Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

[Kenshinth]

After speaking to Kibaken abit ago we both on same server. We came up with a decent tool to calculate dps and requires a boss in EV (the council). On reg mode the mara's have 75k HP with 2 min reset timer's. So with ur back against the wall to stop the stupid knock back they do. U time urself how long it takes for u to kill it. Then take 75k and divide that by how long it took u to kill it. So if it takes u 60 secs to kill it ur doing 1250 dps. If u dont kill it and it resets then ur not doing 625 dps thats required to beat the reset. All dps classes could probably use the same fight and formula to calculate their dps. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kenshinth

[Bloodymoon]

Why do you not simply use the boss for the Magenta crystals? Can be summoned as often as people with the water are there, has 210k, no enrage timer and, with tank+healer, can be tanked as usually, so that you can attack from behind.

[Nadrojjj]

This is excellent, please get that rage up there asap!

[Rouncer]

Haven't read the whole thread yet but I was wondering why your Annihilation spec has 3 points in Malice instead of putting those points into Narrowed Hatred?

 

Seems like 3% accuracy to all of our attacks would have a lot more value then 6% critical strike to just a few of them.

[Sayc]

Your accuracy will be at 110% from gear, once you get some decent gear. I'm sitting at 108% accuracy with only 4 pieces of purple gear. Also malice affects DoTs which make up a lot of annihilation spec damage, moreso than the others specs.

[Kibaken]

Your accuracy will be at 110% from gear, once you get some decent gear. I'm sitting at 108% accuracy with only 4 pieces of purple gear. Also malice affects DoTs which make up a lot of annihilation spec damage, moreso than the others specs.

 

There is a lot of Accuracy on Raid gear. As Carnage at the moment I'm sitting at around 115% special Accuracy but I don't want to get rid of all of it now since it's still not "full gear" so to speak. I'm getting rid of a little and adding more Power/Surge as I go.

 

Battle Enhancements are extremely useful in this regard.

 

 

Apparently stand-alone mods can actually drop in Hard-modes (according to some guy trying to pawn a BoE Level 56 enhancement). As to how often enhancements drop and how many different possibilities there are (if only one boss, for instance, has a chance to drop 2 of a total of 60 different mods *****aboutit). Unfortunately I don't have any reliable loot list for this purpose.

 

I still have a very strong feeling that, more or less, the stock gear will end up going a very long way.

 

 

 

As for the crystal boss, I'm well aware he exists. Unfortunately it's a very hot commodity for both the Republic and the Empire on my server (mainly since the Reddit guilds are on Death Wind Corridor and news travels so fast in that community) and trying to rely on constantly spawning to test DPS would eventually cause a perpetual PvP battle.

 

Theoretically any Elite mob that's easily soloable will work for the purposes of eyeballing your overall DPS, however soloing them without a companion would be difficult. The best thing I could say is to eyeball your companion's overall DPS on a strong mob and then subtract that from what you find on the elite. Self combat logs are coming soon enough to where I don't think such silliness will be needed for long.

[Bloodymoon]

I see. That is unfortunate then.

 

Regarding the raid enhancements: We usually get one from NM Gharj.

 

And I also have Advanced Deft Mod 24 and Advanced Battle Enhancement 24 in all slots (besides one for Accuracy). I am not even sure if I should switch to Power/Surge Enhancement, should I able to get them since my stats are currently very nicely balanced.

 

Edit:

 

I corrected "schematics" to "enhancements"...

Edited January 16, 2012 by Bloodymoon

[Rouncer]

Your accuracy will be at 110% from gear, once you get some decent gear. I'm sitting at 108% accuracy with only 4 pieces of purple gear. Also malice affects DoTs which make up a lot of annihilation spec damage, moreso than the others specs.

 

Why would malice affect dots? It affects Force attacks and neither rupture nor deadly saber are Force attacks. Is there actual testing confirming that behavior?

[Kibaken]

Unfortunately my guild is just getting into the steady raid schedule and I've only cleared KP once. I really want a datamined list of loot available so we see can see what kind of mods are available from where.

 

For Carnage - and probably for Annihilation as well - dropping Accuracy for Surge and Power are probably going to end up being king. If the bosses drop the Battle Enhancements that would be shiny.

[Sayc]

Why would malice affect dots? It affects Force attacks and neither rupture nor deadly saber are Force attacks. Is there actual testing confirming that behavior?

 

Check the DoT tooltips with varying levels of willpower.

[Kibaken]

Why would malice affect dots? It affects Force attacks and neither rupture nor deadly saber are Force attacks. Is there actual testing confirming that behavior?

 

Yellow damage is believed to be Force attacks based on logic.

[Sayc]

Yellow damage is believed to be Force attacks based on logic.

 

This too.

[Ra_tm]

What I'm trying to piece together is whether Malice is needed on the Carnage spec.

Since we're already getting 100% crit on our only important force attack, the scream, wouldn't those 3 points be better spent elsewhere?

[Shadinaxx]

After speaking to Kibaken abit ago we both on same server. We came up with a decent tool to calculate dps and requires a boss in EV (the council). On reg mode the mara's have 75k HP with 2 min reset timer's. So with ur back against the wall to stop the stupid knock back they do. U time urself how long it takes for u to kill it. Then take 75k and divide that by how long it took u to kill it. So if it takes u 60 secs to kill it ur doing 1250 dps. If u dont kill it and it resets then ur not doing 625 dps thats required to beat the reset. All dps classes could probably use the same fight and formula to calculate their dps.

 

As I mentioned in the other post where you posted this, there is a flaw in which anni specced marauders will be handicapped by their inability to use beserk (a major factor to their dps output) due to that it buffs party members and thus, places a "punishment of destiny" on the mara, preventing any dmg to their target.

[selectah]

What I'm trying to piece together is whether Malice is needed on the Carnage spec.

Since we're already getting 100% crit on our only important force attack, the scream, wouldn't those 3 points be better spent elsewhere?

 

Ataru procs are "Force attacks" too, and they crit independently from your weapon dmg.

[naitee]

on annihilate build, why do you put 3 points in malice instead narrowed hatred (3% accuracy) if below you say accuracy > crit?

 

I think it's like 3-4 crit/surge mods changes to accuracy/crit mods to compensate that 3% accuracy...

[Kenshinth]

As I mentioned in the other post where you posted this, there is a flaw in which anni specced marauders will be handicapped by their inability to use beserk (a major factor to their dps output) due to that it buffs party members and thus, places a "punishment of destiny" on the mara, preventing any dmg to their target.

 

Use Berserk right as someone is clicking the console. Only way to get around it I understand the problem u describe but as of right now its the only boss we concluded we can test our dps effectively without so many other factors.

[Shadinaxx]

Use Berserk right as someone is clicking the console. Only way to get around it I understand the problem u describe but as of right now its the only boss we concluded we can test our dps effectively without so many other factors.

 

I'm not a fan of anni, but I agreed to give it a week's worth of raiding to test run it. The things I found were that as the only marauder in the raid (for 8 mans), I have to be in a dps group for maximum effeciancy, and the buffs I give are only for the dps, so the extra heals (dps should not be taking any extra dmg that isn't taken care of with the standard healing rotations already) are wasted, the 10% defense is wasted because I'm not in the group with the tanks, etc.

 

I know it's a great encounter to test dps parsing, especially if you are unable to use a fraps'd clip to record 5 minutes of dps (the boss sizes make catching the numbers very difficult at times, especially with knockbacks, and movement).

 

TLDR; Having run both anni and Carnage in normal and hard mode raids, carnage has better damage (based on combat parses with recorded videos and time stamps), altho the anni spec FEELS like more dps because you see consistantly higher numbers from the dots (even when you are away from the target).

 

I still have a full raid lockout with anni coming up tho, so I'll rerun the numbers just to make sure and I'll post the results. Also, I'll try the berserk just before activating the console.

 

Regarding the console trick: Have you tried popping beserk, then popping frenzy and bloodthirst as well, so that you can use both?

[Caliban_Thule]

on annihilate build, why do you put 3 points in malice instead narrowed hatred (3% accuracy) if below you say accuracy > crit?

 

I think it's like 3-4 crit/surge mods changes to accuracy/crit mods to compensate that 3% accuracy...

 

My gear is average, and I have over the hit cap. As your gear gets better, you will need the accuracy talent less

[Outcry_Spite]

so your frapsing the encounter, then adding the numbers together and then dividing the time to postulate your dps? I'll wait for actual combat logs thank you.

[Dranmarth]

When it says we should get Accuracy to 110%, does that mean base accuracy or special attack accuracy to 110%? My current base accuracy is 106.34% and my special attack accuracy is 116.34%, should I get some more accuracy or do I need to drop it 6%?

[Kibaken]

As I mentioned in the other post where you posted this, there is a flaw in which anni specced marauders will be handicapped by their inability to use beserk (a major factor to their dps output) due to that it buffs party members and thus, places a "punishment of destiny" on the mara, preventing any dmg to their target.

 

I actually didn't think of Annihilation's handicap on that fight. Interesting. The only other thing I can think of then is to just fight a normal elite or something you can kill yourself.

 

 

What I'm trying to piece together is whether Malice is needed on the Carnage spec.

Since we're already getting 100% crit on our only important force attack, the scream, wouldn't those 3 points be better spent elsewhere?

 

Ataru procs = Force attacks.

 

 

When it says we should get Accuracy to 110%, does that mean base accuracy or special attack accuracy to 110%? My current base accuracy is 106.34% and my special attack accuracy is 116.34%, should I get some more accuracy or do I need to drop it 6%?

 

Special attacks are automatically 'hit' capped. They have a base Accuracy of 100% and can only be dodged/parried/deflected. You need to reach (the theorized number of) 110% Main-hand Special Accuracy to be Accuracy capped. Because there is so much Accuracy on end-game gear it's possible to either bypass Narrowed Hatred or take it and remove Accuracy on gear.

 

 

so your frapsing the encounter, then adding the numbers together and then dividing the time to postulate your dps? I'll wait for actual combat logs thank you.

 

Infernal Council is a fight where you're forced to fight other players by yourself. Each player has one target they have to kill (at least on 8man).

 

Because of this, you can take the health of the mobs (75k) and divide it by the amount of time it takes you to kill them (enrage timer is 2min) to get a ballpark DPS figure. After timing mine I got it down in 47 seconds, so that's roughly 1596 DPS.

[Dranmarth]

Special attacks are automatically 'hit' capped. They have a base Accuracy of 100% and can only be dodged/parried/deflected. You need to reach (the theorized number of) 110% Main-hand Special Accuracy to be Accuracy capped. Because there is so much Accuracy on end-game gear it's possible to either bypass Narrowed Hatred or take it and remove Accuracy on gear.

 

So the special attack accuracy is what we need to get to 110%, which means I need to drop some accuracy from enhancements from the daily quests and pickup the other dps ones, cause I'm just waiting stats by being at 116% special accuracy, got it

[Heartless-hate]

Hi Kiba,

 

I have to say that i strongly disagree with your carnage spec

 

this is the purely pve spec:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZGGrbddMoMsZG.1 (two free points)

 

unbount, displacement, and overwhelm are purely fluff talents on boss fights (as you pointed out, you cant root a boss). unbount is situational, and i have not encountered a boss mechanics where a snare is a factor (correct me if i am wrong). the reason to take accu even though there is alot of it out there is this: ataru procs can proc from offhand (this is based on the discription, i have no hard evidence to prove this). as such, accuracy not only increases our armor pen. (to put it wow terms) but also gets us closer to 75% chance to proc ataru hits on each round of attack, with the buff from carnage (this is the theoretical cap for the chance to proc it in each round, given a 100% chance to hit with off hand which i dont know if thats even possible with current gear).

 

my point is this: this talent spec maximizes dps, as ALL talents taken increase dps (some more than others.

[Kibaken]

Hi Kiba,

 

I have to say that i strongly disagree with your carnage spec

 

this is the purely pve spec:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZGGrbddMoMsZG.1 (two free points)

 

unbount, displacement, and overwhelm are purely fluff talents on boss fights (as you pointed out, you cant root a boss). unbount is situational, and i have not encountered a boss mechanics where a snare is a factor (correct me if i am wrong). the reason to take accu even though there is alot of it out there is this: ataru procs can proc from offhand (this is based on the discription, i have no hard evidence to prove this). as such, accuracy not only increases our armor pen. (to put it wow terms) but also gets us closer to 75% chance to proc ataru hits on each round of attack, with the buff from carnage (this is the theoretical cap for the chance to proc it in each round, given a 100% chance to hit with off hand which i dont know if thats even possible with current gear).

 

my point is this: this talent spec maximizes dps, as ALL talents taken increase dps (some more than others.

 

Your reading comprehension is lax. The reason I don't take Cloak of Carnage is because I don't believe in turning defensive cooldowns into DPS ones. I personally take Overwhelm instead to give myself a bit of world PvP utility. In certain situations Cloak of Carnage will give you more DPS; in others it's useless.

 

If you look at when Ataru procs hit they come at the end/after the GCD. Just sit and slowly spam Assault on a mob - You get 3 swings then a separate Ataru hit at the end - not inbetween. As far as what hand does the swing I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I have yet to see one miss.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Kibaken