gunships... the jokes still not funny GSF devs

[Dustotepp]

The scout is free to turn back and get promptly sniped up it's a$s by the same gunship he just 'chased off', you mean

 

Bah. Anyone that is going to take the role of Gunship hunter, has to learn how to deal with people coming back wanting revenge. If they aren't coming after you after the first time you take them, they certainly will after the 2nd or 3rd.

[Brewski]

I think people misunderstand, yes a lot of time it is easy to get gunship kills

 

my problem with them that nobody will address is the fact that they have

- utility [ion canon, rotational thrusters, interdiction drive]

- survivability [feedback shield, fortress shield, sensor dampening and heavy armor]

- and 2 rail gun components with damage that is unmatched by any other ship [one shot kill slug rail gun and a good dot with damage plasma rail gun plus a shield piercing burst laser canon]

 

all of this is exclusive to the gunship only, I have said from the beginning let them keep their gun but lets consider nerfing or removing their movement impairing abilities and feedback shield / fortress shield. they should not have all 3 with exclusive abilities and weapons, seems kind of over powered to me

 

a scout does not have that survivability, damage, or utility and a strike fighter does not have the utility or as high and quick unannounced damage, though better survivability

All of their special equipment supports but a single role: Long distance sniper. They have no real survivability up close, and absolutely no utility. In the end, no matter how you cut it, they are a single use ship as things currently stand. As such, they should be the best at what they do, and should require specific counters. I expect the same reaction to infiltrators and bombers when they are introduced.

 

Is it annoying to get sniped from the shadows when you are busy dogfighting? Sure it is. Can it be countered? Yes. There for does it need a nerf? No.

 

In my opinion, gunships bring a secondary combat element to GSF matches. I need to be aware of not only the specific target I am fighting, but also of where we are, and the likely hood of being targeted by a gunship. When I hear one go off nearby, I need to locate it and find out if it's an enemy. If it is, I need to adjust my plan to either make sure I'm not a target, or better yet, take it out.

 

They make the match more exciting, and force me to adapt. Now i spend time hunting the hunters, and that's fun too. Someday they will find a counter to the gunship hunting scout, and I'll have to adapt again. It's all part of the game, and why I enjoy it.

[Puja]

The three ship classes are really well balanced. When I'm in a scout the more gunships on the other team the merrier. They are the easiest ship to kill.

 

In general, kill big to small (gunships then strike fighters then scouts) and then you will pretty much never get one shot by a gunship.

[Sharee]

Bah. Anyone that is going to take the role of Gunship hunter, has to learn how to deal with people coming back wanting revenge. If they aren't coming after you after the first time you take them, they certainly will after the 2nd or 3rd.

 

Im not talking about coming back after getting killed and wanting revenge. Im talking about the gunship running back to spawn so that the scout cant follow, then sniping him from the safety of the capital ships guns. This was a reply to the claim that a scout can 'return back to the action' after chasing a GS to the spawn.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Sharee

[Dustotepp]

Im not talking about coming back after getting killed and wanting revenge. Im talking about the gunship running back to spawn so that the scout cant follow, then sniping him from the safety of the capital ships guns. This was a reply to the claim that a scout can 'return back to the action' after chasing a GS to the spawn.

 

I misread the original post, but I think the principle remains the same. Personally, if a Gunship survives my initial attack run, and I can't kill them before they start to bolt back to spawn, I boost away out of their sensor range and wait for them to think it is safe.

[Sharee]

I misread the original post, but I think the principle remains the same. Personally, if a Gunship survives my initial attack run, and I can't kill them before they start to bolt back to spawn, I boost away out of their sensor range and wait for them to think it is safe.

 

Only problem is a fully upgraded GS can pretty much oneshot a scout, so if the scout breaks off pursuit and allows the GS to gain distance, he is pretty much dead.

[Dustotepp]

Only problem is a fully upgraded GS can pretty much oneshot a scout, so if the scout breaks off pursuit and allows the GS to gain distance, he is pretty much dead.

 

I do this, and still kill them. I just boost out of their range and wait for them to either go reengage the main fight or come looking for me. Then I boost in from behind them and unload. I don't think I have ever had a Gunship hit me with the rail gun while boosting into a curve.

 

Note: I still think that regular one-shot kills are generally not fun.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Dustotepp

[Andryah]

Bah. Anyone that is going to take the role of Gunship hunter, has to learn how to deal with people coming back wanting revenge. If they aren't coming after you after the first time you take them, they certainly will after the 2nd or 3rd.

 

/Agree.

[Sangrar]

I think people misunderstand, yes a lot of time it is easy to get gunship kills

 

my problem with them that nobody will address is the fact that they have

- utility [ion canon, rotational thrusters, interdiction drive]

- survivability [feedback shield, fortress shield, sensor dampening and heavy armor]

- and 2 rail gun components with damage that is unmatched by any other ship [one shot kill slug rail gun and a good dot with damage plasma rail gun plus a shield piercing burst laser canon]

 

all of this is exclusive to the gunship only, I have said from the beginning let them keep their gun but lets consider nerfing or removing their movement impairing abilities and feedback shield / fortress shield. they should not have all 3 with exclusive abilities and weapons, seems kind of over powered to me

 

a scout does not have that survivability, damage, or utility and a strike fighter does not have the utility or as high and quick unannounced damage, though better survivability

 

You can't use all of those at once though, ion cannon has less damage than anything, feedback shield only delivers damage upon getting a hit to your shields that's it, fortress shield was already addressed and got a cooldown to prevent spamming, and of course the railguns are unmatched that's what makes them unique and makes people want to play them, as scout with unmatched speed, and the strike fighters torpedo capability, nerf damage you ruin it. Rotational thrusters, interdiction drive, and such as engine components that the other ships have too. Also, where did you get the heavy armor idea from?

 

This thread and threads like this make me nervous. People call for drastic and overzealous nerfs, Bioware pulls out the nerf stick, and then a REAL class balance is created (don't believe me? Look at ground pvp from 1.0 and now, compare and contrast, some people complained after 1.0 about each other getting everyone nerfed, made it a lot worse later starting a chain of nerfs and buffs all too strong resulting in now). You can't nerf damage and range at the least, gunships were made for that purpose, if you screw with what makes the gunship the gunship then it will be effectively ruined, people will complain and yell and then ruin GS, all because the complainers(lets call them carebears) would not stop at any less than destroying the gunships utility. Nerf shields or armor if you like (again where did you pull the heavy armor thing from? the other ships from what I see have about the same or in the strike fighters case more armor than the gunship) and also early in this thread you said gunships can run back and forth against the map on booster power which was completely untrue, I checked even the strike fighter is faster. Anyway nerf shields and armor and make us even more open targets but in the end all the attempts at ill advised nerfs can only mean bad things for GS, and I like it don't screw it, as it is there is already a potential balance problem coming with bombers.

[Vis-Tecum]

Rotational thrusters, interdiction drive, and such as engine components that the other ships have too.

 

 

what other ships have these??? before you start throwing around insults calling people carebears

 

learn to read I have said multiple times let them keep their damage nerf their utility isn't it damage that makes them a gunship or is it shutting down engines that makes them a gun ship. ion canon does less damage to hulls but severe damage to shields also draining engine AND weapon pools/regen and you still have another secondary rail gun to do damage to the already unshielded damaged and disabled ship

 

Gunships have heavier shields with the same regen as black bolts and faster regen then stings

gunship shield - default shield capacity 1870

blackbolt / sting shield - default shield capacity 1040

rycer / quell shield - default shield capacity 1440

 

gunships have heavier armor then scouts who have 0% reduction and only 100 less then strike fighters and heavier shields

gunship hull - 1350 + 5% damage reduction

blackbolt - 950 + 0% damage reduction / sting - 1026 + 0% damage reduction

rycer / quell - 1450 + 5% damage reduction

 

bad gunships are bad

Edited December 10, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Zoom_VI]

what other ships have these??? be fore you start throwing around insults

 

and you have heavier shields and armor then scouts

 

and learn to read I have said multiple times let them keep their damage nerf their utility isn't it damage that makes them a gunship or is it shutting down engines that makes them a gun ship

 

I would rather them keep their utility and nerf the damage. For the sake of sanity nothing should be allowed to one shot anything else. That breeds nothing but rage and frustration.

Nerfing their utility just destroys the QoL of gunships and still leaves the one-shotting frustration from scouts and now the gunships are more frustrated from being easier to take out.

 

better idea:

 

Nerf damage, that way scouts can react to being attacked which means less frustration as they actually have the opportunity to respond. The defensives/utility for gunships should stay the same as it gives gunships some way to react to being close-range attacked thus they don't become frustrated.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Vis-Tecum]

They have no real survivability up close, and absolutely no utility.

 

how do you justify heavier shields then both ships with 2 shield components no other ship can acquire, one that increase's a already superior hull by 100% for 30 second and one that does damage back to attackers as no real survivability?

 

how do you justify draining a ships energy and weapon pool and regeneration with one shot leaving them damaged with no shields and dead in the open and still have another secondary rail gun for damage and the ability to slow down attackers and increase your own speed when you need to escape as no utility?

 

on a scout if you use sabo prob you don't also get to use rocket pods so its either utility or damage the gunship gets both. and it needs to be mentioned that only one other ship the sting [that is not a default ship] can use burst laser canons with shield piercing and gunships boost and engine pool is not as weak as you all make it out to be, a gunship can run just fine and it can plant itself and fight

Edited December 10, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Svarthrafn]

Some gunship pilots are quite adept at running and gunning. They seem a little fast at times, but you can still get them.

 

Personally, I would just like to see a minimum range applied to their weapon. This would make it easier to knock out camptards on the beacons. Scouts can have issues trying to set up an approach to dislodge them as it is right now.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Svarthrafn

[Vis-Tecum]

also anyone else getting a lot of lag tonight? its been fine since launch would even say really good but tonight I have ships skipping around all over the place and blaster fire not doing any damage when I can get my cursor to stop jumping around when it gets on target of the ship, otherwise it tracks smooth but when it zeros in it goes all wonky making it extremely hard to aim accurately

 

just wondering, haven't had problems before but it has severely crippled my kill count tonight

[Lord_Of_Sith]

Gunships have heavier shields with the same regen as black bolts and faster regen then stings

gunship shield - default shield capacity 1870

blackbolt / sting shield - default shield capacity 1040

rycer / quell shield - default shield capacity 1440

 

gunships have heavier armor then scouts who have 0% reduction and only 100 less then strike fighters but have heavier shields

gunship hull - 1350 + 5% damage reduction

blackbolt - 950 + 0% damage reduction / sting - 1026 + 0% damage reduction

rycer / quell - 1450 + 5% damage reduction

 

Here are the base numbers for each ship, after you remove component modifiers and crew modifiers. For a fair comparison of balance, you should use the base stats rather than the default component/crew stats. (I used the stats as seen at http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-galactic-starfighter/)

 

Scouts (Both S-12 Blackbolt and S-13 Sting):

1300 Shield Capacity; 65.0 Shield Regen Rate; 950 Hull Health; 0% Damage Reduction; 10% Evasion

 

Strike Fighters (Both F-T6 Rycer and F-T2 Quell):

1800 Shield Capacity; 90.0 Shield Regen Rate; 1450 Hull Health; 5% Damage Reduction; 5% Evasion

 

Gunship:

1700 Shield Capacity; 85.0 Shield Regen Rate; 1250 Hull Health; 5% Damage Reduction; 0% Evasion

 

As you can see, gunships do not have the highest shields (they do in the default layout, as all scouts and strike fighters come default with a -30% capacity shield while gunships do not). The Strike Fighters win out in everything except evasion.

 

I think we can all agree that the design intent is for strike fighters to be the most durable and scouts to be the least durable. The numbers reflect this, and gunships are in-between. I can't say whether or not they are exactly where they should be (I think that gunships may be better balanced with 1500 or 1600 shield capacity), but the ships are in the proper order of strongest to weakest.

[Vis-Tecum]

Here are the base numbers for each ship, after you remove component modifiers and crew modifiers. For a fair comparison of balance, you should use the base stats rather than the default component/crew stats. (I used the stats as seen at http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-galactic-starfighter/)

 

I somewhat disagree as you would have to buy components to get those "base" numbers where the default is the default but that's not important

 

I was called out for claiming the gunships had survivability because of their armor and shields and I think I proved my point they are not squishy like everyone claims even with out upgrades, scouts on the other hand are and scouts don't get to one shot other ships from range. gunships are not a glass canon like every one claims they have the survivability and utility along with awesome fire power, the other ships do not their ONLY weakness is having tunnel vision and that is easily accounted for.

 

when you start putting together all the things a gunship can do that no other ship can along with the unique play style and easy mode kills, I start to question the design from a balance point of view, it was questioned in beta and on the pts and it went live as is, now with more people and really good pilots out there I think it has become more of a issue then before. add to that experience in matches with multiple different scenarios that gunships have come out on top and are very hard to counter well I don't think I am being unreasonable and just calling for nerfs because I got one shot

 

I know you all think im full of **** but play against good gunships, they are not easy to stop and rack in the kills. even against good teams unlike the scouts who farm new players and bad teams but their numbers are seriously gimped with any competition. honestly in a even match is where they become more of a imbalance because their support becomes more noticeable unlike when a team dominates and its just scouts running around for quick kills but don't worry nothing is getting nerfed and we all know it, gunships are safe, I just disagree with the ship as it is and believe if you can one shot ships and two shot the tankier ships then you should be easy to kill, that is not the case with a gunship pilot with half a brain.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Tentou]

The most overpowered thing about Gunships has to do with Ion Cannon upgrades. I haven't seen anyone do it yet on PoT5 the way I have, but I just unlocked it and trust me its hilariously unfair to the other team. It has nothing to do with kills, its a shutdown wep, and an AoE at that.

[paowee]

The most overpowered thing about Gunships has to do with Ion Cannon upgrades. I haven't seen anyone do it yet on PoT5 the way I have, but I just unlocked it and trust me its hilariously unfair to the other team. It has nothing to do with kills, its a shutdown wep, and an AoE at that.

 

I got hit by an upgraded ion cannon in harbinger just now. i was on my scout hunting and pissing off gunships. i got shot twice , two short bursts and it took my engine pool down to 10% from 100. I was satellite humping keeping an objective..

Edited December 10, 2013 by paowee

[Dragoon-]

I have to agree ION gun are totally awesome. It's not a weapon for the kill junkies out there but will get a lot of assist, since people hit by a fully upgraded ion gun are screwed. I have so much fun with that weapon, that this can only mean the Nerf hammer will come with certainty. I personal think a fully upgraded Ion Gun with all the Dots this is the best weapon in the whole GS.

Let just list what a with a single shot can do.

high damage to shields,

drains engine and weapon power,

AOE up to 3 targets with additional engine and weapon power drain

reduce target speed by 40% for 6 seconds.

 

That leaves a ship so crippled even a newbie can shoot it down now.

 

Instead to attack go defend a point in distance of you carrier with interdiction drive or barrel roll.

If someone attacks you immediately activate feedback shield (reflect blaster damage back to them, hilarious when you see them they die by their own fire) and retreat to your carrier. Unless you're attack by two fighter at once it's virtual impossible to destroy you in time. Make sure to snipe them with the Ion gun in the back should they turn away. Add insult to the injury.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Dragoon-

[Vis-Tecum]

If someone attacks you immediately activate feedback shield (reflect blaster damage back to them, hilarious when you see them they die by their own fire) and retreat to your carrier.

 

/shakes fist

 

the first time this happened to me I felt so stupid, I just looked at my screen and thought... really?

 

I got hit saw him there was under them instantly opened fire... died, he didn't even leave his position

[niceguyy]

The most overpowered thing about Gunships has to do with Ion Cannon upgrades. I haven't seen anyone do it yet on PoT5 the way I have, but I just unlocked it and trust me its hilariously unfair to the other team. It has nothing to do with kills, its a shutdown wep, and an AoE at that.

 

So that's what that was. Got hit early this morning (2AM?) with it. I was boosting towards you and all of a sudden my engine goes dead. But I make it in range for my Heavies and.... oh wait they're drained too? That is one devastating weapon and probably the only OP thing about gunships currently...

 

Alas, Shock, I think if even half of these people played against you and your premade from hell they would ALL be saying to nerf gunships! I know you've got some serious upgrades, but I'm still trying to figure out how you outran my Nova. It's very frustrating to play against you and your entourage, but all the more of a challenge.

[Atamasama]

Alas, Shock, I think if even half of these people played against you and your premade from hell they would ALL be saying to nerf gunships! I know you've got some serious upgrades, but I'm still trying to figure out how you outran my Nova. It's very frustrating to play against you and your entourage, but all the more of a challenge.

Some people are just good.

 

I'm not one of them, I think I'm okay, but I'm still learning.

[Dirksolomon]

The only problem I have with gunships is how they are designed. I was so thrilled of a dog-fight space fighting matches. I wanted to be reminded of the good old X-wing, Tie-fighter series but what did I get when I entered a match? It was half of enemy team sitting on other side of the map next to floating asteroids, shooting laser beams at people from relative distance. And if they got one scratch into their shields they would bugger off into a safe zone.

 

So what I got instead of X-Wing was Call of Duty: Space Ships, space ships with snipe lasors next to asteroids instead of high caliber toting snipers in bushes, sitting still, waiting for something to shoot. (Maybe Call of Duty: Space Ships is bit too harsh but snipers... in a dog fighting gamemode? Reaaally?)

[AlrikFassbauer]

stop trying to defend your op ships

 

To me, rather Scouts are the OP ships.

 

They are so much faster, can much more easily evade any hits, have a far faster & better damage rare ... They are THE OP ship, almost.

 

I'm hardly ever ble to kill a Scout, despite them having less hull.

 

I'm rather able to kill a Strike Fighter than a Scout.

 

And in 80 % my own starfighter got killed by a Scout.

[Brewski]

how do you justify heavier shields then both ships with 2 shield components no other ship can acquire, one that increase's a already superior hull by 100% for 30 second and one that does damage back to attackers as no real survivability?

 

how do you justify draining a ships energy and weapon pool and regeneration with one shot leaving them damaged with no shields and dead in the open and still have another secondary rail gun for damage and the ability to slow down attackers and increase your own speed when you need to escape as no utility?

 

on a scout if you use sabo prob you don't also get to use rocket pods so its either utility or damage the gunship gets both. and it needs to be mentioned that only one other ship the sting [that is not a default ship] can use burst laser canons with shield piercing and gunships boost and engine pool is not as weak as you all make it out to be, a gunship can run just fine and it can plant itself and fight

 

I justify it through experience. No gunship I find survives unless they:

1) Have a wingman nearby covering them.

2) Are close enough to boost back to their fleet cover.

 

Even mastered gunships fall to a determined scout. They can't get away, and they can't fight back. When I start seeing gunships escape, or find them capable of turning on me and killing me when I am in pursuit, I'll believe you. Until then I have to believe what I see in the battlefield.

 

As for a lack of utility, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me a role other than sniper that a gunship can play. I define utility as being able to fill more than one role in a team, and no matter how you cut it or what configuration you give, they are still a sniper.