LeonBraun Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Until then, kids can still buy packs of Pokemon cards also without having to get and 18 or 21 year olds to do it for them. Edited December 12, 2013 by LeonBraun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 It's gambling. Technically it may skirt some definitions of "gambling", but to deny that it is is lunacy. can we also say that stating it is such is stupidity? since I have in previous posts listed the definition in ALL cases that does not match in any shape or form "gambling" Now the MAIN (not only) problem with saying gambling is "illegal" is wrong. UNREGULATED gambling is illegal. You can go apply for a license pay the fess, and open any gambling establishment you choose. Why the need for regulation..well main reason for that is TAXES, yes people the government(s) could give 3 hoots about what you do in your daily life, they couldn't care less about addictions, or what not. they DO care about taxes and if you don't pay..they find you. Why is selling moonshine illegal..no law's against making alcohol for personal consumption. nope its the unregulated SALE of alcohol..why is it illegal to sell it..cause you are not collecting taxes on it. Government will not care one iota about gambling here if there is no revenue to collect. since they are not making any money off of "gambling" there is nothing they can regulate or tax..thus they don't care. sorry snowflakes, government doesn't care what you do...unless it brings them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Disagreed. But only because technically, it's not gambling. Since Bioware doesn't have to speak to the spirit of the product, and only to the technicality of the law, then Bioware will remain in the right. Now if those laws should change, and those products are labeled as gambling by law makers, then Bioware WILL be in the wrong, and we'll all have to accept that, but until then. It's legal, and they don't have to answer to us. Wait...just because I call it what it is - GAMBLING - doesn't mean it's wrong of Bioware to do. I don't fault them one bit for selling people "chances" on obtaining rare loots for extra $ - they're a business, not a leader in morality and ethics. It's motivated by profit and "technically" they can claim it's "not gambling"...but only a fool would believe that it's NOT actually gambling. You aren't buying what you want, you're buying a CHANCE to get something you want (credits, speeder, armor, whatever)...hence it's very clearly gambling. Pretend it's not gambling if you like - but it is. It's also not wrong of Bioware to do it. They can and they'd be silly not to try to make extra $ this way. WE control how profitable the CM is...so far I think it's safe to assume that WE have shown them that it's well worth their time and investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Same thing I have done since their inception; ignore them. That makes me a bad subscriber though, doesn't it? Makes you a smart consumer, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Disagreed. But only because technically, it's not gambling. Since Bioware doesn't have to speak to the spirit of the product, and only to the technicality of the law, then Bioware will remain in the right. Now if those laws should change, and those products are labeled as gambling by law makers, then Bioware WILL be in the wrong, and we'll all have to accept that, but until then. It's legal, and they don't have to answer to us. see thats the part that people miss.. It used to be that the RAREs in the MTG packs were "valued" at around $5 you could spend your $3.95 buy a pack, take the rare, give it to the owner of the card shop and open packs until you or he said enough. So you were ALWAYS guaranteed a card that in general was worth the price of the pack until market became saturated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IStillWantMySWG Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Disagreed. But only because technically, it's not gambling. Since Bioware doesn't have to speak to the spirit of the product, and only to the technicality of the law, then Bioware will remain in the right. Now if those laws should change, and those products are labeled as gambling by law makers, then Bioware WILL be in the wrong, and we'll all have to accept that, but until then. It's legal, and they don't have to answer to us. If some1 takes them to court they will have to answer to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 sorry snowflakes, government doesn't care what you do...unless it brings them money.Tell that to the NSA. Right now, you're ALL suspects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Wait...just because I call it what it is - GAMBLING - doesn't mean it's wrong of Bioware to do. You calling it gambling, no matter how bombastically, does not make it gambling. If some1 takes them to court they will have to answer to us Well then do it, smart guy. Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudrath Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Reading many of the posts here, I came to the conclusion that a lot of the posters should first study basic psychology, sociology and marketing, then they'd understand why cash shops in games, as well as stuff like: -collectible cards-lottery-grinding mobs for rare drops and so on are all forms of gambling. It is also clear a lot of people do not have a clear idea of what constitutes value and how the same is perceived. And for the umpteenth time, CM packs are NOT based on a "grab bag" concept. You cannot touch the stuff inside the bag, you cannot have any kind of decision or influence on what you get from the bag aside from selecting which bag you want a computer to select a random item for you. The CM is more akin to a row of slot machines than grab bags - a series of differently labeled random number generators which you can select, not hoping that you'll get two apples and a peanut, but the jackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) It's gambling. There's really no way to skirt around that fact. Gambling:1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gambling?s=t 2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gamble Edited December 12, 2013 by Blackholeskipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Reading many of the posts here, I came to the conclusion that a lot of the posters should first study basic psychology, sociology and marketing, then they'd understand why cash shops in games, as well as stuff like: -collectible cards -lottery -grinding mobs for rare drops and so on are all forms of gambling. It is also clear a lot of people do not have a clear idea of what constitutes value and how the same is perceived. And for the umpteenth time, CM packs are NOT based on a "grab bag" concept. You cannot touch the stuff inside the bag, you cannot have any kind of decision or influence on what you get from the bag aside from selecting which bag you want a computer to select a random item for you. The CM is more akin to a row of slot machines than grab bags - a series of differently labeled random number generators which you can select, not hoping that you'll get two apples and a peanut, but the jackpot. Cartel Packs are the very definition of a Grab Bag, only it's pixels and not real items. If you buy a Pack, you know exactly what sort of items that you're going to get. There's no chance of loss. You're 'buying' something. Gambling entails risking money with a chance of no return whatsoever. Cartel Packs are not gambling, no matter how much you want it to be gambling. Sorry. You can't argue away reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Here're three nice definitions of the verb "to gamble" from m-w.com: 1. to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things 2. to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet 3. to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something None of those apply to buying cartel packs because you cannot lose. Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You calling it gambling, no matter how bombastically, does not make it gambling. No...nothing I say makes it "gambling". The chance factor is what makes it "gambling". gam·bling [gam-bling] Show IPA noun 1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Edited December 12, 2013 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 None of those apply to buying cartel packs because you cannot lose. You can't lose money? From your own post: "2. to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 No...nothing I say makes it "gambling". The chance factor is what makes it "gambling". Every single definition in there revolves around some form of 'risk' and there's no risk involved with Cartel Packs. None at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Every single definition in there revolves around some form of 'risk' and there's no risk involved with Cartel Packs. None at all. Read it again: the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) No...nothing I say makes it "gambling". The chance factor is what makes it "gambling". Even the definition you supply does not support your contention that it's gambling. There is no risk in buying cartel packs. You pay for a pack, you get a pack and it has stuff in it. End of story. Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Every single definition in there revolves around some form of 'risk' and there's no risk involved with Cartel Packs. None at all. Risk of losing money. Risk of not getting the items you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You can't lose money? From your own post: "2. to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet" Nope, you can't lose money because you have a handful of items in return for that money. You're not risking anything, you're 'buying' items. Of course, you're buying them without knowing what you're buying beforehand, but that's not a new thing, nor is it gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Even the definition you supply does not support your contention that it's gambling. There is no risk in buying cartel packs. You pay for a pack, you get a pack and it has stuff in it. End of story. Same for you: the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Even the definition you supply does not even support your contention that it's gambling. There is no risk in buying cartel packs. You pay for a pack, you get a pack and it has stuff in it. End of story. The definitions you posted support the fact that this is gambling. Edited December 12, 2013 by Blackholeskipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Risk of losing money. Risk of not getting the items you want. There is no risk of losing money. You pay for a virtual product and you get exactly that virtual product. The definitions you posted support that the fact that this is gambling. Clearly you are arguing just to argue now. Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Read it again: the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Okay, what part of Cartel Pack purchasing constitutes the 'game' part? How do you win this game? How do you lose this game? What are the rules to the game? Is it like dice? Poker? Is there a wild card? Do I always bet on black? What's the 'game of chance' connected with buying Cartel Packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Same for you: the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. It is not a game of chance. It is a grab bag. Your are guaranteed to receive a certain number of items, all of which are able to be used in-game. The items vary, but the chance of receiving items does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You can't lose money? From your own post: "2. to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet" You don't risk losing money. You are guaranteed to lose money, and you are guaranteed items in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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