Why is being good at PvP viewed with such a negative connotation?

[VitalityPrime]

I very rarely come across this in any game.

 

In my experience...it's always been the "good PvPers" talking down on others.

 

Granted, I know that everyone is not like that...but in my experiences...I've always seen more of that.

[georgemattson]

This. I'm suffering terribly with BF4 . After playing SW for nearly two years in third person, going to first is jarring. Let alone the loss of reflex.

 

Yep. Trying to play COD Ghosts (I'm a single player guy much more than multi player), and I don't remember being this bad at FPS in the past.

[IInox]

not just pvp, skill in general carris that ideas

[ODTONE]

maybe because most of the % are very arrogant and role pugs and you tell me that in your free time with a job and family you get to grind full sets of the new gear in a week or so on all your pvp chars lol?

its not the being so amaaaazing people say that for its the amount of time spent in game and chat,

cant be too busy really...

get real

and in most countries being able to game 10 hrs a day either youre rich or not working lol

or i guess work in the gaming industry

Edited November 11, 2013 by ODTONE

[JP_Legatus]

Serious question. If you are good at PvP (Im talking top couple % here), why are you immediately labeled by spectators/opponents as a no-life, live in your parents basement kind of gamer? The stigma attached to having skill in a video game is so incredibly negative these days, its sometimes hard to actually believe it.

 

Is it because the "casual gamer" has grown so widespread in many of the popular types of gaming? And why is the "casual gamer" widely considered someone with only average playing skill?

 

Perhaps it is a reflection on society as a whole, where successful people are not only often ridiculed, but many less successful people demand their "fair share" of what those successful people have earned?

 

 

Im genuinely curious as to what you all think on this issue. In my opinion, overall play time has little to do with actual skill or performance in end-game PvP. So why does being good at pressing buttons cause many to immediately identify someone as a "no life gamer"?

 

Because people like me who play 2-3 times a week for an hour or two end up playing against guys who finished their obroan set months ago.

Basically we just need an excuse for when we get beat by better players. Grezecka doesn't beat me in duels because he's better, it's because he's a no-life grenade-spam-in-regs basement dweller tryhard

 

SHOTS FIRED

[sanchito]

I think the negativity does not come from the fact you(in a general sense, not you personally) are good in pvp, but because of how you act towards those you perceive not to be good. If you act arrogant, you get mud slinged back at you. Calling you a 'no life nerd' just happens to be the mud pile closest at hand, figuratively speaking.

 

I honestly think it's this. On both severs i play, there are a few very good people who are generally looked up too, because they are not only good, they are also helpful and polite. Then there's a lot more who are just as good, but either say nothing at all or are being rude and disrespectful, and they get called no life basement dwellers.

 

You insult someone in order to hurt him, not because you want to inform him about something he didn't know already...

[DainjaMouz]

Self-quoting from another recent thread:

Again (and I feel like a broken record on this), SWTOR players I know are consistently compliant on meeting the entry level expectations for endgame PvE content (e.g., meet the gear minimum, do your homework on the flashpoint, announce yourself as a newcomer, ask for advice). There are only two logical motivations for this behavior: (1) they respect the players with whom they're grouped, and want to contribute to the group's success; or (2) they are fearful of being soundly mocked and voted out of the group. The question no-one here has provided a satisfactory answer to is: "why shouldn't PvP players be afforded the same courtesy?" All that has been offered instead are transparently obvious attempts to marginalize PvPers as "taking the game way too seriously", or comparing us to the Marilyn Manson fanbase (odd, I know).

 

I've been wondering on this same issue recently. I think a big part of the challenge in a "mixed use" gaming environment (i.e., PvP and PvE) is that you have a significant majority of the population that thinks of PvP as an in-game "hobby". They expect PvP to be a fun outlet from the tedium of running the same dailies for the 1000th time, or hitting on a flashpoint queue that sends them to CZ-198 yet again. When they jump into a WZ expecting to hero it out, it comes as a huge shock when they find themselves instead on the respawn treadmill. In that situation, cognitive dissonance tells you that the problem isn't you, because you are awesome. Instead, the problem is external to you. Hence the ongoing complaints about premades, bolster/augmentation, class imbalance, queue matchmaking, etc. This also results in the marginalization of players who work to be successful at PvP (conveniently a minority population). Existing stereotypes (e.g., slacker gamers) only serve to reinforce their cognitive dissonance.

 

I don't know if there is any good answer. It does remind me of my favorite quote from "The Incredibles": "if everyone is special, then no-one is."

Edited November 11, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[ZooMzy]

I believe, in addition to the remarks regarding excuses for getting beat and etc, it's more of a generalization in how improvement is commonly obtained through: hard work and dedication. People usually will assume that if someone is good, they must have spent hours and hours perfecting their craft, due to the common belief that skill is usually gained from practice. Hence, the negative reaction, as people then make the connection of "lolwhyutrysohardinagame"

 

Which, if you look at the wording, explains it better. People bash someone who tries hard in a game, and returns the fire on them for not caring. It's really a selfish type of system, as no one wants to be ridiculed for not caring, especially on a video game where it's more supported in mindset. Yet the casuals can't argue, because they are in the wrong for not putting forth the effort to help the team, whether its through practice or just sheer effort (doing all they can to win).

 

Which in PvE, it's more acceptable as the competitive element is not as prevalent. However, in direct competition with others, even if there are no lasting/tangible rewards, there will always be this struggle between the "good players" (where most can only take do much before they snap on the casual/bads), and the casuals looking to just play the game and not have responsibility.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ZooMzy

[Prisoner]

Self-quoting from another recent thread:

 

 

I've been wondering on this same issue recently. I think a big part of the challenge in a "mixed use" gaming environment (i.e., PvP and PvE) is that you have a significant majority of the population that thinks of PvP as an in-game "hobby". They expect PvP to be a fun outlet from the tedium of running the same dailies for the 1000th time, or hitting on a flashpoint queue that sends them to CZ-198 yet again. When they jump into a WZ expecting to hero it out, it comes as a huge shock when they find themselves instead on the respawn treadmill. In that situation, cognitive dissonance tells you that the problem isn't you, because you are awesome. Instead, the problem is external to you. Hence the ongoing complaints about premades, bolster/augmentation, class imbalance, queue matchmaking, etc. This also results in the marginalization of players who work to be successful at PvP (conveniently a minority population). Existing stereotypes (e.g., slacker gamers) only serve to reinforce their cognitive dissonance.

 

I don't know if there is any good answer. It does remind me of my favorite quote from "The Incredibles": "if everyone is special, then no-one is."

 

Hmm. Interesting. I think you're probably right about this, athough I never thought about it much myself. It does seem to accurately describe a lot of the friction between the hardcore pvp contingent and the people who seem to just wander into a warzone get killed in three global cooldowns because they're not prepared and then QQ in the fleet chat afterward about premades/op classes/gear/etc...

Edited November 11, 2013 by Prisoner

[Seireeni]

Hmm. Interesting. I think you're probably right about this, athough I never thought about it much myself. It does seem to accurately describe a lot of the friction between the hardcore pvp contingent and the people who seem to just wander into a warzone get killed in three global cooldowns because they're not prepared and then QQ in the fleet chat afterward about premades/op classes/gear/etc...

 

It's funny how people think that there are only two types of people: the "harcore" and the ones who do nothing but fail and then whine, and nothing between them.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Seireeni

[cashogy_reborn]

Self-quoting from another recent thread:

 

 

I've been wondering on this same issue recently. I think a big part of the challenge in a "mixed use" gaming environment (i.e., PvP and PvE) is that you have a significant majority of the population that thinks of PvP as an in-game "hobby". They expect PvP to be a fun outlet from the tedium of running the same dailies for the 1000th time, or hitting on a flashpoint queue that sends them to CZ-198 yet again. When they jump into a WZ expecting to hero it out, it comes as a huge shock when they find themselves instead on the respawn treadmill. In that situation, cognitive dissonance tells you that the problem isn't you, because you are awesome. Instead, the problem is external to you. Hence the ongoing complaints about premades, bolster/augmentation, class imbalance, queue matchmaking, etc. This also results in the marginalization of players who work to be successful at PvP (conveniently a minority population). Existing stereotypes (e.g., slacker gamers) only serve to reinforce their cognitive dissonance.

 

I don't know if there is any good answer. It does remind me of my favorite quote from "The Incredibles": "if everyone is special, then no-one is."

 

Hit the nail on the head.

[Sangrar]

[DainjaMouz]

It's funny how people think that there are only two types of people: the "harcore" and the ones who do nothing but fail and then whine, and nothing between them.

A fair point. The challenge is that the "I'm interested in getting better at this, I just don't want to be a be a PvP star" crowd is smallish and/or not so vocal. My observation is that the "PvP haterz" are people who either truly think PvE is somehow superior; or, they've tried PvP and had their "awesome gamer" self-identity challenged.

Edited November 11, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[georgemattson]

A fair point. The challenge is that the "I'm interested in getting better at this, I just don't want to be a be a PvP star" crowd is smallish and/or not so vocal. My observation is that the "PvP haterz" are people who either truly think PvE is somehow superior; or, they've tried PvP and had their "awesome gamer" self-identity challenged.

 

Add me as a member of that crowd. I do want to get better at PvP and enjoy a good PvP match more than the best PvE content (raid or otherwise), but I also don't have any interest in focusing all my time and energy into becoming better as there are too many other things I also like to do. I'll get better on my own time and between now and then I'll keep re-rolling and/or grinding PvE so that I don't enter 55 PvP woefully undergeared and underskilled.

[DarthOvertone]

This. I'm suffering terribly with BF4 . After playing SW for nearly two years in third person, going to first is jarring. Let alone the loss of reflex.

 

It's the GCD in SWTOR. Just makes combat way too easy.

 

Used to take me about one match to readjust to first-person when I was mixing in BF3 with my SWTOR playtime. Now I've just been playing BF4 and the switch to third-person feels all funky. lol

 

As far as the OP's question goes...I don't think it's just a PvP issue. That type of dismissive attitude goes with pretty much any game that has any sort of progression or achievement system. Peeps are always looking to get over in whatever way they can. If you are on the bottom, what better way to rise to the top than by diminishing the accomplishments of your betters?

 

For that matter, it's not even just a game thing. That type of negativity is present in every avenue of life as well. Just think about the ugly fat chick cracking on the hawt chick because she gets all the attention. That stuff starts early and is grounded in human nature.

[Joesixxpack]

 

I watched this with the sound off, but heard "Solooo... Ho ho ho.." quite clearly.

[Wainamoinen]

Quoted again because it's true.

 

... it comes as a huge shock when they find themselves instead on the respawn treadmill. In that situation, cognitive dissonance tells you that the problem isn't you, because you are awesome. Instead, the problem is external to you. Hence the ongoing complaints about premades, bolster/augmentation, class imbalance, queue matchmaking, etc.

 

Allied to that, PvP is directly against other humans, which makes it more personal - someone beat you.

 

So the temptation is to rationalize why he beat you, a reason that lets your ego off the hook of admitting the other guy's your better (while there are issues of class balance and that a group is more efficient).

 

The grown-up and constructive reaction is to analyse how you were beaten and how you can improve. But that's harder and less immediately emotionally appealing.

 

At the same time, you make up reasons why the guy who beat you is a Bad Person, and inadequate in some other way(s) - reasons that exist in your head without any basis in evidence. So that you don't have to feel inferior.

 

The last point also relates to why gamers get a bad image in society. This is improving, but there is still a fair chunk of people who consider computer games as something incomprehensible, and what isn't understood is feared. So gamers must be despised (mildly, I haven't seen any declarations that they must be sent back home wherever that may be), because they do something you don't understand. Hence gamers are all 40-year old virgins living in their parents' basement. I may be 40, but I am married, I've a reasonably serious job and my basement is my own. I play in the front room anyway, more sociable that way.

 

I think that over time, the image will go away. Because as generations move on a greater proportion play computer games, and when everyone's a gamer then no-one despises them.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

Personally when it comes to me and PvP I tend to be a sore loser. Sometimes when it comes to doing bad in pvp because you think that you suck and everyone is better than you, it is just an overexeageration. Like all things you just need practice without being a low life gamer (you may need practice but not that much practice). Or sometimes all you need is better armor. If you can't win and think you suck in pvp arenas when the other team has 2 jedi sages/sorcerers and 2 healers and your team just has dps then that's something else that makes everyone mad.

[Ghostee]

I think its because of threads like this... you come off as someone who wants attention so much that they make a thread self proclaiming themselves as the top % who are so good and yet have to deal with the masses misunderstanding their power.

Then your typical style is to attack me.

No I don't think particularly negative of you.

[cashogy_reborn]

I think its because of threads like this... you come off as someone who wants attention so much that they make a thread self proclaiming themselves as the top % who are so good and yet have to deal with the masses misunderstanding their power.

Then your typical style is to attack me.

No I don't think particularly negative of you.

 

Quote the part where I say Im even good, let alone in the top %. I dont think you can. Seriously, how do you think I got the nickname "king of bads"?

 

Ive attacked no one. I made this thread b/c of the bevy of "youre a fat gamer nerd that lives with you mom" posts that were showing up in many other threads. Which is clearly a stereotype that was never even remotely based in reality (yes there are some people that would fit that description, but its a small minority).

 

I see you wasted no time attacking me tho.

[DainjaMouz]

I think its because of threads like this... you come off as someone who wants attention so much that they make a thread self proclaiming themselves as the top % who are so good and yet have to deal with the masses misunderstanding their power.

Then your typical style is to attack me.

No I don't think particularly negative of you.

 

Quote the part where I say Im even good, let alone in the top %. I dont think you can. Seriously, how do you think I got the nickname "king of bads"?

 

Ive attacked no one. I made this thread b/c of the bevy of "youre a fat gamer nerd that lives with you mom" posts that were showing up in many other threads. Which is clearly a stereotype that was never even remotely based in reality (yes there are some people that would fit that description, but its a small minority).

 

I see you wasted no time attacking me tho.

 

I've got to go with cash on this one. I think this has actually been a pretty balanced discussion about why players that are viewed as highly committed to improving at PvP are viewed negatively. As with cash, I have admitted multiple times in other threads that I still consider myself to be a fairly medicore Sniper, and am still working to learn the trade.

 

Not sure what caused you to fire the Slam-O-Gram 9000, but it certainly wasn't based on the contents of this thread. And, <your post> actually does a pretty fair job pointing out what dedicated PvPers are up against.

 

EDIT: In case it's unclear, it's known as "jumping to conclusions".

Edited November 12, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Sangrar]

 

watch this

[Prisoner]

It's funny how people think that there are only two types of people: the "harcore" and the ones who do nothing but fail and then whine, and nothing between them.

 

Where the hell did I say that? Don't put words into my mouth.

[Birna]

Being competitive is so frowned upon and I dont really understand it. People with competitive spirit generally apply it to everything they do. Yet its perceived by the general player-base as massive negative. Go figure.

 

Perhaps it's because the people who self-determine they are "skilled" have this tendency to wonder aloud why people not as good as them are so jealous and think so poorly of them.

[knownastherat]

On related note, only a few would ridicule Mr Bolt for being fastest human on planet despite his "overall play time" is probably quite high. There goes the thesis of " has little to do with actual skill or performance". Practice is more important than talent.

 

Notion that playing video games for substantial amount of time is not "healthy" is indeed widespread, despite controversial evidence. We know what happens after every mass shooting involving someone who ever played Pac-Man right? Nobody blames jogging and not even boxing.

 

As I mentioned before, if being good in SWTOR PvP means being one-eyed among the blind as competition here is by usual standards almost non-existent, then its hard not to see why some people could view the top 10 in the melon seed spitting competition in negative connotations especially if the top spits on everyone bellow them in the process.

Edited November 12, 2013 by knownastherat