Dumb things people do in PVP and why they are dumb

[Elusive_Thing]

Loads of good points, but as others have said as well, the 1/7/0 in ACW is up for debate. Every time I enter a Warzone I check my friend list and the instance list for people I know. This only works if it is an intra-faction, but I have spotted a few people I just flatout know will come and try a stealth cap. Heck, sometimes I can see one of the flying in with the speeder right when the match starts. Then I tell everyone in the group that our turret needs at least two people. I guard most of the times, but when I don't I will follow the "official" capper to the turret and make sure stealth cappers will have a tougher fight.

[HaoZhao]

1/7/0 for CW is stupid. You're giving them their node for free and they can slow yours to give you an immediately weaker position if mid isn't quickly capped. 2/5/1 is much smarter. Just need a few competent people mid to stall, which VERY many classes can do almost single handedly. 1) Quite often, you will end up with both sides. 2) If you don't get both sides, you will get your side faster. Respawns return to mid after they've done their part. As I said before, if they sent 7 mid against your 5, you just have to delay them. Which is very easy to do 7v5. You are guaranteed to have 1 quick node, 1 reinforcement, and possibly 2 nodes.

 

Sorry, while it's fun to read hero stories from bad hero assassins, all you've done is give away the middle. When I see people doing this, I clap in glee. It takes half as much effort to get that left node back as it does to take middle, so all you've done is make my job easier. Delaying in 7 on 5 is actually the worst strategy I've ever heard of. I'm tempted to edit my original post just to include this new entry.

 

First of all, they could send two people to the left node and then it would be 5 on 5 and you'd lose the node anyway. Too bad they won't give you medals for getting yourself killed more than anyone else. Secondly, 7 on 5 is not easy to maintain. Deaths in this situation will quickly result in a snowball effect. Once one person dies, the DPS players who killed him are going to move to someone else who will die even faster. The end result will be a wipe unless you were lucky enough to be PUG'd with significantly better players. Not to mention that the guard you kill at the right node will probably go to middle and make it 8 on 5 anyway. You clearly didn't think this one through at all. Basing your entire strategy on luck does not fill me with confidence in you.

 

If you want to keep justifying your poor tactics with super hero stories about how your assassin escaped the planet Krypton so he could come to Alderaan and capture the grass node, by all means, I won't stop you. I just don't believe you for a second. Even if your stories were true and you are the chosen one, it's still a bad strategy because the vast majority of assassins are not capable of pulling this off with any reasonable margin of success. It would be like telling people to play a DPS operative over anything else because that one guy who plays a DPS operative did 800K damage in your war zone and finished ahead of everyone else. It's similar to claiming that Sentinels make the best hypergate guards because you played a Sentinel and you didn't lose the pylon.

Edited December 9, 2013 by HaoZhao

[mulzii]

VOIDSTAR:

-Double capping a door/console

 

Why? Why? WHY?! The door isn't going to be double bombed and that force field isn't doing to be double deactivated. If someone is planting the bomb or activating a console, then your job is to guard that person by stunning/pushing/CCing any enemy who is coming in your direction. In the case of doors, you want to be standing in front of the enemy's respawn zone so you can throw down all of your best stalling moves as soon as they come back from death.

 

To be honest, its not that big of a deal, and in some cases, it helps. Standing on/next to another capper can make it difficult for folks to target both cappers in time to stop one of them capping. Also, what are you suppose to do if you dont have any cc's off cooldown? Whack at someone as they leisurely walk up and hit the capper? At least your doing something potentially useful.

 

There are a few head scratchers in WZs for me:

huttball when a stealth sits in endzone the entire match when their team cannot get/keep the ball.

never understood the 1/7/0 strat in CW, but worse is the 6/0/2 strat and give up mid without a fight.

 

these really gets me going:

Novare at beginning, everyone jumps down, sees 1-2 reds heading to their pylon and all 8 charge the pylon, surrendering mid, letting them easily cap 4 orbs, etc.

 

Novare: non PT's guarding the pylon by sitting on it, even after being told its not a great idea.

any of the pylon ones when i'm on my stealthie, setup for a sap-cap, and some hero comes running up to the pylon with 20 secs to go in non-stealth, bringing all 8 of the enemy back...

[HaoZhao]

To be honest, its not that big of a deal, and in some cases, it helps. Standing on/next to another capper can make it difficult for folks to target both cappers in time to stop one of them capping. Also, what are you suppose to do if you dont have any cc's off cooldown? Whack at someone as they leisurely walk up and hit the capper? At least your doing something potentially useful.

 

Well, all it takes is something like thermal grenade or missile blast to stop all of you from planting the bomb. It sucks if everything is on cool down, but as an attacker, you shouldn't use all of your good stuff at once anyway. You'll be glad you saved that flashbang when it results in your team getting through the door.

[KamujinKravshera]

Sorry, while it's fun to read hero stories from bad hero assassins, all you've done is give away the middle. When I see people doing this, I clap in glee. It takes half as much effort to get that left node back as it does to take middle, so all you've done is make my job easier. Delaying in 7 on 5 is actually the worst strategy I've ever heard of. I'm tempted to edit my original post just to include this new entry.

 

First of all, they could send two people to the left node and then it would be 5 on 5 and you'd lose the node anyway. Too bad they won't give you medals for getting yourself killed more than anyone else. Secondly, 7 on 5 is not easy to maintain. Deaths in this situation will quickly result in a snowball effect. Once one person dies, the DPS players who killed him are going to move to someone else who will die even faster. The end result will be a wipe unless you were lucky enough to be PUG'd with significantly better players. Not to mention that the guard you kill at the right node will probably go to middle and make it 8 on 5 anyway. You clearly didn't think this one through at all. Basing your entire strategy on luck does not fill me with confidence in you.

 

If you want to keep justifying your poor tactics with super hero stories about how your assassin escaped the planet Krypton so he could come to Alderaan and capture the grass node, by all means, I won't stop you. I just don't believe you for a second. Even if your stories were true and you are the chosen one, it's still a bad strategy because the vast majority of assassins are not capable of pulling this off with any reasonable margin of success. It would be like telling people to play a DPS operative over anything else because that one guy who plays a DPS operative did 800K damage in your war zone and finished ahead of everyone else. It's similar to claiming that Sentinels make the best hypergate guards because you played a Sentinel and you didn't lose the pylon.

 

1) I am a healer.

 

2) You're clearly bad. So, no point in arguing further.

[HaoZhao]

1) I am a healer.

 

2) You're clearly bad. So, no point in arguing further.

 

Oh, so you tried to tell me that playing hero assassin is smart when you don't even play an assassin. Thanks for responding to my post which silenced you just to let me know you're backpedalling at light speed.

[Evolixe]

Sorry, while it's fun to read hero stories from bad hero assassins, all you've done is give away the middle. When I see people doing this, I clap in glee. It takes half as much effort to get that left node back as it does to take middle, so all you've done is make my job easier. Delaying in 7 on 5 is actually the worst strategy I've ever heard of. I'm tempted to edit my original post just to include this new entry.

 

First of all, they could send two people to the left node and then it would be 5 on 5 and you'd lose the node anyway. Too bad they won't give you medals for getting yourself killed more than anyone else. Secondly, 7 on 5 is not easy to maintain. Deaths in this situation will quickly result in a snowball effect. Once one person dies, the DPS players who killed him are going to move to someone else who will die even faster. The end result will be a wipe unless you were lucky enough to be PUG'd with significantly better players. Not to mention that the guard you kill at the right node will probably go to middle and make it 8 on 5 anyway. You clearly didn't think this one through at all. Basing your entire strategy on luck does not fill me with confidence in you.

 

If you want to keep justifying your poor tactics with super hero stories about how your assassin escaped the planet Krypton so he could come to Alderaan and capture the grass node, by all means, I won't stop you. I just don't believe you for a second. Even if your stories were true and you are the chosen one, it's still a bad strategy because the vast majority of assassins are not capable of pulling this off with any reasonable margin of success. It would be like telling people to play a DPS operative over anything else because that one guy who plays a DPS operative did 800K damage in your war zone and finished ahead of everyone else. It's similar to claiming that Sentinels make the best hypergate guards because you played a Sentinel and you didn't lose the pylon.

 

Nothing is a good strategy for the average player. Because the average player is ****bad.

I on the other hand, have no problems holding my own against 2-3 players for over a minute long without help.

[Whetstone]

HYPERGATES

 

-Leaving a single, non-stealth to guard a pylon

 

One non-stealth will NEVER be able to stop two enemy stealth from capturing the pylon. I know this from experience. My sister and I used to play together as an assassin and operative. She whirlwinds you and then starts capturing it. If you don't break WW, she captures the pylon. If you do break out of WW, I immediately throw down flashbang and we capture it anyway. It's the responsibility of the entire team to ensure that a PROPER guard is watching the pylon. One stealth user or TWO non-stealth users. Don't complain when the enemy double caps in the last 10 seconds when you left that oblivious Sentinel to guard the pylon all by himself. Don't assume you're being clever because you left a single gunslinger at the pylon and cover lets them see through stealth! What a joke. Whirlwind has a very long reach and assassins while come up behind you or on your flank. You won't know they are there until you're already spinning.

 

 

That statement is completely false a PT or VG can defend easily using their rockets to intrupt while cced

 

 

Agreed. Other non stealth classes that can solo guard hypergates are any spec sage/sorc or sab gunslinger/engineering sniper.

[Aetideus]

Nothing is a good strategy for the average player. Because the average player is ****bad.

I on the other hand, have no problems holding my own against 2-3 players for over a minute long without help.

 

It is true I ve seen you doing it but there were pugs.

[Arlanon]

Ooooh that reminds me of another one!

 

I call inc, fight for a few minutes vs 2 or 3 dudes, maybe they all get lucky and arrive at the same time instead of riding the noob train over, they finally get me, we lose the node, and someone says "WHY NO CALL :rak_02:"

Edited December 10, 2013 by Arlanon

[LanceCorporalDan]

Ooooh that reminds me of another one!

 

I call inc, fight for a few minutes vs 2 or 3 dudes, maybe they all get lucky and arrive at the same time instead of riding the noob train over, they finally get me, we lose the node, and someone says "WHY NO CALL :rak_02:"

 

Gave me a good chuckle, happens all the time

[Elusive_Thing]

Nothing is a good strategy for the average player. Because the average player is ****bad.

I on the other hand, have no problems holding my own against 2-3 players for over a minute long without help.

For over a minute? You play a Deception/Madness hybrid, right? You must face a lot of bads.

[Smuglebunny]

Im a rage jugg a majority of the time if im darkside and I frequently get left guarding the pylon in hypergates cuz dummies TOTALY IGNORE the main objective of the game.

 

As a DPS Jugg I am TERRIBLE as a node guard and REALLY GOOD as a ....DPS. Frequently top dps. SO having me at the pylon is a double waste.

 

I will lose it, and I, the probable top dps, will not be DPSing.

 

On my sin I head straight for the pylon every round cuz I consider it my job unless there is someone better suited and insisting on guarding, then I let them.

 

Node guards should be either stealth, or skilled tanks, and not a healer. (unless you have too many healers)

DPS and Healers need to be doing their jobs in mid or the other pylon.

 

and holy god when you hear "PYLON!!!" you'd better STOP fighting that guy, stun him whatever, and head to the damn pylon.

 

this is a good venting/educational thread...

[JeffrenBrek]

Imperial PvP on the Shadowlands:

 

Marauders who Predation as soon as Novare Coast begins, and the entire team falls and takes 10% fall damage.

 

AoE knockback out of Orbital Strikes, Lightning Storms, hell even Smash. EVERY SINGLE ASSASSIN DOES THIS except Zenod.

 

Stay stealthed in the enemy Huttball endzone... even when their own team doesn't even have the ball. Sit there the entire game and it is effectively a 7v8. Thanks for the help, guy.

 

.

 

I see those 3 so often on TOFN. The first one especially, which is quite hilarious.

[Lortemand]

Dumb, class fixed game.

[fleshtaker]

Shoulder cannon has an incrediably short range. All you have to do is get him away from that pylon. There are more than enough ways to do this without filling resolve completely instantly.

 

All you need is that breaker anyway. Most people don't realise that they cannot use their break on anything but a cap attempt when they are defending an objective.. as soon as they break that 4 second hardstun.. they're up for a nasty surprise.

HDL stops pulls you stand on the node itself no range issues at all only a very very terriable VG/PT would be capped to this and it wouldn't matter what class thay play they would get capped

[Jarvus]

Excellent PVP tips from a player who obviously is good at their game.

[Evolixe]

For over a minute? You play a Deception/Madness hybrid, right? You must face a lot of bads.

 

I just don't start fighting untill I absolutely have to. It works with proper players just as well as with bads.

 

The only difference is that you can sometimes even manage to fight off the bads on your own.

 

HDL stops pulls you stand on the node itself no range issues at all only a very very terriable VG/PT would be capped to this and it wouldn't matter what class thay play they would get capped

 

How are you going to know when to use your HDL when you can't even see me coming in the first place?

 

You are really short sighted...

Edited December 10, 2013 by Evolixe

[Elusive_Thing]

I just don't start fighting untill I absolutely have to. It works with proper players just as well as with bads.

 

The only difference is that you can sometimes even manage to fight off the bads on your own.

I thought you meant you would be in combat for more than a minute, as in actively beating them up. Remaining in stealth, distracting and sapping can keep one alive for a good while, that is true. To be fair, if the team mates don't get to your node in a minute, they are not reading the chat often enough.

[Zunayson]

For over a minute? You play a Deception/Madness hybrid, right? You must face a lot of bads.

 

between phase walk out of los, vanish, and cc, with proper set up time and vanish it takes easily a minute just to use those tools, let alone the actual fighting

 

I've rarely been able to find teams with the caliber of bad he's talking about, but it is laughable when it does happen.

[Resipsal]

Sorry, while it's fun to read hero stories from bad hero assassins, all you've done is give away the middle. When I see people doing this, I clap in glee. It takes half as much effort to get that left node back as it does to take middle, so all you've done is make my job easier. Delaying in 7 on 5 is actually the worst strategy I've ever heard of. I'm tempted to edit my original post just to include this new entry.

 

First of all, they could send two people to the left node and then it would be 5 on 5 and you'd lose the node anyway. Too bad they won't give you medals for getting yourself killed more than anyone else. Secondly, 7 on 5 is not easy to maintain. Deaths in this situation will quickly result in a snowball effect. Once one person dies, the DPS players who killed him are going to move to someone else who will die even faster. The end result will be a wipe unless you were lucky enough to be PUG'd with significantly better players. Not to mention that the guard you kill at the right node will probably go to middle and make it 8 on 5 anyway. You clearly didn't think this one through at all. Basing your entire strategy on luck does not fill me with confidence in you.

 

If you want to keep justifying your poor tactics with super hero stories about how your assassin escaped the planet Krypton so he could come to Alderaan and capture the grass node, by all means, I won't stop you. I just don't believe you for a second. Even if your stories were true and you are the chosen one, it's still a bad strategy because the vast majority of assassins are not capable of pulling this off with any reasonable margin of success. It would be like telling people to play a DPS operative over anything else because that one guy who plays a DPS operative did 800K damage in your war zone and finished ahead of everyone else. It's similar to claiming that Sentinels make the best hypergate guards because you played a Sentinel and you didn't lose the pylon.

 

While I support the goal (if not the tone) of this thread, I agree with many others who say that 1/6/1 or even 2/5/1 can be very good openings in a pug Alderaan. This is particularly true if your interceptor is an assassin. As far as 1/6/1 goes:

 

If the opponent goes 1/7/0, then you cap your node instantly, putting you a small bit ahead, while it's your assassin vs their whatever at their node. Deception assassins are, if I'm not mistake, the most powerful dueling class in the game right now, so there's a good chance you can take their node outright. Darkness assassins are also good duelists, and even if your darkness doesn't win, it will still only be 6v7 in mid while your turret pings their ship.

 

If the opponent goes 2/5/1 your deception assassin is probably hosed, but it's a brief 6v5 advantage for your team at mid. If your assassin is darkness, however, this is a very good situation. It will take 2 opponents a fair while to kill a full tank who delays using mind trap first, giving you even more time to win the 6v5 at mid.

 

You keep talking about a 5v7 in mid that throws mid away to the opposing team, but that seems unlikely to me. I suppose you're assuming a 2/5/1 strategy from your team, but if they send 7 mid than your node is undisputed. Just have that extra guy immediately come to mid and he'll likely reinforce it up to a 6v7 before the first round of defensive cooldowns are spent, their node is still being disputed by an excellent dueling class, and you're the only team with a firing turret.

 

You also talk about a 5v5 in mid while they win their node 2v1, but that means the two teams' strategies are mirrored. You lose their node 2v1, but if your tank is darkness that could take a very long time. Meanwhile, there's a 2v1 (your advantage) at your node as well, so it just comes down to who executes the 2/5/1 strategy better.

 

I don't much like 1/7/0 because it basically becomes a big arena match in the middle, and Republic often has more healers (I play Empire). With a 1/6/1 there's a good chance we can get the side nodes to start the match, or pull opponents out of mid so we win mid. If you are the first team to get 2 nodes you can win the game even if you have the weaker team because defending is easier than attacking. Ultimately, opening strategy is dispositive in only a minority of matches, as usually the better team will win regardless.

 

 

TLDR: 1/7/0 is a fine opening, but it is not the only good choice, even in pugs.

[HaoZhao]

TLDR: 1/7/0 is a fine opening, but it is not the only good choice, even in pugs.

 

First of all, thank you for your nice post. I don't agree with it, but it was well written and not a tantrum, so I appreciate it. In response, I still believe the superman assassin argument is ridiculous and that it actually helps me prove that 1/7/0 in PUGs is optimal. Let's take a look at this gem.

 

I on the other hand, have no problems holding my own against 2-3 players for over a minute long without help.

 

Really? If you're such a superman assassin who can take on THREE enemies at once (just under half of their entire team), then it sounds like you'd be the perfect candidate to be the 1 in 1/7/0. If you're such a superman that you can handle three enemies, then surely you'll be able to defend that node against any team foolish enough to open with 1/6/1 or 2/5/1. Indeed with such a hero guarding the left node, there's no reason not to throw every resource you have into the middle.

 

Perhaps it's a little unfair to burden you with the really bad argument of Evolixe though. Look at it this way. Let's say you lose middle but capture both of the side nodes. The match isn't over. You now have to hold on to that right node which is the hardest for your team to capture and the easiest for the enemy team to capture. It's a poor long-term strategy, in my opinion.

Edited December 11, 2013 by HaoZhao

[Evolixe]

First of all, thank you for your nice post. I don't agree with it, but it was well written and not a tantrum, so I appreciate it. In response, I still believe the superman assassin argument is ridiculous and that it actually helps me prove that 1/7/0 in PUGs is optimal. Let's take a look at this gem.

 

 

 

Really? If you're such a superman assassin who can take on THREE enemies at once (just under half of their entire team), then it sounds like you'd be the perfect candidate to be the 1 in 1/7/0. If you're such a superman that you can handle three enemies, then surely you'll be able to defend that node against any team foolish enough to open with 1/6/1 or 2/5/1. Indeed with such a hero guarding the left node, there's no reason not to throw every resource you have into the middle.

 

Perhaps it's a little unfair to burden you with the really bad argument of someone else though. Look at it this way. Let's say you lose middle but capture both of the side nodes. The match isn't over. You now have to hold on to that right node which is the hardest for your team to capture and the easiest for the enemy team to capture. It's a poor long-term strategy, in my opinion.

 

It hardly matters, really.

[HaoZhao]

It hardly matters, really.

 

I am inclined to disagree. In my experience, the numbers of attackers/defenders at each node in any match of civil war has been very consequential.

[anwg]

VOIDSTAR:

 

-Shouting anything to the tune of "Stealth go right, everyone else go left."

 

Just because someone typed that doesn't mean you have to follow. Feel free to come up with your own strategy. Though it's amusing when someone do that when there are no stealth in the team.

 

-Double capping a door/console

 

Appropriate against a solo stealth defender.

 

What's really stupid is when there is just one or two defender left, but nobody tries to cap the node, or slow down reinforcements.

 

HYPERGATES

 

-Collecting orbs when your team is going to lose unless they double cap

 

It's a free medal!

 

Also considering the totally made up score of 590(730) - 565(820). Getting an orb is obviously the better option than going for 2 cap.

 

-Hiding from heals

 

Unless you are both on voice comm I doubt he knew you were healing him. And if you are you should call out "casting heal on <name>"