Vladnar Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Its a truly great balance but look at this for a Strike Fighter ok....last 2 fights same player......32k and 62k....HONEST.......best gunship was 16k and 21K which is reasonable enough. Its all a good balance and we should just enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royox Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 My real problem with GS is that they are so usually played by noobs or bad players that when I have to deal vs a good GS I dunno what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 none of that is true against a gunship with 1/2 a brain the only thing you can do is ignore everything and go after the gunships then they just run back to the capital ship or have one of their protectors get behind you then go back to killing ^^this Live right now is 90% scrubs, I remember the PTS where scouts couldn't go 2 meters out from under a satellite without being one-shotted. And nobody even played strikers because of all the sensor dampened gunships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Gunship pilot checking in. A few observations: 1. Gunships aren't quite as easy to kill as described, even when they don't have the support of other (intelligent) gunships. This may be more an issue with barrel roll, but if I combine barrel roll and boosting perfectly I can typically lead a (barrel roll-less) scout all the way across a map without dying. Talented, barrel roll is virtually free and opens up anywhere from 3-5km on the enemy. I don't even have the +10% engine speed talent yet. With sensor damping there is a decent chance of opening up enough range that they lose sensor lock entirely and you're free to hide. 2. Teamwork does an enormous amount to mitigate or negate entirely the weaknesses of gunships (as it should!). My guildies and I queue up in groups of 4 with 2 gunship/scout pairs. Each pair goes to one node, with the scout capping and the gunship providing cover fire. When someone decides to go after the gunship, the scout flies up and helps clear his tail. 3. Talented slug railgun + bypass = I feel so sorry for the poor scouts that I one-shot. 4. I love it when I see enemy gunships on the field, because a poorly played gunship is the easiest thing for me to kill. Edited December 9, 2013 by Kuciwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMightyKnight Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) 1. Gunships aren't quite as easy to kill as described, even when they don't have the support of other (intelligent) gunships. This may be more an issue with barrel roll, but if I combine barrel roll and boosting perfectly I can typically lead a (barrel roll-less) scout all the way across a map without dying. Talented, barrel roll is virtually free and opens up anywhere from 3-5km on the enemy. I don't even have the +10% engine speed talent yet. With sensor damping there is a decent chance of opening up enough range that they lose sensor lock entirely and you're free to hide. Uhm, against a Scout with no upgrades maybe. I fly a fully upgraded Nova Scout and there is just no way a mere gunship can outrun me once i get in weapons range. Killing a Gunship with a properly upgraded Scout is no that hard, especially if you can suprise them. The biggest problerm is for you to close into weapons range if a Gunship has already zerored in on you. You need some superior evasive maneuvers and a little bit of luck to avoid railguns shots, but they are dead meat in wepaons range. The only way for a gunship to survive a Nova on their six is a friendly scout or strike fighter to save them. Gunships are so much fun to kill. Edited December 9, 2013 by AMightyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Uhm, against a Scout with no upgrades maybe. I fly a fully upgraded Nova Scout and there is just no way a mere gunship can outrun me once i get in weapons range. Killing a Gunship with a properly upgraded Scout is no that hard, especially if you can suprise them. The biggest problerm is for you to close into weapons range if a Gunship has already zerored in on you. You need some superior evasive maneuvers and a little bit of luck to avoid railguns shots, but they are dead meat in wepaons range. The only way for a gunship to survive a Nova on their six is a friendly scout or strike fighter to save them. Gunships are so much fun to kill. That's all great for a 1v1 where its just you and the gunship. But in objective play you can't just leave the node to chase a gunship and zooming off towards the gunship will draw unwanted attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I have no idea how upgraded the scouts were, but I know I've done this in multiple matches. Even assuming they were completely un-upgraded, I'm estimating that full upgrades on a scout aren't worth more than about a 35% flat speed boost. That would mean I can't get away forever but I can probably make it back to my capital ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMightyKnight Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) That's all great for a 1v1 where its just you and the gunship. But in objective play you can't just leave the node to chase a gunship and zooming off towards the gunship will draw unwanted attentionA typical gunshipt intercept action takes me 15sec on average if we are talking about our average fat and happy gunship. Its highly unlikely that the gunship will get any meaningfull sppuort in the interception window. And yes the game is about objectives, but i'd rather leave the node and go after a gunship which sat up in range than watch it killing me and three other guys. Trying to outrun a gunship which has zerored in on you is a bad idea, since most of the time you dont have time to figure out the ideal escape vector. The far more efficient option is to fire up trusters, close in and kill it. Edited December 9, 2013 by AMightyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I like how all the examples on how to kill gunships suggest that the gunship is sitting alone in open space and not hidden with its back covered, not paying attention to incoming damage, and doesn't know how to run or use defensive abilities... I don't know what kind of bad gunships are on other servers but it is rare I find one of these pilots. is that the only way to kill a gunship? find one with a bad pilot. just don't fly straight at it indeed Edited December 9, 2013 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I have no idea how upgraded the scouts were, but I know I've done this in multiple matches. Even assuming they were completely un-upgraded, I'm estimating that full upgrades on a scout aren't worth more than about a 35% flat speed boost. That would mean I can't get away forever but I can probably make it back to my capital ship. But if you've been chased back to your capital ship, then the scout won. You're out of the fight where it matters, the scout is free to turn back and help out. I admit that gunships retreating to their spawn point feels rather cheap, but ultimately that's just a mindset issue. They're not helping the match in that case, and nobody needs to stay in range of their guns. It's like when you fight someone for control of a satellite: you don't NEED to kill that person, you just need him to run away. Moment you get the enemy to boost away to safety, you've won the engagement (bonus points if he boosts into something and dies ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Now that gunships are getting fully upgraded, they're a pain to kill, especially with a scout, and that's if they have no backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 But if you've been chased back to your capital ship, then the scout won. You're out of the fight where it matters, the scout is free to turn back and help out. Not really, since the scout is out of the fight for roughly the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) But if you've been chased back to your capital ship, then the scout won. You're out of the fight where it matters, the scout is free to turn back and help out. except the scout is now the main target for any near by or spawning fighters [hopefully no gunships are spawning in] and if the scout gets engaged in a dogfight the gunship is in position for a easy kill. if the gunship is fast it can use rotational thrusters and fire on you while your leaving, their range can hit you where you cant touch them because of the capital ships instakill turret, if their damping makes them disappear they are now following you back getting ready for the kill and also assuming you were smart enough to not burn all your power in pursuit and don't get left dead in the water so to speak not to mention it doesn't take that long for them to be back in action and with their kill rate all you did was slightly postpone their killing spree all of these examples I have learned to watch out for from experience, also if you get hit and have a damaged hull don't attack the gunship right away, I have killed myself on their feedback shield before... stupid on my part but still lame Edited December 9, 2013 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustotepp Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I play a Scout and I go into games with my primary focus being to hunt and kill Gunships. Ones with good upgrades are harder if you don't kill them in the first pass. Interdiction drive and that short range cannon can really do a number on a scout, but it doesn't come up that much if you can catch them with decently upgraded rocket pods. Even if they have support, I can usually kill them on the first pass if they are in a sniping position by dumping rocket pods on them. Then I just boost away from their support and head back to protected territory. I can keep probably 3 of them under control that way. If there are more than three, I can't kill them fast enough by myself. I don't know if that means they are balanced are not. They certainly do a tremendous amount of damage, which is why hunting them helps the team, but they are controllable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) ion canon, interdiction drive / rotational thrusters, feedback shield / fortress shield, and sensor dampening... oh how I hate thee and all exclusively gunship components only with so much utility... well sensor dampening is only useful for gunships but scouts can use them to a lesser effect Edited December 9, 2013 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustotepp Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I was talking about the Burst Laser Cannon. That thing is brutal at close range. I have maxxed out Dampening Sensors, and I suspect it is currently more useful for me than it is for them. With sensor dampening currently limited to 15k, if they are within firing range of people on my team, then their location is getting communicated to me. Then I don't come within that 15k range of them until I am boosting at them on my attack run and they don't have enough time to do anything about it. (Dampening also keeps them from being able to find me afterwards. After the 2nd or 3rd time in a row that I kill them, they sometimes start getting vindictive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I like how all the examples on how to kill gunships suggest that the gunship is sitting alone in open space and not hidden with its back covered, not paying attention to incoming damage, and doesn't know how to run or use defensive abilities... I don't know what kind of bad gunships are on other servers but it is rare I find one of these pilots. is that the only way to kill a gunship? find one with a bad pilot. just don't fly straight at it indeed dude, even with the back covered they are still susceptible from the top and bottom. A gunship will mostly be focused on targets near the node, as a gunship pilot myself I have had my back to a wall at times, they come from below me or above me and blow me out of the sky. Also, gunships can only focus on one ship at a time, two ships head striaght at me at once, I can blow one away but the others will get me, we are fine in terms of balance, you can nerf our armor or shields more if you really have to but don't ruin damage and range, they were spcifically designed for that and if you do that then they will be effectively ruined and you will repeat the mistakes with ground pvp. Biowre does excessive nerfs that throw the balance worse and really create a real problem, so threads like this make me nervous that someone is really going to create a real imbalance like ground pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustotepp Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I don't think anything is going to get nerfed until at least the bombers come in. Adding in healing from bombers will changes the dynamics of the game again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I like how all the examples on how to kill gunships suggest that the gunship is sitting alone in open space and not hidden with its back covered, not paying attention to incoming damage, and doesn't know how to run or use defensive abilities... I don't know what kind of bad gunships are on other servers but it is rare I find one of these pilots. is that the only way to kill a gunship? find one with a bad pilot. just don't fly straight at it indeed I mostly find gunships alone and unescorted. If they have a scout or strike nearby covering them, it can be tricky, but even if I don't kill them I can usually scare them off their spot. I also never fly directly at one unless they are literally parked in open space with no cover. Cover for them means cover for me, and usually the ability to sneak right up on them by boosting away and circling around. They do not last long once I'm under 4k range, and unless they have someone escorting them, I will follow them until they die. As for frontal assault sometime it is necessary. When that happens, I know how long the gun takes to charge (and you can see the cloud) so I generally boost straight in as fast as possible, then barrel roll just before I think they are going to fire. It works about half the time I'd say, and 100% of the time if I have a wing-man flying in with me. In every match I played over the weekend where I set myself to specifically hunt gunships (any match where there were more than 4 of them) I scored more gunship kills than deaths (with the occasional scout/striker kill as well), and I am far from the best hunter out there. Well played gunships are a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield, to be sure. But then again so are well played strikers and scouts. The divide we are seeing now mostly comes from player skill. As that improves, and they add preferred and free players to the mix, even that will matter less as matchmaking improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 As a scout I slaughter gunships. They are slow and and fat making them an easy target at close range. I think there fine. And I slaughter Scouts. When they are after a Gunship, they are easy targets for me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) In every match I played over the weekend where I set myself to specifically hunt gunships (any match where there were more than 4 of them) I scored more gunship kills than deaths (with the occasional scout/striker kill as well), and I am far from the best hunter out there. I think people misunderstand, yes a lot of time it is easy to get gunship kills my problem with them that nobody will address is the fact that they have - utility [ion canon, rotational thrusters, interdiction drive] - survivability [feedback shield, fortress shield, sensor dampening and heavy armor] - and 2 rail gun components with damage that is unmatched by any other ship [one shot kill slug rail gun and a good dot with damage plasma rail gun plus a shield piercing burst laser canon] all of this is exclusive to the gunship only, I have said from the beginning let them keep their gun but lets consider nerfing or removing their movement impairing abilities and feedback shield / fortress shield. they should not have all 3 with exclusive abilities and weapons, seems kind of over powered to me a scout does not have that survivability, damage, or utility and a strike fighter does not have the utility or as high and quick unannounced damage, though better survivability Edited December 9, 2013 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 And I slaughter Scouts. When they are after a Gunship, they are easy targets for me ... It's the Circle of Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I can see the rage that one feels getting sniped when youre dogfighting someone, but I think gunships just add a bit more to the game. Gives you something else you should be thinking about. Plus it gives people who have no spatial awareness and cant fly something to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeimp Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think people misunderstand, yes a lot of time it is easy to get gunship kills my problem with them that nobody will address is the fact that they have - utility [ion canon, rotational thrusters, interdiction drive] - survivability [feedback shield, fortress shield, sensor dampening and heavy armor] - and 2 rail gun components with damage that is unmatched by any other ship [one shot kill slug rail gun and a good dot with damage plasma rail gun plus a shield piercing burst laser canon] all of this is exclusive to the gunship only, I have said from the beginning let them keep their gun but lets consider nerfing or removing their movement impairing abilities and feedback shield / fortress shield. they should not have all 3 with exclusive abilities and weapons, seems kind of over powered to me a scout does not have that survivability, damage, or utility and a strike fighter does not have the utility or as high and quick unannounced damage, though better survivability Good job you cant have all those at the same time, and can only have one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharee Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 But if you've been chased back to your capital ship, then the scout won. You're out of the fight where it matters, the scout is free to turn back and help out. The scout is free to turn back and get promptly sniped up it's a$s by the same gunship he just 'chased off', you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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