Commando Changes Brainstorming

[kistos]

We need more survivability, just like that what you gonna do in the end is your team decision. I play Rated arenas i am always the first target enemy focus fire i die in 10-20 sec and the game this way is not fun at all. Commando special gunnery commando are good in dps but as a class they are very fragile. Enemy team will focus on them at first they are easy to die and they kick one dps out of battle without too much effort and CD. Edited November 21, 2013 by kistos

[cs_zoltan]

I played a lot of solo arena when it came out on my Arsenal Merc and I had the same experience as most of you, getting focused down first and die fast. But I don't agree that this is becuase we are squishy, rather becuase we are easy to shut down so they come after us first (or 2nd if there is a sage or scoundrel dps). Anyone but sentinels would die fast under that focus fire, which is the fault of solo queueing that allows 3 or 4 dps in a match. So unless you want op defenses like sentinels it would be better to make us harder to shut down so we aren't the first choice or even if we are we can do more than just simply die... Edited November 21, 2013 by cs_zoltan

[cashogy_reborn]

Commando is not built for Solo Queue. It is far, far better suited for Group queues where your teammates know what they are doing and will work *with* you.

[Osxoba]

Commando is not built for Solo Queue. It is far, far better suited for Group queues where your teammates know what they are doing and will work *with* you.

 

Unfortunately, balance shouldn't depend on whether or not you are with a group or solo.

[Rambeezy]

The only point of rolling a mando IS for SS, HtL, and Heavy Armor. We just need more survivability. What you're suggesting is something that, in theory, would be good, but isn't good in game. What Mandos could use is a little bit more mobility. And maybe the ability to spec it so AMP crits finish the CD on BI. And a tank is NOT stealthy, nor is flying into the air.

 

IMO the only reason to roll a mando is for the canon thingy. Other then that, I cant see any reason to choose the merc/mando ac when vanguard/ptech's are doing so well in pvp; for pve, mando/merc's are a great addition to a raid group and bodyguard/combat medic are the bees knees in 16 man.

 

You miss the point by calling a tank/flying moron not stealthy. The point of the idea is to be un attackable so that we can decide when to enter combat, thus increasing our survival time and inability of enemy teams to open on us(perhaps our greatest weakness atm). Like I said, people/enemies would be able to target us all they want while we are flying/hovering, but they wouldn't be able to attack us.

 

P.S. I know that my idea is.....out there......but that doesn't mean it wont work and not be overpowered. The more I think about it, there's actually no reason for us to sacrifice anything for this buff. It's pretty neutral IMO, especially if we don't get a combat removal like vanish.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Rambeezy

[cashogy_reborn]

Unfortunately, balance shouldn't depend on whether or not you are with a group or solo.

 

Um, actually yes balance *does* depend on whether or not you are grouped.

 

This game's PvP is balanced around group play. Almost every game built around the Trinity system is balanced around group play. There are classes that have a really hard time on their own b/c of their weaknesses, but their strengths shine when they are grouped. Commando is one of those classes.

[Rambeezy]

Um, actually yes balance *does* depend on whether or not you are grouped.

 

This game's PvP is balanced around group play. Almost every game built around the Trinity system is balanced around group play. There are classes that have a really hard time on their own b/c of their weaknesses, but their strengths shine when they are grouped. Commando is one of those classes.

 

The difference between solo and grouped is that we don't get to dictate what group comp we will have in solo. A merc/mando must select a particular group comp with players that know to support the merc/mando in order to win, something that is rarely seen in solo queues. An op healer can carry most comps and a few bad players until the acid comes out. That's why it's safe to say balancing for group play or rather making one class able to play with any group and the other require certain groups is unwise.

 

Ops can heal on the move (quite effectively too) and choose when to enter combat by starting each match in stealth. They can even vanish to leave combat. Those 2 strengths, when combined, will make any healing class, in any mmo, overpowered. Ops never needed stealth, IMO, the designer of the class knew what he was doing and intended for the class to be overpowered from the get go. However, this is not an Op flame thread, it's a merc brainstorming thread. Something I actually asked bioware to make for us.

 

There's a few ways to counter our weaknesses, as many people have pointed out; increase our output so that whatever we get off makes a lasting difference through shutdowns, make us a cast on the move class, make us immune to interrupts more often, or let us dictate when we enter combat. Any of these ideas can work. Yeah we may end up being overpowered. But we aren't gonna be overpowered when compared to ops.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Rambeezy

[Quazi-moto]

Don't forget the bonus healing ticks. I like getting a 10-18k heal bomb every 5s + 1k-2k bonus tick puddle per player that is a bit larger than the bomb itself 8m I think (16m end to end).

 

BTW thanks for the guide. It has made my healing capacity jump immensely, I used to have power outage issues, because I would spam the long cast heal and just drain my power.

 

Now if we could only change the love beam to match the crystal color, I would be in happy land.

 

If I had any ideas for improvement, I would like some ability to heal on the run, maybe while activating hold the line or your shield. I would prefer that to the single use no energy skill.

 

or

 

Have a resource generating cloud. Have the kolto bomb change based on the cell used.

CS: no change

Armor Piercing Cell: yellow energy pool gain for 10%

Plasma Cell: boosts the damage of dots by 10%

Would make mando a very important class to have around your slingers, balance consulars, and watchman sents. It would be easy to fill in the rotation to throw down a bomb every cd without affecting dps. It would then be a choice between heals, energy generation, or dot boost.

 

Posted in heal thread

My points:

1. Make the Love Beam match crystal colors

2. Change Kolto cloud based on the Cell used

3. New skill called Run and Gun: 15s duration 1.5m cd. Once activated, commando is immune to interrupts, and is able to cast while moving. Alternatively, change Hold the Line

4. As others have mentioned, procs take too long to "wake up", I also approve of making full auto give proc chance on each hit.

5. Is assault a dot spec or a burst spec, seems to be trying to do both.

[cashogy_reborn]

The difference between solo and grouped is that we don't get to dictate what group comp we will have in solo. A merc/mando must select a particular group comp with players that know to support the merc/mando in order to win, something that is rarely seen in solo queues. An op healer can carry most comps and a few bad players until the acid comes out. That's why it's safe to say balancing for group play or rather making one class able to play with any group and the other require certain groups is unwise.

 

Ops can heal on the move (quite effectively too) and choose when to enter combat by starting each match in stealth. They can even vanish to leave combat. Those 2 strengths, when combined, will make any healing class, in any mmo, overpowered. Ops never needed stealth, IMO, the designer of the class knew what he was doing and intended for the class to be overpowered from the get go. However, this is not an Op flame thread, it's a merc brainstorming thread. Something I actually asked bioware to make for us.

 

There's a few ways to counter our weaknesses, as many people have pointed out; increase our output so that whatever we get off makes a lasting difference through shutdowns, make us a cast on the move class, make us immune to interrupts more often, or let us dictate when we enter combat. Any of these ideas can work. Yeah we may end up being overpowered. But we aren't gonna be overpowered when compared to ops.

 

Solo Arenas are a complete joke. MMO PvP is almost always balanced around group play. That is the case in this game. I would much rather have changes made to my class based on how they perform in a true competitive environment, rather than based on what goes in in the lolSolo queue which is so heavily RNG driven.

 

As far as comparing Operatives and Mercs healing abilities, obviously Merc is at a disadvantage. It has a lot more to do with what the Merc cant do that what the Operative can do, however. Being able to cast while moving would be a huge improvement for Merc healing. The skill tree also needs a good look over, as there are a lot of useless talents that we are forced to take.

 

 

A huge problem I am seeing with a lot of these "suggestions" is that they are simply whines about what other classes have. Yeah, Operative healing is the best in PvP right now. Instead of continuing to point that out and whine about it, offer some useful suggestions that might improve Merc healing to be competitive with Op healing.

[klham]

What I don't understand is why we're being asked for improvement suggestions when this has already been rigorously debated ad nauseam by the commando/merc player pool in several lengthy and high-quality threads.

 

It's great that we got a few quality of life improvements (a little bit more mobility, a little bit more utility, a couple instant casts on long cd, a slight abbreviation of our looooong dps rotation) but some elementary core problems remain.

 

Green-beam-'o-Death. Total shutdown by smashers. Chronic vulnerability to cc. Resource management problems when you get hung up trying to proc the rest of your dps rotation. A rotation that can't be reset on the move. Chronic vulerability to cc and a resolve bar than never fills in time to actually save your life when 1v1 against cc-dependent mdps (assassins). The lack of a low-cost below-30% finisher. And did I mention chronic vulnerability to cc? The list goes on.

 

Some great ideas have been discussed and analyzed on these threads. I think a lot of the solutions have already been provided in one form or another.

Edited November 23, 2013 by klham

[Falver]

Had a crazy idea to make Bacta Infusion better:

Remove its cooldown and instead make it consume 6 charge or something. It'll add a new aspect of emergency healing but at the same time require more micromanagement from the player, balancing SCC and BI.

 

Perhaps not a 0 cooldown, but something along those lines to make the pinnacle skill good in comparison to salvation and kolto cloud.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Falver

[Rambeezy]

Solo Arenas are a complete joke. MMO PvP is almost always balanced around group play. That is the case in this game. I would much rather have changes made to my class based on how they perform in a true competitive environment, rather than based on what goes in in the lolSolo queue which is so heavily RNG driven.

 

As far as comparing Operatives and Mercs healing abilities, obviously Merc is at a disadvantage. It has a lot more to do with what the Merc cant do that what the Operative can do, however. Being able to cast while moving would be a huge improvement for Merc healing. The skill tree also needs a good look over, as there are a lot of useless talents that we are forced to take.

 

 

A huge problem I am seeing with a lot of these "suggestions" is that they are simply whines about what other classes have. Yeah, Operative healing is the best in PvP right now. Instead of continuing to point that out and whine about it, offer some useful suggestions that might improve Merc healing to be competitive with Op healing.

 

It is quite amazing how ever since I heard the cast on the move suggestion, I've found myself in many situations where I'm peeling to mitigate damage and just imagine how ****** it would be to not have to stop to heal when I peel. So cast on the move definitely has my approval. It's probably one of the best suggestions I've read. Good job to whomever came up with the idea.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Mando off healing is probably the best, as we can afford to heal with kolto bomb and advanced med probe without loss of too much DPS.

 

i agree. AP with a shield generator, if done right, can guard a healer in the heat of battle.

[klham]

Mobile casting & channeling has already been raised innumerable times. They'll never do it. Conversely, we've also discussed buffs and utilities that proc after remaining stationary (so that there's at least some upside to all the self-rooting the class has to do). I'd be happy with just some proc'd immunities and a few more defensive cool downs. For starters, how about commandos can't be immediately leapt onto again by a flying smash monkey who they've just knocked back. It's not funny how often the kb just sets up a fresh leap.

[cashogy_reborn]

It is quite amazing how ever since I heard the cast on the move suggestion, I've found myself in many situations where I'm peeling to mitigate damage and just imagine how ****** it would be to not have to stop to heal when I peel. So cast on the move definitely has my approval. It's probably one of the best suggestions I've read. Good job to whomever came up with the idea.

 

Thanks, I suggested it back on like page 2

[BobaFaceroll]

Constructive Combat Medic changes. May or may not be reposts (first is something I've posted before).

 

1) Change Frontline Medic as follows

2 point skill

Allows you to deploy 1/2 additional Trauma Probes

Whenever someone is healed by your Trauma Probe you recover 1/2 ammo

 

Allows more proactive healing, can be cast on the move, helps with ammo when multiple people are under pressure. Should help Commandos stay in the fight longer (not go ammo dry so fast) without disturbing balance in fights where 3 people aren't taking constant damage (most PvE content)

 

2) Addition to Potent Mecidine trait

'In addition, being attacked reduces the cool down of Bacta Infusion by 0.5/1.0 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2/1 seconds.'

 

Reduce the cool down on our ammo free, instant heal when under direct pressure. This will help Commando healers stay alive when focused in PvP, but won't drastically change the availability of Bacta Infusion in PvE play.

 

3) Increase the heal over time applied by Preventative Medicine by 100%

 

More oomph from traited AMP. Brings total healing from upfront heal and HOT to around the same level as Kolto Infusion from an Op. Still less total healing output...but a noticable improvement in healing output that does not need to be hard cast.

[cs_zoltan]

1) Change Frontline Medic as follows

2 point skill

Allows you to deploy 1/2 additional Trauma Probes

Whenever someone is healed by your Trauma Probe you recover 1/2 ammo

 

Allows more proactive healing, can be cast on the move, helps with ammo when multiple people are under pressure. Should help Commandos stay in the fight longer (not go ammo dry so fast) without disturbing balance in fights where 3 people aren't taking constant damage (most PvE content)

This is as OP as it gets

[BobaFaceroll]

This is as OP as it gets

 

I'd be curious to hear why you think that. Are people regularly complaining that they can't burn through the healing generated solely by Trauma Probe? Do you think that the ammo regen is too much?

[cs_zoltan]

I'd be curious to hear why you think that. Are people regularly complaining that they can't burn through the healing generated solely by Trauma Probe? Do you think that the ammo regen is too much?

 

I already made several posts about trauma probe and how good it is in PVE, making it castable on more than 1 target would be either op or result in a nerf which would ruin it's strong single target heal status. But the real opness in your suggestion is the ammo regen. It would almost double our ammo regen rate. With consant damage on all 3 targets it would regen 78 ammo in 26 seconds.

[cashogy_reborn]

Id like to see Hammer Shot heal crits return 2 ammo. Im not sure what should be done with Trauma Probe, tho I would like it to be at least like the Frontline Medic talent to be redesigned somehow. Its almost completely useless in both PvP and PvE.

[Bleeters]

On a minor note, having the damage absorption buff granted by Reflexive Shield either also absorb damage from the hit that procs it as opposed to damage sustained afterwards or upping the duration a little wouldn't hurt from a PvE perspective. I'm aware that shield is largely insignificant anyway, but far more often than not I've seen it proc from boss AoE then fall off long before I'm taking any more damage.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

I have some ideas to improve Commandos(Field Medic in particular):

 

Trooper(BH equivalent in Parenthesis):

QoL:

-Ammo now has percentage when "Show Information Text" is enabled.(No change for BH, heat already has %)

-Republic Special Forces have now started a training course for all Troopers that allow them to wield Blaster Pistols along with their standard-issue rifles.(The BBA has trained Hunters to wield Blaster Rifles to allow more consistent contract fulfillment along with their blaster pistols..)

-NEW ABILITY: No Surrender!(Battle Rush)

-Fires your blaster in the air, increasing damage done by 25% and decreasing damage taken by 15%. Lasts 15 seconds. (cooldown: 1 minute 30 seconds)

 

Commando(Mercenary):

General:

-Commandos have received updated training, allowing them to dual-wield their Blaster Pistols.(Mercenaries have received improved training from the BBA, allowing them to wield Sniper Rifles and Power Generators.)

-Hold the line now gives a 60% speed boost[up from 30%].(Hydraulic Overrides now gives a 60% speed boost[up from 30%].)

-Commandos can now cast while on the move with a penalty of a 50% speed decrease. (Mercenaries can now cast while on the move with a penalty of a 50% speed decrease.)

 

Combat Medic:

-Supercharged Cells now gives 5% alacrity while active.(Supercharged Gas now gives 5% alacrity while active)

-NEW TALENT!: Hammer Shot and Medical Probe criticals now give a stack of Field Medicine, which increases the healing done by your next Bacta Infusion by 10% and decreases the deployment time of Advanced Medical Probe by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. (Rapid Shots and Rapid Scan Criticals now give a stack of Improved Scanners, which increases the healing done by your next Emergency Scan by 10% and decreases the scan time of Healing Scan by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times.)

-NEW TALENT!: Bacta Infusion has a 50%/100% chance to activate a Rapid Kolto Infusion, which heals for 20% of Bacta Infusion's healing done initially and for X amount over 8 seconds. (Emergency Scan has a 50/100% chance to activate a Mending Scan, which heals for 20% of Emergency Scan's healing done initially and for X amount over 8 seconds.)

Edited November 27, 2013 by TheSupaCoopa

[TylerAcalan]

Keeping in mind the original 2.5 and 2.6 changes are being made specifically to balance PvP I am suspecting that's the goal of this topic. So I'll try to stick that.

 

As a Gunnery Commando I simply feel as if we are too immobile, too reliant on casting and channeling, and lack the survivabilty other Heavy Armor users have.

 

If the design of Gunnery was supposed to be this overall turret design, we should have some of the same defenses that Gunslingers have. They make the best immobile turrets and have more survivablty while "locked down" so to speak. 20% ranged defense or complete ranged immunity depending on their cover. Plus they have immunity to interrupts and pushback.

 

If the point was to make them a bit more mobile then that, they still need to do away with the casting and channeling on half the abilities and make them instacast. Don't worry about ammo cost, just remove the cast/channel from some of them.

 

Some of the problems I've run into in PvP is that yes. I get shut down quickly due to having ridiculously long casting times as well as channel pushback cancelling. Taking away Grav-Round's stack may have required less focus on that but it did NOT remove the stacking for Charged Screen or Charged Barrel (Which means only one Grav-round gives 2 Charged Barrel meaning I still need to get 3x Grav-Rounds off to benefit from increased defense or improve the damage on HiB or reduced time on Advance Probe's activation).

 

Hammershot is our only free attack. Every other single ability requires the Commando to ether channel, cast, or move into a range that puts them at more risk then they should be at. Explosive Rounds eat a ridiculous amount of cells per cast with you perhaps only able to get 5 or so off before you're spent. Sticky grenade doesn't do much damage to begin with for Gunnery. The fact that Hammershot is our only ability we can freely cast that doesn't chew through our ammo should clearly spell out the overall terrible design on having a class that reliant on Channels and casts.

 

Pushback is also a terrible thing for Commandos. I've had my Full Auto's reduced to Hammershot effectiveness because each attack takes a third to nearly half of the channel away from me mean I do less damage because of less ticks. I've even had Plasma Grenades forcibly canceled. They focused on me long enough that sometimes they'd push my channel back to the start and I'd get a "Failed" message and the grenade went on cooldown.

 

I've played all the other classes and Commandos just don't cut it. All the other classes have at least half their abilities as instacasts or in the case of Gunslinger/Sniper, protection from interrupts and pushback to keep them in the fight. Commandos have nothing. Their abilities ether require being able to freecast and set up situations that allow them to fire off free of cast abilities such as HiB.

 

Yes, a Commando left alone is a force of nature but this is PvP after all. If players are smart (and I'd believe they are given how much focus I get) they won't let a Commando run rampant. They'll shut them down fast or at least tie them up. We're not a duelist class. We're supposed to be mobile artillery. We can't be that if we're getting tied up unable to attack or set up for free of charge attacks.

 

I would ask you Eric to at least consider removing the cast/channel time on some of the abilities or give us a passive ability that reduces pushback for the entire AC and not just a single skill that only applies to healers.

 

If we can't get off any attacks because we're moving or being attacked, we're dead weight. It would also help the PvE game if we had more free attacks we can do while on the move.

 

Alternatively yes. I have problems with survivablity. I've noticed it. My guildmates have noticed it. I'm one of three Classes that can wear heavy armor but it feels like I'm more wearing light armor. Even DPS Vanguards and Guardians both look and feel like they can take more punishment then a Commando despite all three wearing heavy armor. Clearly there is a passive at work here that allows Vanguards and Guardians to survive better then Commandos rather then the armor which doesn't seem to matter one way or another here.

 

So just some things to consider for the team when they look at Commandos.

 

Remove/reduce dependency on channel/casting.

 

-OR-

 

Passive reduction on pushback and/or interrupts.

 

Increase survivabitly through armor rather then utility. I'm heaving heavy armor. I shouldn't have to rely on trickery or Force Magic like the other classes. I want to feel like I should be able to eat some damage to the face, heal up, and THEN march on.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Increase survivabitly through armor rather then utility. I'm heaving heavy armor. I shouldn't have to rely on trickery or Force Magic like the other classes. I want to feel like I should be able to eat some damage to the face, heal up, and THEN march on.

 

This is what BW wanted to make the Trooper Class feel like, but they epically failed on it.

[straseed]

My suggestion:

While Supercharged Cell is active, the heal over time effect from Preventative Medicine (the proc from AMP) is accelerated, ticking rapidly over 4 seconds. This effect benefits from alacrity.