Tachenko_Yuri Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I mean, you wake up, hit your work desk on a monday morning, which hits like a truck for everyone, and first thing you got to do is go through the piles of whining, entitlment, swearing, and all sorts of messages, polite or not, which all bring down to the same message " your game sucks , blah blah blah " Give'em a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweKaiser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Agreed. Give them a break, they are doing a fantastic job imo with this game. It only gets better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suntaru Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I agree also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I concur. But legitimate, organized, and fair feedback for the improvement of the game should still stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmjarec Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Why dont you just post in the other bioware is awesome thread so you people can more easily identify and stroke together while singing bioware praises. This is the real world and the real world has problems. Sit there patting yourself on the back long enough and you will be dethroned from the meteocrity slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is the real world and the real world has problems. Yes, it has. patting on the back won't help much. going waaaa waa over everything single thing, though, it will help a lot not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I have a feeling this thread is not going to accomplish the goal or goals that were likely intended. Insulting those you wish to persuade is not usually the right method to change behavior....especially not on a game forum. It usually has the opposite effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmjarec Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Indeed. If they want a break be a banker. This is the wrong profession if you cant deal with constant criticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous." "They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius. Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic." "Everyone who dislikes your work is right." "This is the hardest pill to swallow. I’ve never gotten a piece of feedback that was wrong. You see, you can’t deny a player their unique experience. Whatever they felt, was true. For them. And something in your work triggered it. It is useless, and worse, actually self-defeating, to attempt to deny the critique. Sure, there are sometimes reviews that seem spiteful, unfair, and the rest. But the vast majority of the time, people are giving their honest reaction. And the bottom line is, you put the game out there in order to get reactions. If it were not for reactions, you could have just kept the game in your drawer and gotten everything you needed out of it." - Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/#more-13450 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uludelu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) The thing is that when you pay for a product you wants it to be without problems ! Lately this game have many problems ! Last time we had to wait 4 or 5 days for Bioware to resolve those bugs ! Did they said they were sorry ? Did they gave us something to apolgize for those days ? BIG NO !!! I'm a subscriber since the beginning and I bough the collector box, I spend money on cartel Market and i'm not the only one and we have the right to expect a quality game ! That's explain why people are pissed off when something wrong with SWTOR !!! Edited October 21, 2013 by Uludelu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicktopus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/#more-13450 Oh good, saves me linking it. Yes, criticism is useful as long as you clearly explain what you don't like and why, it's the best kind of feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I mean, you wake up, hit your work desk on a monday morning, which hits like a truck for everyone, and first thing you got to do is go through the piles of whining, entitlment, swearing, and all sorts of messages, polite or not, which all bring down to the same message " your game sucks , blah blah blah " Give'em a break. Oh I doubt anyone that works for BW reads the forums on a monday morning. Not even the forum admins... I'm sure they schedule meetings just to avoid going on the forums first thing on a monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) I believe a Bioware Monday morning goes like this (according to popular opinion): 1. Wake up. Read forums. 2. Delete a random file from every server so it lags or crashes. 3. laugh at players who got booted from server 4. Open old armor piece in paint shop pro. 5. Recolor using fill bucket and release new armor to cartel market. 6. Swim in piles of cash made from new armor. Buy new Porsche. 7. Code entire PvE space sim. 8. Delete code for the Lolz. 9. Post on forums about known server bug. 10. Drink coffee for the next 32 hours, laughing at server issues. 11. Post in customer service asking for feedback. 12. Go back to drinking coffee. 13. Drive Porsche home for the weekend. Edited October 21, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiJuanShenobi Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I mean, you wake up, hit your work desk on a monday morning, which hits like a truck for everyone, and first thing you got to do is go through the piles of whining, entitlment, swearing, and all sorts of messages, polite or not, which all bring down to the same message " your game sucks , blah blah blah " Give'em a break. Don't mean to be the one to dampen your spirits, but welcome to MMO's. There is nothing that can be done to convince everyone to not act like jack wagons. It happens in the forums of every single game out there. Part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwnerJord Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 But today's morning will consist of lots of Coffee and sweets, as they watch all the money pour in from people spending a lot on the new packs (This post is not aimed to be insultive. If people find it as such, it is most likely because they are people who insult BW themselves. I hope Bioware has a great morning going through any and all mess on the forums!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous." "They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius. Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic." "Everyone who dislikes your work is right." "This is the hardest pill to swallow. I’ve never gotten a piece of feedback that was wrong. You see, you can’t deny a player their unique experience. Whatever they felt, was true. For them. And something in your work triggered it. It is useless, and worse, actually self-defeating, to attempt to deny the critique. Sure, there are sometimes reviews that seem spiteful, unfair, and the rest. But the vast majority of the time, people are giving their honest reaction. And the bottom line is, you put the game out there in order to get reactions. If it were not for reactions, you could have just kept the game in your drawer and gotten everything you needed out of it." - Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/#more-13450 . This is great stuff. I wish more people would understand things as clearly as Mr. Koster does. Thank you for you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I mean, you wake up, hit your work desk on a monday morning, which hits like a truck for everyone, and first thing you got to do is go through the piles of whining, entitlment, swearing, and all sorts of messages, polite or not, which all bring down to the same message " your game sucks , blah blah blah " Give'em a break. Yeah, cuz this is a really tough job for them...right? If I did as poorly at my job as some people at Bioware do at theirs (QA), I'd just be thankful I had a job to come to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) My 2 Cents (in Euro currency) : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBase http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb If I'm criticised by "fans" and stop working on what they've criticised, the "fans" will get 2 things : 1. The belief that they were right. 2. The feeling of Power ("Look ! He left after we criticismed him !") To endure criticism is "manly" leaving because of it is "unmanly", and "fans" believe that anyone who left because of criticism was crap himself/herself anyway. Further reading : http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/31/4572764/leading-developers-on-fame-misfortune-and-the-troll-peril Edited October 21, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Why dont you just post in the other bioware is awesome thread so you people can more easily identify and stroke together while singing bioware praises. This is the real world and the real world has problems. Sit there patting yourself on the back long enough and you will be dethroned from the meteocrity slot Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 My 2 Cents (in Euro currency) : If I'm criticised by "fans" and stop working on what they've criticised, the "fans" will get 2 things : 1. The belief that they were right. 2. The feeling of Power ("Look ! He left after we criticismed him !") To endure criticism is "manly" leaving because of it is "unmanly", and "fans" believe that anyone who left because of criticism was crap himself/herself anyway. This is silly...the "fans" are your f'ing customers...every business needs to listen to their customers. Running a business isn't about "power over the people", it's about making $! Sounds like this is all some ego trip for that dude. If you can't handle criticism, stay the hell out of the business world. Criticism is nothing more than FEEDBACK! Accept it as such and improve your service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is great stuff. I wish more people would understand things as clearly as Mr. Koster does. Thank you for you post. Except that you need to read it in context. Mr Koster is not an advocate of ranty, bratty, non-constructive feedback. His point is that feedback that is constructive (even if highly critical in nature) is valuable and people who receive feedback should listen to said feedback (which by the way should not be confused as meaning they must embrace said feedback without thought and purpose). His blog on feedback from games will now be used out of context by every game hater on the planet for the next decade... as we have already seen here in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorill Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I dont think most of the developers look at the forums everyday like some people will believe. They probably get info filtered to them from the community team. It only matters in the hands of the decision makers anyways. If they are looking at the forums then they arent doing their job to start with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) I dont think most of the developers look at the forums everyday like some people will believe. They probably get info filtered to them from the community team. It only matters in the hands of the decision makers anyways. If they are looking at the forums then they arent doing their job to start with /Agree. If I were the PM on the continued development of SWTOR.. the last thing I would want is my devs spending time combing the forums and responding to threads. And when I say this I am NOT saying that comments in the forum should not be harvested and fed back to the devs....only that there are efficient and effective methods to do this that do not dilute developer cycles (which should be focused on actual content work). The proper method (a method that appears to be in fact applied by Bioware) is to have people focused on communications with the forum membership (ie: Eric's team) who have a responsibility to capture key feedback and push it to the appropriate people on the development team for further review and follow-up. And, there will be times when it is in fact appropriate for a dev to come and respond directly.. and that too happens from my observation Edited October 21, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Yeah, cuz this is a really tough job for them...right? If I did as poorly at my job as some people at Bioware do at theirs (QA), I'd just be thankful I had a job to come to. You haven't had your coffee yet TUX? Issues aside, the devs work very hard. I know they do because I work with devs just like them (no, not them, just like them). Typically, QA problems are outside of their control as in, they are forced to meet particular deadlines and things have to be released no matter what. So rail if you want, but devs doing the dev and testers doing the testing aren't the problem. And they are thankful to have a job and thus they let things go for the sake of that job. That is the reality. Edited October 21, 2013 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorill Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 /Agree. If I were the PM on the continued development of SWTOR.. the last thing I would want is my devs spending time combing the forums and responding to threads. And when I say this I am NOT saying that comments in the forum should not be harvested and fed back to the devs....only that there are efficient and effective methods to do this that do not dilute developer cycles (which should be focused on actual content work). The proper method (a method that appears to be in fact applied by Bioware) is to have people focused on communications with the forum membership (ie: Eric's team) who have a responsibility to capture key feedback and push it to the appropriate people on the development team for further review and follow-up. And, there will be times when it is in fact appropriate for a dev to come and respond directly.. and that too happens from my observation Im guessing thats how most mmo's operate anyways. Developers would go insane and just quit due to stress otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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