If new Class Story is so costly, why can't they just sell it in the cartel market?

[hadoken]

The problem with this idea is that some professions are simply more popular than others. In turn, certain professions story content would makes lots of money, while others wouldnt. In turn, Bioware would "follow the money" and make lots of content for the popular professions, and only a little for the not so popular ones. So the end results of such an idea would be the most popular professions having lots of content packs, while the not so popular professions would only have a few.

 

I would divvy up the pricing by chapter instead of by class, to counter this. So each purchase unlocks a chapter of class stories for all the classes, with multiple chapters (shorter than the original 3, of course) being offered for sale.

 

Not to mention certain class stories are more popular than others not because of how the classes play, but how the stories are written. It is impossible to say what the quality/enjoyment of future class stories would be. Especially considering the design team as it exists now is not the one that created those original stories.

[ZionHalcyon]

I would divvy up the pricing by chapter instead of by class, to counter this. So each purchase unlocks a chapter of class stories for all the classes, with multiple chapters (shorter than the original 3, of course) being offered for sale.

 

Not to mention certain class stories are more popular than others not because of how the classes play, but how the stories are written. It is impossible to say what the quality/enjoyment of future class stories would be. Especially considering the design team as it exists now is not the one that created those original stories.

 

If it can be pulled off, I agree this would be preferable. However, now we are asking them to add 8 quests instead of 1 at a time to the "just launched" expansion planet, and therefore it might have become too prohibitive at this point in terms of dedicating resources to this. By doing class stories one at a time over the year, it would allow a much smaller team to work on them over time, thereby allowing the addition of class stories to become a lot less resource-intensive and therefore far less prohibitive. Also, it allows on launch a quick and direct compensation for that work, so as long as people are buying it, the justifications to continue with this approach (and therefore add more class stories) would occur a lot more quickly for the powers that be who decide on the approach of the game. It would keep things on a more accelerated path.

[illgot]

Once.... just once... they released some little story snippets in a box in the CPs. If you unlocked and did the terminal misisons from each of those.. you got 30 seconds of unrelated to the class story and a unique set of adaptive armor for doing all six.

 

AND THE FORUM ERUPTED IN OUTRAGE THAT THEY PUT STORY (NO MATTER HOW SMALL) IN THE CM.

 

So Eric posted that they would never do that again. Players got their wish.

 

/Thread

 

You mean those things you can buy off the GTN? Players got all pissy about those? Wow, talk about getting what you ask for.

[ELRunninW]

Not quite. A class quest on its own would be about the duration of oricon's story. And when you consider I said to do this AFTER they release a faction planet, and re-using that planet as the class story backdrop. So no, nowhere near as expensive as you claim, because it makes use out of something bioware is going to do anyway (allegedly).

 

But that is only your opinion, no matter how convinced you are. I do not understand your goal behind this thread. You ask a question but already have answers to every possible answers people may give you, troll much?

[ZionHalcyon]

But that is only your opinion, no matter how convinced you are. I do not understand your goal behind this thread. You ask a question but already have answers to every possible answers people may give you, troll much?

 

I could say the same for you - I pose the question as a suggestion and already countered many of the typical arguments against in the initial post, and yet you seem to keep trying to strawman the thread anyway. So back at ya - troll much?

[ZionHalcyon]

And if you need a clearer point to the thread, its to gauge support and remain visible. And it should be noted that a handful of people barking loudly against doesn't mean it lacks support if others are chiming in with their ideas, alternate versions, or support of the thread. Being more sour and antagonistic and snarky doesn't make you right.

 

Even the people who disagree with me, and I disagree with in terms of how to go about this, I appreciate the discussion. Or in your world, does it only count as a discussion if everyone agrees? Sounds like a dull world you live in.

[branmakmuffin]

Once.... just once... they released some little story snippets in a box in the CPs. If you unlocked and did the terminal misisons from each of those.. you got 30 seconds of unrelated to the class story and a unique set of adaptive armor for doing all six.

 

AND THE FORUM ERUPTED IN OUTRAGE THAT THEY PUT STORY (NO MATTER HOW SMALL) IN THE CM.

 

So Eric posted that they would never do that again. Players got their wish.

 

/Thread

I missed this post. And I totally forgot about this happened. So yeah. what Andryah said.

[ZionHalcyon]

I missed this post. And I totally forgot about this happened. So yeah. what Andryah said.

 

Which was discounted in this post.

[branmakmuffin]

Which was discounted in this post.

That's a post you made. You can't "discount" a dev post (I'm assuming Andryah is correct) with a player post.

[Andryah]

That's a post you made. You can't "discount" a dev post (I'm assuming Andryah is correct) with a player post.

 

Yes.. the forum was extremely pissy about those story snippets. Many called it a "slippery slope to selling class story in the CM" and raged about it too.

 

and YES... Eric did say that they would not release story content in the CM again. Now, like all things, they could revisit their decision at any time.

 

But the fact remains that the idea of Class Story for sale in the CM (regardless of method, packs, direct, etc) is a giant forum baiting exercise. If they did it.. there would be much more forum uproar about it then those silly snippet boxes. Why? Because the premise of all the complaints back then was ------> Story is iconic in SWTOR... it should NEVER be for sale in the CM. I do not personally agree with that position, I am simply echoing it to remind people with short memories and/or selective bias filters how sensitive the player base is about story content in the CM.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Andryah

[Arkerus]

Which was discounted in this post.

 

LOL. You can't "discount" people's posts with opinions or made up ideas claiming its "apples and oranges".

 

It most certainly is at least similar.

 

Look out everyone, he's discounting posts now. Someone better hire this guy at Bioware.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Arkerus

[TUXs]

Yes.. the forum was extremely pissy about those story snippets. Many called it a "slippery slope to selling class story in the CM" and raged about it too.

 

and YES... Eric did say that they would not release story content in the CM again.

And Bioware made the right decision about this. I still support them and their stance to NOT release story content in the CM. It's the right move for them.

[ZionHalcyon]

And Bioware made the right decision about this. I still support them and their stance to NOT release story content in the CM. It's the right move for them.

 

There is still an inherent difference between releasing a cutscene in a cartel pack with a random chance to obtain, and releasing a class quest story line that you pay cartel coins for and receive directly.

 

And while everyone wants to infer what was said, does anyone have the EXACT LINK to what he said on that subject?

 

Because I think there is a lot of reading into his comments going on, and if we are going to dissect his comments, it would be best to have a direct quote with a link for validation here to go off for the purposes of accuracy.

[mikebevo]

The pay wall would be anything beyond the level 50 class stories. Keep in mind, you have to pay for new planets anyway in the form of an expansion. The class stories would be an addition to that planet, released one profession at a time over time, and those who want the planet and yet dont want the class stories don't have to pay for the class stories - they can just level with the planet mission ala makeb. All bioware promised was free 1-50 anyway.

Would love to see that, for no other reason than the rage it would bring to the forum. On noes, warrior got the story before knights, Dev's love warriors.

 

Personally I would like any future class stories to include a increase level cap increase, include new companions and new gear, better than anything in game now. Class stories should introduce new content and include new story arc operations to compliment the class stories. In other words a full expansion. Any Subscriber should be able to play it day one if they purchased it, since RotHC was giving away free to those that did not buy it, F2P, would have to buy RotHC and level to 55 before getting into the expansion. A perk for being a subscriber.

[branmakmuffin]

Story is iconic in SWTOR... it should NEVER be for sale in the CM. I do not personally agree with that position, I am simply echoing it to remind people with short memories and/or selective bias filters how sensitive the player base is about story content in the CM.

I don't agree with that position, either. Story is no more iconic in TOR than it is in LotRO, yet in LotRO all quests beyond the "starter" areas and the Epic quest line have to be purchased, via the in-game store for store "money," by non-subs.

 

I bought the datacubes off the GTN and found the "quests" to be enjoyable for what they were. And for 90 CC, I unlocked a complete set of adaptive armor. So that particular endeavor was a good idea as far as I'm concerned.

[branmakmuffin]

There is still an inherent difference between releasing a cutscene in a cartel pack with a random chance to obtain, and releasing a class quest story line that you pay cartel coins for and receive directly.

The difference is one of degree, not concept. But I will certainly agree that degree is very important. Drunk driving and jaywalking are both crimes (in many U.S. jurisdictions, anyway), but very different in degree.

 

And while everyone wants to infer what was said, does anyone have the EXACT LINK to what he said on that subject?

That's a fair request. As I said, I am assuming Andryah is correct because that is so often the case.

[ZionHalcyon]

I found it myself.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6476568&postcount=382

 

Hey everyone,

 

Our plan with the Encrypted Datacubes was simply to see if packs would be another avenue of getting story content in the game. It will always be the Cartel Market teams goal to look for new and interesting things to add into the Cartel Market which are not gameplay impacting (avoiding pay-to-win, etc.). With that being said, we have heard your feedback loud and clear on this and we have no plans to place the Datacubes in the Cartel Market in the future.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Nothing about story content. Just datacubes in cartel market. Nothing about lore. In short, nothing about what any of the people claiming "Eric said this!" and "Eric said that!" is actually anything that Eric said. My guess is some people glommed onto the "not gameplay impacting" but it makes it clear he is talking about mechanics (avoiding play to win comment).

 

So yeah, try again with the whole "Eric said" strawman, folks.

[Andryah]

I bought the datacubes off the GTN and found the "quests" to be enjoyable for what they were. And for 90 CC, I unlocked a complete set of adaptive armor. So that particular endeavor was a good idea as far as I'm concerned.

 

/Agree. I bought the cubes off the GTN back when they were common and low priced....to get the armor set for completing all 6.

 

Which was the entire point of the data cubes, IMO. People just way over-reacted in the forum, playing the hell out of the "slippery slope card" and predicting extreme doom and gloom.

 

But Eric admitted it was an experiment on their part, that did not go over well with the players.

 

The thing Zion fails to appreciate is that I actually have no objection to the sale of story arcs in the CM. I'd buy them from other players for sure. I am simply pointing out that there was pre-emptive rage in the extreme in the forums when they play tested those data cube missions.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I found it myself.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6476568&postcount=382

 

 

 

Nothing about story content. Just datacubes in cartel market. Nothing about lore. In short, nothing about what any of the people claiming "Eric said this!" and "Eric said that!" is actually anything that Eric said. My guess is some people glommed onto the "not gameplay impacting" but it makes it clear he is talking about mechanics (avoiding play to win comment).

 

So yeah, try again with the whole "Eric said" strawman, folks.

 

Feel free to interpret it anyway you like. The message is clear, on topic, and not running all astray of topic, unlike most player comments on the topic. If you think they did not see all the hyper-rhetoric around the topic in the context of "OMG... slippery slope to selling story!!".... you are not giving the devs due credit for listening to players.

 

The fact is... many forum members DID in fact state categorically that those data cubes represented selling story and selling game lore in the CM. Let's not pretend otherwise. I disagreed with them, and I believe one of them continues to carry my comments accordingly as their signature...because to them the cubes were lore and story and were anathema to do.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Andryah

[ZionHalcyon]

If you want to play the "to each his own" card with your "play it or don't" comment, then don't get your panties in a bunch when someone has an idea you don't like - after all, if you don't like it, you don't have to play, right?

[TUXs]

If you want to play the "to each his own" card with your "play it or don't" comment, then don't get your panties in a bunch when someone has an idea you don't like - after all, if you don't like it, you don't have to play, right?

 

I enjoy how that argument only seems to go one way with certain people

 

Thanks for finding the link. Perhaps we are reading too much into it, but I would be surprised if they stooped so low as to release story content via the CM. I hope I'm right.

[branmakmuffin]

If you want to play the "to each his own" card with your "play it or don't" comment, then don't get your panties in a bunch when someone has an idea you don't like - after all, if you don't like it, you don't have to play, right?

I can't speak for you, but where I'm sitting, no panties were bunched. There is nothing in this game, including forum posts, which can cause me to bunch my panties, virtual or otherwise.

 

And at no time did I say I did not like the idea. I have mentioned several times that LotRO does it pretty much the way you suggest, and it has yet to cause the universe to explode.

[Callaron]

But the fact remains that the idea of Class Story for sale in the CM (regardless of method, packs, direct, etc) is a giant forum baiting exercise. If they did it.. there would be much more forum uproar about it then those silly snippet boxes. Why? Because the premise of all the complaints back then was ------> Story is iconic in SWTOR... it should NEVER be for sale in the CM. I do not personally agree with that position, I am simply echoing it to remind people with short memories and/or selective bias filters how sensitive the player base is about story content in the CM.

 

It always baffles me how SWTOR's devs seem like they are letting players bully them, while other MMO developers don't seem to have that problem.

DDO, TSW, Defiance, and I'm pretty sure there are other examples I don't know/forgot about - they all sell story content without any problems whatsoever.

Maybe they simply put their foot down early in the process - or maybe SWTOR somehow wound up with all the entitled players...

Then again, maybe we should be grateful they aren't doing it - if their only interest in doing it was to stuff them in CM packs rather than have them for sale directly.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Callaron

[ZionHalcyon]

Feel free to interpret it anyway you like. The message is clear, on topic, and not running all astray of topic, unlike most player comments on the topic. If you think they did not see all the hyper-rhetoric around the topic in the context of "OMG... slippery slope to selling story!!".... you are not giving the devs due credit for listening to players.

 

When I see threads like this showing up on a monthly basis if not sooner, and read how class story content has been brought up at just about every cantina tour this past summer, I would say I am giving the devs plenty of due "credit" for how they choose to (or NOT to) listen to the players.

[Aries_cz]

I was one of the people who argued that subscribers should not pay for story unless it was in an expansion pack, and I think that was the key part of the problem. Lots of people had problems that it was a "very rare" drop from Cartel Packs, so it was, again, lottery. And placing a "story" into CM lottery for subscribers seemed bad, because it seemingly further lowered the value of subscription.

 

Lot of people back then were actually fine if it was done like Section X, Free or discounted for subs, and fully priced for others. However, I still think that large story chunks should be part of expansion pack.