More tanks are required.

[Mazikeen]

I am ready to play Tank, the issue is that I have no time to grind the stuff to be effective... Or I am not aware of a method to obtain fastly the stuff to start Hero Mode? If anyone has a good patch 2.3+ guide for this, I will thank him alot, and my server also will thank him as there will be a new Tank around

 

Get Legacy armor

Save comms on your main

As you level your tank, buy 72/78 gear with your main, put the mods in Legacy gear, mail it to your tank

By the time you hit 55 on your tank you'll have a full 72/78 set

[morfius]

I am ready to play Tank, the issue is that I have no time to grind the stuff to be effective... Or I am not aware of a method to obtain fastly the stuff to start Hero Mode? If anyone has a good patch 2.3+ guide for this, I will thank him alot, and my server also will thank him as there will be a new Tank around

 

Oricon quest line before dailies reward whole set of purple 66s (with items for both roles to choose) ... it is enough for HM FPs (if group know what to do).

Friend with crafting skills could assist to change some crappy mods/enhancements on those (alacrity/accuracy).

CZ & Oricon dailies are good for basic comms - 69s gear.

[slafko]

Thread:

More tanks are required.

 

Better tanks are required.

 

Standing in front of each mob and picking your nose for 5 seconds before each pull is not how tanking is done.

[Never_Hesitate]

Better tanks are required.

 

Standing in front of each mob and picking your nose for 5 seconds before each pull is not how tanking is done.

 

you are probably one of this ogog-DerPS who think a mob has to be jumped at as soon as it comes into sight.

[DKNS]

I created a Juggernaut a few weeks back. I reached 23 on it but am absolutely bored with the Tanking tree. Most of the tanking skills are based on Retaliation and Smash. I didn't like the Tanking tree one bit as it involved me depending on a RNG skill as well as a mediocre damage AoE skill.

 

Even tried a Jedi Shadow for tanking but i have seen from many parsers that their DPS is consistently poor compared to other hybrid classes. The tank tree is decent enough but the DPS tree isn't. And this is just not me. Just look at the Shadow / Assassin forums. Infiltration is a bit decent but it's just burst which won't help **** end-game.

 

Am yet to try a Powertech.

 

The point is, BW need to buff up the Tank classes and make em more interesting to play. You can see that we have a good number of Healers as compared to Tanks and that is because they have some great fun skills as well as their DPS is awesome when not in Healing tree, just look at Sorc, Merc DPS. Operative has a bit sub-par DPS again. But anyways, i myself won't be trying Tanks anytime soon until they make some good buffs. I can't tank all the way to 55 neither do i like depending on a RNG skill.

Edited November 19, 2013 by DKNS

[slafko]

you are probably one of this ogog-DerPS who think a mob has to be jumped at as soon as it comes into sight.

 

Actually, my main is tank and I prefer tanking to derpiesing. I firmly believe every mob has to be engaged if the team is above 80% health and energy. There are no reasons not to. Trash mobs in flashpoints are easily dealth with and derping around needlessly is only a waste of time.

[Marb]

The leveling experience as a tank is terrible. The main issue is the way the skill system works. Everyone loves to bash on wow's talent system, but it means that you get access to your core skills that are essential to your role at a much lower level, letting you use the full toolkit of the class during the leveling experience instead of in the last 15 levels before the cap.

 

There isn't much encouragement for tanks to queue at low level when they don't even have the skills to be a tank.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Marb

[slafko]

Even tried a Jedi Shadow for tanking but i have seen from many parsers that their DPS is consistently poor compared to other hybrid classes. The tank tree is decent enough but the DPS tree isn't. And this is just not me. Just look at the Shadow / Assassin forums. Infiltration is a bit decent but it's just burst which won't help **** end-game.

 

U MAD, BRO?

 

Shadow tank is the most awesome AC you can play in this game.

 

It's a great tank in operations and shines in general solo PvE grindfest. Stealth, Blackout, Force Speed, double-bladed lightsaber, Force Pull, ... There's nothing faster for grinding dailies than this awesomeness of an AC. Feel like killing mobs for loot? Fine. Summon Nadia wearing your DPS set and unleash PBAoE upon groups of enemies. Pressed on time? Fine. Pop stealth, blackout if needed, soft CC strategically and breeze through packs of mobs to your destination clicky thingy. Got aggro? Fine. The amount of punishment you can take is staggering and your DPS is more than enough to tackle everything general PvE can throw at you. You were speeding thru Section X and ended up in a collision with Dreadtooth? Pop Force Cloak and get the f*ck outta Dodge.

 

The only thing that's possibly a bit more awesome than a Shadow tank is an Assassin tank. And that's just because they have pretty lightning thingy instead of Pebbels of Doom. But they're Empire, which is evil and mean and that's not cool.

[disxion]

U MAD, BRO?

 

Shadow tank is the most awesome AC you can play in this game.

 

It's a great tank in operations and shines in general solo PvE grindfest. Stealth, Blackout, Force Speed, double-bladed lightsaber, Force Pull, ... There's nothing faster for grinding dailies than this awesomeness of an AC. Feel like killing mobs for loot? Fine. Summon Nadia wearing your DPS set and unleash PBAoE upon groups of enemies. Pressed on time? Fine. Pop stealth, blackout if needed, soft CC strategically and breeze through packs of mobs to your destination clicky thingy. Got aggro? Fine. The amount of punishment you can take is staggering and your DPS is more than enough to tackle everything general PvE can throw at you. You were speeding thru Section X and ended up in a collision with Dreadtooth? Pop Force Cloak and get the f*ck outta Dodge.

 

The only thing that's possibly a bit more awesome than a Shadow tank is an Assassin tank. And that's just because they have pretty lightning thingy instead of Pebbels of Doom. But they're Empire, which is evil and mean and that's not cool.

 

I like the Pebbles of Doom. I find it hilarious everytime I use Project; smacking trash with them rocks.

[slafko]

Rocks are nice, but nothing beats pulling a droid out of the ground and hurtling it towards a mob. Whoever said "let's add a chance for a droid project" is a genius and should get a statue outside the temple on Tython. Edited November 19, 2013 by slafko

[BrianDavion]

The leveling experience as a tank is terrible. The main issue is the way the skill system works. Everyone loves to bash on wow's talent system, but it means that you get access to your core skills that are essential to your role at a much lower level, letting you use the full toolkit of the class during the leveling experience instead of in the last 15 levels before the cap.

 

There isn't much encouragement for tanks to queue at low level when they don't even have the skills to be a tank.

 

a degree of truth there. guardians are especially "mid to rear loaded"

[DKNS]

U MAD, BRO?

 

Shadow tank is the most awesome AC you can play in this game.

 

It's a great tank in operations and shines in general solo PvE grindfest. Stealth, Blackout, Force Speed, double-bladed lightsaber, Force Pull, ... There's nothing faster for grinding dailies than this awesomeness of an AC. Feel like killing mobs for loot? Fine. Summon Nadia wearing your DPS set and unleash PBAoE upon groups of enemies. Pressed on time? Fine. Pop stealth, blackout if needed, soft CC strategically and breeze through packs of mobs to your destination clicky thingy. Got aggro? Fine. The amount of punishment you can take is staggering and your DPS is more than enough to tackle everything general PvE can throw at you. You were speeding thru Section X and ended up in a collision with Dreadtooth? Pop Force Cloak and get the f*ck outta Dodge.

 

The only thing that's possibly a bit more awesome than a Shadow tank is an Assassin tank. And that's just because they have pretty lightning thingy instead of Pebbels of Doom. But they're Empire, which is evil and mean and that's not cool.

 

I already said that the tank AC for a Shadow is good. My problem which i said in my earlier post as well was that the other 2 ACs don't dish out good DPS. I never argued about the tanking capabilities of a Shadow and of course having an "Oh **** !" invis ability always helps but the DPS isn't that good at all when compared to any of the other Hybrid classes except maybe Operative (let alone the pure DPS class).

Edited November 19, 2013 by DKNS

[slafko]

My point is that shadow tank is so freakin' awesome, you'd have to be crazy to play a shadow as dps.

 

But, if you *really* have to - their dps is perfectly good for all operations.

[Pirana]

As a tank, you have far more responsibility than other group members. You are the one who must lead the group through the flashpoint or operation, you are the one who must know fights like the back of your hand, you are the one who must train people who don't know them, you are the one who must come up with a strategy to beat an ops boss, assuming you don't just read from dulfy. You have to be aware of the position and aggro of every mob, particularly as a guardian who has poor aoe threat generation, you have to babysit DPS so they don't do anything stupid or die. You have to decide and mark and explain CC targets.

 

In short, there are no tanks because we have far more to do than the other two roles, and no one wants to shoulder the aggravation of it, excepting people like me who like the extra skill and attention to detail that is required.

 

This pretty much nails it.

 

You will never have enough tanks in game. Why? Most tanks are Alphas. No different than in every day real life where Alphas are not the norm. I personally love tanking and always will.

[Zooze]

I'm on the progenitor and on Rep side I have no problem finding a tank. I have two 55 tanks also. However on Imp side its a nightmare. So bad in fact that I now have 3 tanks on imp side because its almost impossible to find one to do a FP.

 

The nice thing though is I get into FP immediately and end up knowing them inside out I think some people are afraid to tank, in fact its a useful class to have in your kit bag. As you go through the game (ignoring end game stuff in this comment) you can pretty much do things like heroic 4's etc without a full group if you have a good tank, even comp healers will help you through.

[G-Seven]

The new role independent FPs had me thinking about a similar feature for other FPs. What if 1 DPS was randomly selected to "be the tank". This player would receive a very generous buff to threat generation, mitigation and HP.

 

The pseudo-tank buffs would be generous enough to allow for a comfortable margin of error in the event he/she "stands in the bad" for too long. In the event that the pseudo-tank does not know the fights (i.e., fresh 55), the pseudo-tank buffs could be passed to a more experienced DPS in this group. Personally, I don't mind tanking but I have limited play time and cannot maintain 2-3 sets of gear.

 

BW could also look at greatly improving rewards for Tanks by rewarding them with extra credits, comms, and special Tank-only mounts/achievements. In short, make it extremely rewarding to tank a FP.

[morfius]

I learned an appropriate rhyme in WoW very early on.

If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault

If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault

If the dps die, it's their own fault.

 

Just to note that WoW tanking is (or at least was, not logged there from years) different, I still remember (as part of one of the worst PuGs) having to explain one of the trash groups in HM FP to 2 jerk DPS players that was going to kill stronger target I was holding (kill priority is something they didn't get till end of FP - had to rely on marking for next large trash groups) till 2 normal mobs not covered by agro range in any way sprint to hit the healer.

It take 6 tries till they understand that their first job is to stun and burn those 2 mobs then get 2 more I am keeping, then 2 silver, then gold one.

So if some mob from wide spread group go to hit the healer - it is more DPS fault here than in WoW... if it is simple one - entirely DPS fault (non simple ones at least can be stunned/slowed/distracted till tank get them if DPS is not going just to enjoy big numbers).

Edited November 19, 2013 by morfius

[morfius]

The new role independent FPs had me thinking about a similar feature for other FPs. What if 1 DPS was randomly selected to "be the tank". This player would receive a very generous buff to threat generation, mitigation and HP.

 

The pseudo-tank buffs would be generous enough to allow for a comfortable margin of error in the event he/she "stands in the bad" for too long. In the event that the pseudo-tank does not know the fights (i.e., fresh 55), the pseudo-tank buffs could be passed to a more experienced DPS in this group. Personally, I don't mind tanking but I have limited play time and cannot maintain 2-3 sets of gear.

 

BW could also look at greatly improving rewards for Tanks by rewarding them with extra credits, comms, and special Tank-only mounts/achievements. In short, make it extremely rewarding to tank a FP.

 

For leveling and story modes it is OK, but for HM and OPs is not ... idea of group play is to learn, not to skip.

If you just skip HMs ... I simply don't want to see how you going to annoy any OP group you go in to.

[ILoveAmerica]

I think many people are overlooking the real reason why its hard to find tanks. There's nothing dev's can do to minimize this through changing mechanics. Most people are afraid to be the leader of a group in MMO's because most of the responsibility in both keeping the group alive and taking the group from point A to B falls on the tank's shoulders. If you don't believe me, roll a tank and run a group.

 

This is not an issue unique to SWTOR. Every MMO I've played has had a similar situation, and its one of the reasons I both enjoy and dislike being a tank.

[DarthTHC]

I think many people are overlooking the real reason why its hard to find tanks. There's nothing dev's can do to minimize this through changing mechanics. Most people are afraid to be the leader of a group in MMO's because most of the responsibility in both keeping the group alive and taking the group from point A to B falls on the tank's shoulders. If you don't believe me, roll a tank and run a group.

 

This is not an issue unique to SWTOR. Every MMO I've played has had a similar situation, and its one of the reasons I both enjoy and dislike being a tank.

 

Don't confuse laziness with fear.

[Rolzhard]

The biggest problem with tanks is Raids. You only need two tanks for a raid and the main tank is a bit of rock star role. There's a lot of politics and jockeying within guilds for this position. Helps tons if you are a close personal friend, spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend of the guild leader^^ It really is a politically charged position in raiding guilds. Additionally, there's a lot of performance pressure on the lead tank. etc.

 

So, you can spend a lot of time levelling a tank, gearing him, never mind the learning curve, and find yourself sitting on the sidelines. Or, being forced to focus on a dps/healing alt just so you can raid. I think a lot of players understand this intuitively so they focus on heals/dps just so they can raid. The chances of you actually tanking is a bit of a crap shoot.

 

Thankfully, I have a pretty cool guild, I joined their raid group as dps, and tanked on the side and when the lead tank left, I stepped into the gap, and I've been lead tanking for the guild for quite some time. But, really,I consider myself lucky because I've been in other guilds in other MMO's where that was distinctly not the case and the politics and jockeying around the raid tanking issue was really so unpleasant that it was better just to heal or dps.

 

One of the things I really like about SWTOR is that its so easy to alt which really helps working around this issue.

[Master-Nala]

I think many people are overlooking the real reason why its hard to find tanks. There's nothing dev's can do to minimize this through changing mechanics. Most people are afraid to be the leader of a group in MMO's because most of the responsibility in both keeping the group alive and taking the group from point A to B falls on the tank's shoulders. If you don't believe me, roll a tank and run a group.

 

This is not an issue unique to SWTOR. Every MMO I've played has had a similar situation, and its one of the reasons I both enjoy and dislike being a tank.

 

You are correct about the problem, but it can be fixed. The mechanics in boss fights are what makes tanking such a chore. Back in the days when most group content was tank and spank, MMOs had no problems getting people to play tanks. Scripted encounters have made MMOs a tiresome cheoreography contest. All in the service of making games 'hard'. But that difficulty is not evenly distributed. Leaving us with this issue.

[gorstram]

I PuG tank three flashpoints per week (for the weekly). There is no tangible reward for me to do it other than that. If BW were to add additional credit rewards, or perhaps random loot boxes for finishing a flashpoint as a tank through GF, then I would start doing them, but as it sits, there really is no reason for me to run them past my weekly quest.

[Fellfromgrace]

You are correct about the problem, but it can be fixed. The mechanics in boss fights are what makes tanking such a chore. Back in the days when most group content was tank and spank, MMOs had no problems getting people to play tanks. Scripted encounters have made MMOs a tiresome cheoreography contest. All in the service of making games 'hard'. But that difficulty is not evenly distributed. Leaving us with this issue.

 

I see your point but what else could you do to distribute the difficulty? I mean for me playing as DPS there isn't much you can do to make my job harder other then giving the mobs more hit points. In the end that doesn't really make my job harder though it just makes me have to press 1,2,3 a few more times.

 

In my opinion the only thing that can be done is being done, and that's to make people move and perform your choreography. The bad thing is that more then likely if you're going to make people move the tank will be the one to shoulder that burden as he has to position stuff correctly. Us DPS and heals we just have to make sure we're not standing in the red lol.

[morfius]

I see your point but what else could you do to distribute the difficulty? I mean for me playing as DPS there isn't much you can do to make my job harder other then giving the mobs more hit points. In the end that doesn't really make my job harder though it just makes me have to press 1,2,3 a few more times.

 

In my opinion the only thing that can be done is being done, and that's to make people move and perform your choreography. The bad thing is that more then likely if you're going to make people move the tank will be the one to shoulder that burden as he has to position stuff correctly. Us DPS and heals we just have to make sure we're not standing in the red lol.

 

It is actually doable, but will lead to less PuGing not more... just think about second and last boss in DF ... nice fail in PuG because it need much more attention from DPS players.

Put more need of following correct kill order, proper repositioning and must be interrupting and see what will happen with PuGs then