Jeweledleah Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Not by that definition... I mean, I paid for my security key, so by the OP's (and your) definition i paid for the CC I get each month. I have mine free on a smartphone. the little keychain was a one time purchase NOT a continuous payment. so even if you did pay for it once, each subsequent monthly grant you get? is free. becasue you don't have to buy anything anymore to keep getting it. please, try again. and please no idiotic slippery slope arguments about how the phone is not free, pc is not free, internet is not free - THOSE have no relation to a specific company and their specific payment plan. we're looking at subscription/cartel coins - don't bring unrelated extras into it. Edited November 24, 2013 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Well anything you have to pay for to get access to is not free. Simple as that. @OddballEasyEight: That stays in no connection to what I stated. @Jeweledleah: Then I am sorry, that I misunderstood you And I could not have said it better then you did with your post above mine. Edited November 24, 2013 by Brexten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 By extention one could say that the game isn't free either then since it requires you to have a certain level of PC, so you have to at least buy that before playing. But I did not get any cartel coins when I built my computer. So does that mean the cartel coins are not free at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well does it really matter what the OP's personal definition of free is? Its an argument of semantics anyways. Practically speaking there is little difference between a discount and free benefits. The fact of the matter is that Bioware revised the subscription model to provide additional benefits to subscribers without charging subscribers an additional fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well does it really matter what the OP's personal definition of free is? Its an argument of semantics anyways. Practically speaking there is little difference between a discount and free benefits. The fact of the matter is that Bioware revised the subscription model to provide additional benefits to subscribers without charging subscribers an additional fee. Apparently the OP has nothing better to do than to troll over semantics. Whether you call it free or not it doesn't change a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Apparently the OP has nothing better to do than to troll over semantics. Whether you call it free or not it doesn't change a thing. Is stating my own opinion now trolling?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I really don't see an argument in this being valid. If I pay for something and I get something added on top of that, it is a bonus. If it's something I want and use, it is a great bonus! You have to understand some people may look at it as "hey, I didn't pay for the coins but I still get them every month" so they are free to them. It doesn't really matter if you think of it as a "bonus" or "free". What you get at the end is the same thing. Leave people to think of it how it is. Don't let something like this, that is strictly about how you think it SHOULD be thought about, create an argument. It's silly. If somebody wants to think of it as a bonus. Fine. If somebody wants to think of them as free cartel coins. Fine. Let's not get into a discussion about principal and philosophy on how we should think if cartel coins every month are free or a bonus. It's a nice added bonus to my subscription and I don't have to pay for them so it is "free" in a way. Spun it both ways for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 How is that not actually true...? If an item is $5, but buy 2 get 1 free, that means you only pay $10 for three, meaning the third is in fact free. If you were not given the monthly coins, you would have to buy them, which would be an additional $5 a month, i.e. $20. Since you're only paying $15 a month for subscription + coins, that means the coin are in fact free. From a marketing perspective what he said is true. BTGO is a marketing strategy. The store is still profiting. However his analogy is flawed. They are as free as the third item in "buy 2 get 1 free" sales is. Not really free, but the marketing department labels them so because the sense of something "free" always appeals to the baser human instincts, despite not actually being true. Using the "retail" analogy it is more like: Every month you go to the same store and buy the same stuff at the same price. Then one day, the manager walks up to you and says, "for being a loyal customer we are giving you a gift certificate. The caveat is that it can only be used on stuff other than your 'normal' purchases. Furthermore, because of your past loyalty we are retroactively applying this to all your previous purchases. So here is a large gift certificate that covers your past loyalty. And so long as you are a loyal customer we will continue to give you a gift certificate to buy stuff that you do not normally purchase. Thank you for being a loyal customer." Aren't they called complementary cartel coins? THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Yes, complimentary. Which is also defined as given for free, although it's usually used in the context of being given along with something else you buy. You know, like the "complimentary continental breakfast" you get at hotels. It's not an unusual concept and nothing to get angry over. However, I think the important thing to consider is that they actually expect us to use our cartel coin grant to use towards new items. The model is changed, prior to the F2P switch we would not be looking to acquire items that can't be be bought with real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Of all the threads i've seen complaining, this has got to be up there with a huge waste of time. Complaining about whether something is truly free when paying for something else. using your premis, the 500 are paid, fine. I will argue those are semantics but ok, fine, they are paid. The 100 i get for downloading a free app to add security to my account is 100% FREE. Since by your own definition I only paid for the first 500, thus the extra 100 are 100% FREEEEE!!!! QED /Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 It's still semantics... If you get two things for the price of one, the discount translates into one of them technically being free. Subscribers have to pay nothing extra for those cartel coins. This has to be one of the most nitpicky threads I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Of all the threads i've seen complaining, this has got to be up there with a huge waste of time. Complaining about whether something is truly free when paying for something else. using your premis, the 500 are paid, fine. I will argue those are semantics but ok, fine, they are paid. The 100 i get for downloading a free app to add security to my account is 100% FREE. Since by your own definition I only paid for the first 500, thus the extra 100 are 100% FREEEEE!!!! QED /Thread I never said that the SK CC weren't free Well my whole argument is about semantics indeed. I do not like to get rubbed under my nose how "awesome" they are for giving us those "free" coins. It's standart. Any other F2P MMO gives you ammout X for a sub per month in their ingame shop currency (Exampels: Star Trek Online, Lord of the Rings Online etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatology Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Subscribers should get ALL content without additional charge. "Free cartel coins" is a cop-out EA tried to use to placate and retain subscriber money. Anyone who doesnt understand OP is either: A.) lieing to themselves to appease the inner Id. B.) unreasonable, and therefore doesnt belong in this conversation C.) a paid employee/stockholder You whiteknights and sheeple arent fooling anyone. Edited November 24, 2013 by Spatology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Subscribers should get ALL content without additional charge. "Free cartel coins" is a cop-out EA tried to use to placate and retain subscriber money. Anyone who doesnt understand OP is either: A.) lieing to themselves to appease the inner Id. B.) unreasonable, and therefore doesnt belong in this conversation C.) a paid employee/stockholder You whiteknights and sheeple arent fooling anyone. do us a favor then..and leave. If you don't like it don't play it and don't pay for it. What gameplay content do you not get? anything offered in the CM is cosmetic and not required for a complete game experience. Adding the ad hominem attacks just makes you seem, well childish and little. The game is what it is, its a hybrid f2p and microtransactions. I suppose they could cancel everyones subscriptions and make everyone use microtransactions but they know it would cause people to stop playing. IF you don't like playing it, don't but bashing those that do isn't helping anything, and just makes anything said with personal attacks seem worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Subscribers should get ALL content without additional charge. "Free cartel coins" is a cop-out EA tried to use to placate and retain subscriber money. Anyone who doesnt agree with the OP is either: A.) lieing to themselves to appease the inner Id. B.) unreasonable, and therefore doesnt belong in this conversation C.) a paid employee/stockholder You whiteknights and sheeple arent fooling anyone. There, fixed it for ya... because holding a different opinion than someone complaining is always being a sheep or a whiteknight (surprised you didn't use the newer, more popular term of apologist). Also, as someone pointed out earlier, they arent phrased as "free" but as "complementary", thus negating the OP's whole argument. Edited November 24, 2013 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 There, fixed it for ya... because holding a different opinion than someone complaining is always being a sheep or a whiteknight (surprised you didn't use the newer, more popular term of apologist). Also, as someone pointed out earlier, they arent phrased as "free" but as "complementary", thus negating the OP's whole argument. Not true for all This is why I started this thread. I am German and even though I am playing on "The Proginator" I still get the mails in German. And in those they are called "kostenlose Kartellmünzen" which translated into English is: Free Cartel Coins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Pretty much this. Our subscription price has stayed the same, but the monthly cartel coins are extra, something we did not receive before. Therefore they are, by definition, free. /Signed. com·pli·men·ta·ry 2: given free as a courtesy or favor <complimentary tickets> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complimentary OP can pretend otherwise until blue in the face, but it does not change the fact. Edited November 24, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Not true for all This is why I started this thread. I am German and even though I am playing on "The Proginator" I still get the mails in German. And in those they are called "kostenlose Kartellmünzen" which translated into English is: Free Cartel Coins! Oh so it's a matter of poor translation then? That's a whole different story. (also kostenlose kartellmünzen would translate more to free-of-charge cartel coins, or cartel coins without cost. And that they are, as long as you are a subscriber.) I wonder if the OP flies off the handle if he is at a hotel and gets a "free meal" with his booking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Oh so it's a matter of poor translation then? That's a whole different story. (also kostenlose kartellmünzen would translate more to free-of-charge cartel coins, or cartel coins without cost. And that they are, as long as you are a subscriber.) I wonder if the OP flies off the handle if he is at a hotel and gets a "free meal" with his booking... Thanks for quoting and insulting me at the same time And no kostenlos is free Not free of charge That combined with the fact that they try to look awesome while doing something generic is what is annyoing me. If they weren't giveing us coins then hell would break loose my friends, since any other F2P MMO which offers subs offers you amount X in the ingame store too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thanks for quoting and insulting me at the same time And no kostenlos is free Not free of charge That combined with the fact that they try to look awesome while doing something generic is what is annyoing me. If they weren't giveing us coins then hell would break loose my friends, since any other F2P MMO which offers subs offers you amount X in the ingame store too. You're welcome. And I suppose those other games don't quote those extra coins as "complementary" or "free"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brexten Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) You're welcome. And I suppose those other games don't quote those extra coins as "complementary" or "free"? Nope those other games state what they are. They are part of your sub and you have to pay for them. They are not some gracious gift from the kind and holy developers... Edited November 24, 2013 by Brexten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Nope those other games state what they are. They are part of your sub and you have to pay for them. They are not some gracious gift from the kind and holy developers... So you have tried all of the games that have that system then? Because you sound very sure. Also, the difference is that swtor didn't start out as a F2P hybrid, so those coins are, in fact, complementary as they weren't part of the subscription from the start. Edited November 24, 2013 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 They are as free as the third item in "buy 2 get 1 free" sales is. Not really free, but the marketing department labels them so because the sense of something "free" always appeals to the baser human instincts, despite not actually being true. I'm going to assume in your example here you are going with the "they mark the price up a bit get you to buy 2 of them and give the illusion of a free 3rd item" here because otherwise buy 2 get 1 free would actually be getting the third 1 for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Nope those other games state what they are. They are part of your sub and you have to pay for them. They are not some gracious gift from the kind and holy developers... LOTRO * +100% XP for 30% of a level (daily upon login). **Helm's Deep Riders of Rohan™, Rise of Isengard™, Mines of Moria™ and Siege of Mirkwood™ are not included. Once you have activated your subscription your first month of FREE monthly Turbine Points (500 Points) should be applied within 48 hours of upgrading your account. The bold was direct copy from their site..not edited by me. ITs not something that SWTOR is just making up, so not sure what the overall argument is. Since in fact LOTRO was one of the games quoted as NOT saying FREE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Nope those other games state what they are. They are part of your sub and you have to pay for them. They are not some gracious gift from the kind and holy developers... uhm... http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip Click - "Compare the Benefits" "FREE monthly Turbine Coins" - VIP= 500/month Awkward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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