2 Years of sub... where is the box sized expansion?

[Flaniganican]

The OP must be new to MMO's because that's how it has always been. However, if you are having trouble figuring out what to put in the box, follow these steps:

 

Step 1: Cut a hole in a box

Step 2: Put your junk in that box

Step 3: Make her open the box

 

And that's the way you do it...

 

What to put in a box...

[Grayseven]

I agree with you for the most part. They are calling this an expansion, and it is clearly NOT an expansion. Introducing a new form of space PvP and no new planets, quest hubs, gear, etc, counts as DLC, not an actual expansion. I'll begrudgingly give BW expansion credit for RotHC because it contained the necessary content to actually count as an expansion, but G. Starfighter IS NOT an expansion.

 

It expands the game, therefor it is an expansion.

 

An expansion need not be some massive addition every two years, a.k.a. the WoW model. EA/BW has gone a different route, providing smaller but more frequent additions to the game. RotHC was an expansion, albeit a small one. Then came Oricon and the Dread Masters...again, a small expansion of the game. In a few days we get Galactic Starfighter, an expansion that adds free flight PvP.

 

An expansion need not be DLC, but any DLC is, indeed, an expansion. It just isn't the huge expansion WoW players are used to. Instead, it follows BW/EA's stated path of smaller, more frequent content introductions.

 

I don't know what you seem to expect, but I much prefer a steady release of content every few months. And I sure as heck don't need a physical box every two years to feel like a game is expanding.

[Icebergy]

I dont mean this with arrogance. I love playing this game, i merely want more.

 

It's been 2 years now and i made the math. Its above 300 euros i have payed Bioware for this game and the ability to play it. I'm sure others payed even more with all the cartel shop stuff.

Now in comparison, i spend 50/60 euros on a mass effect game and maybe another 30 for the DLC totalling in about 80 euros, and i get a new Mass effect every 2 years.

 

So, this is simple. I have payed triple for this game, and still theres no box sized expansion announced. This wont do at all Bioware. We the players who love your games are here supporting you and paying, but were not getting nearly enough for what we are paying.

An expansion with 1 planet (wich btw i payed for aswell), a space mini-game and a couple of daily areas and raids do not account for all the money we're forking out.

 

Its time to support us back. Announce that expansion already! Both your fans and the game need it!

 

But in this game you get new things to do every ~2months. In ME you get what you bought in the box. Comparing apples to oranges.

[Bugattiboy]

Seems to still be working for WoW.

WoW is playing by it's own rules and they have at least sextuple the population of any MMO I've ever seen.

 

But back on topic. The box sized expansions will be released as soon as EA puts away their exsanguination equipment because it's been my experience that the two are mutually exclusive.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Bugattiboy

[gorstram]

It expands the game, therefor it is an expansion.

 

An expansion need not be some massive addition every two years, a.k.a. the WoW model. EA/BW has gone a different route, providing smaller but more frequent additions to the game. RotHC was an expansion, albeit a small one. Then came Oricon and the Dread Masters...again, a small expansion of the game. In a few days we get Galactic Starfighter, an expansion that adds free flight PvP.

 

An expansion need not be DLC, but any DLC is, indeed, an expansion. It just isn't the huge expansion WoW players are used to. Instead, it follows BW/EA's stated path of smaller, more frequent content introductions.

 

I don't know what you seem to expect, but I much prefer a steady release of content every few months. And I sure as heck don't need a physical box every two years to feel like a game is expanding.

 

 

You're absolutely right. I agree with you, and I am pleased with obtaining a box sized expansion in the aggregate, but GSF is a PvP expansion and class balance update (also LOL that they're not balancing all classes, but that's another gripe), in my opinion, the cadence for PvE is a little off. PvP just got arenas, a leaderboard, and other stuff to promote competitive PvP, but the last flashpoints added were Czerka. I need some new flashpoints (and so do others) for a change of pace.

[AlienEyeTX]

The problem is, what they are missing.. When this this game first started.. I got the collectors edition.. I have my Darth Malgus.. I thought that when the next collectors edition came out for an expansion, we would get a Satele Shan.. I am saddened by the prospect of that never happening,..

 

I agree with the OP.. I would like my expansions to come in a box with the option for a collectors edition.. To me these low cost digital downloads cheapens this game.. Again that is my opinion..

 

They need to have a proper expansion.. One that comes in a box.. One that extends our story, A new planet, A new mount for the collectors edition and or a new pet.. New warzones, new flashpoints, and new ops.. Oh and did I mention nothing for the Cartel Market.. This expansion will have to be purchased and not given away..

 

 

Wow! Talk about false assumptions and jumping to conclusions! I hope you don't hold it against BW that you will not have a Satele to match your Malgus.

 

I get what you are stating, though. But, personally, I am happier with smaller, more frequent updates... almost all of which are free. I mean, it would suck to have to wait two years to get the content that has been trickling out every 2-3 months. This model makes it much more likely that I won't wander off.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Wow! Talk about false assumptions and jumping to conclusions! I hope you don't hold it against BW that you will not have a Satele to match your Malgus.

 

I get what you are stating, though. But, personally, I am happier with smaller, more frequent updates... almost all of which are free. I mean, it would suck to have to wait two years to get the content that has been trickling out every 2-3 months. This model makes it much more likely that I won't wander off.

 

So will a leash and a shock collar.

[Rankyn]

So will a leash and a shock collar.

Yet another missed opportunity for including something in a boxed expansion!

[Grayseven]

You're absolutely right. I agree with you, and I am pleased with obtaining a box sized expansion in the aggregate, but GSF is a PvP expansion and class balance update (also LOL that they're not balancing all classes, but that's another gripe), in my opinion, the cadence for PvE is a little off. PvP just got arenas, a leaderboard, and other stuff to promote competitive PvP, but the last flashpoints added were Czerka. I need some new flashpoints (and so do others) for a change of pace.

 

GSF is PvP, but is not a PvP expansion in the traditional sense as it is completely separate from the regular ground PvP...which recently had the arena update.

 

While I would prefer expansions and updates to have additions to all styles of game play, I can understand the need to separate development cycles. PvE has had a majority of updates and I am satisfied with giving PvP its due.

 

Besides, there are supposed to be FP's with the GSF release, as a stepping stone, so even PvE ground gets a bit of love with this expansion.

[MillionsKNives]

GSF is PvP, but is not a PvP expansion in the traditional sense as it is completely separate from the regular ground PvP...which recently had the arena update.

 

While I would prefer expansions and updates to have additions to all styles of game play, I can understand the need to separate development cycles. PvE has had a majority of updates and I am satisfied with giving PvP its due.

 

Besides, there are supposed to be FP's with the GSF release, as a stepping stone, so even PvE ground gets a bit of love with this expansion.

 

I thought that was for the next update, not this one.

[Grayseven]

I thought that was for the next update, not this one.

 

It would seem contraindicated to throw space PvP out and then to later add FPs that tied the space PvP to the rest of the game in later, but you may be right. Even so, the fact that more FP's are coming should set the PvE ground players minds at ease.

[Nemmar]

Wow... i am deeply disappointed by some of the answers here.

 

Apparantly to ask for more content, content i am willing to pay for and will expand the game, without any conditions is something to be criticised. I ask those people, if that is not what you want, why are you still here?

 

Despite all the atempts to troll my post and what is clear i will try to make it clearer, though i think it will make little difference. By boxed expansion i mean continuation of the story, new planets, new flashpoints, new warzones. Exactly what you would expect of a boxed expansion for every other MMO.

 

Boxed expansions are extremely important, not only for the obvious plus of the content but to keep the game present and refreshed in the heads of the consumers by a retail presence. I dont know of an MMORPG game that has achieved much sucess with simply small content patches. I am a fan of SWTOR, i merely want more, and yet even i can tell that this model will simply bring a slow death to the game. If theres no game to play, people wont stick around. This wont work without major expansions, it will only drag on. And personally i would like to see this game rise and not quietly falling into irrelevancy.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Nemmar

[SitHamster]

I hope they'll expand the class quests of the 8 ones we have. Or, if it's too much work, make 4 stories; each one being written for a pair of class.

Sith classes

Jedi classes

Smuggler/Soldier and

Agent/Bounty Hunter for ex.

[aeterno]

This model of business is so 2001...

 

Good old times.

 

It'd be great but I doubt EA is going to give it the financial backing for it to materialize. I find it baffling some see that as "normal" and even "desirable". Yea we're much better off getting a Makeb and GS per year as opposed to TOR perhaps getting a WOTLK.

[Daex]

I prefer it this way, really.

First: Some players, who live in certain countries, would have to turn sees and mountains to get it. Already happened.

Second: Just if it is in the box, doesn't mean there is some good content in it. They could have put Makeb (and everything after it) in that 'box', but the result would be a time difference and what to do in-between.

Third - just me maybe: I am one of those people who like to 'save' everything I get, and having that 'box' would mean me not willing to throw it away resulting in more trash in my house . More clean this way. Me clean. Need more lemon pledge.

It is cool to have it, tho (QQ).

Edited November 30, 2013 by Daex

[EzioMessi]

Wow... i am deeply disappointed by some of the answers here.

 

Apparantly to ask for more content, content i am willing to pay for and will expand the game, without any conditions is something to be criticised. I ask those people, if that is not what you want, why are you still here?

 

Despite all the atempts to troll my post and what is clear i will try to make it clearer, though i think it will make little difference. By boxed expansion i mean continuation of the story, new planets, new flashpoints, new warzones. Exactly what you would expect of a boxed expansion for every other MMO.

 

Boxed expansions are extremely important, not only for the obvious plus of the content but to keep the game present and refreshed in the heads of the consumers by a retail presence. I dont know of an MMORPG game that has achieved much sucess with simply small content patches. I am a fan of SWTOR, i merely want more, and yet even i can tell that this model will simply bring a slow death to the game. If theres no game to play, people wont stick around. This wont work without major expansions, it will only drag on. And personally i would like to see this game rise and not quietly falling into irrelevancy.

 

The problem is that box-sized expansions have an extremely long development. So you'll have a huge amount of content every 2-3 years. This is awesome for less hardcore players, but players who play at a hardcore level will chew through the 2 years of content in a month. Then what? Do they subscribe for 1 year 11 months of boredom? Or do they unsub? And if they unsub, how is Bioware going to get the money for their next expansion which will bring these players back for another month? And it's extremely hard to maintain both the current "every .x patch brings new stuff" system and the box sized expansions bringing a ton of stuff.

 

Let's say there were no content updates between 1.0 and 2.0. The players would have had 3 Ops, 3 Warzones, a dozen FPs, and 8 class stories.

 

Now imagine if 2.0 was a box sized expansion. It would have had 2 new Ops, 2 New Warzones, HK-51, Ilum, Makeb, all the FPs added between 1.0 and 2.0, they added the Legacy System, added the Group Finder, and whatever other gazillions of things they added. Hell let's assume they released Chapter 4 of the class stories too.

 

So, they gave us the same content (minus the class stories). Except, the payerbase is all but gone. They played a game intended for the story, spacebarred through the story, finished a year's worth of content in a month, got bored and left. Sure the massive sub drop is something that happened in our current system too. Except, do you really think they would have survived the drop if all the players who came in with f2P saw that they would have to wait at least a year more for new content?nope. It would have died right then and there.

 

This is why i think smaller digital updates are a lot better than massive expansions.

[aeterno]

That's a bit of a false dilemma, games with boxed expansions still tend to do content patches.

 

You'd kinda be hard pressed to say TOR pushed out a lot more content than WoW did between MOP and the upcoming expansion... We got what 2 raids, they patched in 2 to the ones they shipped with. PvP side they defiantly got more. Daily areas I'm unsure of, but Blizz is trying stuff like scenarios.

 

So saying it's fine we're not getting a full expansion is OK cos we're getting more, just sprinkled out a bit, is a bit self-fooling. I guess it's true if you assume the teams working on content updates would all bar none have to be pulled to work on the xpac but again that just showcases the lack of commitment/muscle behind the game.

 

If that's the case I for one am not thrilled this game is apparently only living hand to mouth. I kinda wish for more. And I doubt the devs would say no to doing it (a full boxed xpac) either if the publisher opened up the checkbook again.

Edited November 30, 2013 by aeterno

[Nemmar]

The problem is that box-sized expansions have an extremely long development. So you'll have a huge amount of content every 2-3 years. This is awesome for less hardcore players, but players who play at a hardcore level will chew through the 2 years of content in a month. Then what? Do they subscribe for 1 year 11 months of boredom? Or do they unsub? And if they unsub, how is Bioware going to get the money for their next expansion which will bring these players back for another month? And it's extremely hard to maintain both the current "every .x patch brings new stuff" system and the box sized expansions bringing a ton of stuff.

 

Let's say there were no content updates between 1.0 and 2.0. The players would have had 3 Ops, 3 Warzones, a dozen FPs, and 8 class stories.

 

Now imagine if 2.0 was a box sized expansion. It would have had 2 new Ops, 2 New Warzones, HK-51, Ilum, Makeb, all the FPs added between 1.0 and 2.0, they added the Legacy System, added the Group Finder, and whatever other gazillions of things they added. Hell let's assume they released Chapter 4 of the class stories too.

 

So, they gave us the same content (minus the class stories). Except, the payerbase is all but gone. They played a game intended for the story, spacebarred through the story, finished a year's worth of content in a month, got bored and left. Sure the massive sub drop is something that happened in our current system too. Except, do you really think they would have survived the drop if all the players who came in with f2P saw that they would have to wait at least a year more for new content?nope. It would have died right then and there.

 

This is why i think smaller digital updates are a lot better than massive expansions.

 

As Aeterno said, that isnt necessarely the case. The small content patches are hardly making a dent (how long are we gonna last with daily areas and ocasional op or flashpoint?). You can still keep one of two of these patches with dailies in and develop an expansion. They just have to come to us and say: We are making a full expansion so the expansion patches will be a slower for a while. The advantage is that after the expansion launches, you got alot more than the sum of patches you didnt get.

At the end of the day, lots of people return when the expansion launches aswell, and give the game a new chance.

Its well worth it, in my opinion. I would go so far as to say, its necessary.

 

By the way, Ilum was out at launch.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Nemmar

[branmakmuffin]

How do you measure a "box sized" expansion? Does it need to be 10x8 inches?

He's European. It needs to be 25x20cm.

Edited December 2, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Andryah]

Wow... i am deeply disappointed by some of the answers here.

 

Apparantly to ask for more content, content i am willing to pay for and will expand the game, without any conditions is something to be criticised. I ask those people, if that is not what you want, why are you still here?

 

Despite all the atempts to troll my post and what is clear i will try to make it clearer, though i think it will make little difference. By boxed expansion i mean continuation of the story, new planets, new flashpoints, new warzones. Exactly what you would expect of a boxed expansion for every other MMO.

 

Boxed expansions are extremely important, not only for the obvious plus of the content but to keep the game present and refreshed in the heads of the consumers by a retail presence. I dont know of an MMORPG game that has achieved much sucess with simply small content patches. I am a fan of SWTOR, i merely want more, and yet even i can tell that this model will simply bring a slow death to the game. If theres no game to play, people wont stick around. This wont work without major expansions, it will only drag on. And personally i would like to see this game rise and not quietly falling into irrelevancy.

 

If you cannot deal with people disagreeing with you and telling you why they disagree, might be best not to post in a public discussion forum. And playing the "troll card" as an ad hominem toward people who disagree with you is not particularly endearing to your desire to be heard on your views.

 

Many people both recognize and appreciate that smaller expacs more frequently are at least as good as larger expacs less frequently... and many actually think they are better. Why? Because a continuing stream of smaller expacs is better then waiting 2-3 years for the big one. You can disagree if you like, but you cannot deny other players having different views then you have.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

As Aeterno said, that isnt necessarely the case. The small content patches are hardly making a dent (how long are we gonna last with daily areas and ocasional op or flashpoint?). You can still keep one of two of these patches with dailies in and develop an expansion.

 

Which is exactly what they have been doing. Stop pretending otherwise, and stop clouding your own discussion thread by flip-flopping back and forth between discussing expacs and normal content patching.

 

Game will have completed two expacs before it's even two years old... RoTHC and GS. And we probably will see another one by summer. The three combined will likely equal the size of a major box only expac. and still have been released faster then most MMOs release a major expac (digital or boxed).

 

IMO.. the people that crave large boxed epacs are people that like to binge and consume then unsub for two or three years until the next expac. It is essentially playing an MMO as though it was a consume and discard single player game.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Andryah

[chuixupu]

Boxed expansions are extremely important, not only for the obvious plus of the content but to keep the game present and refreshed in the heads of the consumers by a retail presence. I dont know of an MMORPG game that has achieved much sucess with simply small content patches.

 

What MMO other than WoW has achieved "much success"? I know Gw2 flat out said they will not do expansions.

All of EVE's expansions have been free digital downloads. EVE is arguably one of the more successful MMOs out there next to WoW. Quite a few other MMOs do smaller DLCs as well.

 

The biggest problem with "boxed" expansions is the huge amount of money they have to pay to reserve space at convenience stores (which are quickly dying to to the popularity of DLC anyway), which they still have to pay even if they end up having to postpone release.

Edited November 30, 2013 by chuixupu

[gorstram]

Which is exactly what they have been doing. Stop pretending otherwise, and stop clouding your own discussion thread by flip-flopping back and forth between discussing expacs and normal content patching.

 

Game will have completed two expacs before it's even two years old... RoTHC and GS. And we probably will see another one by summer. The three combined will likely equal the size of a major box only expac. and still have been released faster then most MMOs release a major expac (digital or boxed).

 

IMO.. the people that crave large boxed epacs are people that like to binge and consume then unsub for two or three years until the next expac. It is essentially playing an MMO as though it was a consume and discard single player game.

 

No one burns through content in a month like you had said in a previous post. And the people who want large boxed xpacs aren't looking for something they can consume and then unsub from. The previous experiences we had with "The Other Game," were that we would grind the bajeezus out of those new raids and dungeons for a year to get a complete set of loot from bosses, farm for legendaries, rep grind for vanity items (this game doesn't support rep grinding thorugh Ops unfortunately).

 

When it comes to content, the people really getting it are the non-raiding folks. New arenas, new space PvP, new daily areas, but the instanced content is slow coming. The flashpoints and operations that are released are small and easily done in one night (with the exception of S&V, that's a proper raid imho).

 

I would like to see more operations content. Add a new wing onto TFB, or perhaps give us a CZ-198 raid, something. We shouldn't just be getting a flashpoint and daily quest hubs every six months.

[Nemmar]

What MMO other than WoW has achieved "much success"? I know Gw2 flat out said they will not do expansions.

All of EVE's expansions have been free digital downloads. EVE is arguably one of the more successful MMOs out there next to WoW. Quite a few other MMOs do smaller DLCs as well.

 

The biggest problem with "boxed" expansions is the huge amount of money they have to pay to reserve space at convenience stores (which are quickly dying to to the popularity of DLC anyway), which they still have to pay even if they end up having to postpone release.

 

Gw2 is a failure. Revenue is dropping alot aswell as population. They will have to launch an expansion or a sequal to stay afloat. Why? Cause it makes money.

 

EVE is a special case. Its a cheap game to develop and its a different kind of MMO. I made sure to mention MMORPG because of that. In essence EVE is more a game of RTS than a MMORPG. Also, it makes profit, but nothing that would turn heads at EA, wich is the publisher were dealing with here.

Expansions make money, and thats the truth of it. The current model we are in is a slow death. The model with an expansion is an up and down one, but makes more money and brings players back. Regardless, even if it was digital only i would be happy, aslong as it was a meaty expansion that could make ripples that the gaming community could see.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Nemmar

[Nemmar]

Which is exactly what they have been doing. Stop pretending otherwise, and stop clouding your own discussion thread by flip-flopping back and forth between discussing expacs and normal content patching.

 

Game will have completed two expacs before it's even two years old... RoTHC and GS. And we probably will see another one by summer. The three combined will likely equal the size of a major box only expac. and still have been released faster then most MMOs release a major expac (digital or boxed).

 

IMO.. the people that crave large boxed epacs are people that like to binge and consume then unsub for two or three years until the next expac. It is essentially playing an MMO as though it was a consume and discard single player game.

 

I'm sorry but just no. A digital expansion the size we have gotten is not the same as a proper expansion. What we are getting is DLC equivalent to what you get on console games. For example a Fallout or Skyrim DLC also increases the level cap. They are considered DLC and priced as such. They are not expansions.

 

You are not beeing reasonale with you assumptions there over what people that want expansion are. At the end of the day, it would have given you more content than you normally would and more paying players temporarely into the game, even assuming they would leave. There would be no down side.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Nemmar