to cast, but it looks like it deals less damage than Snipe now. i remember during the Sniper QA, someone saying that they'd have to make snipe more favorable to cast in order to remove os from the rotation. guess he was right ! Edited January 10, 2014 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Since OS ignores armor it seems to deals slightly more damage than Snipe per cast, then again Snipe crits slightly more. If I'm about to take a guess, it's worth it just because it's energy neutral..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Since OS ignores armor it seems to deals slightly more damage than Snipe per cast, then again Snipe crits slightly more. If I'm about to take a guess, it's worth it just because it's energy neutral..? ah yeah you're right. hmm it shouldn't be too much of a prob keeping it up as MM anyway. but for Hybrid though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyanrute Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 OS is three ticks and three ticks of it do more damage than a single (non-lazed) snipe does. And the new OS costs less than a snipe and has the same cast time. Without any testing done my wild guess is it stays in. Would have to test it though just how it fits in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinwitt Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 If our biggest tech attack is out, does that mean gearing with half aim is finally legit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 PTS is up: 2.5 http://i.imgur.com/MiBrRyz.jpg 2.6 http://i.imgur.com/cSFRH4M.jpg 38% aka. 62% reduced damage. Damage reduced from 10.282 to 3.912 3000damage. Silly Orbital Warship Support! Bioware, pls, undo this change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperZizu Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Time to roll a merc... this is just ridiculous -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmholtzz Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Cancelled my subscription. I dont want to play a game where the devs are so stupid they cant even figure out how to take an aoe out of single target rotation without absolutely destroying it. HELLO people without brains! multiplicative damage... the damage dealt by OS gets multiplied by the number of enemies caught in the blast. You cast it on one you get poor (4k) damage. Catch 3 in it and you get 12K. If you catch 5 adds in one OS you get 20K damage on each of the adds. But they must be too stupid to come up with a simple idea like that or too incompetent to implement it. Edited January 10, 2014 by Helmholtzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Cancelled my subscription. I dont want to play a game where the devs are so stupid they cant even figure out how to take an aoe out of single target rotation without absolutely destroying it. HELLO people without brains! multiplicative damage... the damage dealt by OS gets multiplied by the number of enemies caught in the blast. You cast it on one you get poor (4k) damage. Catch 3 in it and you get 12K. If you catch 5 adds in one OS you get 20K damage on each of the adds. But they must be too stupid to come up with a simple idea like that or too incompetent to implement it. I don't think it's destroyed. People are still testing it. Snipers are the only class who have their AoE cooldown ability in their single target rotaation and its not what BW wanted in the first place. If anything, this will make applying Corrosive Dart a lot easier to use now and lasts longer too. I like the change they did to Corrosive Dart.. definitely looking forward to testing that one out specifically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmholtzz Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I don't think it's destroyed. People are still testing it. Snipers are the only class who have their AoE cooldown ability in their single target rotaation and its not what BW wanted in the first place. If anything, this will make applying Corrosive Dart a lot easier to use now and lasts longer too. I like the change they did to Corrosive Dart.. definitely looking forward to testing that one out specifically Rage maras have smash in their rotation, gunnery commandos have mortar volley in their rotation. I dont mind losing OS from my rotation, I dont like the way they did it. What will you do to deal with the adds in Titan 6? That Orbital tissue strike will do nothing to them. You realize that OS now does less damage than a sticky grenade right? But anyway there will always be people playing this game. But I just dont want to waste my time in an environment where stupid people are in charge Edited January 10, 2014 by Helmholtzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmholtzz Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 let me clarify myself, a tissue dropped from orbit will hit much harder than the orbital strike of a sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCandyMan Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) In my initial testing as a MM sniper ( 36/3/7 with 1 point in CM and 1 in LI) I have found no DPS difference between using OS on cooldown versus not using it at all, in fact it seemed like using OS on cooldown was actually a DPS loss. Gonna be trying with 2 points in LI to see how it messes with the rotation. MM Snipers will be the new concealment Operatives:( Edited January 10, 2014 by TheRealCandyMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) paowee, you are looking at it from a pve perspective which is cool but from a pvp perspective the damage it did acted as a deterrent, if you got caught in it you got hit hard. I can't find the time to do a detailed post tonight but suffice to say as an engineering sniper I find it hard under what circumstances is it worth me even using it anymore. Yes there are a few but they are very specific situations that might never arise in a warzone. People will still use it to interrupt at voidstar for example but I can do that far more effectively with plasma probe. I can be persuaded that the damage it dealt was too much and has been ever since launch but the current setup is far too big a nerf. The only thing that has made me think no it hasn't been too much is down to changes to other aoe skills such as the infamous smash. I find this bit specifically from Eric's answers to our top 3 questions very very interesting considering this particular change. We are not completely satisfied with how Engineering currently plays in general. When compared to Lethality or Marksmanship, Engineering feels rather clunky. The strength of Engineering in PvE is definitely AoE damage, while the weaknesses are mostly quality of life issues like energy management, Interrogation Probe’s single target limit, Plasma Probe’s cooldown, and lack of a well-flowing rotation – thanks to the extremely long cooldowns on Explosive Probe and Orbital Strike, along with the unfriendly requirement of using EMP Discharge with Adrenaline Probe to maximize sustained damage. Using scatter bombs for wall banging will get nerfed, it's only a matter of time (something I'm in favour of, terrible way of playing the class). When that happens and if this change stays as it is a case can be made for the engineering tree to be broken compared to the other trees. Edited January 10, 2014 by BaineOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windogie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It's still the best area/node denial skill in the game. Also, it's testing. They can always dial it back up a little. There's knee-jerk whining, and there's this guy. Did you even read the rest of the changes? The ones EricMusco posted? Plasma probe is the best not orbital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlenux Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 In my initial testing as a MM sniper ( 36/3/7 with 1 point in CM and 1 in LI) I have found no DPS difference between using OS on cooldown versus not using it at all, in fact it seemed like using OS on cooldown was actually a DPS loss. Gonna be trying with 2 points in LI to see how it messes with the rotation. MM Snipers will be the new concealment Operatives:( mmhm same, it feels like regardless of the 1 GCD, snipe is still more useful lol, also there is really few room to starve energy to use adrenaline probe for burst, it is awkward as well being so confy with the energy at all points without mister OS lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windogie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Before we get out pitchforks out....let's try playing it..... I have a feeling this will be a good energy regen ability and remove a lot of unwanted Rifle Shots for both Sniper/Operatives.... The REAL problem I think comes with the feeling of it. It's an EPIC ability. You're calling down thunder from space. It shouldn't feel trivial and small. If you're reading this Musco, gj on Concealment, but you still REALLY NEED to look at the redesign on 4 set pve. +5 energy is utterly useless. Only reason this pisses me off is it hits eng really hard in pvp it almost forced us to exploit to be taken sesly as a dps cause without it most of our dps is just fluff. Also the energy it gives means nothing to eng, eng never has energy problems. Freakin bioware even said they wanted to not break eng then boom they pull this **** most likely cause they were to lazy to find another way to break the hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlenux Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Cancelled my subscription. I dont want to play a game where the devs are so stupid they cant even figure out how to take an aoe out of single target rotation without absolutely destroying it. HELLO people without brains! multiplicative damage... the damage dealt by OS gets multiplied by the number of enemies caught in the blast. You cast it on one you get poor (4k) damage. Catch 3 in it and you get 12K. If you catch 5 adds in one OS you get 20K damage on each of the adds. But they must be too stupid to come up with a simple idea like that or too incompetent to implement it. so let me see if i understand this, one of the only two class that have been the best dps since release, never gotten a single huge nerf, beside after 2.0 having pretty much 2-3 viable options of dps > almost all other classes, Get a nerf on an ability that honestly didnt need to, but the problem and why it got nerfed is that people got jealous, because this doesnt affect pvp at all, i mean if u get caught in an orbital you are an idiot lol, however ANY raid leader or raid group wanted to have 2-3 orbitals in their team for massive AoE and burst dmg, but all the other classes were so jealous they had to ask for a nerf and complain, because people is more focused on, "what class beat what class" and who beats who in the dps leaderboard, instead of who / what is the best for your raid group, i will love to see how boss fights timers will increase 10-15 seconds with this nerf from initial burst, aoE burst and even more important that people have not noticed, OPERATIVE HEALER ORBITAL, pretty much made a 10k great dmg ability into a Waste of a GCD for healer dps, people should stop asking for pointless nerf on abilities that are not game breaking in pvp, just because "i am a mara and i dont have orbital" because now you will see the consequences in your raid group. first it was people complaining about BT... now its OS, both nerfed, opertaive dps / healer dps nerfed... most likely sniper dps nerfed at least on burst and probably in %, only reason marauder anni dps is so high on rankings is because they are exploiting the relic self heals, and these are the 3 higher classes that will do like 3700-3800 at most with new changes, while the rest are under 3600... basically it comes down to who has more / better pyro merc which are the new Pyro PT pre 2.0 first it was sniper / mara / PT... after 2.0 was sniper / mara / Op all close to each other... now its Pyro merc., and the rest far behind, because once they fix relics, there goes hybrid sniper dps and anni marauder, MM sniper dmg got reduced, operative dps got reduced and messed up the rotation, operative healers dps will have 30k less dmg per fight now... so most likely nim fights will be if you get stuck in dps bring a pyro merc :S. so bottom line, for pve the problem is not nerfing useful stuff of good classes, because we all want them in our raids, they need to buff the weak points of underperfoming classes and thats it, leave the rest as it is and focus on changes for pvp where people really have complaints, reducing Smash dmg from rage spec by 62% like this, and increasing other fillers by 10-20%, making it higher viable dps without overpowered AoE burst, not taking our orbital destroying rotations and pve dmg without having a single improvement on pvp, this OS nerf is bad, in every aspect of the game that you see it for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinwitt Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Snipers are the only class who have their AoE cooldown ability in their single target rotaation and its not what BW wanted in the first place. I have to disagree with this. We have multiple talents either dedicated to or supportive of making Orbital Strike part of our rotation. The long cast time is reduced to something that could work as part of a filler, the cooldown is reduced to line up with out other rotational cooldown, and that other rotational cooldown provides so much energy that we need a large dump to minimize energy capping. To say that they didn't intend it to be rotational is to ignore all the effort they went to in making it rotational. At some point someone decided it wasn't a good idea to have it rotational, but that doesn't mean it wasn't intended as such since at least 2.0 (or even earlier, when they finally settled on what our capstone should be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenphon Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 so let me see if i understand this, one of the only two class that have been the best dps since release, never gotten a single huge nerf, beside after 2.0 having pretty much 2-3 viable options of dps > almost all other classes, Get a nerf on an ability that honestly didnt need to, but the problem and why it got nerfed is that people got jealous, because this doesnt affect pvp at all, i mean if u get caught in an orbital you are an idiot lol, however ANY raid leader or raid group wanted to have 2-3 orbitals in their team for massive AoE and burst dmg, but all the other classes were so jealous they had to ask for a nerf and complain, because people is more focused on, "what class beat what class" and who beats who in the dps leaderboard, instead of who / what is the best for your raid group, i will love to see how boss fights timers will increase 10-15 seconds with this nerf from initial burst, aoE burst and even more important that people have not noticed, OPERATIVE HEALER ORBITAL, pretty much made a 10k great dmg ability into a Waste of a GCD for healer dps, people should stop asking for pointless nerf on abilities that are not game breaking in pvp, just because "i am a mara and i dont have orbital" because now you will see the consequences in your raid group. First off, I think the nerf is too high, but in no way did OS not deserve a nerf. It is by far the most OP ability in the game in its present state, outputting insane burst dps on both single target and for aoe-ing down adds. There's a reason snipers are as welcomed in raid groups as they are, OS being one of the major factors. Now, it'll be interesting to see whether BW choose to listen to its community and find a middle-way here or go through with it, but first of all people need to thoroughly test the change and new rotations before they decide to bring out the pitchforks straight off the bat. If anything, excessive testing on the PTS and getting data to support the voices that see too big (and unwarranted) dps loss incoming should be the number one priority. Only that way can changes be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCandyMan Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 First off, I think the nerf is too high, but in no way did OS not deserve a nerf. It is by far the most OP ability in the game in its present state, outputting insane burst dps on both single target and for aoe-ing down adds. There's a reason snipers are as welcomed in raid groups as they are, OS being one of the major factors. Now, it'll be interesting to see whether BW choose to listen to its community and find a middle-way here or go through with it, but first of all people need to thoroughly test the change and new rotations before they decide to bring out the pitchforks straight off the bat. If anything, excessive testing on the PTS and getting data to support the voices that see too big (and unwarranted) dps loss incoming should be the number one priority. Only that way can changes be made. Not even close to Scatter Bombs, especially since people macro it so they roll in place 100% of the time so every bomb hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enexemander Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah, at those numbers... if that goes through it sounds like it's just time for me to take another extended break from the game. You can't expect to nerf the most iconic ability of a class by 50% or more and expect people to just deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerilas Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 This is too much.... Byebye chance to get higher rating in solo ranked now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Who in their right mind would think that nerfing any ability by 62% is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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