Dranmarth Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Nevermind, reading comprehension fail. Edited January 18, 2012 by Dranmarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 so your frapsing the encounter, then adding the numbers together and then dividing the time to postulate your dps? I'll wait for actual combat logs thank you. I am, yes, but I dont expect you to, I am only trying to help generate a same gear/same skill level and same understanding of how the class works comparison of dps output between the differant specs, in lieu of a combat log until we get one. My dps output on lvl 50 champion classed mobs (big spider robots in battle for illum HM fp with a healer) is a bit higher than Kiba's at around 2.2k, but I attribute this to gear and the robot having less armor. (I have mostly columi and some rakata gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartless-hate Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My reading comprehension is not lax kiba! CoC as you say is useful at times, and useless in others. I understand that and agree. on the other hand i think you also agree that root on ravage is useless on a boss. so from a purely max. dps perspective, the build i posted will provide the maximum theoretical dps for a carnage spec. also note, that i have 2 points floating in the build i posted. you can do whatever with them, as there are no major dps gains to be had with them. so again, to restate what i am saying: i am not telling you that you should spec my way or else, but i am showing you a spec that i think is the best in pve dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatista Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks to the OP for a great post, much appreciated and I will use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 My reading comprehension is not lax kiba! CoC as you say is useful at times, and useless in others. I understand that and agree. on the other hand i think you also agree that root on ravage is useless on a boss. so from a purely max. dps perspective, the build i posted will provide the maximum theoretical dps for a carnage spec. also note, that i have 2 points floating in the build i posted. you can do whatever with them, as there are no major dps gains to be had with them. so again, to restate what i am saying: i am not telling you that you should spec my way or else, but i am showing you a spec that i think is the best in pve dps. To be completely honest I'm just too lazy and too cheap to respec back and forth in PvP so I'm not going to be dropping Overwhelm till I can dual-spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanzel Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Just some observations on the priority I've made while raiding as Carnage: I can't say for certain since there's still no combat log and the RNG swings on my personal testing were a tad too massive, but I've noticed that the priority becomes irrelevant if not overtaken during berserk by just spamming massacre while berserk( gore > massacre still, obviously). The theory is that the increased berserk uptime makes up for what feels like the sloppiest play ever. While under the effects of berserk you can't build more fury stacks until the ones you have are already gone; on a 1 second GCD you can burn through those berserk charges pretty quickly. In the ideal situation you would throw force scream on at the end of the chain with a gore still applied, unless you absolutely had to have a scream thrown in for burst(finishing off a mind trap, whatever). The final massacre charge gets consumed, and you lead into force scream provided the ataru buff hasn't fallen. While not berserk you'd still want to keep force scream on cooldown, but using rage-spenders and getting no fury charges felt like something of a waste. This also is a tad more rage efficient, so I'm very seldom if ever hitting my Assault button. Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranmarth Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) So from what I'm seeing, assuming you have 100% base accuracy, 110% special attack accuracy, the best item mods (at least for gearing up for HM FPs) for moddable gear are: Hilt - Advanced Might Hilt 23 (Weapon damage 126, +48 Str, +34 End) Daily commendation vendor Armoring - Advanced Might Armoring 22 (Armor rating 124, +47 Str, +33 End) Daily commendation vendor Mod - Advanced Deft Mod 22 (+36 Str, +21 End, +27 Power) Heroic Daily Quest "Freeing the Fallen" Enhancement - Advanced Adept Enhancement 22 (+18 End, +27 Power, +39 surge) Crafted by Artificers Crystal - Advanced *color* Resonating crystal (+33 Power) Crafted by Artificers Anyone find any better then those, outside of Flashpoints and Operations, and assuming you are at the accuracy listed above? Edited January 19, 2012 by Dranmarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) As far as moddable gear goes yes, that looks more than optimal. Edit: wait; where can you buy mods for daily commendations? o.O Edited January 18, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranmarth Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 As far as moddable gear goes yes, that looks more than optimal. Edit: wait; where can you buy mods for daily commendations? o.O Hehe, oops, fixed that, it's from the Heroic Daily quest on Belsavis, Freeing the Fallen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hehe, oops, fixed that, it's from the Heroic Daily quest on Belsavis, Freeing the Fallen And to think I thought Belsavis dailies weren't worth it since I didn't need the money. Thank you for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshinth Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I'm not a fan of anni, but I agreed to give it a week's worth of raiding to test run it. The things I found were that as the only marauder in the raid (for 8 mans), I have to be in a dps group for maximum effeciancy, and the buffs I give are only for the dps, so the extra heals (dps should not be taking any extra dmg that isn't taken care of with the standard healing rotations already) are wasted, the 10% defense is wasted because I'm not in the group with the tanks, etc. I know it's a great encounter to test dps parsing, especially if you are unable to use a fraps'd clip to record 5 minutes of dps (the boss sizes make catching the numbers very difficult at times, especially with knockbacks, and movement). TLDR; Having run both anni and Carnage in normal and hard mode raids, carnage has better damage (based on combat parses with recorded videos and time stamps), altho the anni spec FEELS like more dps because you see consistantly higher numbers from the dots (even when you are away from the target). I still have a full raid lockout with anni coming up tho, so I'll rerun the numbers just to make sure and I'll post the results. Also, I'll try the berserk just before activating the console. Regarding the console trick: Have you tried popping beserk, then popping frenzy and bloodthirst as well, so that you can use both? I pop bloodthirst with the console trick And berserk in carnage spec is not a party buff so I use it during the fight. But in ur case yes u can pop both with console trick but consider u will have to engage ur target fast and start hitting hard to make use of both those buffs as u will be losing like 1-2 secs of them while waiting for the bosses to come down and wut not so u can atk. Edited January 19, 2012 by Kenshinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanitasStrife Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You mention you need 110% accuracy for both Annihilation and Carnage, just wondered about those percentages on my character sheet. Do you mean 110% on the character sheet itself? Or like when you scroll over accuracy and you get a list of tables like Basic accuracy, secondary weapon and Special attacks and secondary weapon with that too. Are you meant to have 110% with just special attacks or basic accuracy as well? if someone could clear that up for me I'd appreciate it a lot thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Based on newer information it is likely that you only need +5% accuracy (95% acc on basic attacks, or 105% on special attacks) for general purposes. Against premades in PvP (5% miss debuff from tank ACs), up to +10% (100% on basic, 110% on special) may be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanitasStrife Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) So.. you only need 105% on specials and 95 for basic to hit a Raid Operations boss? What about power, crit and surge, is it still holding for Annihilation marauders that crit and surge is more stronger than power? Edited January 19, 2012 by VanitasStrife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Huh, well, it's basically like this: 1. While leveling, STR > power > crit/surge > acc. Your base damage sucks too bad for crit/surge to be worth a damn. 2. At higher levels (40+?), STR > crit/surge > power > acc, because crit/surge is good. 3. With higher-end gear you're pushing into diminishing returns on crit and surge a bunch, so STR > power > crit/surge > acc. Edited January 19, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanitasStrife Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 At what kind of percentages crit and surge are we talking when it starts to diminishing returns on those stats? I'm about 24% crit and 73% surge right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Based on newer information it is likely that you only need +5% accuracy (95% acc on basic attacks, or 105% on special attacks) for general purposes. Against premades in PvP (5% miss debuff from tank ACs), up to +10% (100% on basic, 110% on special) may be effective. I understood some classes(tanks, sages) had a base defense chance of 10%, for pvp purposes. At what kind of percentages crit and surge are we talking when it starts to diminishing returns on those stats? I'm about 24% crit and 73% surge right now. 50% surge(total of 100% crit mult, 50% base and 50% from surge) is where the DR kicks in. I dunno about crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okraus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Where is the part about the Rage-Tree? I am waiting for some time now and hope that Kiba will use the reserved post for it soon. Just wanna see if my experiences as Rage-Marauder fit to Kiba's analysis and maybe i get some new ideas and aspects from it. Really looking forward to it. Any ETA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I understood some classes(tanks, sages) had a base defense chance of 10%, for pvp purposes. All classes have a 5% base avoidance. From there it depends ... tbh I'd have to go take a look at the trees. I don't believe Assassins had any %avoidance in their dps specs. IIRC Sorc/Sages had some raw damage reduction talents, but no avoidance buffs. All tanks (and some Juggs in DPS spec) can pick up an aoe -5% miss debuff. 50% surge(total of 100% crit mult, 50% base and 50% from surge) is where the DR kicks in. I dunno about crit. Incorrect: the formula for surge rating conversion "starts to DR" at 1 surge rating. The conversion rate continually decays more and more. When you hit +49% surge (which you won't), it requires an infinite amount of rating to reach +50%. The +50% mark is an unreachable hardcap. In other words, surge does not have a linear return "up to a certain point", and there is no softcap where surge goes from good to bad. As a practical matter, when you hit +25-30%, it's going to slow down a lot. It's probably not worth itemizing for after +30-35% until we hit new tiers of gear. Edited January 20, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) All classes have a 5% base avoidance. From there it depends ... tbh I'd have to go take a look at the trees. I don't believe Assassins had any %avoidance in their dps specs. IIRC Sorc/Sages had some raw damage reduction talents, but no avoidance buffs. My lowbie sorc. Edited January 20, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hmm, that's interesting. A Powertech in our guild says he has a 50% base crit rate on his character sheet. I'm 99% sure that my Marauder has a 5% base defense. I'll double check my Assassin and Sage tonight ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 My mara does have a 5% base defense chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 My mara does have a 5% base defense chance. http://i.imgur.com/QHANN.jpg The fact that we have lower Defense than a ranged class is... disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/QHANN.jpg The fact that we have lower Defense than a ranged class is... disturbing. *** that is odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I just asked in my guild and the assasins and sorc both have 10% base defese Edited January 21, 2012 by AcaciaDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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