Devs plan on nerfing our survivability...

[NogueiraA]

I'm totally fine if they nerf the dcd's and give a 4sec stun to the class

Would be OP unbalanced? Look at Sniper/GS, they have MORE dcd's than marauders AND a 4sec stun, THIS is bs.

[olcraft]

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6801929#post6801929

 

From Mercenary's top 3 questions answers:

 

 

So what we got that is worth nerfing?

Cloak? But we need to be in the melee fray with weaker armor.

Undying Rage? It already cuts our health by half, and it was BW who gave us back the extra 1s with PvP set bonus.

Saber Ward? That would affect Jugs too, so I doubt it. And it got a long cooldown anyway.

Camouflage? It is our threat reducer too, and it needs to be at 45s.

 

That is about it. I guess they can make Camouflage give no damage reduction for its duration, and remove set bonus and talents that buff Undying Rage, so that it is set on 1.5 min cooldown for 4s no matter what.

 

I am pretty sure they are gonna nerf Cloak of pain/Rebuke. Compared to dps juggs/guardians, 20% all dmg reduction for 30 seconds at max is just too much. Smasher guardians has lower damage reduction than a sent with a cloak of pain and their survivability is laughable. Vigilance guardians can use focused defense to gain comparable damage mitigation at the cost of draining their precious focus. It hurts their dps by screwing up their focus management. And It lasts for only 10 seconds anyway. Of course some of you might think 20% dmg reduction isn't much anyway due to OP snipers and craps like electronet, stunlock whatever. You are right 20% dmg reduction isn't much. But compared to dps juggs/guardians it needs to be tweaked. I was hoping that they would buff dps guardians/juggernauts survivability without nerfing sents/marauders (except for smash monkeys! I have no sympathy for them). But I guess Bioware is gonna nerf all sents/marauders instead. I have no idea how they are gonna nerf watchman though. That spec is already overnerfed.

[olcraft]

Forgot to mention 30% aoe dmg reduction. Dps juggs/guardians don't have those either.

[TheCourier-]

Watchman spec will be completely dead for PVP if Bioware nerfs sentinel's defensive CDs. I guess WZs will have 4 AP PTs per team when patch 2.5 is released. AP PTs are already FotM on Pot5.

[Zoom_VI]

Watchman spec will be completely dead for PVP if Bioware nerfs sentinel's defensive CDs. I guess WZs will have 4 AP PTs per team when patch 2.5 is released. AP PTs are already FotM on Pot5.

 

I'm pretty sure smashmonkey FOTM > PT FOTM. Rage players just hate PT cause it has 30% aoe redux

 

Also I remember reading somewhere that the nerf would be something along the lines of just making the health reduction from UR occur at the end of UR rather than the beginning. I.E instead of popping UR at 10% and getting healed to 60%+. you pop UR at 10% get healed to 60% then drop to 30% at the end of the effect.

[milehighclub]

deleted Edited October 12, 2013 by milehighclub

[verfallen]

I am pretty sure they are gonna nerf Cloak of pain/Rebuke. Compared to dps juggs/guardians, 20% all dmg reduction for 30 seconds at max is just too much. Smasher guardians has lower damage reduction than a sent with a cloak of pain and their survivability is laughable. Vigilance guardians can use focused defense to gain comparable damage mitigation at the cost of draining their precious focus. It hurts their dps by screwing up their focus management. And It lasts for only 10 seconds anyway. Of course some of you might think 20% dmg reduction isn't much anyway due to OP snipers and craps like electronet, stunlock whatever. You are right 20% dmg reduction isn't much. But compared to dps juggs/guardians it needs to be tweaked. I was hoping that they would buff dps guardians/juggernauts survivability without nerfing sents/marauders (except for smash monkeys! I have no sympathy for them). But I guess Bioware is gonna nerf all sents/marauders instead. I have no idea how they are gonna nerf watchman though. That spec is already overnerfed.

 

They already mentionned they are most likely removed the cost of enraged defense, so roughly vengeance will have 10 sec of being healed on hit with higher DR due to heavy armor.

 

Issue with marauder, is most defensive cooldowns are baseline with limited effect from the specs. The most noteworthy being cost reduction on rage UR, which I expect will be the first nerf on their list. So by trying to bring rage pvp spec in line, you severly hurt annihilation which is in a bad place (altough the madness dot protection trial is something I'll monitor closely hoping for similar treatment of anni) and carnage is already rather squishy without does cooldown, squishier than rage, which isn't normal imo.

 

But many jug currently look to maras and think grass is greener than it really is compared to their side.

 

Endure pain + WZ medpac

Saber reflect

Saber ward with 2 sec of blade turning

Heavy armor

Heals on intercede

 

They are all things mara don't have either

 

On the utility rage jug vs rage mara, rage jug is also a clear winner with free aoe snare after jumps and taunts. As far as WZ goes.

 

Once you take out UR, and make Enraged defense worth it, whats the new field? Why would you take a jug rage over a mara rage?

[TheCourier-]

I'm pretty sure smashmonkey FOTM > PT FOTM.

 

LOL. There are a ton of powertechs on Pot5. You obviously do not play on Pot5.

[olcraft]

They already mentionned they are most likely removed the cost of enraged defense, so roughly vengeance will have 10 sec of being healed on hit with higher DR due to heavy armor.

 

Issue with marauder, is most defensive cooldowns are baseline with limited effect from the specs. The most noteworthy being cost reduction on rage UR, which I expect will be the first nerf on their list. So by trying to bring rage pvp spec in line, you severly hurt annihilation which is in a bad place (altough the madness dot protection trial is something I'll monitor closely hoping for similar treatment of anni) and carnage is already rather squishy without does cooldown, squishier than rage, which isn't normal imo.

 

But many jug currently look to maras and think grass is greener than it really is compared to their side.

 

Endure pain + WZ medpac

Saber reflect

Saber ward with 2 sec of blade turning

Heavy armor

Heals on intercede

 

They are all things mara don't have either

 

On the utility rage jug vs rage mara, rage jug is also a clear winner with free aoe snare after jumps and taunts. As far as WZ goes.

 

Once you take out UR, and make Enraged defense worth it, whats the new field? Why would you take a jug rage over a mara rage?

 

Heavy armor is only useful against white kinetic damage. Even with the immortal tree 15% armor boost talent, vengeance spec's armor rating is around 5-6% better than marauder's armor rating. This 5 -6% kinetic damage reduction difference between a vengeance jugg and a marauder is easily compensated by Rebuke

's 20% damage reduction because the enraged defense gives you 15% damage reduction for only 10 seconds. Rebuke is 20% damage reduction against all types of damage and lasts up to 30 seconds. Rage juggs don't even have all these defense bonuses enjoyed by Vengeance juggs and are far behind marauders in terms of their survivability. Seriously, do you truly think juggs wear heavy armors just to look pretty? And about free aoe snares and taunts, ya aoe snares are useful but taunts not so much. Taunts are for tanks. The damage absorbed by taunting alone is very small anyway. Dps juggs are meant to be tankier and marauders are supposed to be better at dpsing. In case of rage spec, marauders are hands down tankier than the juggs.

I've never had respect for smash monkey marauders, but i've never asked for a marauder nerf either. I have a marauder too and i truly wish they would buff dps juggs instead of nerfing all marauders. But don't try to pretend that marauders aren't any better than dps juggs either.

[Kaedusz]

I hope this nerf doesn't damage Annihilation and Carnage in pvp too much.Yea annihilation is already damaged but still. Edited October 12, 2013 by Kaedusz

[MusicRider]

Will be impossible to survive as a marauder, it'll affect everybody because the healers really fear marauders, not anymore.

Next step: nerf heals because the only one able to push burst to kill them were nerfed.

Next step: nerf ranged classes because melees are so poor.

 

l2p issue. I'm very much fine on my sentinel/mara and if there is a healer around it is like god mode.

[Ashuranrx]

LOL. There are a ton of powertechs on Pot5. You obviously do not play on Pot5.

 

I know right. The devs should make Undying Rage give 30% damage reduction and heal for its duration and can only be activated on 30% health or less. And I will be happy. LOL

[UndyingHadyn]

The developers have stated that they try to uphold correlations between damage potential and survivability. Based on the current damage reduction capabilities that marauders can utilize, if those abilities were reduced, theoretically you would see a dps increase appear in some form. Even if the potential was not significantly increased, there would definitely be a functionality rewrite, or at least there should be( annihilation for example ).

 

In regards to pvp, there are ways around a marauder's survivability traits. Example would be duels I've had, where the marauder's cloak of pain can be mezzed and thus timed out by withholding attacks on them. Same goes for the inevitable immunity, which when fighting a marauder, you should always save a cc for.

 

On my jug for example, unless I'm rage spec vs rage spec, marauders are easier to shut down than you think. Instead of a hard nerf, I'd rather see for example, the 30% aoe reduction placed higher in the middle tree. In effect, there would be no need to nerf anything, but instead we'd have specialized damage reduction only available to certain specs.

 

In essence, marauders would be balanced in this regard by simply making the 30% aoe DR a higher tier middle tree feat.

[TheCourier-]

The developers have stated that they try to uphold correlations between damage potential and survivability. Based on the current damage reduction capabilities that marauders can utilize, if those abilities were reduced, theoretically you would see a dps increase appear in some form. Even if the potential was not significantly increased, there would definitely be a functionality rewrite, or at least there should be( annihilation for example ).

 

In regards to pvp, there are ways around a marauder's survivability traits. Example would be duels I've had, where the marauder's cloak of pain can be mezzed and thus timed out by withholding attacks on them. Same goes for the inevitable immunity, which when fighting a marauder, you should always save a cc for.

 

On my jug for example, unless I'm rage spec vs rage spec, marauders are easier to shut down than you think. Instead of a hard nerf, I'd rather see for example, the 30% aoe reduction placed higher in the middle tree. In effect, there would be no need to nerf anything, but instead we'd have specialized damage reduction only available to certain specs.

 

In essence, marauders would be balanced in this regard by simply making the 30% aoe DR a higher tier middle tree feat.

 

Moving the AOE damage reduction to high in the carnage tree would be something that would not completely break marauders. I would much rather the 30% AOE damage taken reduction passive defense be moved to high in the carnage tree than marauder's active defensive CDs get nerfed.

Edited October 12, 2013 by TheCourier-

[MichealR]

Another case of a class being completely ruined because of bioware's overreaction to people crying on forums. A mara/sent kills you, respawn and try again. Dont come to forums whining and complaining. Maras being nerfed hurts the entire game not just the people playing rage spec. And FYI not all maras play rage, most i know dont, so to nerf the entire class because of one spec is idoitic and probably going to cost subs and money.

[verfallen]

Heavy armor is only useful against white kinetic damage. Even with the immortal tree 15% armor boost talent, vengeance spec's armor rating is around 5-6% better than marauder's armor rating. This 5 -6% kinetic damage reduction difference between a vengeance jugg and a marauder is easily compensated by Rebuke

's 20% damage reduction because the enraged defense gives you 15% damage reduction for only 10 seconds. Rebuke is 20% damage reduction against all types of damage and lasts up to 30 seconds. Rage juggs don't even have all these defense bonuses enjoyed by Vengeance juggs and are far behind marauders in terms of their survivability. Seriously, do you truly think juggs wear heavy armors just to look pretty? And about free aoe snares and taunts, ya aoe snares are useful but taunts not so much. Taunts are for tanks. The damage absorbed by taunting alone is very small anyway. Dps juggs are meant to be tankier and marauders are supposed to be better at dpsing. In case of rage spec, marauders are hands down tankier than the juggs.

I've never had respect for smash monkey marauders, but i've never asked for a marauder nerf either. I have a marauder too and i truly wish they would buff dps juggs instead of nerfing all marauders. But don't try to pretend that marauders aren't any better than dps juggs either.

 

You conveniently kept out something about cloak of pain rebuke : slap a cc on the mara when things pop, and its going to be 20% for 6 seconds (10 sec talented; that I agree needs to be removed) Thing has to refresh, and dot dont count anymore.

 

Heavy armor vs medium basic difference is roughly 23% vs 27% with "at level" non end-game armoring. With the 4% permanent damage reduction, + enraged defense 15% you do have a more powerful but shorter defensive cooldown (19% against internal in that interval, 4% at all time 15% from enraged defense and its self-heals)

 

So in the end its very situationnal. Cloak of pain will do better if something keeps refreshing it, lets say a big brawl with lots of aoe, or someone not paying attention to the marauder's buff bar while fighting it. Enraged defense will do better against spike damage once its properly fixed by removing the rage cost on it. There is a way to neutralize cloak of pain by using its refresh mechanic against it, and it doesnt self-heal you.

 

 

You can nag at bit and details all you want, jugs are not in a bad place right now, and comparing different damage scenarios will yield different results. In a way, saber reflect is MUCH better than UR if I suppose a duel with a sniper rather than a brawl. Thats one situation of many.

 

Btw before posting I figured I'd go check your numbers, and it so happens my jug/mara are currently similarly geared.

 

Rage marauders currently pretty much equal vengence jug when their cloak of pain is up as far as DR goes, safe for a slight advantage against elemental/internal, big with no self heals. Both go up to 48% DR against kinetic/energy and 29% vs 37% for internal/elemental damage.

 

So nerf the spec, remove the UR life cost reduction, cloak of pain 10 sec duration before refresh (that makes it rather hard to avoid refreshing) and the 2% DR that comes with UR cd reduction.

 

Alternatively I'd say to join up blurred speed to close quarters in annihilation 4th tier, slap hungering in the 3rd, and put the 30% AoE reduction where hungering was. That way carnage player can easily go grab it with a 7/36/3 spec, but rage will have to sacrifice either Narrowed hatred or defensive forms to go get it, which will bring the total damage reduction loss to 4%, its Cloak of pain to 44%, or will cost dps to keep the more tanky feel.

[Elyx]

Judging from those comments it looks like they'll be doing away with the hybrid tax soon enough. The reasoning they provided almost mirror the ones given by WoW/Ghostcrawler back in 2008.

 

As a marauder I hope our utility and dps isn't gutted or "normalized" for PVE (and PVP) since we are frontline fighters and there are many more fights mechanics that are melee unfriendly. For example, most raids wouldn't mind having all ranged dps while all melee dps would raise eyebrows and present more challenges on fights like HM Tyrans and Titan 6. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

I wouldn't want to see overkill either. although im not happy with the current OP state of the mara/sniper, I dont' want the class to drop below where it should be. And I agree, fights need to provide enough balance and/or flexibility that raid don't want to switch out melee class A for ranged class B. although that isn't really what this argument is about. Juggernauts have a melee range spec, as to Operatives. that's a different argument (although I agree with you strongly on that).

 

In essence, if you read their comments, they want to end up exactly where ghostcrawler said he wanted pure DPS classes to be...roughly 3-5% ahead of the rest. that being that all other ducks are in line...utility needs to be equal across the board. functional utility that is. if everything else equals out, a pure DPS class that is PLAYED WELL should top hybrids by 5% max. in a progression guild where everyone else is putting in 100%, that should be enough reason to bring a pure DPS AC in itself. in the other 98% of the game, it simply will be a wash. bring the player, not the class.

 

On the general topic (not your comments specifically Pro) I honestly do not expect many Mara's or Snipers (since the indicated both) to want the change, and I expect most of you to find some odd logic to disagree. the arguments IMO are simply invalid....everyone knows the usefulness of both classes + their DPS that is far too high is resulting in raids with a predominance of just those two classes (Bio even knows AND admits this) so the nerf is coming, no matter how people want to spin their logic and class comparisons.

 

EDIT: Upon reading your comments Verf, i agree with your direction. adjust talents so there's a larger tradeoff for defensive skills. I think thats a good direction to take the conversation.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Elyx

[Elyx]

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6801929#post6801929

 

From Mercenary's top 3 questions answers:

 

 

So what we got that is worth nerfing?

Cloak? But we need to be in the melee fray with weaker armor.

Undying Rage? It already cuts our health by half, and it was BW who gave us back the extra 1s with PvP set bonus.

Saber Ward? That would affect Jugs too, so I doubt it. And it got a long cooldown anyway.

Camouflage? It is our threat reducer too, and it needs to be at 45s.

 

That is about it. I guess they can make Camouflage give no damage reduction for its duration, and remove set bonus and talents that buff Undying Rage, so that it is set on 1.5 min cooldown for 4s no matter what.

 

you also missed another portion of the comment, where they indicated that certain classes are simply doing "a bit more damage then we would like" they didn't specify mara/snipers, but i have a strong feeling that they do indeed mean those classes (and possible all the other classes that are currently doing more damage then the merc)

 

So not to be a gloomy george, but I would be prepared to see your damage drop as well in future adjustments. Or more specifically, the COMBINATION of the high DPS and survivability. So my thought is that they will balance the two out. a bit less survivability and mitigations AND utility. don't forget they brought that up as well.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Elyx

[KainrycKarr]

Duran'del here,

 

YES! Nerf them! Marauders need to be squishier so AP PTs have a chance of killing them! Yes!

Maras have some of the highest DPS outputs. It requires 0 skill to play. So they need to be squishy. Finally, BW is balancing out this game.

 

You must be a terrible AP.

[CellPerfect]

I said it before in a few different threads so I'm just going to copy and paste most of this in here, but nerfing undying rage across the board like they are going to isn't the fix that marauders need. The nerf to undying rage hurts carnage and annihilation much more than it hurts rage. Rage is the spec that everyone complains about, carnage and annihilation don't need any nerfs. Those specs are fine as they are. I'll quote part of what I said in that threat so that I don't have to type everything back out again.

 

I actually really don't like this idea because it would be more of a nerf to carnage and annihilation than it would be to rage. Rage (or smash spec for those of you who don't know) is the spec that gets the most complaints and would be more in need of a nerf than the other two. The reason it would be less of a nerf for rage is that in the rage tree, the talent "force vigor" causes you to only lose 25% of your HP when you use undying rage rather than the normal 50%. This means that if the changes take place, then at maximum, a non rage marauder could be healed to 50% when they use undying rage (pop the ability, get healed to 100%, then lose half of their current HP which would put them at 50%) where as a rage marauder would be able to be healed to 75% at maximum (again, pop the ability, get healed to 100%, lose 25% after the 5 seconds which puts them at 75% HP). This isn't much of a nerf for rage in my opinion and it would hurt carnage and annihilation, two specs that aren't in need of a nerf, more than rage.

 

As you can see, this nerf wouldn't really affect rage too much, where as it would hurt carnage and rage quite a lot.

 

If they want to fix marauders in terms of their defenses, I think they should:

• Remove the passive damage reduction talents in the rage tree (I believe it is 7%)
  
• Remove the buffs to undying rage in the rage tree
  
• Move defensive roll up in the carnage tree so that rage cannot get it (this would hurt annihilation as well but keep reading)
  
• move something down in place for defensive roll in the carnage tree (perhaps brooding?) or add a new talent in
  
• give annihilation a slight buff in defenses (for losing defensive roll) I would suggest either giving them the passive damage reduction from the rage tree or giving them back the 2% heals from crit bleeds rather than 1% (or maybe just 1.5%, not sure).
  

 

I think these changes would fix the crying about marauders without breaking anything. Rage would arguably be the squishiest spec we have, but it's damage would still be great and still arguably the best for PvP still. The other two specs would not be affected too much (which they shouldn't be seeing as they aren't overpowered). Rage would have to get some talents added / reworked because 2 of their talents would be changed, but they wouldn't be so tanky for a dps then which is the fix I believe they would need.

 

You conveniently kept out something about cloak of pain rebuke : slap a cc on the mara when things pop, and its going to be 20% for 6 seconds (10 sec talented; that I agree needs to be removed) Thing has to refresh, and dot dont count anymore.

 

Actually the ability is bugged currently. DoTs do refresh the duration of cloak of pain.

[kennethdale]

I wouldn't want to see overkill either. although im not happy with the current OP state of the mara/sniper, I dont' want the class to drop below where it should be. And I agree, fights need to provide enough balance and/or flexibility that raid don't want to switch out melee class A for ranged class B. although that isn't really what this argument is about. Juggernauts have a melee range spec, as to Operatives. that's a different argument (although I agree with you strongly on that).

 

In essence, if you read their comments, they want to end up exactly where ghostcrawler said he wanted pure DPS classes to be...roughly 3-5% ahead of the rest. that being that all other ducks are in line...utility needs to be equal across the board. functional utility that is. if everything else equals out, a pure DPS class that is PLAYED WELL should top hybrids by 5% max. in a progression guild where everyone else is putting in 100%, that should be enough reason to bring a pure DPS AC in itself. in the other 98% of the game, it simply will be a wash. bring the player, not the class.

 

On the general topic (not your comments specifically Pro) I honestly do not expect many Mara's or Snipers (since the indicated both) to want the change, and I expect most of you to find some odd logic to disagree. the arguments IMO are simply invalid....everyone knows the usefulness of both classes + their DPS that is far too high is resulting in raids with a predominance of just those two classes (Bio even knows AND admits this) so the nerf is coming, no matter how people want to spin their logic and class comparisons.

 

EDIT: Upon reading your comments Verf, i agree with your direction. adjust talents so there's a larger tradeoff for defensive skills. I think thats a good direction to take the conversation.

 

Unless you're talking strictly about PvP, you are part of the problem. Currently the highest parses are the absolutely broken Sniper hybrid spec that NEEDS to be nerfed followed by Operative Lethality which is again broken with OS. Below that you get Annihilation with is severely broken due to Double SA+Double SA proc off heals and damage on separate timers. What's the consistent factor? BROKEN MECHANICS. Nerfing an entire class because of a bug that you fixed but broke another thing then re-broke when you fixed the broken thing is completely stupid. Why are there more high Mara parses? Because there are more Maras. Its the law of large numbers. Marauder survivability is definitely too high atm but their DPS in PvE is not. Once you get rid of Double SA, Anni will take a huge hit (losing 1000+ power every 10-15 seconds). Once you take away the viability of Sniper Hybrid dps and lower the amount of damage dealt by OS Lethality Ops and Snipers will get normalized. The only true outlier is Jugg DPS which if BW follows through on their comments in the Jugg answers will drop even further behind.

 

As for PvP, Rage is definitely putting out too much damage while having too much survivability, but then so are Snipers (who can't be knocked back, have pushback immunity, and multiple KB/stuns/mezzes). How do you balance PvP with PvE when all of your metrics are completely flawed and every time you try to fix one thing you break 10 others?

[MidichIorian]

As a sage/sorc I don't think your DCD'es is the biggest issue, you'll eventually go down if we are allowed to cast. The problem is that it's significally easier for you to stay glued on us than it is for us to keep the distance and in combination with your burst it's just too much. Merc/BH is in the same position so the only ranged class with somewhat of an advantage is sniper/gunslinger but you can always cloak to those if everything els fails. I just think that if you're in optimal range you shouldnt have to use a bunch of DCD'es against ranged. That's when you currently use them though since ranged has no other option than to facetank you. It would be more reasonable if you had to use your DCD'es while closing the gap...but you don't have to because between your two leaps and slows you pretty much have them where you want them to be at all times anyway.

 

And if you can't stay glued on 99,9 % of all sorcs/sages (there arent more than a handful really good ones per server) you really need to L2P. The point is that you shouldnt have both gap closers/maintainers in abundance, burst and DCD'es. So take a pick.

Edited October 13, 2013 by MidichIorian

[verfallen]

I wouldn't want to see overkill either. although im not happy with the current OP state of the mara/sniper, I dont' want the class to drop below where it should be. And I agree, fights need to provide enough balance and/or flexibility that raid don't want to switch out melee class A for ranged class B. although that isn't really what this argument is about. Juggernauts have a melee range spec, as to Operatives. that's a different argument (although I agree with you strongly on that).

 

In essence, if you read their comments, they want to end up exactly where ghostcrawler said he wanted pure DPS classes to be...roughly 3-5% ahead of the rest. that being that all other ducks are in line...utility needs to be equal across the board. functional utility that is. if everything else equals out, a pure DPS class that is PLAYED WELL should top hybrids by 5% max. in a progression guild where everyone else is putting in 100%, that should be enough reason to bring a pure DPS AC in itself. in the other 98% of the game, it simply will be a wash. bring the player, not the class.

 

On the general topic (not your comments specifically Pro) I honestly do not expect many Mara's or Snipers (since the indicated both) to want the change, and I expect most of you to find some odd logic to disagree. the arguments IMO are simply invalid....everyone knows the usefulness of both classes + their DPS that is far too high is resulting in raids with a predominance of just those two classes (Bio even knows AND admits this) so the nerf is coming, no matter how people want to spin their logic and class comparisons.

 

EDIT: Upon reading your comments Verf, i agree with your direction. adjust talents so there's a larger tradeoff for defensive skills. I think thats a good direction to take the conversation.

 

 

 

Actually maybe my comparison makes people think I am of those who think marauders and snipers are "fine" as they are.

 

No they are not.

 

Altough for marauder, I'd say its damage as well as the sheer utility of the class's fury team buffs, and the sniper raid-wide damage reduction.

 

 

Mostly what irks me is people coming here, like the merc or how the sorc questions where asked (the answers were still stupid, but if question had been better formulated to leave mara/sniper out of it, we might have gotten a different answer there rather than the devs tunnel visionning on that bit)

 

Merc and jug, for exemple have class with some great defensives cooldown, and still whine they suck compared to the currently OP marauder, when in fact they don't even suck that much compared to it. They devalue their own cooldowns fishing for a buff that is totally unwarranted, once you consider where mara's cooldown should probably be around of.

 

UR back to 50% for all is a must, the power of the cooldown fully warrant its cost. Rather than make it a "forced to be used over 30%" or take health at the end, I'd rather see it also reduce healing by 99% while its active however, making it REALLY a last breath cooldown in pvp, and not something you pop a medpack over and keep going.

 

So you get down to 4%, pop that, and earn 2 attacks that you'd have died before otherwise. But all healing, including medpack gets reduced equally.

 

Its an idea at least.

Edited October 13, 2013 by verfallen

[olcraft]

You conveniently kept out something about cloak of pain rebuke : slap a cc on the mara when things pop, and its going to be 20% for 6 seconds (10 sec talented; that I agree needs to be removed) Thing has to refresh, and dot dont count anymore.

 

Heavy armor vs medium basic difference is roughly 23% vs 27% with "at level" non end-game armoring. With the 4% permanent damage reduction, + enraged defense 15% you do have a more powerful but shorter defensive cooldown (19% against internal in that interval, 4% at all time 15% from enraged defense and its self-heals)

 

So in the end its very situationnal. Cloak of pain will do better if something keeps refreshing it, lets say a big brawl with lots of aoe, or someone not paying attention to the marauder's buff bar while fighting it. Enraged defense will do better against spike damage once its properly fixed by removing the rage cost on it. There is a way to neutralize cloak of pain by using its refresh mechanic against it, and it doesnt self-heal you.

 

 

You can nag at bit and details all you want, jugs are not in a bad place right now, and comparing different damage scenarios will yield different results. In a way, saber reflect is MUCH better than UR if I suppose a duel with a sniper rather than a brawl. Thats one situation of many.

 

Btw before posting I figured I'd go check your numbers, and it so happens my jug/mara are currently similarly geared.

 

Rage marauders currently pretty much equal vengence jug when their cloak of pain is up as far as DR goes, safe for a slight advantage against elemental/internal, big with no self heals. Both go up to 48% DR against kinetic/energy and 29% vs 37% for internal/elemental damage.

 

So nerf the spec, remove the UR life cost reduction, cloak of pain 10 sec duration before refresh (that makes it rather hard to avoid refreshing) and the 2% DR that comes with UR cd reduction.

 

Alternatively I'd say to join up blurred speed to close quarters in annihilation 4th tier, slap hungering in the 3rd, and put the 30% AoE reduction where hungering was. That way carnage player can easily go grab it with a 7/36/3 spec, but rage will have to sacrifice either Narrowed hatred or defensive forms to go get it, which will bring the total damage reduction loss to 4%, its Cloak of pain to 44%, or will cost dps to keep the more tanky feel.

 

ya that might not be a bad idea. But the ultimate decision is gonna be made by Bioware. i hope they don't overnerf marauders.

[MSpectre]

So many ways to go about class balancing.

 

PVP: Make a tree solely for pvp, get pvp out of the pve formula.

 

PVE: Give every AC a team buff(i.e. BT, Sniper shield)

OR

Give a mixture of any 2 specific classes a buff for being grouped.(i.e. Mara+Sage in group bracket=boost 'x' to both)

 

Ranged should not be putting out higher numbers than melee with the exception of sniper.

Mara should not compare defensively to dps PT/JUG at all, they should be squishy/ier.

Edited October 13, 2013 by MSpectre