BioWare: Please implement "Hot Fixing"

[Kurin]

I've worked as a professional software developer since 1984, so I understand there will be bugs upon release, and they are often of the nature that they can be fixed quickly and easily, even if they are annoying to the customer base for a couple of days.

 

But to minimize this frustration, can BW please implement hot fixing? Something like items missing from the vendors, and the final boss of the Dread Palace operation are exactly the kinds of bugs and fixes I would expect can be done via a hot fix. I know that that OTHER big MMO has this tech, and it really is nice from a player stand point.

[Bstr]

I've worked as a professional software developer since 1984, so I understand there will be bugs upon release, and they are often of the nature that they can be fixed quickly and easily, even if they are annoying to the customer base for a couple of days.

 

But to minimize this frustration, can BW please implement hot fixing? Something like items missing from the vendors, and the final boss of the Dread Palace operation are exactly the kinds of bugs and fixes I would expect can be done via a hot fix. I know that that OTHER big MMO has this tech, and it really is nice from a player stand point.

 

*Looks at 2.4.0a patch and patch notes and then back at post*

 

Isn't 2.4.0a a hot fix? It is a small update that came out 2 days after 2.4 and addresses multiple bugs with the update. Most of them are mentioned in your post.

 

In fact, all the updates with a letter after them are hot fixes.

 

EDIT: If you are talking about server-side only hot fixes, I only know of a few programs that are not internet browser based that do this. And some of them run into bigger problems when they release a server-side fix instead of the problems of just forcing the client to download a small patch.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Bstr

[AlienEyeTX]

*Looks at 2.4.0a patch and patch notes and then back at post*

 

Isn't 2.4.0a a hot fix? It is a small update that came out 2 days after 2.4 and addresses multiple bugs with the update. Most of them are mentioned in your post.

 

In fact, all the updates with a letter after them are hot fixes.

 

I think he means that they need to implement some easy fixes without any downtime. Patch can be pushed silently in the background.

 

Not sure that's possible on the SWTOR servers. It would be nice, but I imagine they would be doing that if they could.

[ImpactHound]

The game company Blizzard Entertainment has a different use of the term hotfix for their game World of Warcraft:

"A hotfix is a change made to the game deemed critical enough that it cannot be held off until a regular content patch. Hotfixes require only a server-side change with no download and can be implemented with no downtime, or a short restart of the realms."

 

I assume this is what you meant. Hero Engine probably can't do it while running.

[ninjonxb]

I assume this is what you meant. Hero Engine probably can't do it while running.

 

I highly doubt it truly has anything to do with the hero engine and just has to do with how the game is built.

 

To build a system that works when the client (your game) and the server are out of date or have different information would be fairly complex and I would wager WoW is one of the few if not the only MMO with it.

 

Besides, I guarantee that not everything can be done this way. I am sure there have been times they wanted to hotfix but they couldnt so they had to put out a patch. Either due to the server needing downtime or something needed clientside.

 

However they are somewhat going that way. THe CM is now dynamic so depenidng on how that is achieved... they may be able to adapt that for other things. But the CM change could just be nothing more than a well built admin interface.

[GatorAndy]

I highly doubt it truly has anything to do with the hero engine and just has to do with how the game is built.

 

To build a system that works when the client (your game) and the server are out of date or have different information would be fairly complex and I would wager WoW is one of the few if not the only MMO with it.

 

Besides, I guarantee that not everything can be done this way. I am sure there have been times they wanted to hotfix but they couldnt so they had to put out a patch. Either due to the server needing downtime or something needed clientside.

 

However they are somewhat going that way. THe CM is now dynamic so depenidng on how that is achieved... they may be able to adapt that for other things. But the CM change could just be nothing more than a well built admin interface.

 

I was originally thinking along the lines of the CM updates as well, but I don't think these are manually changed. I'm guessing they're done on a timer. Where, in the code, item X will be available for sale on Z date.

 

My reason for thinking this is when they had items missing from packs, they didn't add them until a patch was done. If they could add items manually whenever they wanted, they wouldn't need to patch.

 

That being said, it does seem to me that something like a vendor not having a certain item would be a server-side fix; but, I have no idea how a system as complex as an MMO game is exactly set up. I just do web development.

[TUXs]

ib4 Arkerus suggests he make his own game

[ninjonxb]

I was originally thinking along the lines of the CM updates as well, but I don't think these are manually changed. I'm guessing they're done on a timer. Where, in the code, item X will be available for sale on Z date.

 

My reason for thinking this is when they had items missing from packs, they didn't add them until a patch was done. If they could add items manually whenever they wanted, they wouldn't need to patch.

 

That being said, it does seem to me that something like a vendor not having a certain item would be a server-side fix; but, I have no idea how a system as complex as an MMO game is exactly set up. I just do web development.

 

So could be completely false and may or may not be true for this or any game... But

 

With this game. It seems they either have all vendor information client side... or for verifcation purposes they have it on both client and server side

 

For WoW, I am assuming 1 or 2 things. They either made the game in a way where most things like vendors are server side and the only things client side are graphic files and some code.

Or they made it so the game can download and install small patches while it is running. Or a mix of the 2.

 

 

 

Technically speaking. If the game is programmed in this way there is no reason the vendor information couldnt be sitting on the server and made editable with a script or an admin interface. And the client side just gets that information.

However an argument could be made for simplicity that there is a system of checks where the client side and server side have to match up for what a vendor has... again... not saying this is how SWTOR does it... but a possibility.

[Kurin]

I was referring to the ability to fix the game without downtime or delay. Maybe a better term is 'Live Fixing", instead of "Hot Fixing". The term hot fix, comes from the electrician community, etc., where you fix a live or hot wire, without disruption to the power. That's what I'm asking for BW to implement....no downtime. No delay. Just do it right now. At times, Blizzard will be forced to literally change boss fights multiple times during world first attempts...it is possible.

 

I can see this being implemented in 2 stages: First, enable server-side only changes, like with boss fights, where the boss script is wonky, or vendors that aren't stocked properly, but the client has the graphics, because the "error" was on the server side. A mob mechanic, is probably script and code. The script says "spread disease", and the code executes "spread disease". The code of the mechanic would be a more difficult hot fix....but that doesn't mean I don't want that implemented LIVE...just that I understand it's more difficult.

 

And then second stage, is to allow LIVE micro-client downloads, with the missing graphics, etc., for changes where the client needs this extra "content".

 

Also, I'm only suggesting this for the "game breaking" bugs. Save up the regular bugs for patch day, for sure, because these hot fixes are going to be VERY risky changes. A sliver bullet if you will.

[LordArtemis]

IF...and that is a big if...the streaming update issues could be fixed this could be a possibility.

[bsbrad]

I highly doubt it truly has anything to do with the hero engine and just has to do with how the game is built.

....

I would wager WoW is one of the few if not the only MMO with it.

...

 

The original Guild Wars had this capability and would never experience the server downtimes that SW:TOR has been having. Basically the fix was made server side and your client would be notified. If you are still in the game the game would state that a new patch is available whereby you can either continue to play on the old patch or re-start the client upon which the patch will be streamed.

 

Also, due to the streaming asset nature of this implementation it meant that the patches weren't hundreds of MB in size and barely kept you out of the game for a couple of mins, unlike the SW:TOR shutdowns of 4 hrs+

[chuixupu]

I assume this is what you meant. Hero Engine probably can't do it while running.

 

Blizzard's streaming updates weren't implemented into their game until Cataclysm, iirc. It's just more time and money and the them deciding it's something worth prioritizing.

[ImpactHound]

ib4 Arkerus suggests he make his own game

 

Or Malastare, lol.

 

Blizzard's streaming updates weren't implemented into their game until Cataclysm, iirc. It's just more time and money and the them deciding it's something worth prioritizing.

 

Right, it was more an affirmation about what he was referring to, hotfix to some companies is just an urgent patch for a "hot" or serious issue that's still on an offline server, but scheduled immediately.

Edited October 4, 2013 by ImpactHound