The Truth about "One Shots"

[mr_sim]

There are a lot of people complaining about being One Shot. There is in fact, and this is only based upon my own research, only one instance of a true one shot that exists.

 

Lets make one thing clear. A "One Shot" is a single trigger pull that kills a person that has full health and full shields. Anything else is a "Fast Burst Kill" or simply a "Burst Kill."

 

So the only known One Shot, comes from a GS build that bypasses shields. More over as far as I"m aware Only Scout class is commonly vulnerable to this One Shot death, I've never encountered it in my strike fighter though it may be possible fore the RNG to let this happen occasionally, that said It is my belief that the one shot mechanic is only effective against Scout craft.

 

Take note that this mechanic would require full charge + on target + buff + favorable RNG results hence one a fraction of possible shots(shots that are discarded by the pilot) taken by a GS will result in a first strike kill.

 

THERE IS NO ONE SHOT FROM A SCOUT OR A STRIKE FIGHTER. There are however Burst Builds. What is a Burst Kill though?

 

When we fight it is a series of lined up shots and response from our opponents. Note: attempted missile lock that generates a tone for your opponent constitutes one instance of a "lined up shot." In one instance of a lined up shot you may be able to deliver multiple hits, it is only when your opponent is capable(including if they ignore your attack) of breaking from your attack that said instance ends. A burst kill is when a you kill an opponent before they are able to break off form your attack by exiting your cross hairs. A burst kill is also extremely brief less then 4-5 seconds(opinions may vary).

 

>Striker fighter(all types) It is my belief that burst kills are in fact possible with this class however they require extreme skill use of cooldowns and missile lock by one of the long period lock missiles(so not cluster missiles) immediatly followed up or in conjunction by buffed(companion) laser hits, this also is an extreme outside example of a burst kill as the duration of the missile lock takes so long. This Burst Kill requires a ton of skill + buff + and RNG love. it is extremely rare and therefore IMO should not be considered OP. As a dedicated strike pilot I don't believe I've ever accomplished this on a moving target. Also as with the GS One Shot it's mostly limited to use on scouts.

 

Scout

- Black bolt and nova dive. I do not believe they can Burst kill but if they could it would require extreme precision and RNG love.

 

- Sting, Flashfire, and Cartel Scouts. These do have a much more simple Burst Kill. I'm no scout pilot so I cannot Describe it fully, However the variant I've frequently encountered involved Burst lasers + cluster missiles at the same time, I'm told that a bypass stat must be present, and a Buff may or may not be required as well. However unlike every other One Shot and Burst kill, this one seems to be equally effective on any class.

 

So next time you feel "one shot" consider:

- Was I at full health?

- Was It actually a Short Burst Kill?

- Was It multiple attackers simulating a Burst Kill?

- Was it actually good piloting that just followed up with 2 lined up and powerful shot.?

- Am I in a Scout and killed by a GS?

 

Personal opinion: The Flashfire/Sting Sort Burst Kill is too frequent/easy to accomplish, Sorta like the burst kill operatives/scoundrels were doing i n early release Ground PvP. Hence I declare that it is out of balance. However if you disagree and feel it is not out of balance(AKA OP), It does Degrade Gameplay there are already plenty of incentives to fly scout , and scouts are plenty deadly without this mechanic. Therefore for either reason it should receive adjustment before general release.

 

Personal opinion: The best gamplay experience is Win or loose a dogfight you feel you performed well regardless. If you are One Shot/burst killed too often you will despise gameplay.

Please do not reply to me that "if you don't like it roll your own and do the same thing" it's a silly and elitest statement that really says "Diverse Gameplay is overrated."

[TrinityLyre]

- Sting, Flashfire, and Cartel Scouts. These do have a much more simple Burst Kill. I'm no scout pilot so I cannot Describe it fully, However the variant I've frequently encountered involved Burst lasers + cluster missiles at the same time, I'm told that a bypass stat must be present, and a Buff may or may not be required as well. However unlike every other One Shot and Burst kill, this one seems to be equally effective on any class.

 

The situation you're referring to with the Ocula/Sting/Flashfire is BLC or QLC + Cluster Missiles + Bypass + Blaster Overcharge.

 

I think the point some individuals try to make is that they are killed much too quick to react. These situations aren't necessarily one-shots, as you said. The abilities in conjunction cause TTK (time-to-kill) to be ridiculously short.

Another thing to note is that gunships can't one-shot anything other than scouts with Bypass, but they can almost immediately eliminate another gunship with a smaller slug shot following the fully charged one. Another burst kill, by your definition.

 

The solution is that Bypass just needs to be toned down, it's too effective an ability to choose any other. It's amusing to kill three scouts in succession with Bypass + Slug shots, but it's pretty horrible to be on the receiving end, where your only hope is to keep an eye out for any gunships within 15,000m of wherever you are fighting.

Edited December 29, 2013 by TrinityLyre

[mr_sim]

Another thing to note is that gunships can't one-shot anything other than scouts with Bypass, but they can almost immediately eliminate another gunship with a smaller slug shot following the fully charged one. Another burst kill, by your definition.

 

Well my definition stated that if a pilot can evade before killed it's not a burst kill, that all said GS vs GS is a who shot first kinda thing. Everything about GS is element of surprise kinda vehicle and the way its role works is so outside the mold from Scout and Striker.

[RCSlyman]

I think the point some individuals try to make is that they are killed much too quick to react. These situations aren't necessarily one-shots, as you said. The abilities in conjunction cause TTK (time-to-kill) to be ridiculously short.

Another thing to note is that gunships can't one-shot anything other than scouts with Bypass, but they can almost immediately eliminate another gunship with a smaller slug shot following the fully charged one. Another burst kill, by your definition.

 

Well, it's not quads, I'll tell you that. Burst cannons are what the scouts will tear you to shreds with before you even know what hit you. Assuming I'm hitting 100% of my shots on a target, Burst Cannon with Blaster Overcharge will down a scout in <1 second, a gunship in 1.5 seconds, and a strike fighter in 2 seconds of continuous assault, assuming an average build on the opponent. I'll get random tells asking me what I use, something along the lines of "I watched my ship just melt". Because that's pretty much what happens. The first shot tears down the shields on a scout (two for the other two), and the next shots cream the hull. but it will never be a one-shot. That just isn't possible.

[mr_sim]

but it will never be a one-shot. That just isn't possible.

 

pretty much what this thread is saying.

 

Assuming I'm hitting 100% of my shots on a target, Burst Cannon with Blaster Overcharge will down a scout in <1 second, a gunship in 1.5 seconds, and a strike fighter in 2 seconds of continuous assault, assuming an average build on the opponent. I'll get random tells asking me what I use, something along the lines of "I watched my ship just melt".

 

So let me ask you. Do you think this ability should remain as is? or Should it be taken down a bit?. Are you just keeping it while the fun lasts?

 

Take note that there is a real risk that your build will discourage players away from GSF.

[Vodrin]

There are a lot of people complaining about being One Shot. There is in fact, and this is only based upon my own research, only one instance of a true one shot that exists.

 

Lets make one thing clear. A "One Shot" is a single trigger pull that kills a person that has full health and full shields. Anything else is a "Fast Burst Kill" or simply a "Burst Kill."

 

So the only known One Shot, comes from a GS build that bypasses shields. More over as far as I"m aware Only Scout class is commonly vulnerable to this One Shot death, I've never encountered it in my strike fighter though it may be possible fore the RNG to let this happen occasionally, that said It is my belief that the one shot mechanic is only effective against Scout craft.

 

Take note that this mechanic would require full charge + on target + buff + favorable RNG results hence one a fraction of possible shots(shots that are discarded by the pilot) taken by a GS will result in a first strike kill.

 

THERE IS NO ONE SHOT FROM A SCOUT OR A STRIKE FIGHTER. There are however Burst Builds. What is a Burst Kill though?

 

When we fight it is a series of lined up shots and response from our opponents. Note: attempted missile lock that generates a tone for your opponent constitutes one instance of a "lined up shot." In one instance of a lined up shot you may be able to deliver multiple hits, it is only when your opponent is capable(including if they ignore your attack) of breaking from your attack that said instance ends. A burst kill is when a you kill an opponent before they are able to break off form your attack by exiting your cross hairs. A burst kill is also extremely brief less then 4-5 seconds(opinions may vary).

 

>Striker fighter(all types) It is my belief that burst kills are in fact possible with this class however they require extreme skill use of cooldowns and missile lock by one of the long period lock missiles(so not cluster missiles) immediatly followed up or in conjunction by buffed(companion) laser hits, this also is an extreme outside example of a burst kill as the duration of the missile lock takes so long. This Burst Kill requires a ton of skill + buff + and RNG love. it is extremely rare and therefore IMO should not be considered OP. As a dedicated strike pilot I don't believe I've ever accomplished this on a moving target. Also as with the GS One Shot it's mostly limited to use on scouts.

 

Scout

- Black bolt and nova dive. I do not believe they can Burst kill but if they could it would require extreme precision and RNG love.

 

- Sting, Flashfire, and Cartel Scouts. These do have a much more simple Burst Kill. I'm no scout pilot so I cannot Describe it fully, However the variant I've frequently encountered involved Burst lasers + cluster missiles at the same time, I'm told that a bypass stat must be present, and a Buff may or may not be required as well. However unlike every other One Shot and Burst kill, this one seems to be equally effective on any class.

 

So next time you feel "one shot" consider:

- Was I at full health?

- Was It actually a Short Burst Kill?

- Was It multiple attackers simulating a Burst Kill?

- Was it actually good piloting that just followed up with 2 lined up and powerful shot.?

- Am I in a Scout and killed by a GS?

 

Personal opinion: The Flashfire/Sting Sort Burst Kill is too frequent/easy to accomplish, Sorta like the burst kill operatives/scoundrels were doing i n early release Ground PvP. Hence I declare that it is out of balance. However if you disagree and feel it is not out of balance(AKA OP), It does Degrade Gameplay there are already plenty of incentives to fly scout , and scouts are plenty deadly without this mechanic. Therefore for either reason it should receive adjustment before general release.

 

Personal opinion: The best gamplay experience is Win or loose a dogfight you feel you performed well regardless. If you are One Shot/burst killed too often you will despise gameplay.

Please do not reply to me that "if you don't like it roll your own and do the same thing" it's a silly and elitest statement that really says "Diverse Gameplay is overrated."

 

Not really true. You can one shot an unmodified scout with bypass and a proton torpedo shot.

[mr_sim]

Not really true. You can one shot an unmodified scout with bypass and a proton torpedo shot.

 

Perhaps, still the scout has ample opportunity to evade and it probably still needs a good RNG roll. I suppose this may be a "One Shot" but as you say unmodified. Certainly not a game breaker of any sort, Really there is no more precious sight to a striker pilot then a proton torp hit as it's such a slow warhead and the lock itself is so hard(comparatively).

[Zoom_VI]

Not really true. You can one shot an unmodified scout with bypass and a proton torpedo shot.

 

Proton torpedo has 100% shield pen, bypass does nothing for it. What you are seeing is ptorp critting not bypass.

[mr_sim]

Proton torpedo has 100% shield pen, bypass does nothing for it. What you are seeing is ptorp critting not bypass.

 

Shouldn't it be shield bypass and armor penetration? just picking at the language iIll need to reread the tool tips maybe. But how do you bypass armor?

[Zoom_VI]

Shouldn't it be shield bypass and armor penetration? just picking at the language iIll need to reread the tool tips maybe. But how do you bypass armor?

 

armor is not penetrated its ignored. Thats the lingo.

 

Proton torpedoes respect armor but penetrate 100% of the targets shields.

 

Bypass grants a significant amount of shield penetration but since you can't exceed 100% penetration it does nothing for Ptorps.

 

Ptorps have no defualt armor penetration.

[LeonBraun]

The situation you're referring to with the Ocula/Sting/Flashfire is BLC or QLC + Cluster Missiles + Bypass + Blaster Overcharge.

 

I think the point some individuals try to make is that they are killed much too quick to react. These situations aren't necessarily one-shots, as you said. The abilities in conjunction cause TTK (time-to-kill) to be ridiculously short.

Another thing to note is that gunships can't one-shot anything other than scouts with Bypass, but they can almost immediately eliminate another gunship with a smaller slug shot following the fully charged one. Another burst kill, by your definition.

 

The solution is that Bypass just needs to be toned down, it's too effective an ability to choose any other. It's amusing to kill three scouts in succession with Bypass + Slug shots, but it's pretty horrible to be on the receiving end, where your only hope is to keep an eye out for any gunships within 15,000m of wherever you are fighting.

 

This burst of the Scout doing this can be done once every couple minutes as there is a fairly healthy CD on Bypass. Also of note, for this to be achieved most prey of this tactic are stationary, flying in a straight line (or playing chicken), or are facing the other direction and aren't aware of the attack.

 

The best counter to this is mobility. Once a Scout blows these CD's they are paper thin for several minutes, and often times will also be short on boost as they typically race in for these kinds of kills.

[mr_sim]

The best counter to this is mobility. Once a Scout blows these CD's they are paper thin for several minutes, and often times will also be short on boost as they typically race in for these kinds of kills.

 

True we just need an extra second to try mobility.

[tunewalker]

armor is not penetrated its ignored. Thats the lingo.

 

Proton torpedoes respect armor but penetrate 100% of the targets shields.

 

Bypass grants a significant amount of shield penetration but since you can't exceed 100% penetration it does nothing for Ptorps.

 

Ptorps have no defualt armor penetration.

 

Wrong. Proton Torps Passively have 100% Shield AND Armor Piercing. They do not passively have Crit you have to upgrade for that. When they do Crit they can kill a scout in 1 shot though, but given the 4 second lock on time 12 degree firing Arc and 11 second reload times even an un-upgraded ship can dodge these missiles indefinitely 1v1 (aka don't ever use Proton Torps if you are trying to solo some one if they are half decent you wont hit them, further more if you aren't soloing some one then that means they are likely being hit thus by the time you lock this missile on fire it and it reaches its target..... you would have suited better with any other missile....... just don't use Proton Torps they are terribad.)

[ToMyMa]

Wrong. Proton Torps Passively have 100% Shield AND Armor Piercing. They do not passively have Crit you have to upgrade for that. When they do Crit they can kill a scout in 1 shot though, but given the 4 second lock on time 12 degree firing Arc and 11 second reload times even an un-upgraded ship can dodge these missiles indefinitely 1v1 (aka don't ever use Proton Torps if you are trying to solo some one if they are half decent you wont hit them, further more if you aren't soloing some one then that means they are likely being hit thus by the time you lock this missile on fire it and it reaches its target..... you would have suited better with any other missile....... just don't use Proton Torps they are terribad.)

 

No. Torps are mostly used to mindgame the opponent, and they do their job well. And strikers weren't designed to solo kill, they were designed to assist teammates.

[tunewalker]

No. Torps are mostly used to mindgame the opponent, and they do their job well. And strikers weren't designed to solo kill, they were designed to assist teammates.

 

you can mind game just as well with a concussive missile if not better and actually be able to potentially hit with the thing. I believe every ship should be able to "Solo kill" or "assist teammates" depending on pilot not on ship class. If every other ship can solo kill except for a strike there is a problem.

Edited December 29, 2013 by tunewalker

[Hitomo_x]

with unmastered torps, you first seek to maximize your aim wich is done by turningspeed and firing arc,

there are different Options among the Crew and components to achieve that

 

if you can maintain the lock and fire the torp you have plenty of time before the torp will reach

its target so using this time to fire an additional Missile is mandatory ...

 

if all works out you will see the Missile and the torp hit your target at the same time

 

with mastered torps you will have less of a Problem

cause if you know how to get the lock the upgraded torp will always hit its target

its simply to fast to give the Opponent time to react properly

 

I ones approached a satelite wich was guarded by two Scouts and they totaly ignored me,

I stayed at around 10km, got my lock and one-shooted one of them with a crit.torp

 

while boosting back to team mates and dodging angry blaster shots I felt like

a perfect troll

[Lytewraith]

lol yea i have done that with my pike what is awsome when you get them both i torped a guy from 11.25k it crit killed him and by the time the other scout had got into my 6900 heavy laser range i had the concussion locking on which is 7300m atm and launched it speed in hit lingering effects abilty for the dot and blaster 1 time watched him die as i was killing his turrets was helerious

[Hvutty]

Just wanted to add to this:

 

I have one-shotted a few scouts in my gunship. I don't have Bypass on my gunship, even though I heard some recommend it.

I'm pretty sure, that I have been shooting at a near-to-none-upgraded scout.

I'm not excactly sure of the numbers. Often I do around 1600 damage. If they ship is below that, I believe I can one-shoot it. If no new-spawned ships is below 1600 from start, then it can only be a shot, that crits. I think I can do up to 2400 in damage on full with crit.

I rarely do the one-shot kills, and it's fine by me. If the enemy ship has been upgraded a bit and can hold my shots, then I need to shoot them again. IF I get the one-shot kill, I don't feel that enjoyment, because I'm pretty sure I have just shot a totally new player on his non-upgrade ship, and there is no future in scaring players away this way.

 

Overall, I think the GS is working pretty well atm. The only concern I still have, is when preferred and F2P enters, they will meet us in our much upgraded ships and they will run off after a game or two.

 

Cya in there

[mr_sim]

Just wanted to add to this:

 

Overall, I think the GS is working pretty well atm. The only concern I still have, is when preferred and F2P enters, they will meet us in our much upgraded ships and they will run off after a game or two.

 

Cya in there

 

there is a theory of a matchmaker yet to be applied. It would surprise me if the Preferred status get screwed as it will still be a form of early access, but I anticipate some que balancing for Feb full launch.

 

I do anticipate more game modes for mid Jan and possibly even the bomber this will topple the jenga tower a little as all players will be adapting

[Arilou_skiff]

I do believe it is also technically possible to one-shot a scout with the Plasma Railgun+Bypass. (although since it's a DOT it ironically can take quite a long time to actually die from it...)

[mr_sim]

I do believe it is also technically possible to one-shot a scout with the Plasma Railgun+Bypass. (although since it's a DOT it ironically can take quite a long time to actually die from it...)

 

meh still same end mechanic, charged GS shot crits and kills a scout. I'm no GS driver though so no idea if it's that effective or not.

[DanNV]

I now have a gunship with a fully modded rail gun. Last night I was getting oneshots on scouts on a semi-regular basis. Not full time, but I also wasn't using bypass. I believe I got one oneshot on a strike, but am not 100% sure on that one. My moderately modded scout gets oneshotted fairly regularly, usually by the tier 2 scouts or a gunship. My strike gets oneshotted occasionally, but not as often, usually it's the first knocks you into red and the second kills you. My gunship is moderately modded and it too gets oneshotted by the tier 2 scouts and once in a while by a gunship. I don't believe I have been oneshotted by a strike fighter, those are usually missiles and then blasters and takes a bit more effort on their part and usually occurs when I am trying to defend a satellite and can't really maneuver like I'd like to.

[mr_sim]

I now have a gunship with a fully modded rail gun. Last night I was getting oneshots on scouts on a semi-regular basis. Not full time, but I also wasn't using bypass. I believe I got one oneshot on a strike, but am not 100% sure on that one. My moderately modded scout gets oneshotted fairly regularly, usually by the tier 2 scouts or a gunship. My strike gets oneshotted occasionally, but not as often, usually it's the first knocks you into red and the second kills you. My gunship is moderately modded and it too gets oneshotted by the tier 2 scouts and once in a while by a gunship. I don't believe I have been oneshotted by a strike fighter, those are usually missiles and then blasters and takes a bit more effort on their part and usually occurs when I am trying to defend a satellite and can't really maneuver like I'd like to.

 

scouts can't one shot, only Burst kill.

[DanNV]

scouts can't one shot, only Burst kill.

Personally, I don't give a damn what you call it. If you register one hit and dead, that's a oneshot as far as I'm concerned and I expect most players will agree with me. You want a more technical definition, fine, have at. But don't expect anyone else to go along with nit picking when it's just an attempt to claim there's no problem when one is becoming obvious.

[Zoom_VI]

scouts can't one shot, only Burst kill.

 

If i can kill a target in 1 second it might as well be a one-shot becuase once you factor in server latency and humen reaction time you will realise that a one second kill means that the target is dead just as their brain registers the first hit. Technically that is not a one-shot but for practical intents it is b/c if you can't react fast enough to evade then you might as well be instagibbed.