The Actual Reason PVP is failing.

[AshlaBoga]

RE: Original Post

 

1) X-Server

2) Balance

 

1. I doubt BW's current team is skilled and large enough to navigate the labrythian coding that has been thrown together and create X-Server (at least in 2013/2014).

 

2. Yes, no balance changes for months is ONLY fine if all classes are RELATIVELY balanced - I define "relatively" as within 10% dps/heals/tanking of each other. Obviously, many many months have gone by where dps are within around 20% of each other:(

[CrazyOldMystic]

Commando and Sorc DPS are my main toons and I like where they're at balance wise. If you're having issues casting with them you're playing the character wrong.

 

Sorc has good defenses and great mobility in a pinch, it can be stopped by roots and stuns but so can everyone. Plus force sprint has a short cooldown, except for the agent/Smuggler roll they can scoot around a warzone better than most.

 

I hate when people say "X character sucks" only because they never bothered to learn it's complexities or are expecting them to be a class they can face-roll and get performance out of.

 

Once you learn the depth of a "bad class" like the sorc you can throw bubbles on your entire team (DPS deflected counts as healing), yank a friendly ball carrier to a safe catwalk, sprint ahead of him through the fire trap, barrier up to weather any attacks, receive the passed Huttball, and sprint to the end zone. All in one class that can also be a DPS hero.

 

I really wish bads wouldn't complain about classes they don't know how to play.

 

You are talking about sorcs not commando. First we have one get out of jail free card, and one partial. The partial only works with some snares/roots, and only increases the speed slightly. In a wz 55 bracket as a commando I spend most of time on the move. Now you think this is not a bad thing. Just one problem the class is designed as stand still and shoot class. Everything is a charge up, but the only way you survive and get some kills is by being on the move allot. We dont get bubbles, we dont get to pull someone somewhere, and we sure the heck dont have the damage resistance to stand up to any class. People talk about bads, I say its the devs fault, not the players. The commando is designed as a stand and shoot class. The only players that will be able to be good enough to move around allot and shoot are those that defy how the class is built. Only those players that have a spent a great deal of time in pvp will know this. If the devs wanted us to be on the move class, with very little damage resistance, then they should not have made all our primary dps a stand and shoot mechanic. Dont pull the electro net yes it would help a great deal if it was not on a long cool down, which it is.

 

As for sorcs and sages the only time those classes needed a nerf in my book was when they could heal off each other at launch till the end of time. I am hesitant to say where those classes are at.

[Uber_the_Goober]

PvP is fine. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

PvP is the only reason I play this game. It needs improved, and it is being improved, and it's also just fine at the moment. If it were failing (my chicken little friend), then I, and many others, wouldn't be here.

 

Now go back to bed, it's past your night-night time.

[AdmiralParmesan]

PvP is fine. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

PvP is the only reason I play this game. It needs improved, and it is being improved, and it's also just fine at the moment. If it were failing (my chicken little friend), then I, and many others, wouldn't be here.

 

Now go back to bed, it's past your night-night time.

 

Yes because large amounts of players haven't quit this game due to the quality of pvp. I'm honestly not really sure if you are a troll or just blatantly unaware of the game's current state.

 

Either way move along please

[AdmiralParmesan]

Commando and Sorc DPS are my main toons and I like where they're at balance wise. If you're having issues casting with them you're playing the character wrong.

 

Sorc has good defenses and great mobility in a pinch, it can be stopped by roots and stuns but so can everyone. Plus force sprint has a short cooldown, except for the agent/Smuggler roll they can scoot around a warzone better than most.

 

I hate when people say "X character sucks" only because they never bothered to learn it's complexities or are expecting them to be a class they can face-roll and get performance out of.

 

Once you learn the depth of a "bad class" like the sorc you can throw bubbles on your entire team (DPS deflected counts as healing), yank a friendly ball carrier to a safe catwalk, sprint ahead of him through the fire trap, barrier up to weather any attacks, receive the passed Huttball, and sprint to the end zone. All in one class that can also be a DPS hero.

 

I really wish bads wouldn't complain about classes they don't know how to play.

 

While you are entitled to your opinion I wouldn't say it is entirely justified. Personally I don't like to talk about my own skill as I find it typically biased when someone reviews their own capability. However I would be lying if I didn't say that I am one of the better sorcerer players on my sever; I have played the class since launch and even have a geared sage as well. While I have enjoyed it (due the amount of attention required to play it) it simply has it's limitations.

 

To be fair the class isn't that bad, but a few quality of life changes could really increase the enjoy-ability and viability of the class. Other classes do have to deal with roots, but the other two ranged dps classes don't have to worry about Roots countering their main mobility option. In case you haven't noticed roots are very common and they ruin your mobility. Since the sorcerer class's survivability is based on kiting and not defense mitigation cooldowns it is fair to say that their mobility should not be easily countered. Hold the Line doesn't have to worry about roots stopping functionality, and covered escape can't be used while rooted but also makes you immune to everything during the duration. It has been a common suggestion that sorcerer/sage force speed make you immune to roots for the duration, is that really such a hard concept to understand?

 

Interrupts are a problem for merc/sorc as well. Yes with good teammates in arenas this can be worked around to a certain extent, but it is still a problem. This is not to say ranged should be immune to interrupts as this would make them highly over powered but simple solutions could help alleviate this. Eliminating in game "spell pushback" from damage would help a lot, or make certain specs gain procs for interrupt immunity on key casts.

 

If ranged can't maintain mobility or get casts off during pressure it not only leads to a poor player experience but reinforces people tunneling said classes. Which is what you should probably see every game assuming you play the classes you claim and aren't on a pve server.

[Technohic]

The real problem with PvP is it is stagnant and stale. It's just not as fun the more you do it. Thats why you have people so concerned with rank seasons as that seems to be the only thing to PvP for, for some people. Gear is part of it here and there, but at the same time, we are left to wonder how worth while it is with bolster and again; only worth it to the serious ranked PvPer.

 

If they made it fun and exciting, people would do it for just plain out fun more often. Fun leads to higher populations in the Qs, and more people in the Qs waters down the odds of facing a premade. Open world and large scale battes reduce the effectivness of a premade as a larger group, To top it off, larger populations make ranking more meaningful for those who are into that, and also provides for better matchmaking chances.

[Sir-Coffee]

From reading this, most people understand all the problems.

 

The biggest by far is no cross server. Queue times are way too long once you're high rated, as someone mentioned in another thread. 4v4 is dead around certain times. Every night on pot5 you have to beg people to throw together a team. They can easily make cross server happen, they just have to be willing to spend the money, and with all the money they make from milking cartel nerds, I have no clue why it hasn't happened yet or isn't in the works. Oh wait, they always shaft pvp.

 

The second issue regarding balance...I'm in the minority where I think overall every class is balanced, you just need the right player in the right comp. Yes I think hybrid AP tank and smash are retard specs, but there is a huge difference between the average s keying variety and the people who REALLY know how to play those specs.

I don't know if you're referring to classes/specs but if it's specs, then there are plenty of worthless specs in this game and I'll just name scrapper to start(Completely gimped spec for Arena).

 

As someone else mentioned, Bioware's problem with balance is that they are all horrible at their own game. They have no clue what the real issues are. They should be asking for the advice from the top 1% on each server because true balance can only be achieved by the people who can maximize classes and specs. They also take way too long to fix things that obviously inflate certain specs, i.e. double stacking SA.

 

On an average late night on pot5, my ranged comp, whether it's merc/sorc or triple madness, BREAKS 4v4 ranked queue. People lose a couple times and they stop queuing altogether (watch twitch and see how much time we spend standing around in between queue pops). Last night we threw together sin hybrid tank, vengeance jugg, madness sorc, merc healer...just to coax people into playing and having a chance. This should be more than enough of a reason to put every server into some kind of mega cross server. People need to feel like they have a chance against people of similar skill level.

 

Everything else is true.

Edited October 27, 2013 by SithEBM

[CrazyOldMystic]

Interesting as far as hold the line goes, it really does not help us too much, I would be lying if I said it did not help at all. This being said they see a commando they put them on ICE or stun lock. What you talked about at the bottom of your post is exactly the issue commandos have with operatives. This is also why I do not want to see their damage buffed up. Take example today warzone. Going one to one with a cocky sob operative, thinking he could waltz through our lines, while me and my team mates showed him the error of his ways. Shortly their after he was up to his old tricks so I chose to take him on. Lost the fight not because of lack of skill. First like I already pointed out electro net has a long cool down. So I had no electro net. Secondly he continually reset my abilities. They do not get a simple reset to the normal cool down. Instead the reset causes longer then normal cool down. By the time he was done resetting my abilities I pretty much had nothing left. If that was not bad enough he was ccing me so much I could hardly do anything. With lack of damage resist and my instant free two heals on cool down. I had nothing left.

 

To me like I pointed out above its almost like the devs arnt sure what they want to do with pure range classes with cast timers. The mechanic says stay still and shoot or in your case use the force. We both know in a wz you have to keep moving allot with the way commando is set up. Never played a sorc so on that point I am assuming. The only one they seem to be sure about is the sniper, no surprise their its pretty oped. I played one, and I could not believe how much damage, and advantage they had over my two 55 troopers just by pure abilities. Some days it is like find a hole and hide in it. By that I mean I am using LOS so much I barely get to shoot.

 

Not sure what Mr. chicken little is talking about up there, my guess a pver worried that pve is not going to get the development spotlight or something.

[CrazyOldMystic]

The real problem with PvP is it is stagnant and stale. It's just not as fun the more you do it. Thats why you have people so concerned with rank seasons as that seems to be the only thing to PvP for, for some people. Gear is part of it here and there, but at the same time, we are left to wonder how worth while it is with bolster and again; only worth it to the serious ranked PvPer.

 

If they made it fun and exciting, people would do it for just plain out fun more often. Fun leads to higher populations in the Qs, and more people in the Qs waters down the odds of facing a premade. Open world and large scale battes reduce the effectivness of a premade as a larger group, To top it off, larger populations make ranking more meaningful for those who are into that, and also provides for better matchmaking chances.

 

Well that is the point is it now? How can you have fun being stun locked in place? How can you have fun having your abilities reset on you? How can you have fun just getting pulverized? This brings about balance discussions. Right now in my head I know a few things that would make pvp fun, but I do not think we will ever see it.

[Vaerah]

These are my last days before sub expires.

 

PVP in SWTOR has some game breaking flaws, I wish I could return playing Warhammer Online (EA are closing it down in December :mad::mad::mad::mad:).

 

That game was a wreck but was so much more fun and immersive.

 

Factions were real factions and for a while they let guilds own keeps and put their tabard.

Lore was massively good, visuals were awesome, gear looked MAGNIFICENT.

 

It supported "WZs" (called scenarios) but also one of the best outdoor PVP systems. Actually the vast majority of game play was PvP and it was group outworld PVP.

In SWTOR the very mention of outdoor PVP seems a blasphemy. "They will exploit it blah blah", like other MMOs are not doing outworld PvP since a decade with no problem!

 

Game fluidity in Warhammer was OK, not the best responsive but well playable.

In SWTOR about 70% of the time I am playing absurdly fast and the character just keeps getting stuck, lagging, completing animations instead of DOING what I want.

 

This alone makes me want to quit, I can't accept that a twitch based class (sin / shadow) can't be played half as fast as I can play it. *I* should be the limit, not a computer imposing me its slow responsiveness.

 

Another thing I hate about SWTOR: too small groups so min maxing and classes FOTM will always affect the gameplay.

 

"Game engine cannot blah blah".

Bollocks, fire the idiot who chose a 1995 engine and use something able to manage a self marketed triple A title.

 

"Cannot do cross server queues".

Same as above. Cross server is at least a 7 years old technology, don't pretend a giant like EA can't pay for cross server to be implemented.

 

The reality is this: whereas normal MMO companies strive to make their MMO succesful even for prestige reasons, EA is exclusively after dividends. If they see that selling pointless visual trinkets outdoes PvPers income then they put 30 men at developing visual garbage and 1 at PvP. They sell a product, a fire and forget thing, like SWTOR is just your next FIFA or AC 4 box: sell it and forget it.

 

Finally, PvP in SWTOR has no drive. Why should a player PvP? A month / 2 and he's got full gear. And gear is hardly a motivator to play. Maybe it's OK for botters and PvE farmers who love to get gear to become better at farming the next tier of gear.

But in the PvPers eyes that's dumb. PVPers want ladders, want ELO or similar, want tournaments and competitions NOT some colored pixels saying "tier = tier + 1".

 

SWTOR got none of that.

 

Surprised I'd love to play Warhammer (with all its flaws, bugs and past huge imbalances) more than SWTOR?

I am not, I am a PvPer and love team play, SWTOR provides little of both (on paper it provides for team play... too bad ranked failed and ranked arena will also fail).

Not surprised serious and competitive PvPers have bailed out and still are doing it. SWTOR is a rookie attempt at a MMO. If it was not for the Star Wars IP it could easily be made by some anonymous indie company.

[Arunas]

PvP in swtor is now only for derping with friends until next MMO comes out. Expecting anything more will only lead to disappointment.

[DarthMaulUK]

PvP in swtor is now only for derping with friends until next MMO comes out. Expecting anything more will only lead to disappointment.

 

This.

 

Recently, I don't know what the PvP design team have been smoking but these past few months have seen bad design decision after another.

 

But in truth, it was flawed from day 1. Instead of breaking the normal WoW clone format, they decided to follow it and give us shame holes to pvp in, or warzones as they are called. I don't think Biofail want pvp in their game as it's clear they are just pushing out the few left who still take part in a chase to get their gear up to scratch.

 

There was a time when PvP didn't require a shame hole to take part in, but just an open space or an enemy bunker where HUNDREDS would do battle. They should just rename the game to Star Wars: An Instanced Republic because thats what it is, thanks to an outdated game engine that lags when 16 people try to engage in 'combat'

[Arlanon]

Surprised I'd love to play Warhammer (with all its flaws, bugs and past huge imbalances) more than SWTOR?

I am not, I am a PvPer and love team play, SWTOR provides little of both (on paper it provides for team play... too bad ranked failed and ranked arena will also fail).

 

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/4065156/pics/original/2216431.jpg

 

A Knight, a Wizard, and a Witch Hunter were attacking mah Keepz! I ran inside and dumped a vat of boiling oil on their heads! The Wizard and the Witch Hunter died outright! The Knight started backpedalling and I leaped off the ramparts to finish him off!

 

They came back with Siege Cannons! I set up a turret and started firing back! Then I made a run across the battlefield and started beating on one of the cannons with my swords! Just for lolz! I broke it! The knight popped out! I killed him 1v1! By the time the other two figured out what was happening, it was already happening to them too!

 

Then they came back for a good old fashioned 3v1 brawl! They failed! And the story lives on forever in myth, legend, and enjin.com!

 

What fun times!

Edited October 28, 2013 by Arlanon

[AdmiralParmesan]

This.

 

Recently, I don't know what the PvP design team have been smoking but these past few months have seen bad design decision after another.

 

To suggest that what they've been "smoking" is the cause of why this game is so bad is giving the bioware employees too much credit.

[Vaerah]

[

A Knight, a Wizard, and a Witch Hunter were attacking mah Keepz! I ran inside and dumped a vat of boiling oil on their heads! The Wizard and the Witch Hunter died outright! The Knight started backpedalling and I leaped off the ramparts to finish him off!

 

My Sorceress 5 years ago, at the dawn of the game.

 

My Sorceress is now RR 100:

 

The day I got to the maximum level.

 

Visiting a nice T3 elven zone.

 

Visiting a secluded palace that very few even know where it is.

[CrazyOldMystic]

The gear complaint is a load of bull in my opinion. Think in the long term for one second. You have a terriable balance in pvp, and your what going to say to players they have to pvp a whole lot more for gear? I can tell you right now that will just burn out the pvp population. Until the devs stop treating snipers, operatives, gunslingers, scoundrels, shadows, and assasins as if they are the gods that should remain op. The pvp is wzs and arenas will never be balanced. People talk like the Jedi Knights/warriors are the big bads. Ah they cant stealth out of combat for extreme long periods of times then come back cc you, kill you, and put your abilities on a abnormally long cool down.

 

Your thinking this guy is just wrong right? Well let me ask you this what do you think the out cry would be if they gave all troopers/bhs the ability to fire a round with a short cool down that consistently not only interrupted the other players abilities but put them on a abnormally long cool down? I think we all know the answer the player base would never stand for it.

 

In my point of view making the pvp gear harder to get or increasing its tiers, with the sad state of balance, and pvp all together would just do more harm then good. They have allot of work to do before they can even consider demanding that of people in swtor. Oh and one more note I love how people think sticky grenade interrupts stealth 100 percent of the time. I wish lol.

[NathanielStarr]

One thing is certain - this game needs less CC - AoE CC, in particular. Can't take 2 steps in the melee zone without getting punted, feared, blinded, stunned, slowed, rooted. Definitely fun having a full resolve bar if you're a Smash Marauder who is getting healed... in most other cases, not so much.

 

Well lets be fair the smashers aren't the only ones able to live through the CC Operatives do also. Almost everyone else never gets to see resolve work for them.

[TheCourier-]

Well lets be fair the smashers aren't the only ones able to live through the CC Operatives do also. Almost everyone else never gets to see resolve work for them.

 

Stuns give AP PTs 30% damage taken reduction for the duration of the stun.