More tanks are required.

[WestXv]

I've been a tank since beta and back then I was a jugg tank even though they weren't that great back then and I love it there's something about knowing you can jst jump into battle with blows bouncing off you like a boss that's attractive but now I'm trying to get dps gear for my jugg for the first time in 2 yrs and I realize its difficult to do so.

[Loc_n_lol]

nearly nothing that drops in flashpoints is any good. things that coms buy you are almost universally crappy. how is that supposed to encourage tanks to queue exactly? the only way to get decent gear is either spend a lot of credits or have a raiding main/alt that can mail some of the better ops gear to you.

 

Gotta agree with this, gearing up a tank as a pugger just doesn't seem practical. I'm trying to get my Shadow tank up to speed as my first endgame tank, but the outlook isn't good. You can forget about drops because the best implants and earpiece are crafted anyway, and every other piece of gear is GTN/vendor trash. Basic comms are easy enough to acquire but half the black-market gear comes with alacrity/accuracy, so you need to buy the few pieces that don't, mutliple times.

Verpine gear basically brings a lot more endurance, a little fewer mitigation stats, the same problems, and largely amounts to an e-peen boost. This is actually important because as a tank, nobody will take you seriously if you're not sporting more HP than your average healer / DPS (and I'm just talking SM TFB/S&V). And indeed, how am I supposed to hold aggro for any length of time in a mix of Arkanian/Verpine gear against Deepses in full Oriconian ?

Getting a 72 main hand... yep, there goes a million credits, I'll just start needing on all the crafting materials to make up for that.

 

I've got a 4-pieces set of arkanian armorings from my healer main, who has no problems whatsoever getting invited into pug ops groups and doesn't need any set bonuses to do the job, but as a tank on the way to gearing up, the best pug ops I can hope for is a spot as off-tank for TC SM. Well, that, and insta-pops for any HM flashpoints, no problems here, but the utility of elite comms is becoming questionable at this point and I'm not going to get ultimates anytime soon with the weekly alone...

 

Not to mention, the job comes with significantly more frequent repair bills than other roles, knowledge of boss fight mechanics is paramount, and many of these only the tank needs to worry about.

 

So overall, it feels like playing as the tank I have to put twice the effort for half the rewards (in gear and credits, I do enjoy the experience most of the time, otherwise I would have stopped).

But yes, I almost never have to wait in the group finder. Neither do my healer toons, yet the job and gear progression are much easier and half the time I'm just playing as the third DPS anyway.

 

 

 

As for levelling, I find levelling as a tank spec to be completely viable. The damage isn't that bad and the reduced incoming damage means less need to rest between fights and no need for a healbot comp. Admitedly, with good tanking gear being so hard to come by, that leaves little time to build a dps gear on the side, so field respec isn't much of an option, unless you want to experiment with an hybrid build.

 

Levelling as a healer on the other hand, I would never do again.

If you use a DPS comp, then not only are you out-dpsing them but also generating additional threat while healing, which means you're tanking, except... not. And serious healing while focussed by enemies is almost impossible, so you're just a weaker DPS than can sometimes get out of a tough spot with a quick heal.

If using a tank comp your overall DPS plummets and playing support to an NPC isn't exactly glamorous, or enticing.

Fortunately, healer gear and DPS gear are very compatible, accuracy nonwithstanding, so buying the field respec perk solves those problems handily, I level / do dailies as DPS and respec to healer when I want to do group content without waiting.

 

 

So. For me the problem isn't that tanking is boring or not viable in solo, it's that it comes with responsibilities, really isn't for first-timers at all, and you can't get away with nearly as much without anyone noticing. You'll take the blame for any mistakes. You'll take the blame for being underlevelled / undergeared compared to the rest of the group even if you do meet and exceed the recommended level and gear. Nobody questions why a DPS needs to run content that is several orders of magnitude below their level and gear, you just have to be better.

And of course, if it is the rest of the group who fails, you go down first, sometimes alone, sometimes multiple times if the healer decides to revive you instead of wiping.

[Mallorik]

I'm not talking about best in slot gear. I'm talking about STARTER gear, the kind you are supposed to be buying with basic coms, to start running flashpoints etc. not that verpine (elite com) gear is any better.

 

nearly nothing that drops in flashpoints is any good. things that coms buy you are almost universally crappy. how is that supposed to encourage tanks to queue exactly? the only way to get decent gear is either spend a lot of credits or have a raiding main/alt that can mail some of the better ops gear to you.

 

my tanks for the longest time (as in, while I was still gearing my main and primary alt) sat in their 66 crafted gear. which is supposed to be enough to run flashpoints right? but isn't. why isn't it? becasue you have to compensate for other people. you have to compensate for dps who refuses to wait for you to get even one hit in, for cc, doesn't want to lift a finger to control their threat, *****es about your low level gear, etc etc etc. you sometimes have to compensate for undergeared and/or underskilled healers. and all of that? for the privilege of getting crap gear that doesn't improve your character at all.

I'm not saying that gear should be given out. but I'm saying that making it harder than it should be to get ANY decent gear. forget BIS. just... decent. is counterproductive. why. why would tanks go through all this headache?

 

You don't need bis gear to run fps, if your head has some alacrity and your gloves have some accuracy that is not going to cause your death I hve three tanks and I geared them all out in fps and ops. I agree that the gear itemization is a joke in this game (oroconian tank implants) but that does not have a negative effect on fp que times.

 

People being morons is another matter, and theres really nothing Bioware can do about that.

[GalacticKegger]

The situation with the class imbalance in FP queues has hit ridiculous proportions for DPS with 2 hour waits being the norm (16 hours without a pop was my record) and about 10-20 minutes for a healer. While tanks get an instant pop. (I gathered this info myself since I have a DPS, a healer and a tank character)

 

Something needs to be done to attract DPS or healer players to want to play a tank like adding more damage dealing capacity to tanks would be a good start to attract a DPS player to want to play a tank, or make the role of tank optional with some new 55 HMs so that DPS players can get their weekly done in a time-frame comparable to tanks.

 

What has prompted this is that I have noticed that several tanks are now charging 100k per DPS in a group for the 'privilege' of 'allowing' them to get their elite commendations. They usually do this by either forming their group in general fleet chat, or using the group finder then DEMANDING 100k off each DPS before they begin.

16 hours, even with pops, should be a record unto itself! But ya, DPS in every MMO I've ever played that featured the tank/dps/heals holy trinity invariably winds up with long queue times. Though honestly, I've never had to wait as DPS longer than 20 minutes. Harbinger, Begeren Colony & Jedi Covenant are the servers I play on.

 

I personally love tanking. Give me 1 taunt, 1 aggro bomb, 1 CC stun, 1 interrupt and a breathing healer and I'll tank Godzilla with a whiffle bat and a Frisbee. And I'm a casual. But in serious commentary, I think the reason is twofold.

 

First: MMOs are designed now more around the casual player because more casual players play than hardcores. They pay the bills. Most casuals aren't bad players, they just schedule the game around their life, not the other way around. So the devotion to learning advanced technique isn't there. Thus, tanking can feel like an overwhelming responsibility for players who aren't practiced at it or can't make the commitment to fully learn how to properly apply their character abilities ... or how to lead a party.

 

In today's MMO gaming world of casual-dominant playerss ... that tanks traditionally are expected to operate as party leaders I think is the reason there are so few of them.

 

If the tank isn't keeping up then mobs run amuck and the party dies. If heals isn't keeping up then the party dies. If DPS isn't keeping up (and isn't mindlessly breaking CCs), then the fight simply lasts longer. Casuals can live with that. Unless of course there's an enrage timer. But if a DPSer's first boss fight features an enrage timer, then they should maybe focus on completing lower level FPs to learn what their characters can and can't do.

 

Second: is both what I mentioned above, combined with the elitist jerk mentality that WoW created with their cross server PvE queue system. Players who are willing to learn and are looking for mentorship simply do not want to incur the wrath of asswipes for their efforts. Every MMO I've ever played I found a guild that enjoyed teaching. I became a progression tank in WoW with Incite from "interning." It became a 6 day a week job and eventually burned me out.

 

Stories like that + previous experience with the aforementioned asswipes = not worth being a tank for many.

 

TOR is all but removing the need for tanks in the lower level flashpoints to address this. But it won't be enough. To tank is to lead. To lead is to orchestrate the fights. To orchestrate the fights takes reps. And today's MMORPG core casual player base simply does not have the time available to put in those reps.

 

I believe the only way to address everything is to have 4 versions of every flashpoint and heroic:

• a solo version;
  
• a tank not required version;
  
• the current 4-player version where 2 players + companions can also progress; and
  
• a version retuned for 5, maybe even 6 players to accommodate extra DPS.
  

 

That would be a LOT of work. Too much most likely. I think starting out with 4-player flashpoints that required tank & heals was a less than stellar choice imho. So in commenting directly to the OP ... we really do need more players to feel comfortable with tanking. How that happens without nerfing tank technique into fertilizer for the players who relish the challenge of raw tanking is the quandary.

 

So who among us will volunteer to start up a Tankspot for SWTOR?

Edited November 15, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[benovide]

As a BH dominant player now, (I'm obsessed with my latest Powertech) on Ebon Hawk, I can spend as long as 4 or 5 hours to queue up as my Marauder, Sniper, Operative, or Assassin. But my Juggernaut instant queues, as does my Powertech, Vanquard, and so fourth. My Sorc as a healer is lucky to spend 3 minutes in a queue.

 

The longest I have ever waited for my Powertech to queue, was 5 minutes at 3 am in the morning.

[Akusoduzan]

That's not the norm, my DPS alt almost never waits more than 10mins. Ridiculous exaggerations do not help your point, they detract from it.

 

agreed i also never have a problem to find a group at lvl 55 i only need to wait perhaps 20 minutes...

[slafko]

Couldn't be more wrong IMO. Leveling to 55 in tank gear has NO EFFECT on how good of a tank you will be when you start running end game FPs. None. Zero. Leveling does NOT teach you how to play a tank. Running Flashpoints does, mainly end game flashpoints. Same with healing.

 

Leveling as tank teaches you to keep that damned Kinetic Ward up and recast it on cooldown. Also, it teaches you how to play a tank.

[GalacticKegger]

Couldn't be more wrong IMO. Leveling to 55 in tank gear has NO EFFECT on how good of a tank you will be when you start running end game FPs. None. Zero. Leveling does NOT teach you how to play a tank. Running Flashpoints does, mainly end game flashpoints. Same with healing.

 

You learn by running end game FPs and Ops. Therefore, spec swap would make no difference...at level 55 you are just as green as a tank as someone that is level 10 and a tank.

Yes and no imho.

 

Soloing does not teach tanking unless you (a) have a healer for a companion, and (b) accept challenges that could get you in over your head. In this scenario, the tank learns how to keep their healer companion up by keeping them mob free. They also learn stuff like AoE heal areas, which means kiting mobs into those areas. All of this is great practice if they know what they are looking for.

 

Having a playing partner who heals is also a killer learning tool. Both will likely field dps companions who (honestly) need babysitting. (Read: microing. ) That teaches "head on a swivel" multitasking, which provides priceless reps in learning how dps fits in, as well as what the tank should be recognizing.

 

The caveat is how advanced the encounters are. If it's simply blowing through regular mobs then, yes ... there is little value there. But the tank/healer player combo that wants to improve eventually learns and becomes more confident with the tank/heals dynamic and presses to pull more mobs. Those are KILLER reps for tanking because it provides the tank with OJT on aggro mechanics that keep the healer clean. Multiple trips to the repair droid reinforce it.

 

But that applies everywhere. I definitely agree that doing advanced content like FPs while leveling, as well as HMs & Ops, is where the tank learns whether or not their problem is technique related or gear related. It's just not exclusive imho.

 

Knowing the character's ability is 1/3 of the battle. Learning how to apply and adapt those abilities on the fly is 1/3 of the battle. Gear is 1/3rd of the battle. One has to master the first 2/3s to accomplish the final 3rd. It's all about quality reps, and quality reps can be had through leveling with the correct appraoch.

Edited November 15, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[HoloTweed]

It's simple. I don't mind playing a tank, but acquiring tank gear is another matter. If I queue for a dungeon I should be allowed to roll for tank gear exclusively. Likewise, I should also be allowed to roll for dps gear. I'm the one doing the tanking and if some class capable of tanking is dpsing and whines he will get a swift vote kick or removable from the group. DPS that can tank, but don't have no rights and should learn their place for not manning or womming up and tanking the instance.

 

If you're a tank, you should be giving clear road to all tank gear in your class. However - no, you don't get to roll NEED for DPS gear. You are the TANK. Otherwise, let's just all roll NEED for everything.

 

You don't get EXTRA freebies.

[Rafaman]

So.... I rolled a Shadow Tank and I have no issues waiting for anything. I know, hardly constructive, but my point is, roll a tank and contribute to a solution.

 

BTW, you will have a blast tanking even the lowbie FPs.

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

I seen a few posts asking to "normalize" class balance by increasing tank damage, I feel the conclusion of normalizing may be wrong.

 

A tank gives up damage to be a damage soaker, to which they are very good. In some other post long ago, I did a quicky analysis of the trades between an Inquisitor Assassin and an Invulnerable Juggernaut, both at mod 66 fully geared. And it turns out the Tank comes out way ahead of the DPS when you look at the whole thing as a whole. To "normalize things" you would need to nearly double the Inquisitor's damage to make up for their vastly inferior damage mitigation; such is the art of balance.

 

If you note in the DPS tank, you gain quite a bit of DPS, but do note how much you surrender in damage mitigation; why is this: Balance

 

Now the real question is: Are the balance points correct?

 

I suspect they are not, and really need to be more "mathematically" studied, and not just trial and error adjusted based on gut feeling.

 

I do have an Invulnerable Juggernaut I expressly leveld for tanking, and while I have tanked at many other MMORPGs successfully, I feel this game's taunt mechanics are too weak or simply off. I wish that each tank attack, while they inherently do less damage than other occupations should ahve an inherent area taunt effect, thus helping with preserving aggroe, the current AOE taunts are extremely short ranged and very weak with often mobs ignoring the taunt, the one reliable taunt is ranged and one single target but has a cool down that is too long. The tank only has one reliable interrupt, the others are pointless unless used with the weakest mobs in the game, but you are not there to tank the minions so what good are they?

 

Also another problem I see with the community, is how the various players see their roles...

 

For instance when I DPS, I see my predominant role as the Healer's body guard, and find myself responsible for their personal protection. As a result I need to be good enough to take on any adds on my own with some heal assistance, while the tank is enduring the boss. Instead I often see DPS players, all too happy banging at the boss, and then complaining because the tank failed to aggroe all the mobs in the map and the healer and thus dps players got hurt; the life of the tank would be much easier if the DPS took care of adds first, and then focus on the boss.

 

Sue

[Tsillah]

There are plenty of tanks...they're just not dumb enough to pug FP's. I rarely play FP's anymore as it is and on my tanks only when I am in a very charitable mood. It's just not worth it. I am so tired of dumb DPS who don't understand when to use aoe and when not, who break cc, who take too much damage because they think a red circle is ok to stand in and don't understand the basic kill orders causing healers to get aggro etc and then blame the tank or the healer.

 

I am also sick of level 55 healers who were too lazy to get at least 66 gear at level 53 and with barely over 20k health think they can heal 55 FP's. But that's a smaller issue.

 

The problem is not that there aren't enough tanks, the problem is that there are too many idiots in the GF. There I said it. You may feel offended but the truth is that if you are undergeared or have no idea how roles affect group play, then honestly you are ruining the fun of other people. That's why tanks have given up on FP's because they get blamed for stuff that's not their fault and get big repair bills that cost more than you earn from the FP.

[ZooMzy]

Gonna cut out a bit of your post, as I can completely agree with most of it. However, here's a few things I'd like to touch base with:

 

I do have an Invulnerable Juggernaut I expressly leveld for tanking, and while I have tanked at many other MMORPGs successfully, I feel this game's taunt mechanics are too weak or simply off. I wish that each tank attack, while they inherently do less damage than other occupations should ahve an inherent area taunt effect, thus helping with preserving aggroe, the current AOE taunts are extremely short ranged and very weak with often mobs ignoring the taunt, the one reliable taunt is ranged and one single target but has a cool down that is too long. The tank only has one reliable interrupt, the others are pointless unless used with the weakest mobs in the game, but you are not there to tank the minions so what good are they?

 

I think a large point of this is that you are referring to the weakness that Jug tanks have: maintaining agro. The Invulnerable Jug was designed to be a tank where your agro management is where your skill makes up for, as your damage medigation is easy to control and manage with playing the tank class with the most defensive CDs in the game.

 

The exact opposite is what I experience on my sin tank, where I can get agro so effectively, I can save my taunts for specifically tank swapping and not have to worry about blowing my AOE to make sure DPS don't pull the boss. However, like you stated above, the sin tank's weakness and test of skill comes from managing your defensive CDs and actually surviving through the burst damage phases. PT's are supposedly the happy median between the two, but I've heard that tanking wise, they are even more lacking than sin's pathetic self heals to gain medigation (thank God for the 2.5 buff)

 

Also another problem I see with the community, is how the various players see their roles...

 

This is honestly where I see the problem, rather than actually playing a tank. The entire server I play on is about 90% DPS, 8% healers, and 2% tanks. The reason being is that everyone wants to play the role of a saber swinging, blaster shooting, glass cannon not only because your role is simply to burn things, but at the same time, you can feel more of a contributor if you are able to specifically say "my job is to take the health points off the boss/players"

 

The reason why I believe healers number more than tanks too is that you can look at healing as the polar opposite as DPS. You are basically doing the same concept, except you're reversing the target and the effect. Thus, while still a heavy minority in comparison, you can still see a larger amount than tanks.

 

Then you have tanks, who are so radically different than those two, you rarely see anyone playing them. Many don't really understand how you sacrifice DPS as a tank (the bad tanks who will wail on one specific add, yet doesn't realize the rest of the mob needs to be targeting him too) and many more don't even understand how instrumental the role makes you as a mechanics player.

 

Thus, a lot of responsibility in ops comes from the tank being able to run certain mechanics, and if you can't, the fight is over before it even began. You hold a very strong responsibility that can be felt more than a DPS failing to beat the enrage timer, or even sometimes a player dying in the raid, and that's what makes it so discouraging. Because it's the only role where you take on a more prominent leadership position in the ops, and can easily be blamed for the mechanics wiping the group.

 

For instance when I DPS, I see my predominant role as the Healer's body guard, and find myself responsible for their personal protection. As a result I need to be good enough to take on any adds on my own with some heal assistance, while the tank is enduring the boss. Instead I often see DPS players, all too happy banging at the boss, and then complaining because the tank failed to aggroe all the mobs in the map and the healer and thus dps players got hurt; the life of the tank would be much easier if the DPS took care of adds first, and then focus on the boss.

 

I think this predominantly falls onto the reason why there are usually two tanks versus one in every group composition. DPS aren't exactly supposed to protect the healer; it's more of a seconday job as the priority for a DPS is to do just that: DPS. Tanks, by definition, are designed to soak damage, which means they are directly responsible for making sure anything and everything is not targeting another role.

 

Two tanks are supposedly able to cover this, but DPS sometimes have the utility to help out here if needed. But it's just like expecting DPS to use their self heals when they are getting attacked: it's secondary and excising utility, not performing a priority job.

[DarthTHC]

So.... I rolled a Shadow Tank and I have no issues waiting for anything. I know, hardly constructive, but my point is, roll a tank and contribute to a solution.

 

BTW, you will have a blast tanking even the lowbie FPs.

 

No, you won't. But at least in the lowbie FP's, DPS can screw up all they care to (and they do - a lot) and remain unlikely to wipe the party as long as the tank and healer are moderately competent.

 

Tanking the lowbie FP's is horrible if you're trying to teach DPS. They don't want to listen and nobody wants to vote-kick for not listening to things like "use your CC on that one [gear]" and "don't use AOE on this fight".

 

You must start teaching people in the lowbie instances if you want them to not be bads in the HM's.

[captpickles]

The situation with the class imbalance in FP queues has hit ridiculous proportions for DPS with 2 hour waits being the norm (16 hours without a pop was my record) and about 10-20 minutes for a healer. While tanks get an instant pop. (I gathered this info myself since I have a DPS, a healer and a tank character)

 

Something needs to be done to attract DPS or healer players to want to play a tank like adding more damage dealing capacity to tanks would be a good start to attract a DPS player to want to play a tank, or make the role of tank optional with some new 55 HMs so that DPS players can get their weekly done in a time-frame comparable to tanks.

 

What has prompted this is that I have noticed that several tanks are now charging 100k per DPS in a group for the 'privilege' of 'allowing' them to get their elite commendations. They usually do this by either forming their group in general fleet chat, or using the group finder then DEMANDING 100k off each DPS before they begin.

 

class divisions exist for a reason. if dps could tank there'd be -0- tanks.

[snakebam]

Pug's are a pain in the a.... HM/NiM ops are easier with a guild. I simply refuse to waist my time and nerves on hotshots who don't know what "target of target" is or nuke the cc target and expect the tank to perform miracles just to save them.

[wainot-keel]

Gotta agree with this, gearing up a tank as a pugger just doesn't seem practical. I'm trying to get my Shadow tank up to speed as my first endgame tank, but the outlook isn't good. You can forget about drops because the best implants and earpiece are crafted anyway, and every other piece of gear is GTN/vendor trash. Basic comms are easy enough to acquire but half the black-market gear comes with alacrity/accuracy, so you need to buy the few pieces that don't, mutliple times.

Verpine gear basically brings a lot more endurance, a little fewer mitigation stats, the same problems, and largely amounts to an e-peen boost. This is actually important because as a tank, nobody will take you seriously if you're not sporting more HP than your average healer / DPS (and I'm just talking SM TFB/S&V). And indeed, how am I supposed to hold aggro for any length of time in a mix of Arkanian/Verpine gear against Deepses in full Oriconian ?

Getting a 72 main hand... yep, there goes a million credits, I'll just start needing on all the crafting materials to make up for that.

 

People's obsession with how much health you have is a real problem if you pug. And it makes it rather discouraging to even try.

 

My guardian alt has full arkanian set, immunity/sturdiness 66 enhancements, veracity implants and ear, fully aug'd. Guess what, that's about 31k health, but I'm actually overgeared for TfB/S&V sm, I've tanked those on hm with my jugg in such gear (thank you legacy gear !), but the last few times was not cool pugging with my knight as tank.

 

One time got booted while the group was still getting assambled, after a couple of people commented on my health "sry m8, ur 2 low". Another time I was asked if I had dps gear 'cause they found another tank. The last time I tanked one of those 16man was S&V and I guess they let me just because it was rather late run and no one else responded. But of course, the shadow tank was immediately appointed main tank 'cause he had 39k health (all crap comm enhancements, endurance augments) . A shadow who kept dying on trash and bosses.

 

It sucks that I should make my stats crappier in order to have an easier time pugging as tank, but that's how it is. Perhpaps it'll be better once I have enough ulties for oriconian belts/bracers and perhaps verpine implants and ear (assuming there are non-accuracy ones) That'll be a huge boost to health without dropping mitigation much.

 

Flashpoints are not an issue since group finder takes care of the group and the others don't realize the harsh true until they are inside the instance and they are stuck with you

 

As for the main hand, it shouldn't be hard to get one. If you manage to clear one time either tfb or sv, then you have the mass manipulator and the isotopes you can get them with basic comms, which are easy to grind.

[LtBombshell]

I don't think that there are any concrete wait times for each role. It depends on the server, what time of day you log on, etc.

[Deluged]

Just a quick note on my experience with tanking. I never tank. All my years in MMO's I always play Nukers.

So to switch it up, and see what the tanks have to put up with, I rolled a PowerTech.

 

Tanking so far for me is a love hate thing. I love the playstyle of my PT, but I hate how much people but the owness on the tank to make everything work out right.

 

At level 24 I have limited agro gaining tools. Last night a lv-28 healer called me the worst tank ever after a 4 eltie, 1 champion fight. We got through the fight with zero casualties. I was feeling pretty good about it, then Mr, Healer felt the need to pop my little celebration.

He was firing off his big heals drawing aggro from the Champion constantly. If my taunt was off cool-down no sweat pulling him back to me. But those time I had nothing other than normal damage skills to use, the Healer got chased.

 

He said there is no way I should have lost aggro with the champ. I said why were you full healing me all the time when partial heals would have been good enough. He still dismissed it as my problem.

 

That's one experience. But in 24 level, its happened a few times. There is un-realistic expectations placed on tanks form my new perspective of being one.

And that's why people don't gravitate to tanks much. Why not be a nuker and have no responsibility other than to manage how much damage to do.

 

But I've made my mind up, I will not be chased away from tanking. I'll keep learning, and gaining new skills to do my best. But I'm blocking out the self righteous players who think they know everything about tanking, yet have never played one.

[Vandicus]

<snip>

 

Granted, he is higher level than you, but that he was drawing aggro from you on a single target(the Champion) is odd. Its normal for healers to sometimes draw from adds(as their aggro mechanics are aoe, which tanks can only emulate with their aoe damage abilities), but drawing from the main target of the tank is abnormal.

 

Which tanking AC were you playing btw?

[WestXv]

If I ever get abused in lowbie flashpoints as a tank I'll usually say "Well if you're gonna be like that do you want me to leave so you can wait an hour or 2 to get another tank and waste your time?" and usually that shuts them up.

[Mazikeen]

If I get abused as a tank, I bail and let them deal with it. I have alts and I can insta-queue on my tank if I want.

 

If the tank I have is abusive, I votekick them and replace them with Treek (low-level FPs) until we get a tank. Works moderately well, and Treek doesn't complain or do stupid stuff.

[LordArtemis]

Talking about problems with player competency, tank shortcomings, improper teamwork and the like is fine, naturally, but I think it moves away from the core issue some folks seem to have, and it's one that has been quite common since the game launched, but less common IMO since the server merge.

 

The idea that the game has a shortage of tanks that are willing to run PUGs. Note: I'm not saying that problem exists, only that some folks seem to feel it is a problem.

 

My suggestion to alleviate that is to allow folks to change spec on the fly. I still feel like being able to save a UI/quickbar/spec setup or two would be a great QoL feature. I think that just about every argument against this type of feature has had little to no merit...at least I have as of yet to see what I consider a valid logical reason why this would be a detriment.

 

The only one that had any teeth, IMO, was the idea that folks that level through a class have some basic knowledge on how to play that AC...but I feel that really not a detriment, since you have to relearn how to play your AC at end game. Most if not all of the new end game players I have seen were terribad at the beginning of end game.

 

I feel strongly that allowing folks to save a setup or two....which is purely a convenience feature IMO....would be a good addition to the game. I would point out that you can change your spec for free, change your UI, your quickbar setup right now, so it any "terribad at AC" issues exist they would already be represented in game IMO.

[Vandicus]

If I ever get abused in lowbie flashpoints as a tank I'll usually say "Well if you're gonna be like that do you want me to leave so you can wait an hour or 2 to get another tank and waste your time?" and usually that shuts them up.

 

In lowbie flashpoints tanking gear(actual mitigation stats) is practically nonexistent. The tank isn't all that different from a dps using taunts and guard. Just saying.

[disxion]

Talking about problems with player competency, tank shortcomings, improper teamwork and the like is fine, naturally, but I think it moves away from the core issue some folks seem to have, and it's one that has been quite common since the game launched, but less common IMO since the server merge.

 

The idea that the game has a shortage of tanks that are willing to run PUGs. Note: I'm not saying that problem exists, only that some folks seem to feel it is a problem.

 

My suggestion to alleviate that is to allow folks to change spec on the fly. I still feel like being able to save a UI/quickbar/spec setup or two would be a great QoL feature. I think that just about every argument against this type of feature has had little to no merit...at least I have as of yet to see what I consider a valid logical reason why this would be a detriment.

 

The only one that had any teeth, IMO, was the idea that folks that level through a class have some basic knowledge on how to play that AC...but I feel that really not a detriment, since you have to relearn how to play your AC at end game. Most if not all of the new end game players I have seen were terribad at the beginning of end game.

 

I feel strongly that allowing folks to save a setup or two....which is purely a convenience feature IMO....would be a good addition to the game. I would point out that you can change your spec for free, change your UI, your quickbar setup right now, so it any "terribad at AC" issues exist they would already be represented in game IMO.

 

I agree that dual spec would greatly help. I would love to switch between DPS spec when I am solo-ing and Tank spec in FPs/Ops. Personally when I solo content as a tank - particularly leveling as a tank - I get bored. Its slow, easy and boring as hell. Being able to easily switch between DPS for solo content to make it more enjoyable, and Tank for FPs would be a very welcome convenience.