MsMalice Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Crouch should be left as is. At least sorcs/mercs have a knockback whereas scoundrels do not. it's gonna be so much fun being immediately lept to and eating 3 smashes while being rooted from a vengence ravage. I think it's time to gear my jugg & assassin. Edited October 19, 2013 by MsMalice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 It would be nice if shoot first was at least in line with the damage maul can do...Not only does maul crit harder but it can be used out of stealth and its going to get a damage increase in 2.5....*sigh* Raansu, you seem like a nice person, but the comments from you and the person to whom you are responding are disconcerting. What class/specification proves difficult enough that you want a 10k critical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Raansu, you seem like a nice person, but the comments from you and the person to whom you are responding are disconcerting. What class/specification proves difficult enough that you want a 10k critical? 10k mauls only happen on undergeared players. Also, this is a fact that assassins have much more burst than scoundrels. Not only do they have guaranteed crits on discharge, they have a back attack that consistently crits harder than shoot first, which requires stealth to even use while maul does not. Assassins also have considerably much better DCD's than a scoundrel. If a scoundrel doesn't get a good burst on their opener they are more or less dead. They are literally a glass cannon without the cannon on their opener. No one wants scoundrels to be one shotting people, but we sure as hell want our burst to not only be consistent, but be in line with the other stealth class. Hell, if anything scrapper burst should be better than assassins since they have better survivability than scrappers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrekxxx Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Healing output from operatives healers must be nerfed to -20%/-30%; healing of mercs must be buffed +20%. just loled ... you don't prolly know anything about how those classes parse in pve ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenitsubasaChiyo Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You're a funny one, OP. This change affects nothing in regards to Soundrels' healing output, so you'll be seeing insane numbers from us for the next few months, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) You act like this change is the end of the world. Just pillar-hump like every other 'world-class' Scoundrel/Operative does. You forgot DD Sages/Sorcerors as well. 10k mauls only happen on undergeared players. You don't play much u55 matches, do you ? Edited October 19, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You forgot DD Sages/Sorcerors as well. You don't play much u55 matches, do you ? u55? As in lowbies? LOL! Who the hell cares about lowbies? No one takes lowbies seriously, and trying to balance anything in lowbies would be idiotic considering there is a over 20 level gap between both brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You don't play much u55 matches, do you ? Oh be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) 10k mauls only happen on undergeared players. Also, this is a fact that assassins have much more burst than scoundrels. Not only do they have guaranteed crits on discharge, they have a back attack that consistently crits harder than shoot first, which requires stealth to even use while maul does not. Assassins also have considerably much better DCD's than a scoundrel. If a scoundrel doesn't get a good burst on their opener they are more or less dead. They are literally a glass cannon without the cannon on their opener. No one wants scoundrels to be one shotting people, but we sure as hell want our burst to not only be consistent, but be in line with the other stealth class. Hell, if anything scrapper burst should be better than assassins since they have better survivability than scrappers do. Sins don't get guaranteed Discharge crits. They have heightened crit chance from Recklessness. Sins don't get "consistent" Maul crits. Back Blast/Shoot First has a higher crit chance with talents. Last time I checked, ExProbe=>Backstab=>Lacerate spam was more reliable damage than Maul, mainly because you need it to, first, proc, and, second, crit. I play a Darkmaul (switching to Infil/Balance hybrid from time to time) Shadow and a Concealment Operative. Sins don't get "much better" DCDs. Resilience is pretty much Dodge for yellow attacks, they have the same vanish power. Yeah, Sins get deflection, but Smugglers get better CC. Grass is always greener. Edited October 20, 2013 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 No one takes lowbies seriously, You hereby proved ALL of my prejudices I have against PvP players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 You hereby proved ALL of my prejudices I have against PvP players. Cry more. Lowbie pvp is something that cannot be balanced. There is a massive level gap in both of the brackets. Bolster or not there will always be an ability and talent tree disparity. Good players will always do well, but you can just give up on ever expecting it to be balanced. Taking lowbies seriously is just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Sins don't get guaranteed Discharge crits. They have heightened crit chance from Recklessness. Sins don't get "consistent" Maul crits. Back Blast/Shoot First has a higher crit chance with talents. Last time I checked, ExProbe=>Backstab=>Lacerate spam was more reliable damage than Maul, mainly because you need it to, first, proc, and, second, crit. I play a Darkmaul (switching to Infil/Balance hybrid from time to time) Shadow and a Concealment Operative. Sins don't get "much better" DCDs. Resilience is pretty much Dodge for yellow attacks, they have the same vanish power. Yeah, Sins get deflection, but Smugglers get better CC. Grass is always greener. Most of the best of the best scrappers are now playing jedi shadows. Deflection and resilience are way more powerful than dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Most of the best of the best scrappers are now playing jedi shadows. Deflection and resilience are way more powerful than dodge. Oh I agree that Sin DPS are better adapted for Arena environment. But scrappers aren't utterly inferior in almost every single way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 so now that cover is usless, can EP be used out of cover? This. Only reason I use cover, plus to annoy smash monkeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Oh I agree that Sin DPS are better adapted for Arena environment. But scrappers aren't utterly inferior in almost every single way. Yes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFXedits Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 i'm still trying to figure out what ability a scoundrel uses that the op is worried about having interrupted orbital strike(to place on node), kolto injection... Etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yes they are. No, they aren't. Practice more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No, they aren't. Practice more. You clearly do not have a scrapper if you truly think they are even remotely on par with assassins. The ONLY thing they have better is an aoe mez and a shorter CD on a stun (scamper is near useless in arenas.) Assassins have better burst, better DCD's, a knockback and taunts. As far as stealth classes go, scrappers are inferior in every way. To say otherwise is pure ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You clearly do not have a scrapper if you truly think they are even remotely on par with assassins. The ONLY thing they have better is an aoe mez and a shorter CD on a stun (scamper is near useless in arenas.) Assassins have better burst, better DCD's, a knockback and taunts. As far as stealth classes go, scrappers are inferior in every way. To say otherwise is pure ignorance. No, I don't have a Scrapper. I have a Concealment Operative. My Scoundrel is Sawbones. I did say that Sins are better adapted for Arena environment, but I believe you're grossly overstating the magnitude of the issue. Scamper is not useless. It triggers Evasion (full purge) and it's great for LoSing/countering LoS, provided you can aim it well. Good for chaining with actual Evasion, giving you essentially Undying Rage's duration against white damage. Good for dodging Smash as well (granted, doesn't always work if you're charge-rooted). Root on Sever Tendon is far from useless. I also believe that you're understating the value of a hard stun on 30 seconds for hard switch burn phases. AoE mez is AoE mez. Yes, Concealment/Scrapper could use some help in the Arena department. Yes, it needs better out-of-stealth burst. Yes, it needs more survivability. But creating what essentially amounts to a threat narrative isn't ignorant - it's misleading and it creates grounds for vocal, entitled players who aren't necessarily good, to rally. My standing advice to players who create such threat narratives is - play the class that you consider OP yourself. Not in lowbies - balance there is awful anyway - but at 55. Grass is always, always greener. I have 55s of all AC types. All have at least semi-optimized baseline PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Cry more. Yes, I try to. I'm fetching my tissues right now. I'm improving, actually. At least ONE thing I learned here at the forums ... "Cry more" = "I'm not interested in your opinion. Only my opinion counts." Edited October 21, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 spec to dirty fighting ????? Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishihadaname Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 spec to dirty fighting ????? Profit Oh please. Lethality is the spec that getting shafted hardest by this cover nerf. Ever notice that lethality op ganking someone in melee? yah me neither. We open from range and burst targets of opportunity but we never stay in melee. Cover was our way of denying warriors their leap and made us effective against them. A decent smasher only need to hit you about 5 times to kill you as a lethality op, you need to keep him bleeding for at least 20s before you can cull burst him to death. This is what cover was for. You make them come to you and deny them the benefit of a leap. This cover nerf isn't going to do anything to healers, its going to hurt concealment and kill lethality. A lethality op in melee range is a dead lethality op. We set up at 30m, burst from 10m, and only go into melee range to get our procs (which should be made obtainable from 10m at least!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 This cover nerf isn't going to do anything to healers, its going to hurt concealment and kill lethality. A lethality op in melee range is a dead lethality op. We set up at 30m, burst from 10m, and only go into melee range to get our procs (which should be made obtainable from 10m at least!). It will. No more comfy sitting in the backline for me without fear of getting yanked over or charged on my Scoundrel. Gonna have to move like on Commando and Sage. As far as movement is concerned, sometimes you just see a pull coming and can't do anything about it. If you're a Sage, at least. Mando has HTL, Scoundrel, till 2.5, has crouch. Will be harder after that, definitely. As far as Lethality foes, all of your DoTs are instants, and you can play peek-a-boo with Warriors. Granted, not quite as lucrative as just crouching, but nothing that Madness Sorcs don't do on a regular basis when they fend off Warriors and Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) And that is something people need to understand too... Scoundrel got 2 resources. Energy and upper hand. A scoundrel can run out of energy. Saying otherwise is silly. On top of it, we have to manage our upper hands. And no we don't have unlimited upper hands. Not sure if serious. Edited October 21, 2013 by Laforet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishihadaname Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 As far as Lethality foes, all of your DoTs are instants, and you can play peek-a-boo with Warriors. Granted, not quite as lucrative as just crouching, but nothing that Madness Sorcs don't do on a regular basis when they fend off Warriors and Knights. That would be a valid tactic if we had the rest of the madness sorcs toolkit. They can do their rotation fully from range, have a knockback, an OS bubble (though I guess our vanish is comparable in most ways), but more importantly they have superior off healing, better instants and no need for tangling in melee. Lethality is going to be the gimpier version of the madness sorc with this nerf, we won't be able to hold ground any better than they will but we also won't be able to kite like they can and will still need to duck into melee. Basically what i'm saying is that dps ops were weak to start with and now they are getting weaker by losing a useful tool. Not sure why that was needed (or why we can't get perks in the dps trees to negate this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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