Leonalis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) There's debate on whether or not Ravage should be used. Its priority comes under all your other abilities and the window where it is Viable to use is quite short - only when everything is off CD. You can either try to weave it in or not and I doubt it will hurt. . Can sbdy tell me how the Situation now is for Ravage? Edited January 12, 2012 by Leonalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithBanshee Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 About time this became a sticky. I've been using this guide since I switched from my Inquisitor to a Marauder, and it is a damn fine piece of work. Thanks for all your effort Kiba, and congrats on the sticky. Now I just need my Marauder to get to 40 so I can pick up Massacre... Anyone here switch from Carnage to Annihilation and found they liked it so much more? I'm not sure if this was Kiba's case or not. Been toying with the idea of giving Anni a try post-40, but I really, really like the fast-paced button-mashing priority system for Carnage. Problem is, it rarely works as well in PvP as it does in PvE. Anni seems like it'd be a lot more successful (for me) for PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xekron Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks for this. Switched to Rage from Anni at level 40 and although I've been loving it, I think it's time I give Anni another shot since I never got the chance to actually use the Annihilate skill in my earlier rotation. Edited January 12, 2012 by Xekron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archzai Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Smash is unbelievably good for leveling, probably hands down the best. You can basically focus on the strong mob in a pack and just use smash to one hit kill all the regulars. I definitely recommend people trying it I HATED my Marauder from Level 1-40 because i was Annihilate spec, and because it takes so long to get all the DoTS onto it. (Marauder is definitely good for long drawn out PvE bosses). Whereas for Rage, the damage is very front ended and very fast to execute. Rage spec for leveling was a really nice refreshing change and made me enjoy marauder again. PvP, hands down the best. Doing 3.8k dmg crits to everyone around you is unparalleled by any other Marauder spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 About time this became a sticky. I've been using this guide since I switched from my Inquisitor to a Marauder, and it is a damn fine piece of work. Thanks for all your effort Kiba, and congrats on the sticky. Now I just need my Marauder to get to 40 so I can pick up Massacre... Anyone here switch from Carnage to Annihilation and found they liked it so much more? I'm not sure if this was Kiba's case or not. Been toying with the idea of giving Anni a try post-40, but I really, really like the fast-paced button-mashing priority system for Carnage. Problem is, it rarely works as well in PvP as it does in PvE. Anni seems like it'd be a lot more successful (for me) for PvP. This project, so to speak, was actually started as a Carnage guide. While writing it I found I was actually having fun and then decided to expand it to the entire class. Annihilation and Rage both get extremely hyped up because of massive Smash crits and the self heals and I'll admit that Carnage doesn't have anything that really stands out and makes it scream (no pun intended) "this is really fun." Its game play style is very fun and I encourage people to try it out for that reason. Can sbdy tell me how the Situation now is for Ravage? You need just ask. Unfortunately it follows more/less the same rules as Vicious Slash does without the Rage requirement, but to put it simply: If every one of your skills will still be on CD for the next 3 seconds, Vicious Slash refreshing Rupture is still on CD and you have enough (I think it's 7) Rage for your entire rotation once it comes off CD you can use Ravage. The window is so small and precise that if done even a little wrong it will probably be a DPS to lose it. I was just asked to translate this guide into Sentinel. If anyone can look for a translation of Marauder skills to Sentinel skills while I'm away today I'll give you a cookie and credit for helping me when I translate it over. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thx Kiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichinoez Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hey Kiba can you explain why you don't put any points into 3% more acc as Annihilation spec if the most important stat is accuracy.. And to get it to 110% seems impossible with the gear you can get.. I'm still wondering if anyone has an answer to this kinda confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxRodeo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Great post keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I'm still wondering if anyone has an answer to this kinda confusing When I sat down to make that previous post I meant to answer this, I apologize. Long story short the 110% has been, for the most part, pulled out of everyone's *** as a damn good guestimate of where the Accuracy cap is. Basically, because Annihilation uses Charge so frequently Enraged Charge is an invaluable talent. That's 2 points down the drain. Due to all of our bleeds being Force damage, Malice is extremely useful. Unfortunately there's not much math to back it up, so I'm going to go with the old standard: if you find yourself getting parried/dodged a lot in raids, take up Narrowed Hatred. Getting 10% Accuracy should be relatively simple, otherwise. Losing out on the amount of Crit needed to be Sacrificed to get 10% Accuracy will be more than made up for with Malice (a whopping 6%). Edited January 12, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imasithbanana Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 When I sat down to make that previous post I meant to answer this, I apologize. Long story short the 110% has been, for the most part, pulled out of everyone's *** as a damn good guestimate of where the Accuracy cap is. Basically, because Annihilation uses Charge so frequently Enraged Charge is an invaluable talent. That's 2 points down the drain. Due to all of our bleeds being Force damage, Malice is extremely useful. Unfortunately there's not much math to back it up, so I'm going to go with the old standard: if you find yourself getting parried/dodged a lot in raids, take up Narrowed Hatred. Getting 10% Accuracy should be relatively simple, otherwise. Losing out on the amount of Crit needed to be Sacrificed to get 10% Accuracy will be more than made up for with Malice (a whopping 6%). Is that based off being lvl 50? I'm sitting at 30 with an accuracy of around 92.xxxx% Everything I have gotten or moded has been adding Str/End/Crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Is that based off being lvl 50? I'm sitting at 30 with an accuracy of around 92.xxxx% Everything I have gotten or moded has been adding Str/End/Crit. This guide is more/less based around level 50. I'm Carnage and, at 50 with Ataru off, I have 113% special accuracy. 3% of that is from Narrowed Hatred, the rest from gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It covers well the annihilation spec. I use Zandermill's thread for the Rage one. I wonder if the secondary stat priority stays the same. I think not. Since we have assured crits, I tend to favour power over anything. Keeping in mind that I'm not level 50 yet and that I'm rubbish at theorycrafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Is the difference between Carnage and Anni damage actually close? or is Anni far more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) How is Accuracy/Power > Surge/Crit? I'm at 106% hit and 383 bonus damage(68 from power) but my crit chance is 27% and crit multiplier 66%. It seems like my crit/surge is really suffering from having ot put so many stats in accuracy and i don't even get how 83 bonus damage is better than a higher chance to double the damage of all my hits. Edited January 13, 2012 by Retik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) How is Accuracy/Power > Surge/Crit? I'm at 106% hit and 383 bonus damage(68 from power) but my crit chance is 27% and crit multiplier 66%. It seems like my crit/surge is really suffering from having ot put so many stats in accuracy and i don't even get how 83 bonus damage is better than a higher chance to double the damage of all my hits. The actual numerical difference between Carnage and Annihilation is currently unknown, but I have a feeling they're close enough to where the difference is negligible. Accuracy to our hit cap is the most important stat so we don't waste Rage/a GCD on a parry or dodge. Following that, I value Crit/Surge higher than Power for Annihilation but put Power ahead of both for Carnage. There are no numbers behind these choices, they just make the most sense to me. As I've said before, I have a feeling all 3 specs will want a balance of Crit/Surge/Power and not stack as much of one as possible. Power and Surge do similar things differently. One increases the base and one increases the multiplier. Since Carnage has an instant-crit ability, I put Crit's value naturally lower and, as such, Surge will be less important as well. By increasing the base damage of all our abilities we help make up for that lack of Surge. By contrast, for Annihilation I value Crit/Surge much more because of the innate Crit and crit damage bonus the tree has for bleeds. By maximizing Crit and Surge to insure the majority of your bleed ticks are Crits you're making the most use out of the large amount of Surge you have. As I said, though, I have a strong feeling gear is itemized the way it is for a reason and we won't find ourselves extracting/replacing mods often if at all. The stock mods will probably go a very long way for either spec. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 How far is Sundering Assault (Juggernaunt) [..and reduces the target's armor by 4% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Builds 2 rage.] useful for us in terms of accuary? I means that's 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 How far is Sundering Assault (Juggernaunt) [..and reduces the target's armor by 4% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Builds 2 rage.] useful for us in terms of accuary? I means that's 20% Armor has absolutely nothing to do with Accuracy and if this many people think "reduces defense" means Armor Penetration then they need to change the wording of the tooltip. The only Armor Pen comes from Gore or Shii-Cho form if specced into it in Rage. Accuracy over 100% reduces the defense of our target, reducing the chance for them to dodge or parry our attacks. In WoW terms, Accuracy = Hit + Expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ah ok - In german ist the Tooltip the same Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowqz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All special attacks (everything but Assault) have a base 100% chance to hit. It is currently theorized that bosses have a 10% Defense chance (parry/deflect). By increasing our Accuracy to 110% we negate the Defense chance for our special abilities (Ravage, Gore, Massacre, Scream, etc can no longer miss). what is this based on? has anyone tested it or is it just a theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiseryMachine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sorry if this was asked earlier, but is it efficient to have Rupture part of the Deadly Saber buff? Rupture already gives us a DoT (bleed?). Does the bleed from Deadly Saber stack on top of Rupture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) All special attacks (everything but Assault) have a base 100% chance to hit. It is currently theorized that bosses have a 10% Defense chance (parry/deflect). By increasing our Accuracy to 110% we negate the Defense chance for our special abilities (Ravage, Gore, Massacre, Scream, etc can no longer miss). what is this based on? has anyone tested it or is it just a theory? I took that number from sithwarrior.com, and it's the current theorized Accuracy cap. I run with about 113% iirc and haven't seen a parry in ages except in PvP. Sorry if this was asked earlier, but is it efficient to have Rupture part of the Deadly Saber buff? Rupture already gives us a DoT (bleed?). Does the bleed from Deadly Saber stack on top of Rupture? Your next 3 attacks proc a separate bleed which stacks, so to speak, with Rupture. Best bet is to Charge, Deadly Saber, Battering Assault, Rupture, Annihilate. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Updated Carnage stat weights because I'm shortsighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 On AoE? Yes. Vicious Slash is better Damage/Rage and, as such, should be used instead of Smash. Using that on a single target is just dumb if you're not Rage. Saving your Rage for Annihilate/Deadly Saber/Rupture is much more important and will do much more damage in the long run. You're so wrong. Smash does 1200~ dmg at the cost of 1 rage while VS does 1400~ dmg at the cost of two rage. Using Smash on cooldown is a must for max dps. PLus it helps build fury faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) You're so wrong. Smash does 1200~ dmg at the cost of 1 rage while VS does 1400~ dmg at the cost of two rage. Using Smash on cooldown is a must for max dps. PLus it helps build fury faster. The main reason you'd even want to do Vicious Slash is when Annihilate is on CD and Rupture is still cooling down as well. That Rage, imo, is better suited to get Rupture off CD. If Annihilate is on CD and Rupture is off CD but you have 3+ seconds left on it, Ravage would actually probably be a better filler. It's really weird :[ Edited January 14, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) The main reason you'd even want to do Vicious Slash is when Annihilate is on CD and Rupture is still cooling down as well. That Rage, imo, is better suited to get Rupture off CD. If Annihilate is on CD and Rupture is off CD but you have 3+ seconds left on it, Ravage would actually probably be a better filler. It's really weird :[ I prioritize everything over Ravage unless it's being used right after deadly saber. For the simple fact it takes forever to channel and doesn't spend rage. Thats time I could be building fury which should be the number one focus for all SW. Smash is damn near free dps, I can't think of a single reason not to use it on cooldown. Outside of putting dots up on the mob. Edited January 14, 2012 by Nmaharg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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