Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

[Bloodymoon]

Btw, Ataru really seems to be a Force Attack. Try it yourself; the result should be the tooltip in skills:

 

(Bonus DMG Force / 4,34) * 2 + 25

Edited January 14, 2012 by Bloodymoon

[Pappus]

Just curious, but would the primary focus for annihilation not be to keep deadly saber dot stacksize on 3?

 

When you open up with 3 melee attacks after deadly saber your dot will fall off and you miss free ticks of e.g. single stacksize ticking.

 

Never played annihilation, but the deadly saber buff holds 15 seconds so we should be able to keep 3 stacks up for a very good amount of time.

 

Charge(+3r)-> Deadly Saber ->(1.5s -3r) Battering Assault (1 stack 3s +6r)-> Force Scream(4.5s -3r) -> Rupture (2 stacks 6s -2r)-> Smash -> (7.5s-1r)-> Ravage( 3 stacks 10.5s) until charge is ready trying to get the rage for annihilate and then you can literally repeat the whole process

 

Now it wouldn't really matter for the time being you will have 3 dot ticks up until next deadly saber is up and then I think when you apply it again the dot will just continue straight on 3 stacks?

 

If I am wrong, then I am wrong as I said I never played it - it is just a thing that I would naturally try if I was that spec.

 

Good work!

[ArmedOmalley]

Ive used Anni to lvl to 50 and this help alot

by any chance tho i would like to see the information about Rage. i dunno if you just posted it elsewhere between the 25 pages and decided not too.

 

just asking

 

thanks for the great info!

[sabresandiego]

Hey did you do the mach 5 massacre guide for dragon age 2? Remember me? I made the vanguard guide there.

[Kibaken]

Hey did you do the mach 5 massacre guide for dragon age 2? Remember me? I made the vanguard guide there.

 

There's another Mach 5 Massacre? I thought I came up with this D:

 

 

 

Just curious, but would the primary focus for annihilation not be to keep deadly saber dot stacksize on 3?

 

When you open up with 3 melee attacks after deadly saber your dot will fall off and you miss free ticks of e.g. single stacksize ticking.

 

Never played annihilation, but the deadly saber buff holds 15 seconds so we should be able to keep 3 stacks up for a very good amount of time.

 

Charge(+3r)-> Deadly Saber ->(1.5s -3r) Battering Assault (1 stack 3s +6r)-> Force Scream(4.5s -3r) -> Rupture (2 stacks 6s -2r)-> Smash -> (7.5s-1r)-> Ravage( 3 stacks 10.5s) until charge is ready trying to get the rage for annihilate and then you can literally repeat the whole process

 

Now it wouldn't really matter for the time being you will have 3 dot ticks up until next deadly saber is up and then I think when you apply it again the dot will just continue straight on 3 stacks?

 

If I am wrong, then I am wrong as I said I never played it - it is just a thing that I would naturally try if I was that spec.

 

Good work!

 

 

You don't want to use Scream as Annihilation. The best thing to do is Charge, Deadly Saber, Battering Assault, Rupture, Annihilate. Wasting Rage on anything else before that isn't the best thing to do. Getting Rupture and 3 Deadly Sabers rolling as quick as possible and as often as possible is Annihilation's whole goal.

 

 

As for the Rage guide, when I get around to playing Rage a little bit more I'll get around to posting it.

[BarcodeX]

You don't want to use Scream as Annihilation. The best thing to do is Charge, Deadly Saber, Battering Assault, Rupture, Annihilate. Wasting Rage on anything else before that isn't the best thing to do. Getting Rupture and 3 Deadly Sabers rolling as quick as possible and as often as possible is Annihilation's whole goal.

 

QFT. The ONLY time I ever use Force Scream is to finish off an opponent (assuming Deadly Throw is on CD). Sometimes Force Scream + Deadly Throw is a great combo against someone with barely any life that has some type of shield around them; however, that is 6 Rage used so it usually doesn't happen for me.

[Pappus]

You guys are contradicting yourselves. I show you a way to have deadly saber dot on 3 stacks for 100% uptime compared to 6 second uptime and you say no because force scream is not so good?

[Retik]

When you say accuracy to 110%, is that special attacks or basic?

[Kibaken]

When you say accuracy to 110%, is that special attacks or basic?

 

Special.

[Duopggod]

I'm using the Anni spec and I was wondering at what % should we focus on surge over crit chance? I currently have my crit chance at 29%, but I feel like I should start trying to add more surge as well. Edited January 15, 2012 by Duopggod

[Kibaken]

I'm using the Anni spec and I was wondering at what % should we focus on surge over crit chance? I currently have my crit chance at 29%, but I feel like I should start trying to add more surge as well.

 

Surge's worth is directly related to the amount of Crit you have. You have to add in all of the crit increases from talents - including from 5 stacks of Juyo - and all your buffs.

 

I would say the best bet is to go for both in about equal amounts. The more Crit you have the better Surge gets, so stacking both at the same time is beneficial.

[sfthirteen]

Thanks for the guide, man. It's really been helping my build. I can solo most 2+ heroics now.

[Outcry_Spite]

I'm curious, which is superior in a raid scenario, Anh. or Carnage? Carnage seems unpractical in comparison with anh. I'd like some clarification if at all possible. Thanks for the awesome post.

[Kibaken]

I'm curious, which is superior in a raid scenario, Anh. or Carnage? Carnage seems unpractical in comparison with anh. I'd like some clarification if at all possible. Thanks for the awesome post.

 

They both do fine. Without hard parses (apparently self combat logs/damage meters are coming soon, which will definitely help) it's hard to tell which one is "better."

 

Annihilation is definitely steadier, but the burst Carnage has hits hard enough to the point where I'm pretty sure it makes up for the lackluster steady damage.

 

Carnage gets Defensive Roll as a raid damage buffer and Annihilation gets its heals.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kibaken

[KelarNok]

Does anybody know if ACT works with Star Wars yet? or has it not been applicable?

[Daxer]

great job mate couldnt have explained it better myself!

[Leonalis]

Hey Kiba, do you have any Information about Dimishining Return? In the german Guide they speak again and again about Dimishining Return by the Stats except Power

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695#theory

 

here

Edited January 15, 2012 by Leonalis

[Pappus]

I let a friend of mine test the rotation for me and it is absolutely possible to have Deadly Saber dot ticking 100% of a fight with 3 stacksizes unless you need to heavy move of course.

 

Rotation is:

 

Force Charge->Deadly Saber-> Battering Assault-> Smash-> Rupture-> Deadly Throw-> Annihilation.

 

If you do not have enough Rage for annihilation, then use 2 ticks of ravage if that is on cd or you open your fight up use deadly throw.

 

You mess up once and the dot falls off, if you keep going then your dot wil stay on 3 stacks and tick like madness as long as you can keep up.

 

You can change the rotation however you want the only pattern you have to follow is:

 

Deadly Saber -> Melee attack -> non melee or force attack-> melee attack-> non melee or force attack -> melee attack into repetition.

 

Enjoy your dps.

[Kibaken]

I let a friend of mine test the rotation for me and it is absolutely possible to have Deadly Saber dot ticking 100% of a fight with 3 stacksizes unless you need to heavy move of course.

 

Rotation is:

 

Force Charge->Deadly Saber-> Battering Assault-> Smash-> Rupture-> Deadly Throw-> Annihilation.

 

If you do not have enough Rage for annihilation, then use 2 ticks of ravage if that is on cd or you open your fight up use deadly throw.

 

You mess up once and the dot falls off, if you keep going then your dot wil stay on 3 stacks and tick like madness as long as you can keep up.

 

You can change the rotation however you want the only pattern you have to follow is:

 

Deadly Saber -> Melee attack -> non melee or force attack-> melee attack-> non melee or force attack -> melee attack into repetition.

 

Enjoy your dps.

 

 

After testing it out myself and going over the Annihilation discussion at sithwarrior.com using Smash and Deadly throw in a rotation is a waste of Rage. I reworded Annihilation's "goal" so to speak as to maximizing a 3 stack's up-time to avoid any confusion.

 

Edit: I fixed mah monitor.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kibaken

[Kibaken]

Hey Kiba, do you have any Information about Dimishining Return? In the german Guide they speak again and again about Dimishining Return by the Stats except Power

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695#theory

 

here

 

 

I'll say right now I'm really not that amazing at math. I know Surge "caps" at around 50% Surge (100% critical damage bonus) and the DRs are very heavy at that point. As for Crit I'm going to assume similar things are true.

 

According to someone at sithwarrior.com, someone on Reddit did the math and it becomes too expensive to get Crit over 22% and Surge over 85%. I'm going to assume he means we lose out on too much of other stats, however he doesn't provide the source and I can't find it.

 

It does kind of go along with my theory that the stock gear will probably be BIS, but I'm not really sure other than that.

[Tycholiz]

Hey Kibaken,

 

First off, great post, I've learned quite a bit about how to maximize my efficiency as a marauder. My game play has already improved while I finish up the leveling portion of the game. Just a few questions about a few abilities you haven't mentioned here. This can be assumed as combat for regular mobs, hence why stun proceed abilities are here. As follows,

 

Retaliation - Should we use this ability when it is up? the damage is lower than massacre, but IS off the global cooldown. Plus it cant be parried or dodged. What is the usage for this ability?

 

Savage Kick - I've also noticed that you haven't mentioned this ability. Is it worth the CD to use this? the damage seems quite good, so i imagine it is a no brainer to use this ability when it is available?

 

Pommel Strike - Same as Savage Kick.

 

Force Choke - When is the best time to utilize this ability? It seems like the damage output isn't as great as the output I have if I just do my normal rotation. Whats the scoop on this one?

 

Also, A couple questions.

 

1. Force Camouflage - How is this ability supposed to function exactly? It seems to me, that by the wording of the tooltip, it is supposed to basically make you vanish, as a rogue would, and remain stealthed for 4 seconds. I understand the threat portion of this ability, but the tooltip says I will be difficult to detect, yet enemies can see me at the same aggro distance with it activated than with it not.

 

2. Predation vs. Berserk - I'm quite confused on these two abilities. Predation, on one hand, converts 30 stacks of Fury into 50% increased movement speed and a 10% defense buff for 10 seconds. Berserk, on the other hand converts 30 stacks to reduce the rage cost of massacre by 1 rage and reduce its global cooldown by half a second. (I'm Carnage by the way, obviously).

 

3. Massacre + Blood Frenzy + Towering Rage + Force Scream - Now, this is where I'm convinced I'm experiencing a bug. According to the tooltip, Massacre says it will trigger an Ataru form strike when you use the ability. According to the talent Blood Frenzy, my Ataru form strikes (which are caused by Massacre also) will cause Blood Frenzy for 6 seconds. Additionally, the talent Towering Rage states that when I have Blood Frenzy active, my Force Scream will guarantee a critical strike, but it I experience no greater critical change rate in game. Am I missing something, or is this a bug?

 

Those are the major concerns I am having with the class so far. I appreciate you reading and look forward to a response if you are willing

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: If anyone is able to provide me with an explanation for the questions I have posted here, I'd much appreciate them too!

Edited January 16, 2012 by Tycholiz

[Kibaken]

Hey Kibaken,

 

First off, great post, I've learned quite a bit about how to maximize my efficiency as a marauder. My game play has already improved while I finish up the leveling portion of the game. Just a few questions about a few abilities you haven't mentioned here. This can be assumed as combat for regular mobs, hence why stun proceed abilities are here. As follows,

 

Retaliation - Should we use this ability when it is up? the damage is lower than massacre, but IS off the global cooldown. Plus it cant be parried or dodged. What is the usage for this ability?

 

Savage Kick - I've also noticed that you haven't mentioned this ability. Is it worth the CD to use this? the damage seems quite good, so i imagine it is a no brainer to use this ability when it is available?

 

Pommel Strike - Same as Savage Kick.

 

Force Choke - When is the best time to utilize this ability? It seems like the damage output isn't as great as the output I have if I just do my normal rotation. Whats the scoop on this one?

 

Also, A couple questions.

 

1. Force Camouflage - How is this ability supposed to function exactly? It seems to me, that by the wording of the tooltip, it is supposed to basically make you vanish, as a rogue would, and remain stealthed for 4 seconds. I understand the threat portion of this ability, but the tooltip says I will be difficult to detect, yet enemies can see me at the same aggro distance with it activated than with it not.

 

2. Predation vs. Berserk - I'm quite confused on these two abilities. Predation, on one hand, converts 30 stacks of Fury into 50% increased movement speed and a 10% defense buff for 10 seconds. Berserk, on the other hand converts 30 stacks to reduce the rage cost of massacre by 1 rage and reduce its global cooldown by half a second. (I'm Carnage by the way, obviously).

 

3. Massacre + Blood Frenzy + Towering Rage + Force Scream - Now, this is where I'm convinced I'm experiencing a bug. According to the tooltip, Massacre says it will trigger an Ataru form strike when you use the ability. According to the talent Blood Frenzy, my Ataru form strikes (which are caused by Massacre also) will cause Blood Frenzy for 6 seconds. Additionally, the talent Towering Rage states that when I have Blood Frenzy active, my Force Scream will guarantee a critical strike, but it I experience no greater critical change rate in game. Am I missing something, or is this a bug?

 

Those are the major concerns I am having with the class so far. I appreciate you reading and look forward to a response if you are willing

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: If anyone is able to provide me with an explanation for the questions I have posted here, I'd much appreciate them too!

 

Retaliation - Once you get high enough in your tree if you have Cloak of Annihilation (which is lack-luster, imo) you can use it in PvP, however that talent and Retaliation in general have no place in a PvE rotation.

 

Savage Kick/Pommel Strike - Not usable on Elite or Champion mobs or in PvP, but very useful for dispatching Weak/Normal/Strong enemies.

 

Force Choke - As Carnage and Annihilation you'll only be using Choke as an interrupt/CC. As Rage you'll want to alternate between Crush and Choke to get 4 stacks of Shockwave.

 

 

In PvE you'll find yourself using Fury for Berserk and Bloodthirst. Predation's movement is amazing for PvP getaways and on some heavy-movement (Gharj) Ops fights.

 

It isn't a stealth, it's a Camouflage. If you get too close to enemies while out of combat you'll aggro them. It's primary use is an aggro dump in PvE and a target drop/get away ability in PvP in addition to whatever you spec into (Phantom or Unbound).

 

Your critical chance doesn't change in your character pane. If you have Ataru on and use Massacre followed by Scream it will crit. Always always always barring your Ataru strike missing/getting parried.

 

The best rotation is Massacre -> Gore -> Scream -> Ravage for maximum Scream and Ravage damage.

[Sayc]

Hey Kibaken,

 

First off, great post, I've learned quite a bit about how to maximize my efficiency as a marauder. My game play has already improved while I finish up the leveling portion of the game. Just a few questions about a few abilities you haven't mentioned here. This can be assumed as combat for regular mobs, hence why stun proceed abilities are here. As follows,

 

Retaliation - Should we use this ability when it is up? the damage is lower than massacre, but IS off the global cooldown. Plus it cant be parried or dodged. What is the usage for this ability?

 

Savage Kick - I've also noticed that you haven't mentioned this ability. Is it worth the CD to use this? the damage seems quite good, so i imagine it is a no brainer to use this ability when it is available?

 

Pommel Strike - Same as Savage Kick.

 

Force Choke - When is the best time to utilize this ability? It seems like the damage output isn't as great as the output I have if I just do my normal rotation. Whats the scoop on this one?

 

Also, A couple questions.

 

1. Force Camouflage - How is this ability supposed to function exactly? It seems to me, that by the wording of the tooltip, it is supposed to basically make you vanish, as a rogue would, and remain stealthed for 4 seconds. I understand the threat portion of this ability, but the tooltip says I will be difficult to detect, yet enemies can see me at the same aggro distance with it activated than with it not.

 

2. Predation vs. Berserk - I'm quite confused on these two abilities. Predation, on one hand, converts 30 stacks of Fury into 50% increased movement speed and a 10% defense buff for 10 seconds. Berserk, on the other hand converts 30 stacks to reduce the rage cost of massacre by 1 rage and reduce its global cooldown by half a second. (I'm Carnage by the way, obviously).

 

3. Massacre + Blood Frenzy + Towering Rage + Force Scream - Now, this is where I'm convinced I'm experiencing a bug. According to the tooltip, Massacre says it will trigger an Ataru form strike when you use the ability. According to the talent Blood Frenzy, my Ataru form strikes (which are caused by Massacre also) will cause Blood Frenzy for 6 seconds. Additionally, the talent Towering Rage states that when I have Blood Frenzy active, my Force Scream will guarantee a critical strike, but it I experience no greater critical change rate in game. Am I missing something, or is this a bug?

 

Those are the major concerns I am having with the class so far. I appreciate you reading and look forward to a response if you are willing

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: If anyone is able to provide me with an explanation for the questions I have posted here, I'd much appreciate them too!

 

I don't like retaliation. Rage is better spent elsewhere, IMO, and it has issues firing off.

 

You're correct regarding savage kick/pommel strike.

 

The deal with force choke(for non-rage spec) is CC, not damage. Use it while fighting an elite or something, and you get a free few thousand damage between force choke and your companion. Or a quick breather for quinn to catch up on heals. For rage spec, its important for getting the shockwave buff.

 

1. The stealth doesn't really do anything in PvE. Its main use is an aggro dump. In PvP though, it works exactly like a vanish.

 

2. Not sure what your question is here. You seem to have aptly described the two.

 

3. Bug, you might be missing something, I'm not sure. You again have correctly described it though, so I dunno what the issue is. It works just fine for me, and I haven't heard of anything like that, so I'll leave that for others.

[Plyssken]

When my Gore finishes his cooldown but ravage its 5s-6s from being avaiable, should i use Gore right away for Massacre and Force scream or should i wait?

[Kibaken]

When my Gore finishes his cooldown but ravage its 5s-6s from being avaiable, should i use Gore right away for Massacre and Force scream or should i wait?

 

When you think about it 6 seconds is only 4 GCDs. Focusing Ravage around Gore is pretty crucial. Using Gore and Scream in that 4 GCDs and then waiting for both to come around again is going to waste more time without a Ravage than waiting the 4 to use Gore/Scream/Ravage.